I was more disappointed in the defense than the offense because my expectations were much higher for the defense. MM is in the second year of installing the defense with many holdovers from last year whereas Kubiak is a new coach installing a new offensive scheme with a new QB. Therefore I expected a dominant defense and hesitant offense, but only got one of those.
I acknowledge the defense kept the score low, but that was largely the result of a couple of key interceptions and two missed FGs. The time of possession disparity was not just the fault of a sputtering offense, but also from the defense’s inability to get three and out series. Blaming it all on the offense is like only blaming Russ for the SB loss after the defense had squandered a 10 point lead the offense had given it. It’s a team game where sometimes a great performance from one unit can hide poor play from the other, but it often takes good performances from both to get a win.
Having said that, I still saw reasons for hope from both units and remember how badly SF beat the Hawks in the first game last year. This was definitely better than that one and there is plenty of time for improved play and outcomes.
I'm thinking of all the defense to pick on, Woolen was identified as the weak link, getting targeted all day. He strikes me as a guy who will find new ways to see THAT never happens again.
I honestly thought that on the 45 yard reception that Woolen was going to intercept the ball. I was sitting high above the south end zone and it looked like he had better positioning until he inexplicably slowed down. The TD play was a 50/50 and the other guy just wanted it more, similar to Golden Tate against GB.
Woolen wasn’t totally out of position either time, but just didn’t finish. He clearly has ability so I’m not too discouraged, but I wish he showed Spoon’s attitude!
Worst fears realize. A defensive coach trying to create an offensive powerhouse if imitation is the most sincerest form of flattery so be it. Sean McVay runs the offense. He gets the best defensive coordinator he can find and forgets about it.. I have seen this type of offense
before. And this tight to the vest great QBR ratings don’t make a mistake not for me..
The NFL is made up of just too many good to great offensive teams. Who’s the mission is to score points. The Seahawks have what books to be a very good defense, but without an offense, you just wear your defense out as they try to be invincible, which is of course impossible. It’s only one game so there is that.. we won’t have another look at it after Pittsburgh, but to my way of thinking you have to be fortunate to win without scoring some points
Nonetheless, it is downright ominous that Kupp was throttled by an inexperienced secondary. The game plan likely assumed that he would be able to carve them up.
No, I understood your point. Plenty of time and TO’s, the 9ers could have scored and still won the game.
I meant, let the 9ers try to win, given those circumstances. I’ll take my chances with that. (They’ll probably pick on Woolen and we lose, but still I’ll take my chances.) At least I have a chance to win.
If the truth be known I was so pissed after that loss I couldn’t focus on the entire article. I only read the title and maybe two paragraphs. Maybe I’d feel better if I read the whole thing but I still can’t. Maybe later this week.
Why I really thought the Seahawks would draft a WR earlier than they did. And who knows, maybe Horton will be one of the top guys in the class, but right now the room does look very limited. Even so, I think the decision to trade DK was correct because if WR is a team's weakness, they have a lot of opportunities to correct it throughout the year.
I'm still trying to figure out (from someone who knows, anyone?) whether Horton was simply never open or Darnold was simply focused on JSN as this year's answer to Jefferson. Same with the TEs. Were they open, did we choose not to run those plays? That Darnold wasn't under center as much as anticipated suggests maybe he had a case of the yips or something? Only that seems wrong, too...
I'm still surprised that he survived the end of last season. He was held out of the starting lineup in Week 16. He has always drawn too many penalties, he's always been a soft tackler, he's always kind of been that "we need a play" target for opposing teams. Add 2 more penalties to his career resume and we're not even in Week 2 yet. Woolen would need 5+ interceptions per year to make up for his negative plays, but he only has 5 interceptions total in his last 38 games.
I can understand patience after 2 seasons. I think the end of his 3rd season was enough to realize he's still kind of playing like a day 3 draft pick.
Only an INT will move the focus on him as the Weak Link. It actually says much when a kid with his talents/size becomes the target. Next week, he needs to establish this early.
I get that everyone is upset. This is a new offense. It’s needs to have a bit of time. darnold was rattled. No doubt. It was his old team and first game as a Seahawk.
This team has to run. They need long time eating drives. Walker has to be better than 2 yards a carry. He was doing what he likes to do bounce outside. He has to play the system. Use the tools a FB. 2 TEs. Then Throw over the top.
Walker looked intent on showing he can hit the designed routes, rather than jump elsewhere. That was the big criticism of him last year. If we can open holes, we will see TDs.
Maybe they have to make him #2 for a bit. Lynch said in interview awhile ago that he used to fry and bounce outside too until cable set him down and had a hard talk with him
“Tom Cable and Marshawn Lynch reportedly “made a deal”—where Cable said:
“You have to do it the way I tell you to do it. I ask you to do it. And he’s done it.”
“Once you get in and through the line of scrimmage, then do your thing.”
“But you’ve got to do it this way from A to B. And he bought in from A to B. And after that, what you do from C on is you.”
Until Sam has put away his ghosts, Kubiak will adjust all he can to see he doesn't fall back into bad habits. Nervous deep balls tend to get intercepted, so we went with the quick tosses. I saw little attempt to disguise hand-offs, but need to re-watch the game. Next week will be ideal to deal with this issue.
I just feel that if Darnold had anyone to throw the ball to besides JSN, the running game would have been better. I know that I’m hammering on this, but the WR group reminds me of your original point about Lucas’ knee: Are they a problem or an issue? To me, this is an issue that will dog the team week in and week out. Hopefully, I’m wrong.
They had some really weird plays. they really miss the speed on the outside when they do have to pass. I think we will see a completely different team next Sunday
I think this a matter of talent constraining the game plan. Darnold was decent at taking advantage of opportunities to go downfield—there simply weren’t that many of them.
When watching the game I thought it was a toss up whether or not to go for it on 4th down. And the 4th down calculator that I looked at https://rbsdm.com/stats/fourth_weekly/ confirmed that it was better historically to go for the FG. If he wanted to go for it, I would've been happy with that too.
The first possession to kick on 4th and 5 made no sense. And really should be looked at critically. And also in that same kind of vein is the overall training wheels that appeared to be on the offense. I am with trying to build a culture and identity around running the football ... but it looked like we were calling plays as if JJ McCarthy was our QB and not Sam Darnold. A couple of the times he let it rip, he made some great throws. The throw to JSN in the 4th was exquisite. But he also made some critical errors. I have no idea what happened on the first 3rd and 5 when he held onto the ball. The last play of the game I am not sure how much you can fault him. Do other QBs have better pocket presence? Maybe ... tough to say.
I think if we want to play with training wheels on the QB we need to get ready to play a ton of 50/50 close games. May be that is what MM wants because he believes in the defense. But the D has given up late leads (Vikings last year) and got throttled by GB. I think the D is fine but we shouldn't act like they are the steel curtain just yet.
Overall, this game is what I expected. Offense will struggle. We have 1 receiver. We have a QB that is fine but not upper level. And they have an o line that may be ok. My main goal for the year is to see the line get better and see if this QB is a guy to extend or not.
One of the questions going into the year that may fall on the good side for us is JSN. He did make the biggest mistake of the game with the fumble, but wow, was he impressive. He is a plus plus player. But SD cannot lock in only on him. Better defenses will eat SD alive if he does that.
It stinks to lose a game to division opponent. But I have always had this team as an 8-9 win team and that is exactly what they looked like. I am prepared to see alot of close, 50/50 type games this year. Mainly, just want to see the line continue to improve (which I thought they were about as expected, decent/pretty good and far from horrible).
Maybe an odd, silly thing to say, but I think we missed Bobo. Bobo doesn't drop that third down pass Kupp whiffed on. Bobo can do what Kupp is meant to. Maybe. But it's early days.
In my mind, Bono is like one of the linebackers Dave Wyman sticks up for (e.g., Barkevious Mingo) because they are very good technicians who understand how the position is played. But they aren’t fast or are not notably athletic or don’t have good instincts—you get the picture.
So, I like Bobo and I think he can contribute—as a #4 receiver.
I am always hopeful for more... But realistically? WR4 catching a couple TDs a year, run blocking, and playing good special teams is a pretty darn good outcome for Bobo.
“... but it looked like we were calling plays as if JJ McCarthy was our QB and not Sam Darnold. A couple of the times he let it rip, he made some great throws.”
I think you are onto something there. I thought SD looked good when he was throwing the football, but it seemed like they were avoiding letting him do it.
I thought SD looked sharp. He ripped some of those throws in.
It stinks to lose but I don’t see this as a horrible start. We are still trying to find the balance between run and pass. Think game 1 can be built off of
I don’t know much (I.e., nothing) about the analytics of the call. What I saw was the lopsided TOP and feared that the Hawks could only go to the defensive well so often. While I in no way thought that getting one yard was a slam dunk, it just seemed to me that they had to make every effort to keep possession of the ball. I still feel that way.
I consider you to be pretty darn sharp when it comes to football.
I like where your head is at.
And as Joe pointed out in another post, I like analytics as a guide but not an absolute. So if you are on the sidelines saying let’s go for it - then that makes sense to me.
I just didn’t feel strongly watching it live (but was at a friends place and not 100% locked in).
I am just really surprised by the fans reaction. Football has come a long way on 4th down (but then again I’m surprised no one is talking about the first drive punt)
Yeah, I am not bothered by JSN's fumble. I would have been bothered if it was DK Metcalf because DK Metcalf had regular lapses in concentration. I don't think JSN has a fumbling problem though. He's potentially going to have a historic Seahawks season.
I agree, I also have no concerns with JSN. Actually the exact opposite. I was wondering how he would look without DK: after the GB joint practice reports and now week 1: the answer is emphatically very very good.
Long season, long ways to go. I think there were some positives and JSN being a big one.
I'm not sure what you mean. The headline is referring to the last offensive play of the game, not the field goal attempt on fourth down, if that is confusing.
Yeah, the sample size is much too small. If the Seahawks had won 30-17, I would be working equally hard to pump the brakes. Like starting 3-0 last season but some of not really getting our hopes up.
I'm consistently challenged by so-called-reliance on analytics dictating when an offense should or should not go for it. As a very engaged spectator, I find myself persuaded by my "gut feeling" more than how other decisions in similar circumstances have worked out. And, I'm often extremely discouraged by a bad outcome, even if the decision was objectively sound, or at least somewhat defensible. The decision to throw the ball at the goal line during the infamous super bowl loss is one such example. If that play had succeeded, I believe many would have lauded Pete for the way that it utilized deception to capitalize upon a scheme or tendency mismatch and for how it trusted your star quarterback to make a critical play. As my friend sagely pointed out to me once: fans only love trick plays, deception, and improvisation when the result is positive. It's the outcome was crap, then it clearly was an unsound decision. If Milroe had gotten 20+ yards on that stupid draw play, people would have cheered and lauded the clever use of his unique talent.
The more I reflect upon going for it on fourth and short, I genuinely believe that I consider risk versus reward, but that my inchoate sense of the likelihood of a positive outcome is affected by far more than just "semi-objective" probability, aka "the numbers." What I mean to say is that my heart rules my head in those situations. I have a feeling whom I trust and I know that I want the best outcome. When I see the outcome, only then do I know whether the decision was good. In other words, I have the benefit of the outcome before having to share an opinion about the decision.
Whether you call it momentum or just a feeling that things will turn out well, I believe even intelligent decision-makers are influenced by considerations beyond the relevant probabilities of the choice.
Mike McDonald and Klint Kubiak have far more relevant more information than we as fans. Anyone who has played football knows that, on any play, one or more of your 11 players on the field may be somewhat compromised by pain, fatigue, a temporary lack of confidence we call "being rattled," or any number of other issues. A coach's playcalling decision might be influenced, for example, by who has the hot hand or by a perceived need to minimize the risk that a struggling player will be exposed. It might also be influenced by who that coach trusts in that moment, and be based upon their intuition and all the subtle variances we observe in human behavior that cause us to trust or not trust someone in that moment.
A lot of those data points are invisible to us as fans. And I have no doubt that such information factors into the calculus that coaches utilize when making critical decisions.
To go for it or not go for it on fourth and short is a decision that can be defended, no matter what the outcome, based on information exclusively available to the coaches. Even the most seemingly-ideal situation can be unfavorable if your key players are somehow compromised and their ability to effectively execute the play.
I suspect that good coaches are regularly faced with a challenging conundrum: should they share that information to defend against criticism from fans, their customers, where revealing that inside information might compromise the team's competitive edge in future games? It seems an easy, if unfair, choice for a disciplined, forward-thinking coach...
So, we play Monday Morning Quartrback and perform out postmortem examination wearing a blindfold, because we cannot really ever fully comprehend what drove a lot of the decisions we're keen to dissect.
How many great coaches have been thrown under a bus while helplessly unable, or stoically unwilling, to divulge information that might alter the perception of their choices?
I'm sorry for this stream of consciousness and any typos, because I did this on my phone and struggle with that process. I also selfishly used this forum to expound upon a subject that i've been interested in, and pondered theoretically, for some time.
"I'm consistently challenged by so-called-reliance on analytics dictating when an offense should or should not go for it"
Just watched MM's Monday morning interview on Seattle Sports and he said that they actually looked at the numbers before the play and said it was a "go" situation by their analytics, but decided that with game situation and opponent, etc., that it was not the right time to go for it. We can disagree with that decision, but I do respect that he's not a robot. Maybe he made the wrong decision, but I'd rather a human make that call given the context than just doing what a sheet says.
Tell Greg Olsen he's no longer allowed to do Seattle games. Find a replacement for Riq, I'm over watching him. KK, please keep trying things till something works, cause it's not there yet. Otherwise it's a ton of little things that are mostly able to be corrected by next week. Biggest challenge is dialing in the run game, let's focus on that and just that...Play calling and execution in the run game need to be primary improvements before next week. If those improve and we run the ball more effectively we can pass the ball out of play actin...
Sounds like a game plan! I just want to add that Riq Woolen gets under Dk’s skin and triggers a 15 yard penalty to botch up one of their drives… or two!
This off season I wanted our two main problems filled. I wanted a new LG and a new corner. We'll see how this goes but I'm not holding my breath for Riq. I see a trade on the horizon.
I don’t think we’d get as much for him if we trade him. This is an expiring contract and he needs to play better to get anything but a day 3 pick. I think they hope he will begin to play more consistently. If he does, we can get a 3rd round compensatory pick if we lose him, or maybe if he plays consistently, we can sign him for a reasonable extension. Right now, I expect he will test the market next year in free agency.
And another thing... 😆...Okada looks slow to see the play and react, Kupp needs to keep working it, Witherspoon has been good but not great, Walker looks like he maybe fits a different system because he's not super effective for some reason, I complain about overpaying for a kicker but then you see Moody. Overall, unfortunately we start with a divisional loss but it's not the end of the story. Let's just focus on running all over Pittsburgh...the rest will fall into place.
Kind of banging the same drum all year: If you don't sign, draft, or trade for a starting player, you're probably not going to have a starting player. Luckily for the LG spot, the Seahawks addressed one of their holes. Maybe Jalen Sundell will be a lucky break at center. But no surprise that last year's RGs are just as bad as this year's RGs.
If I go back to what I though might happen with the offense, prior to watching the preseason, yesterday would have been about what I thought it would look like in game 1. Preseason messes with your head. Growing pains were always prescribed I suppose.
The lads will get back after it this week, and hopefully we see progression against the Steelers. I hate the 49'ers, but an Aaron Rodgers led Steelers team.......I dunno, I think I might dislike them even more.
This is what I was attempting to say in my post. Preseason narratives are more than likely going to be misleading. The NFL is so crazy because it is like a broken record. Every year the same things happen.
Colts were my big team going into week 1. Can't believe how down on Danny Dimes people are. I see him and Sam Darnold as the same QBs. Danny Dimes is this year's Sam Darnold (not saying he will win 14 games, just saying I think he will outperform expectations).
"Preseason messes with your head." Totally agree. I don't even like preseason and even I was thinking to myself "maybe this run game will look really good in week one".
I always do better when I go into a season, or even just a game, curious. Just curious about what will happen. When I have my expectations and/or hopes up, that's when I get bummed out about outcomes. We're still getting to know this team I suppose, so lofty expectations are perhaps premature. I will say though, I do like the makeup of the team. I don't think there is any question they will compete with anybody. If you want to throw hands, this team will throw hands. Love the fight in them.
One thing Kubiak's game plan is not getting credit for amidst the criticisms is Darnold took zero sacks until the last play, and wasn't really pressured. And it seemed like the reason was the run game and the quick passing. It will be interesting to see how they adjust for the next meeting against the niners.
And yet people saying AB sucked and we wasted money on Abe. No sacks and frankly that Bosa play wasn’t a sack, but that’s what he gets credit for for the fumble recovery.
Totally. I posted similar. Paraphrased a couple posts on our discussion yesterday. Why I also posted and asked do Bengals get rid of Burrow because he only had 114 yards passing? Keep writing to “teach” people one play isn’t indicative.
That was my impression too. I don’t get all the criticism of the O-line. Run blocking needs to improve, but we didn’t really run a lot of outside zone. Perhaps KK felt the 49ers were overplaying the outside run.
I thought the early Milroe play was going to be a setup for something down the line and I'm guessing they just never got to the right situation in their opinions. MM said that Milroe had the option to pass on that play and decided to run. Maybe he thought that Milroe should have passed.
I was more disappointed in the defense than the offense because my expectations were much higher for the defense. MM is in the second year of installing the defense with many holdovers from last year whereas Kubiak is a new coach installing a new offensive scheme with a new QB. Therefore I expected a dominant defense and hesitant offense, but only got one of those.
I acknowledge the defense kept the score low, but that was largely the result of a couple of key interceptions and two missed FGs. The time of possession disparity was not just the fault of a sputtering offense, but also from the defense’s inability to get three and out series. Blaming it all on the offense is like only blaming Russ for the SB loss after the defense had squandered a 10 point lead the offense had given it. It’s a team game where sometimes a great performance from one unit can hide poor play from the other, but it often takes good performances from both to get a win.
Having said that, I still saw reasons for hope from both units and remember how badly SF beat the Hawks in the first game last year. This was definitely better than that one and there is plenty of time for improved play and outcomes.
I'm thinking of all the defense to pick on, Woolen was identified as the weak link, getting targeted all day. He strikes me as a guy who will find new ways to see THAT never happens again.
I honestly thought that on the 45 yard reception that Woolen was going to intercept the ball. I was sitting high above the south end zone and it looked like he had better positioning until he inexplicably slowed down. The TD play was a 50/50 and the other guy just wanted it more, similar to Golden Tate against GB.
Woolen wasn’t totally out of position either time, but just didn’t finish. He clearly has ability so I’m not too discouraged, but I wish he showed Spoon’s attitude!
Worst fears realize. A defensive coach trying to create an offensive powerhouse if imitation is the most sincerest form of flattery so be it. Sean McVay runs the offense. He gets the best defensive coordinator he can find and forgets about it.. I have seen this type of offense
before. And this tight to the vest great QBR ratings don’t make a mistake not for me..
The NFL is made up of just too many good to great offensive teams. Who’s the mission is to score points. The Seahawks have what books to be a very good defense, but without an offense, you just wear your defense out as they try to be invincible, which is of course impossible. It’s only one game so there is that.. we won’t have another look at it after Pittsburgh, but to my way of thinking you have to be fortunate to win without scoring some points
“[Kupp] has always been a hot-and-cold receiver.”
Nonetheless, it is downright ominous that Kupp was throttled by an inexperienced secondary. The game plan likely assumed that he would be able to carve them up.
No, I understood your point. Plenty of time and TO’s, the 9ers could have scored and still won the game.
I meant, let the 9ers try to win, given those circumstances. I’ll take my chances with that. (They’ll probably pick on Woolen and we lose, but still I’ll take my chances.) At least I have a chance to win.
If the truth be known I was so pissed after that loss I couldn’t focus on the entire article. I only read the title and maybe two paragraphs. Maybe I’d feel better if I read the whole thing but I still can’t. Maybe later this week.
Barry
Haha, no problem I get it!
I tried to read the wide receiver room but no one was there.
Why I really thought the Seahawks would draft a WR earlier than they did. And who knows, maybe Horton will be one of the top guys in the class, but right now the room does look very limited. Even so, I think the decision to trade DK was correct because if WR is a team's weakness, they have a lot of opportunities to correct it throughout the year.
I'm still trying to figure out (from someone who knows, anyone?) whether Horton was simply never open or Darnold was simply focused on JSN as this year's answer to Jefferson. Same with the TEs. Were they open, did we choose not to run those plays? That Darnold wasn't under center as much as anticipated suggests maybe he had a case of the yips or something? Only that seems wrong, too...
So after thinking about it some more, I’m approaching the end of my rope on Woolen. 1 great play and 2 horrendous. That ratio needs to flip. Now.
I'm still surprised that he survived the end of last season. He was held out of the starting lineup in Week 16. He has always drawn too many penalties, he's always been a soft tackler, he's always kind of been that "we need a play" target for opposing teams. Add 2 more penalties to his career resume and we're not even in Week 2 yet. Woolen would need 5+ interceptions per year to make up for his negative plays, but he only has 5 interceptions total in his last 38 games.
I can understand patience after 2 seasons. I think the end of his 3rd season was enough to realize he's still kind of playing like a day 3 draft pick.
I think they'll move him out during the season, like the linebackers last year.
If he's lost the locker room, then a new team will be in his near future.
True, it could be a similar situation to that. I definitely think teams would be happy to trade for him.
Only an INT will move the focus on him as the Weak Link. It actually says much when a kid with his talents/size becomes the target. Next week, he needs to establish this early.
At the end of the game I was wondering, is Shaq Griffen really any worse?
I get that everyone is upset. This is a new offense. It’s needs to have a bit of time. darnold was rattled. No doubt. It was his old team and first game as a Seahawk.
This team has to run. They need long time eating drives. Walker has to be better than 2 yards a carry. He was doing what he likes to do bounce outside. He has to play the system. Use the tools a FB. 2 TEs. Then Throw over the top.
Walker looked intent on showing he can hit the designed routes, rather than jump elsewhere. That was the big criticism of him last year. If we can open holes, we will see TDs.
Maybe they have to make him #2 for a bit. Lynch said in interview awhile ago that he used to fry and bounce outside too until cable set him down and had a hard talk with him
“Tom Cable and Marshawn Lynch reportedly “made a deal”—where Cable said:
“You have to do it the way I tell you to do it. I ask you to do it. And he’s done it.”
“Once you get in and through the line of scrimmage, then do your thing.”
“But you’ve got to do it this way from A to B. And he bought in from A to B. And after that, what you do from C on is you.”
And I think Darnold had a good game. I think if the running game was there, he would have had a great game.
Until Sam has put away his ghosts, Kubiak will adjust all he can to see he doesn't fall back into bad habits. Nervous deep balls tend to get intercepted, so we went with the quick tosses. I saw little attempt to disguise hand-offs, but need to re-watch the game. Next week will be ideal to deal with this issue.
I just feel that if Darnold had anyone to throw the ball to besides JSN, the running game would have been better. I know that I’m hammering on this, but the WR group reminds me of your original point about Lucas’ knee: Are they a problem or an issue? To me, this is an issue that will dog the team week in and week out. Hopefully, I’m wrong.
Hopefully.
They had some really weird plays. they really miss the speed on the outside when they do have to pass. I think we will see a completely different team next Sunday
I echo Charlie. Problem is the WRs will be the same. Miami is about to blow up its team—hopefully Schneider is inquiring about Jaylen Waddle.
I think it’s a smart move. Speed forces you to have a safety high as well as the cornerback. That in turn makes it easier to run or throw to a back.
I don’t understand the play calling and the horizontal passing. They have to push the ball.
I think this a matter of talent constraining the game plan. Darnold was decent at taking advantage of opportunities to go downfield—there simply weren’t that many of them.
When watching the game I thought it was a toss up whether or not to go for it on 4th down. And the 4th down calculator that I looked at https://rbsdm.com/stats/fourth_weekly/ confirmed that it was better historically to go for the FG. If he wanted to go for it, I would've been happy with that too.
The first possession to kick on 4th and 5 made no sense. And really should be looked at critically. And also in that same kind of vein is the overall training wheels that appeared to be on the offense. I am with trying to build a culture and identity around running the football ... but it looked like we were calling plays as if JJ McCarthy was our QB and not Sam Darnold. A couple of the times he let it rip, he made some great throws. The throw to JSN in the 4th was exquisite. But he also made some critical errors. I have no idea what happened on the first 3rd and 5 when he held onto the ball. The last play of the game I am not sure how much you can fault him. Do other QBs have better pocket presence? Maybe ... tough to say.
I think if we want to play with training wheels on the QB we need to get ready to play a ton of 50/50 close games. May be that is what MM wants because he believes in the defense. But the D has given up late leads (Vikings last year) and got throttled by GB. I think the D is fine but we shouldn't act like they are the steel curtain just yet.
Overall, this game is what I expected. Offense will struggle. We have 1 receiver. We have a QB that is fine but not upper level. And they have an o line that may be ok. My main goal for the year is to see the line get better and see if this QB is a guy to extend or not.
One of the questions going into the year that may fall on the good side for us is JSN. He did make the biggest mistake of the game with the fumble, but wow, was he impressive. He is a plus plus player. But SD cannot lock in only on him. Better defenses will eat SD alive if he does that.
It stinks to lose a game to division opponent. But I have always had this team as an 8-9 win team and that is exactly what they looked like. I am prepared to see alot of close, 50/50 type games this year. Mainly, just want to see the line continue to improve (which I thought they were about as expected, decent/pretty good and far from horrible).
Go Hawks.
Maybe an odd, silly thing to say, but I think we missed Bobo. Bobo doesn't drop that third down pass Kupp whiffed on. Bobo can do what Kupp is meant to. Maybe. But it's early days.
Mike Dugar has been pretty high on Bobo for awhile. Says he is one of the best route runners.
I thought SD looked sharp but I do think he needs to trust another receiver and not just JSN. Maybe Bobo will take a step forward?
In my mind, Bono is like one of the linebackers Dave Wyman sticks up for (e.g., Barkevious Mingo) because they are very good technicians who understand how the position is played. But they aren’t fast or are not notably athletic or don’t have good instincts—you get the picture.
So, I like Bobo and I think he can contribute—as a #4 receiver.
Yeah ... I think that is right on the money.
I am always hopeful for more... But realistically? WR4 catching a couple TDs a year, run blocking, and playing good special teams is a pretty darn good outcome for Bobo.
“... but it looked like we were calling plays as if JJ McCarthy was our QB and not Sam Darnold. A couple of the times he let it rip, he made some great throws.”
I think you are onto something there. I thought SD looked good when he was throwing the football, but it seemed like they were avoiding letting him do it.
I agree!
I thought SD looked sharp. He ripped some of those throws in.
It stinks to lose but I don’t see this as a horrible start. We are still trying to find the balance between run and pass. Think game 1 can be built off of
I don’t know much (I.e., nothing) about the analytics of the call. What I saw was the lopsided TOP and feared that the Hawks could only go to the defensive well so often. While I in no way thought that getting one yard was a slam dunk, it just seemed to me that they had to make every effort to keep possession of the ball. I still feel that way.
I consider you to be pretty darn sharp when it comes to football.
I like where your head is at.
And as Joe pointed out in another post, I like analytics as a guide but not an absolute. So if you are on the sidelines saying let’s go for it - then that makes sense to me.
I just didn’t feel strongly watching it live (but was at a friends place and not 100% locked in).
I am just really surprised by the fans reaction. Football has come a long way on 4th down (but then again I’m surprised no one is talking about the first drive punt)
Thanks! Sixty+ years of being wrong and buying into hype adds up to hard-won skepticism!
Yeah, I am not bothered by JSN's fumble. I would have been bothered if it was DK Metcalf because DK Metcalf had regular lapses in concentration. I don't think JSN has a fumbling problem though. He's potentially going to have a historic Seahawks season.
I agree, I also have no concerns with JSN. Actually the exact opposite. I was wondering how he would look without DK: after the GB joint practice reports and now week 1: the answer is emphatically very very good.
Long season, long ways to go. I think there were some positives and JSN being a big one.
Thank goodness Saubert makes kickoff tackle...our kick coverage is suspect.
Good point, I had forgotten.
"The Seahawks could have scored a TD and still…"
I would have liked to see them try. That's all I was asking for.
I'm not sure what you mean. The headline is referring to the last offensive play of the game, not the field goal attempt on fourth down, if that is confusing.
We will be better. I believe in this year's model. It takes a second to make a team.
Yeah, the sample size is much too small. If the Seahawks had won 30-17, I would be working equally hard to pump the brakes. Like starting 3-0 last season but some of not really getting our hopes up.
I'm consistently challenged by so-called-reliance on analytics dictating when an offense should or should not go for it. As a very engaged spectator, I find myself persuaded by my "gut feeling" more than how other decisions in similar circumstances have worked out. And, I'm often extremely discouraged by a bad outcome, even if the decision was objectively sound, or at least somewhat defensible. The decision to throw the ball at the goal line during the infamous super bowl loss is one such example. If that play had succeeded, I believe many would have lauded Pete for the way that it utilized deception to capitalize upon a scheme or tendency mismatch and for how it trusted your star quarterback to make a critical play. As my friend sagely pointed out to me once: fans only love trick plays, deception, and improvisation when the result is positive. It's the outcome was crap, then it clearly was an unsound decision. If Milroe had gotten 20+ yards on that stupid draw play, people would have cheered and lauded the clever use of his unique talent.
The more I reflect upon going for it on fourth and short, I genuinely believe that I consider risk versus reward, but that my inchoate sense of the likelihood of a positive outcome is affected by far more than just "semi-objective" probability, aka "the numbers." What I mean to say is that my heart rules my head in those situations. I have a feeling whom I trust and I know that I want the best outcome. When I see the outcome, only then do I know whether the decision was good. In other words, I have the benefit of the outcome before having to share an opinion about the decision.
Whether you call it momentum or just a feeling that things will turn out well, I believe even intelligent decision-makers are influenced by considerations beyond the relevant probabilities of the choice.
Mike McDonald and Klint Kubiak have far more relevant more information than we as fans. Anyone who has played football knows that, on any play, one or more of your 11 players on the field may be somewhat compromised by pain, fatigue, a temporary lack of confidence we call "being rattled," or any number of other issues. A coach's playcalling decision might be influenced, for example, by who has the hot hand or by a perceived need to minimize the risk that a struggling player will be exposed. It might also be influenced by who that coach trusts in that moment, and be based upon their intuition and all the subtle variances we observe in human behavior that cause us to trust or not trust someone in that moment.
A lot of those data points are invisible to us as fans. And I have no doubt that such information factors into the calculus that coaches utilize when making critical decisions.
To go for it or not go for it on fourth and short is a decision that can be defended, no matter what the outcome, based on information exclusively available to the coaches. Even the most seemingly-ideal situation can be unfavorable if your key players are somehow compromised and their ability to effectively execute the play.
I suspect that good coaches are regularly faced with a challenging conundrum: should they share that information to defend against criticism from fans, their customers, where revealing that inside information might compromise the team's competitive edge in future games? It seems an easy, if unfair, choice for a disciplined, forward-thinking coach...
So, we play Monday Morning Quartrback and perform out postmortem examination wearing a blindfold, because we cannot really ever fully comprehend what drove a lot of the decisions we're keen to dissect.
How many great coaches have been thrown under a bus while helplessly unable, or stoically unwilling, to divulge information that might alter the perception of their choices?
I'm sorry for this stream of consciousness and any typos, because I did this on my phone and struggle with that process. I also selfishly used this forum to expound upon a subject that i've been interested in, and pondered theoretically, for some time.
"I'm consistently challenged by so-called-reliance on analytics dictating when an offense should or should not go for it"
Just watched MM's Monday morning interview on Seattle Sports and he said that they actually looked at the numbers before the play and said it was a "go" situation by their analytics, but decided that with game situation and opponent, etc., that it was not the right time to go for it. We can disagree with that decision, but I do respect that he's not a robot. Maybe he made the wrong decision, but I'd rather a human make that call given the context than just doing what a sheet says.
Tell Greg Olsen he's no longer allowed to do Seattle games. Find a replacement for Riq, I'm over watching him. KK, please keep trying things till something works, cause it's not there yet. Otherwise it's a ton of little things that are mostly able to be corrected by next week. Biggest challenge is dialing in the run game, let's focus on that and just that...Play calling and execution in the run game need to be primary improvements before next week. If those improve and we run the ball more effectively we can pass the ball out of play actin...
Sounds like a game plan! I just want to add that Riq Woolen gets under Dk’s skin and triggers a 15 yard penalty to botch up one of their drives… or two!
This off season I wanted our two main problems filled. I wanted a new LG and a new corner. We'll see how this goes but I'm not holding my breath for Riq. I see a trade on the horizon.
I don’t think we’d get as much for him if we trade him. This is an expiring contract and he needs to play better to get anything but a day 3 pick. I think they hope he will begin to play more consistently. If he does, we can get a 3rd round compensatory pick if we lose him, or maybe if he plays consistently, we can sign him for a reasonable extension. Right now, I expect he will test the market next year in free agency.
And another thing... 😆...Okada looks slow to see the play and react, Kupp needs to keep working it, Witherspoon has been good but not great, Walker looks like he maybe fits a different system because he's not super effective for some reason, I complain about overpaying for a kicker but then you see Moody. Overall, unfortunately we start with a divisional loss but it's not the end of the story. Let's just focus on running all over Pittsburgh...the rest will fall into place.
Bradford could be replaced too now that I'm re-watching...oof.
Kind of banging the same drum all year: If you don't sign, draft, or trade for a starting player, you're probably not going to have a starting player. Luckily for the LG spot, the Seahawks addressed one of their holes. Maybe Jalen Sundell will be a lucky break at center. But no surprise that last year's RGs are just as bad as this year's RGs.
Olu at center bump jalen to RG? I dunno...
I saw a clip of our worst run plays. several run stuffs looked like they were on him getting beat and/or not sustaining blocks.
Then why run to his side? We have a better guy on the other side. Head-scratching
If I go back to what I though might happen with the offense, prior to watching the preseason, yesterday would have been about what I thought it would look like in game 1. Preseason messes with your head. Growing pains were always prescribed I suppose.
The lads will get back after it this week, and hopefully we see progression against the Steelers. I hate the 49'ers, but an Aaron Rodgers led Steelers team.......I dunno, I think I might dislike them even more.
This is what I was attempting to say in my post. Preseason narratives are more than likely going to be misleading. The NFL is so crazy because it is like a broken record. Every year the same things happen.
Colts were my big team going into week 1. Can't believe how down on Danny Dimes people are. I see him and Sam Darnold as the same QBs. Danny Dimes is this year's Sam Darnold (not saying he will win 14 games, just saying I think he will outperform expectations).
"Preseason messes with your head." Totally agree. I don't even like preseason and even I was thinking to myself "maybe this run game will look really good in week one".
I always do better when I go into a season, or even just a game, curious. Just curious about what will happen. When I have my expectations and/or hopes up, that's when I get bummed out about outcomes. We're still getting to know this team I suppose, so lofty expectations are perhaps premature. I will say though, I do like the makeup of the team. I don't think there is any question they will compete with anybody. If you want to throw hands, this team will throw hands. Love the fight in them.
One thing Kubiak's game plan is not getting credit for amidst the criticisms is Darnold took zero sacks until the last play, and wasn't really pressured. And it seemed like the reason was the run game and the quick passing. It will be interesting to see how they adjust for the next meeting against the niners.
100% fair, I didn't give the team any credit for that either. And the 49ers shouldn't b e a slouch opponent in that regard.
And yet people saying AB sucked and we wasted money on Abe. No sacks and frankly that Bosa play wasn’t a sack, but that’s what he gets credit for for the fumble recovery.
Can't worry myself too much with people who watched one play and said "that's it, the money on abe was wasted!"
Totally. I posted similar. Paraphrased a couple posts on our discussion yesterday. Why I also posted and asked do Bengals get rid of Burrow because he only had 114 yards passing? Keep writing to “teach” people one play isn’t indicative.
That was my impression too. I don’t get all the criticism of the O-line. Run blocking needs to improve, but we didn’t really run a lot of outside zone. Perhaps KK felt the 49ers were overplaying the outside run.
It would have been exciting if the coaches had saved the Jalen Milroe play to be able to use on the late 4th and 1.
If Milroe gains the same yard he gained on 2nd and 6 in the first quarter... potentially a big difference even if the Hawks still don't win the game.
I thought the early Milroe play was going to be a setup for something down the line and I'm guessing they just never got to the right situation in their opinions. MM said that Milroe had the option to pass on that play and decided to run. Maybe he thought that Milroe should have passed.