OK- Have watched the game now THREE times~! Took notes through two of them - To see if I saw something different. Stupid pass INT. - But other than that , mostly poor O-line play and a COMPLETE Poor O game Plan (3RD AND AFTER)!!! The Middle was open almost all game ,to pass to , But the HAWKS had nobody there???? Watch the game ---- Over and over nobody going into the pop middle right or left- WHY???? Beginning to understand the talk about the O- coach.
Throw one more thing in there - ASK any O-line guy - He'll tell you it truly is more than just throwin a guy in there- Good O-line play takes communication and feel and knowing what your next door buddy is going to do. That makes good o-lines! Seattle will get way better as the year goes on if they stay healthy!!!!!
I don't know if starting Lock will help but something has to change. 3rd down conversions and red zone efficiency (arguably the most important offensive statistics) are our biggest weaknesses and we would go from average to great if we could fix them. Our defense was lights out against the Bengals (will anyone else hold Burrow to under 200 yds passing?) and we left so many points off the board. Geno does alright until crucial moments and then he takes bad sacks and/or makes poor decisions. I can see why Seattle gave him the contract they did and I'm glad they did so they aren't saddled with an Albert Pujols sized albatross.
Geno is a game manager. Always has been. I agree that he has been good at times and meh at times. This balances out to good, but not good enough. I also agree with the folks here who have pointed out that Geno is good in the locker room, and is a cheap option for now. I don't expect anybody to play perfectly, or even play excellently every game, but I expect our QB to work hard with good coaching to somehow find a way to win.
Geno had a substandard game. Waldron has done a great job of calling heavy sets and using TEs to help the weak OL we have filling in, but not this game. If I had to give percentages of fault for this loss, I would give coaching at least 65%, Geno 25%, and the rest to DK and penalties. I am just mystified at how we have heard about being run first, our OL is beat up, and we still call pass after effing pass inside the 10. Not just that, but shotgun no help protection pass formations.
Nobody here can tell me that if we ran the ball more and used more TE protect, screens, and other pass rush counter plays, that Geno wouldn't be better, to some degree. Every QB makes better decisons with more time. How about we gameplan to magnify our strengths vs the opponent's weaknesses, and reinforce and hide our own weaknesses as much as possible? I'm not an NFL coach, but it is as plain as the nise on Taylor Swift's face that we are calling plays that have very little margin of error, and doing it in ways that increase our risk of error. We can't keep expecting our mediocre QB is perform at his best while doing this.
If we switch to any QB available, Lock or whomever else in the draft, and still call these bullshit games against teams that just pray we keep throwing it while leaving the worst OLinemen we have on islands, then it will look just as bad.
Absolutely right! Only two rushes for Charbonett was almost criminal. Inside the 10 I want a steady diet of Charbs and Walker.
If you want to be an old school, pound the ball and play tough defense then you have to embrace that and not abandon it at the goal line.
I think the thing that broke the LOB Hawks wasn’t that they lost to the Patriots. It’s that they lost on a weak pass to a young, light WR rather than giving it to Marshawn. If the Patriots stop him twice to win then hats off to them!
Geno wasn’t great, but he didn’t lose this game alone. He played well enough to win this game, but the coaches negated their strengths at key moments.
On the drive that resulted in Geno’s goal line interception the Hawks had 1st and goal at about the 5 yard line. First play- Walker for 2 yards, second play pass play with Walker committing blocking foul, 3rd play- interception at goal line. Other drives had similar endings.
My complaint isn’t with Geno! The Hawks spent high draft pick on quality RBs, but in an ideal place to pound the ball they used Walker as a blocker, his weakest skill, instead of a runner. 3 running plays either gets them a TD or FG and no interception for Geno. Get that FG and any of the other red zone trips only require a FG for the win.
If Pete really was the run first guy that people paint him as I think the Hawks win this game. He has a slightly better than average QB, but Pete/Waldron are asking him to carry the team rather than manage it.
The whole NFL is enamored with TDs over FGs, of course we prefer more points, but 3 points are better than 0 points! The Hawks were at the Cincy 8 or better three times and got zero points when 3 easily made FGs win this one. The goal isn’t to outscore the opponent by 25 points, but by at least 1.
To use a baseball analogy it’s HR ball vs. small ball. Walks and singles that score one run in 6 or 7 innings will beat one massive grand slam by the other team, but the grand slam ends up on Sportscenter.
Wow i was not expecting that post. It's difficult, because Geno is someone that is easy to root for...he always is team first, and unlike the #3 pressers, tells it like it is. I think chasing "the next Mahomes" can be a very slippery slope...but in this NFL I think you need a qb who is mobile, and Geno, while he can slide or avoid pressure at times he is essentially an old school, stand up qb. If Geno is our QB we need to have a dominant defense, and that is not something we have. I do not see Pete moving on from Geno until a truly better option is secured. Drew Lock is not that, or at least is not clearly that yet.
Just rewatched the offense. Geno made some bad plays, no doubt about it. The interception to JSN, he missed some throws (DK in the first half???), and took some sacks that he shouldn't have. He also made some incredible plays and throws. So a little bit of a mixed bag.
I agree with some of the playcalling sentiment on here. One of the things the Bengals did well was disguise the coverage between man and zone. I am not sure why we don't have more presnap motion to try and give a tell to what coverage they are in. We should be running presnap motion and play-action on most plays.
I see we are back to picking on good ole minimum salary Jake Curhan again. And once again it doesn't make that much sense. To my eye, Phil Haynes was the main cuplrit throughout the game. I also thought that Bradford stuggled. Curhan played through an ankle injury and did an admirable job. We all knew when the line went down that this was going to be a struggle. Well, it finally is after winning three straight games and it is surprising? Some of those sacks are also on Geno. He needs to step up in the pocket but of course that is easy to say from the couch and not when you are getting hit all game from inside pressure.
DK needs to be better. Giving up an interception and another 15 yard penalty is not what you want out of your highest paid guy.
Overall, I think this was a team loss on the offense. Most everyone had their good and bad moments. And if it weren't for Hedrickson making a heck of a play on a goal line run where Walker scores easily, this may not even be a conversation this morning.
is it just me, or did we not see the 12 personnel grouping at all? I thought that might be a solution to the pass rush protection issues but it didn't seem to show up at all.
Exactly. If you have a backup tackle you are paying the minimum for AND he gets a sprained ankle ... as a signal caller and/or QB ... Shouldn't we be sticking a TE over their for some help?
When I rewatched the film, I actually thought Curhan played better than I originally thought. Not to mention, he is blocking next to a rookie (Bradford) who struggled.
Really felt the play calling yesterday was more a fault as the QB play was. Seems like they kept looking to punish with play calls deep that never materialized. We forgot how strong our TE play is across the middle. Charby only had two carries and his skill set seemed a better match-up against the defense. That said, I do believe we are seeing peak Geno, but is that necessarily a problem? Really have to cleave apart is he again faltering this season because defenses get tape and stymie him or is the play calling an issue. I like what Luis says about trying something different with Lock in the red zone- his speed over Geno is absolutely apparent and maybe that starts to get things moving in the RZ finally. OL play was not as good as weeks past either- rush lanes were poor, Curhan reverted to being a turn-stile once again, not a good mesh with deep pass calls for how they were playing and no adjustment apparent either. To me is feels like different play calling would have won this game instead of wishing for better QB play.
Also feels like we all forgot that Geno was the guy- for now. He was good enough, for now, until we could finally figure out the long term solution. Feels very much like we are on that plan. There is no viable option to replace Geno in the league currently short of a Denver-esque massive rebuild and we've seen how that has gone. There is no viable options far as I can tell thru the end of this season to replace Geno. So until we can score another 5th round steal at QB we lie in the bed made. Free agency and trades are an option this off-season too. The pain of replacing Geno is likely ten fold than working to playing to ALL of the offenses' talent. The offensive scheme did not work this game. The real tell will be against Arizona- if its as poor, I'll be back with an entirely different slant to my takes.
ETA: Corbin Smith tweeted that Geno was hit 12 times in the 3 games prior. He was hit 13 times in 4Q of play yesterday- with "most coming within 2.5 seconds". Cut the man some slack ok.
I have an idea: call Lock “red zone specialist” and play him when we get close. Geno’s still the starter, but we would be using him where he excels (completing long-ish passes at a high rate between the 20s) and subbing him where he falters (red zone). Boom or bust like lock is terrible way to play offense, but it’s the right mindset for the red zone.
I knew this would be here waiting for me this morning. Look it, I can take any QB, throw out the good games, point at the bad games, or bad stretches in games, and say 'that's not good enough'. Somebody mentioned Purdy below, and he did not look good today. Mahomes has had decidedly 'meh' stretches this year. Hurts had a horrible game yesterday, and he's making top dollar. There are factors that drive QB play, and they affect all QB's not just Geno. Pressure, defensive scheme, play call from the offensive coordinator, run blocking, etc. When these things aren't going well QB play will suffer, and today it suffered. Geno had his screw-ups today as well, and he owned up to that, so I'm not absolving him of responsibility. I'm just saying, there are factors that drive successful (or not) QB play, and there are very few QB's who can transcend that consistently.
I don't know what Geno will become any more than anybody else does. Will he be good enough on his own to drag a team to a SB win? I don't think so. Is he good enough to get there with the right supporting cast, I hope so. Here's what I think I do know.
- Geno's partnership with Waldron is key. On pass plays, it looks like too often the play design is not shaking people free and Geno holds the ball looking for secondary and tertiary options. Is that the players or the play design? I think we have enough skill at WR and TE, so I'm laying a bunch of this on Waldron.
- QB and RB play will directly correlate to the play of the o-line, and it is not good enough right now in either the run or pass game. Too much pressure generally, and yesterday quick pressure up the middle which will kill any QB success probability.
- The defense was outstanding after that slow start. I'm very pumped up about that, because this isn't close to what they could be with some development of the younger pieces.......of which there are a number.
- DK needs to rethink who he is as a football player. Stop trying to intimidate with your presence, and start trying to intimidate with your skill and play. Pete has a rule.....'Protect the Team!' and DK is not doing that. Pete's most unsuccessful stretch as the Seahawks coach came when he stopped enforcing that rule, and allowed some of the personalities to transcend his basic tenants. DK should not get a pass. There are just too many examples of him putting himself above the Team. Pete has to stop 'addressing it' and have the 'or else' chat with him. On days like today, 15 yard penalties can be the difference between winning and losing.
that's a very reasonable and well reasoned take. Something in short supply these days lol. I hope Geno reaches his ceiling and can stay close enough to it that the Hawks. keep winning games. The Bengals were incredibly sticky in the back end during that game and the pass rush was dominant. That was the best secondary play I've seen since the LOB honestly (minus the bone crushing hits).
Agree Waldron sucks in the Red Zone. Looks like their Defenses always know what we are doing, so mix it up. Confuse everybody and let the QB sort it out in real time. Listen to your guys in the huddle. Go with it. Then there is the Lock question. Seems like the Team is asking this, too. Yesterday was the same sad performance as we saw in the NYG game. We won it due to our defense supplying the extra points needed. Looked to me like it was a worse performance, actually. That's how teams can air their grievances. There comes a point where the Team demands answers. Podium Geno saying he has to do better isn't cutting it. Taking "blame" isn't cutting it. Inserting Lock in the Red Zone will answer these building anxieties and address the fears that Geno will be cut out. Quite the reverse, in the long run. And it will confuse Defenses...
Regarding DK- I suspect part of his problem, ironically, is how gifted he is. He has always been the biggest and fastest player on the field so he hasn’t had to learn techniques to make up for deficiencies like Lockett who is small, but quick or Bobo who is big, but slow. In high school DK was massively more gifted than his peers, in college it was a noticeable advantage, in the NFL he’s just marginally more gifted. He needs to adjust to that reality and study his teammates as much as possible, which I think he has. His hands and route running have improved this year. Now he needs to accept that he won’t win every play, keep his cool, put the bad plays behind and get ready for the next.
I’ve done a quarter-by-quarter look at Geno’s 2023 games. It shows a QB who flashes at times and disappears for long stretches. Yesterday’s game reinforced that view. Should this continue, it’s not good enough.
Carroll will give Geno a long rope because that’s part of Pete’s makeup as a coach. Which is fine with me: Carroll has been successful doing it his way. But I’m with Joe: The end is nigh for a QB who makes bad decisions with the game on the line.
Caught up on the game this morning. Geno was just Geno, doing what Geno does, has done, and will keep doing. And if you want a 9-8/8-9 season and backing into a WildCard spot that's fine, he can do that, this team can do that.
But it's not what I want, and why I'll keep demanding more. Although to give some credit to Geno, I think this Shane Waldron offence is completely toothless and utterly hopeless. Against one of the worst Run defences in 2023 we mustered les than 90yds! Charbonnet got only 2 carries! He had more receiving yards than running. This was an ideal day to just grind the Bengals into submission but Geno/Waldron seemed intent on trying to punish them deep - which works when you have a lot of field to play with, so we start each drive well and slowly fall off as the field shrinks and we have no short field/RZ offence.
I am stunned how we got a win vs the Lions after also catching up on their game (I have a friend that's a big Lions fan so watching them at the moment is fun). But I watch that team and I see good coaching, well drilled players, and core schemes on both sides that click. Right now we feel a loooong way from contesting for the Playoffs, let alone beyond that.
Huge, HUGE, game vs the Cards coming up. I think it's an absolute must win if we want to make the playoffs. Rams are coming on stronger each week, and the Cards are much better then their 1-5 record, if they get confidence they could easily get up to our record.
You can call it an over-reaction. But last night we saw the same issues that have been brought up for weeks, only this time we faced a competent team. And that's the worry, vs a competent team we will get beat.
Still wondering why DK incurred yet another stupid UC foul, blindsiding the DB right in front of the official. It looked super cheap and ugly, like he’s just a bully. He seems beyond help.
Geno looked slower and more indecisive today than his normal rhythm. I’ve got to wonder if the Bengal DBs were disguising coverages in a way that Geno hadn’t seen on tape.
It’s also possible that the play calls took too long to develop, and by then receivers were covered, and the OL would crumble.
I think that Geno, Waldron, and the OL share responsibility for the loss. The OL wasn’t exactly clearing consistent lanes in the run game.
Better QB play could have won the game. So could quicker, decisive plays, better protection, and better run blocking. I expect that we will see improvement in at least one of these areas and the offense will get back on track.
So Joe, if a QB change is made, it better work. Be a there’s no going back after that move. And if it doesn’t work, we can kiss the playoffs goodbye. I still think we’ll be in the playoffs with Geno.
Overall, I found a lot to like in today’s game, and a lot to be bothered about.
What I liked was the defense after the first two drives. The pass rush got home in the second half. Jones showed will and Reed is on fire. And some really good plays in our secondary. REALLY good. All across the board in the secondary.
Good to see JSN get an 18 yard reception. I thought Charles Davis called it right when he said it looked like the team was trying to get JAN a bit deeper.
I can’t believe Bobo held on to that ball. My head was ringing from the hit out here in Washington.
After good performances by the O-line the past couple of weeks, they crapped the bed today. I don’t know if Cross was cc still bothered by the v toe or was just not back in synch, but he sucked at times. And don’t get me started about Phil Haynes. Jeez he looked lost. Curhan looked slow with the ankle injury.
Here’s where I met out. The Hawks should have won. But they didn’t. And because all the other top teams in the conference lost, it’s not the end of the world.
The NFL has sought parity for at least 50 years. Since the first days of Pete Rozelle. Want a great QB? Great! But you’re not going to be able to afford a good line, quality depth at skill positions, and a top defense. Want all those other things? Great! You can’t afford a great QB.
Personally I prefer to have all the other parts and hope you can get across the line with your QB. because we had the opposite from 2016-17 through 2021.
You seem satisfied with making the playoffs. I'm not.
I don't expect the Superbowl every year. But I want a team that's striving to make it and with Geno we're not. We're settling for making the playoffs if we're luck and flaming out early.
I enjoy a team that doesn’t suck. And yesterday, they were on the road playing a team expected to push for the Sb, and they had a chance to win it until the last 30 seconds.
I’m disappointed they lost, but in game 5, I’m not ready to toss the season.
Geno's cap hit next year would be just over $31,000,000. One would hope the Hawks would go in another direction if he doesn't show a lot more soon.
My biggest frustration with Carroll has always been his lack of willingness to take chances. Can Lock be better than Geno? Who knows. But we won't know unless we try. With Geno, maybe we make the Wildcard game. Maybe we win that and get to the next round. But who thinks he's taking us within sniffing distance of a Superbowl? I'd much rather try Lock and, if we don't make the playoffs, at least we'll know where we stand going into next year's draft.
Yes, it's hard to find a great QB in the NFL. But we know how far we can get with Geno. Are you satisfied with the result? I'm not. I'd rather have a shot at a special season and flame out than go with the predictable but mediocre QB leading to a predictable, mediocre season.
Do the Niners have no shot with Purdy? Hurts just made the SB and if the field wasn't terrible may have won. Stafford won a SB. Matt Ryan was up 28-3 in the SB.
My point is ... You don't necessarily need a Brady or Mahomes (although it would be great to have) to win the SB. Geno in his current form is certainly good enough.
Having said that, I am a big Lock fan. If they chose to go that direction, I'd be happy also.
I watched a game Lock led for the Broncos and was stunned with his performance. 100% healthy. Then the wheels came off the whole team. These guys are X Factors for any team they play with. Russ was one, early on. Lock has it in him. I say we tap that. Take a look.
I see so much more from Purdy than from Geno. He's shown he can think quickly and make smart decisions. He scrambles well too. Not the strongest arm but quite accurate. Geno is generally accurate but he makes tons of boneheaded decisions. He's not a threat to run.
Lock may not be the guy but there's only one way to find out.
OK- Have watched the game now THREE times~! Took notes through two of them - To see if I saw something different. Stupid pass INT. - But other than that , mostly poor O-line play and a COMPLETE Poor O game Plan (3RD AND AFTER)!!! The Middle was open almost all game ,to pass to , But the HAWKS had nobody there???? Watch the game ---- Over and over nobody going into the pop middle right or left- WHY???? Beginning to understand the talk about the O- coach.
Throw one more thing in there - ASK any O-line guy - He'll tell you it truly is more than just throwin a guy in there- Good O-line play takes communication and feel and knowing what your next door buddy is going to do. That makes good o-lines! Seattle will get way better as the year goes on if they stay healthy!!!!!
Totally agree JJ. Holten would likely never guide us to a SB, but I sure thought he was fun to watch!!
I don't know if starting Lock will help but something has to change. 3rd down conversions and red zone efficiency (arguably the most important offensive statistics) are our biggest weaknesses and we would go from average to great if we could fix them. Our defense was lights out against the Bengals (will anyone else hold Burrow to under 200 yds passing?) and we left so many points off the board. Geno does alright until crucial moments and then he takes bad sacks and/or makes poor decisions. I can see why Seattle gave him the contract they did and I'm glad they did so they aren't saddled with an Albert Pujols sized albatross.
Geno is a game manager. Always has been. I agree that he has been good at times and meh at times. This balances out to good, but not good enough. I also agree with the folks here who have pointed out that Geno is good in the locker room, and is a cheap option for now. I don't expect anybody to play perfectly, or even play excellently every game, but I expect our QB to work hard with good coaching to somehow find a way to win.
Geno had a substandard game. Waldron has done a great job of calling heavy sets and using TEs to help the weak OL we have filling in, but not this game. If I had to give percentages of fault for this loss, I would give coaching at least 65%, Geno 25%, and the rest to DK and penalties. I am just mystified at how we have heard about being run first, our OL is beat up, and we still call pass after effing pass inside the 10. Not just that, but shotgun no help protection pass formations.
Nobody here can tell me that if we ran the ball more and used more TE protect, screens, and other pass rush counter plays, that Geno wouldn't be better, to some degree. Every QB makes better decisons with more time. How about we gameplan to magnify our strengths vs the opponent's weaknesses, and reinforce and hide our own weaknesses as much as possible? I'm not an NFL coach, but it is as plain as the nise on Taylor Swift's face that we are calling plays that have very little margin of error, and doing it in ways that increase our risk of error. We can't keep expecting our mediocre QB is perform at his best while doing this.
If we switch to any QB available, Lock or whomever else in the draft, and still call these bullshit games against teams that just pray we keep throwing it while leaving the worst OLinemen we have on islands, then it will look just as bad.
Absolutely right! Only two rushes for Charbonett was almost criminal. Inside the 10 I want a steady diet of Charbs and Walker.
If you want to be an old school, pound the ball and play tough defense then you have to embrace that and not abandon it at the goal line.
I think the thing that broke the LOB Hawks wasn’t that they lost to the Patriots. It’s that they lost on a weak pass to a young, light WR rather than giving it to Marshawn. If the Patriots stop him twice to win then hats off to them!
Agree but ,gotta have the o-line guys , and them being on the same page-
Geno wasn’t great, but he didn’t lose this game alone. He played well enough to win this game, but the coaches negated their strengths at key moments.
On the drive that resulted in Geno’s goal line interception the Hawks had 1st and goal at about the 5 yard line. First play- Walker for 2 yards, second play pass play with Walker committing blocking foul, 3rd play- interception at goal line. Other drives had similar endings.
My complaint isn’t with Geno! The Hawks spent high draft pick on quality RBs, but in an ideal place to pound the ball they used Walker as a blocker, his weakest skill, instead of a runner. 3 running plays either gets them a TD or FG and no interception for Geno. Get that FG and any of the other red zone trips only require a FG for the win.
If Pete really was the run first guy that people paint him as I think the Hawks win this game. He has a slightly better than average QB, but Pete/Waldron are asking him to carry the team rather than manage it.
The whole NFL is enamored with TDs over FGs, of course we prefer more points, but 3 points are better than 0 points! The Hawks were at the Cincy 8 or better three times and got zero points when 3 easily made FGs win this one. The goal isn’t to outscore the opponent by 25 points, but by at least 1.
To use a baseball analogy it’s HR ball vs. small ball. Walks and singles that score one run in 6 or 7 innings will beat one massive grand slam by the other team, but the grand slam ends up on Sportscenter.
Wow i was not expecting that post. It's difficult, because Geno is someone that is easy to root for...he always is team first, and unlike the #3 pressers, tells it like it is. I think chasing "the next Mahomes" can be a very slippery slope...but in this NFL I think you need a qb who is mobile, and Geno, while he can slide or avoid pressure at times he is essentially an old school, stand up qb. If Geno is our QB we need to have a dominant defense, and that is not something we have. I do not see Pete moving on from Geno until a truly better option is secured. Drew Lock is not that, or at least is not clearly that yet.
Just rewatched the offense. Geno made some bad plays, no doubt about it. The interception to JSN, he missed some throws (DK in the first half???), and took some sacks that he shouldn't have. He also made some incredible plays and throws. So a little bit of a mixed bag.
I agree with some of the playcalling sentiment on here. One of the things the Bengals did well was disguise the coverage between man and zone. I am not sure why we don't have more presnap motion to try and give a tell to what coverage they are in. We should be running presnap motion and play-action on most plays.
I see we are back to picking on good ole minimum salary Jake Curhan again. And once again it doesn't make that much sense. To my eye, Phil Haynes was the main cuplrit throughout the game. I also thought that Bradford stuggled. Curhan played through an ankle injury and did an admirable job. We all knew when the line went down that this was going to be a struggle. Well, it finally is after winning three straight games and it is surprising? Some of those sacks are also on Geno. He needs to step up in the pocket but of course that is easy to say from the couch and not when you are getting hit all game from inside pressure.
DK needs to be better. Giving up an interception and another 15 yard penalty is not what you want out of your highest paid guy.
Overall, I think this was a team loss on the offense. Most everyone had their good and bad moments. And if it weren't for Hedrickson making a heck of a play on a goal line run where Walker scores easily, this may not even be a conversation this morning.
Go Hawks ... on to the next.
is it just me, or did we not see the 12 personnel grouping at all? I thought that might be a solution to the pass rush protection issues but it didn't seem to show up at all.
Exactly. If you have a backup tackle you are paying the minimum for AND he gets a sprained ankle ... as a signal caller and/or QB ... Shouldn't we be sticking a TE over their for some help?
When I rewatched the film, I actually thought Curhan played better than I originally thought. Not to mention, he is blocking next to a rookie (Bradford) who struggled.
Really felt the play calling yesterday was more a fault as the QB play was. Seems like they kept looking to punish with play calls deep that never materialized. We forgot how strong our TE play is across the middle. Charby only had two carries and his skill set seemed a better match-up against the defense. That said, I do believe we are seeing peak Geno, but is that necessarily a problem? Really have to cleave apart is he again faltering this season because defenses get tape and stymie him or is the play calling an issue. I like what Luis says about trying something different with Lock in the red zone- his speed over Geno is absolutely apparent and maybe that starts to get things moving in the RZ finally. OL play was not as good as weeks past either- rush lanes were poor, Curhan reverted to being a turn-stile once again, not a good mesh with deep pass calls for how they were playing and no adjustment apparent either. To me is feels like different play calling would have won this game instead of wishing for better QB play.
Also feels like we all forgot that Geno was the guy- for now. He was good enough, for now, until we could finally figure out the long term solution. Feels very much like we are on that plan. There is no viable option to replace Geno in the league currently short of a Denver-esque massive rebuild and we've seen how that has gone. There is no viable options far as I can tell thru the end of this season to replace Geno. So until we can score another 5th round steal at QB we lie in the bed made. Free agency and trades are an option this off-season too. The pain of replacing Geno is likely ten fold than working to playing to ALL of the offenses' talent. The offensive scheme did not work this game. The real tell will be against Arizona- if its as poor, I'll be back with an entirely different slant to my takes.
ETA: Corbin Smith tweeted that Geno was hit 12 times in the 3 games prior. He was hit 13 times in 4Q of play yesterday- with "most coming within 2.5 seconds". Cut the man some slack ok.
I have an idea: call Lock “red zone specialist” and play him when we get close. Geno’s still the starter, but we would be using him where he excels (completing long-ish passes at a high rate between the 20s) and subbing him where he falters (red zone). Boom or bust like lock is terrible way to play offense, but it’s the right mindset for the red zone.
I knew this would be here waiting for me this morning. Look it, I can take any QB, throw out the good games, point at the bad games, or bad stretches in games, and say 'that's not good enough'. Somebody mentioned Purdy below, and he did not look good today. Mahomes has had decidedly 'meh' stretches this year. Hurts had a horrible game yesterday, and he's making top dollar. There are factors that drive QB play, and they affect all QB's not just Geno. Pressure, defensive scheme, play call from the offensive coordinator, run blocking, etc. When these things aren't going well QB play will suffer, and today it suffered. Geno had his screw-ups today as well, and he owned up to that, so I'm not absolving him of responsibility. I'm just saying, there are factors that drive successful (or not) QB play, and there are very few QB's who can transcend that consistently.
I don't know what Geno will become any more than anybody else does. Will he be good enough on his own to drag a team to a SB win? I don't think so. Is he good enough to get there with the right supporting cast, I hope so. Here's what I think I do know.
- Geno's partnership with Waldron is key. On pass plays, it looks like too often the play design is not shaking people free and Geno holds the ball looking for secondary and tertiary options. Is that the players or the play design? I think we have enough skill at WR and TE, so I'm laying a bunch of this on Waldron.
- QB and RB play will directly correlate to the play of the o-line, and it is not good enough right now in either the run or pass game. Too much pressure generally, and yesterday quick pressure up the middle which will kill any QB success probability.
- The defense was outstanding after that slow start. I'm very pumped up about that, because this isn't close to what they could be with some development of the younger pieces.......of which there are a number.
- DK needs to rethink who he is as a football player. Stop trying to intimidate with your presence, and start trying to intimidate with your skill and play. Pete has a rule.....'Protect the Team!' and DK is not doing that. Pete's most unsuccessful stretch as the Seahawks coach came when he stopped enforcing that rule, and allowed some of the personalities to transcend his basic tenants. DK should not get a pass. There are just too many examples of him putting himself above the Team. Pete has to stop 'addressing it' and have the 'or else' chat with him. On days like today, 15 yard penalties can be the difference between winning and losing.
that's a very reasonable and well reasoned take. Something in short supply these days lol. I hope Geno reaches his ceiling and can stay close enough to it that the Hawks. keep winning games. The Bengals were incredibly sticky in the back end during that game and the pass rush was dominant. That was the best secondary play I've seen since the LOB honestly (minus the bone crushing hits).
Agree Waldron sucks in the Red Zone. Looks like their Defenses always know what we are doing, so mix it up. Confuse everybody and let the QB sort it out in real time. Listen to your guys in the huddle. Go with it. Then there is the Lock question. Seems like the Team is asking this, too. Yesterday was the same sad performance as we saw in the NYG game. We won it due to our defense supplying the extra points needed. Looked to me like it was a worse performance, actually. That's how teams can air their grievances. There comes a point where the Team demands answers. Podium Geno saying he has to do better isn't cutting it. Taking "blame" isn't cutting it. Inserting Lock in the Red Zone will answer these building anxieties and address the fears that Geno will be cut out. Quite the reverse, in the long run. And it will confuse Defenses...
Regarding DK- I suspect part of his problem, ironically, is how gifted he is. He has always been the biggest and fastest player on the field so he hasn’t had to learn techniques to make up for deficiencies like Lockett who is small, but quick or Bobo who is big, but slow. In high school DK was massively more gifted than his peers, in college it was a noticeable advantage, in the NFL he’s just marginally more gifted. He needs to adjust to that reality and study his teammates as much as possible, which I think he has. His hands and route running have improved this year. Now he needs to accept that he won’t win every play, keep his cool, put the bad plays behind and get ready for the next.
I’ve done a quarter-by-quarter look at Geno’s 2023 games. It shows a QB who flashes at times and disappears for long stretches. Yesterday’s game reinforced that view. Should this continue, it’s not good enough.
Carroll will give Geno a long rope because that’s part of Pete’s makeup as a coach. Which is fine with me: Carroll has been successful doing it his way. But I’m with Joe: The end is nigh for a QB who makes bad decisions with the game on the line.
I cannot "like" your post twice, so I am adding a "well said".
Caught up on the game this morning. Geno was just Geno, doing what Geno does, has done, and will keep doing. And if you want a 9-8/8-9 season and backing into a WildCard spot that's fine, he can do that, this team can do that.
But it's not what I want, and why I'll keep demanding more. Although to give some credit to Geno, I think this Shane Waldron offence is completely toothless and utterly hopeless. Against one of the worst Run defences in 2023 we mustered les than 90yds! Charbonnet got only 2 carries! He had more receiving yards than running. This was an ideal day to just grind the Bengals into submission but Geno/Waldron seemed intent on trying to punish them deep - which works when you have a lot of field to play with, so we start each drive well and slowly fall off as the field shrinks and we have no short field/RZ offence.
I am stunned how we got a win vs the Lions after also catching up on their game (I have a friend that's a big Lions fan so watching them at the moment is fun). But I watch that team and I see good coaching, well drilled players, and core schemes on both sides that click. Right now we feel a loooong way from contesting for the Playoffs, let alone beyond that.
Huge, HUGE, game vs the Cards coming up. I think it's an absolute must win if we want to make the playoffs. Rams are coming on stronger each week, and the Cards are much better then their 1-5 record, if they get confidence they could easily get up to our record.
You can call it an over-reaction. But last night we saw the same issues that have been brought up for weeks, only this time we faced a competent team. And that's the worry, vs a competent team we will get beat.
Still wondering why DK incurred yet another stupid UC foul, blindsiding the DB right in front of the official. It looked super cheap and ugly, like he’s just a bully. He seems beyond help.
No one blames gimpy Mahomes for his loss to Brady when the Chiefs line was patchwork in SB. 29 pressures for Mahomes to 4 for Brady.
But hey, let's get the pitchforks out for gimpy Geno after this one.
If Geno can get us to the SB, I won’t blame him if we lose. But I doubt he can.
Geno looked slower and more indecisive today than his normal rhythm. I’ve got to wonder if the Bengal DBs were disguising coverages in a way that Geno hadn’t seen on tape.
It’s also possible that the play calls took too long to develop, and by then receivers were covered, and the OL would crumble.
I think that Geno, Waldron, and the OL share responsibility for the loss. The OL wasn’t exactly clearing consistent lanes in the run game.
Better QB play could have won the game. So could quicker, decisive plays, better protection, and better run blocking. I expect that we will see improvement in at least one of these areas and the offense will get back on track.
(P. S.: Everybody must get stoned.)
So Joe, if a QB change is made, it better work. Be a there’s no going back after that move. And if it doesn’t work, we can kiss the playoffs goodbye. I still think we’ll be in the playoffs with Geno.
Overall, I found a lot to like in today’s game, and a lot to be bothered about.
What I liked was the defense after the first two drives. The pass rush got home in the second half. Jones showed will and Reed is on fire. And some really good plays in our secondary. REALLY good. All across the board in the secondary.
Good to see JSN get an 18 yard reception. I thought Charles Davis called it right when he said it looked like the team was trying to get JAN a bit deeper.
I can’t believe Bobo held on to that ball. My head was ringing from the hit out here in Washington.
After good performances by the O-line the past couple of weeks, they crapped the bed today. I don’t know if Cross was cc still bothered by the v toe or was just not back in synch, but he sucked at times. And don’t get me started about Phil Haynes. Jeez he looked lost. Curhan looked slow with the ankle injury.
Here’s where I met out. The Hawks should have won. But they didn’t. And because all the other top teams in the conference lost, it’s not the end of the world.
The NFL has sought parity for at least 50 years. Since the first days of Pete Rozelle. Want a great QB? Great! But you’re not going to be able to afford a good line, quality depth at skill positions, and a top defense. Want all those other things? Great! You can’t afford a great QB.
Personally I prefer to have all the other parts and hope you can get across the line with your QB. because we had the opposite from 2016-17 through 2021.
Just my 2 cents.
A QB change might not work. But PCJS would know where they stood going forward.
Haynes likely played hurt. With Lewis out, Haynes had to play as long as he could stand upright.
You seem satisfied with making the playoffs. I'm not.
I don't expect the Superbowl every year. But I want a team that's striving to make it and with Geno we're not. We're settling for making the playoffs if we're luck and flaming out early.
I enjoy a team that doesn’t suck. And yesterday, they were on the road playing a team expected to push for the Sb, and they had a chance to win it until the last 30 seconds.
I’m disappointed they lost, but in game 5, I’m not ready to toss the season.
And thanks for telling me what I think.
This!!! I've been saying exactly this. I don't want to be the Vikings!
Geno's cap hit next year would be just over $31,000,000. One would hope the Hawks would go in another direction if he doesn't show a lot more soon.
My biggest frustration with Carroll has always been his lack of willingness to take chances. Can Lock be better than Geno? Who knows. But we won't know unless we try. With Geno, maybe we make the Wildcard game. Maybe we win that and get to the next round. But who thinks he's taking us within sniffing distance of a Superbowl? I'd much rather try Lock and, if we don't make the playoffs, at least we'll know where we stand going into next year's draft.
Yes, it's hard to find a great QB in the NFL. But we know how far we can get with Geno. Are you satisfied with the result? I'm not. I'd rather have a shot at a special season and flame out than go with the predictable but mediocre QB leading to a predictable, mediocre season.
I think Geno can win a SB.
Do the Niners have no shot with Purdy? Hurts just made the SB and if the field wasn't terrible may have won. Stafford won a SB. Matt Ryan was up 28-3 in the SB.
My point is ... You don't necessarily need a Brady or Mahomes (although it would be great to have) to win the SB. Geno in his current form is certainly good enough.
Having said that, I am a big Lock fan. If they chose to go that direction, I'd be happy also.
I watched a game Lock led for the Broncos and was stunned with his performance. 100% healthy. Then the wheels came off the whole team. These guys are X Factors for any team they play with. Russ was one, early on. Lock has it in him. I say we tap that. Take a look.
Ryan, Stafford are on another echelon than Geno, Hurts is a better QB than Geno, Purdy is smarter and makes quicker decisions.
I see so much more from Purdy than from Geno. He's shown he can think quickly and make smart decisions. He scrambles well too. Not the strongest arm but quite accurate. Geno is generally accurate but he makes tons of boneheaded decisions. He's not a threat to run.
Lock may not be the guy but there's only one way to find out.
ns
Check Purdys game out today ... absolutely pathetic. It’s not just the numbers - it was terrible to watch.
IMO, If Geno were on the Niners they would be the best team in the league and favorites to win the SB. Substantial upgrade to purdy.