I don't read FieldGulls, but aside from missing half the season due to injury, nothing happened to him. He did a good job. Seems to me FG might be setting up one of their offseason narratives they like to push...
I forget where I heard this since last Saturday so sorry for the lack of reference. Someone was saying there are two ways to build elite teams. One is the way the media wants you to think about it. This is a team that revolves and is centered around one player, the quarterback. The second way is to build a dominant defense with an average to maybe great quarterback. The person speaking said the second way is what the Seahawks have done. It might have been MM on his radio show but I’m not sure. Anyways, interesting to see the two examples you brought up that actually solidify that point for me.
This team is built to dominate on the defensive side of the ball. They are literally top 10 to top 5 in every defensive statistical category that has ever been made up at this point. It’s what we did with Russ when he wasn’t running the ship in 2013. He wasn’t elite his second year in the league but looking back those might have been his best years on the field.
You’re right! I think trying to get an elite qb is a fool’s errand. The teams that do that are teams like the ones who let our current qb go. Besides SF, I think he went there to learn how to be a quarterback in the league.
When Pete Carroll became coach and head of football operations (whatever it was called), the prevailing view was that a team could not win a Super Bowl without an elite QB. Pete’s great insight was that this was pure defeatism—that a winning team could be built around a merely capable QB. His wisdom has been born out time and again: since PC returned to the NFL, Joe Flacco, young Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, Jalen Hurts, Nick Foles, the post-vital Peyton Manning, and pre-vital Matthew Stafford have each won SBs.
OK, I am going to say it. This team is better than the Legion of Boom. I believe that.
Rusty wrote: "So Saturday’s game is what successful playoff football looks like. for Seattle. A kick-ass run game that gives the Hawks a HUGE time of possession advantage and a D that shuts down the opposing offense."
And that got me thinking back on the LOB, and I believe what Rusty described of our current team is what the world's myth about the LOB is. But the irony is that our own Method over BS (MOB) team is more true to the LOB myth than the LOB ever was.
Marshawn was and always be a unique and admirable figure who transcends football now, as a character. But our 2013 team was way more of a "bend, don't break" philosophy than our current kick ass defense is to confuse, and attack with four (monsters) on the line and fall back into an unpredictable pass defense as to whether it is a one deep or two deep safety look, and what kind of zone or is it man to man? Pete was about doing one thing really well and having the personnel to do it well. And beat them because we were just better. Which works if you really were better.
The truth is, sometimes our offense wasn't better, and our defense was not always perfect either. We could not depend on getting one yard if we really needed one from anywhere on the field, but especially on the one yard line. Marshawn would get stuffed often enough I would cringe when that time came. Such as in the SB in 2014 at the end of the game and we were on the one yard line and Someone called for a pass play and some of you are in tears right now because that is how you will always react to that memory. And why exactly would they call a pass play in that situation if they had the tush push the Eagles used to have? Or the Barnyard if it's truly one yard or less? Which is what griped me about our last game's decision to pass the ball. Heck Charbonnet was open and was the first read and freaking Sam appeared to be looking right at him and he just did not throw it. Someone needs to ask him about that. But it happens. I think he panicked, when he did not need to panic. But the choice should have been to run the Barnyard. Plain and simple, and it would have worked as it almost always has. At the approximately the same 90% rate that was the Eagles highest rate when they were using it up and down the field. And I wish we would do the same thing.
Getting back to the LOB vs. MOB, it just seems to me this offense is considerably better than the LOB's offense, while the defense at worst is the equal to the LOB. Our defense has not had as many sacks or pressures in the last six games or so, and I worry they are a bit over tired, especially having to make do without Hall, which I propose is a significant hit to our defense.
Personally, I think Hall is noticeably better than Mafe and will develop into another Demarcus Lawrence. Which is saying a lot. He is borderline HOF material. Imagine if Leo Williams gets his second breath with this week off and comes back to where he was at the end of last year. Two sacks a game ... Our defense would crush the life out of every opponent.
I have a suspicion that Barner is suffering from a light injury of some sort (he even went to the locker room during the game for reportable hip issues). The last few times they have brough the formation out it's been to try to get an offsides penalty. I think they haven't wanted to expose him to that situation right now.
I do not know as much about contract stuff as some of you do, but I think 1 reason for the large first year payment on Cross is because next year they will be looking to extend both JSN and Witherspoon. So, they will need a lot of money.
First year "payment" always includes the signing bonus, which is then split up over the length of the contract for cap purposes. So the $40.5m in year one could be $36m in signing bonus, and $4.5m in salary and other bonuses (roster/per game/etc). These reports don't mean a whole lot until we see how the contract is structured.
I wondered about that, too, and you may be right. I wondered if it didn't set us up to trade him for a very high pick in the future. Like it's the only way I know how to legally buy a draft pick. But there are many more plausible reasons to do it this way including yours.
I happy they got this extension done now. Cross may be young, but he's not got much left to prove. The odds of him remaining steady or improving are far greater than him regressing. This extension has seemed like an inevitability for a while now, so it's good to lock it in. Good vibes heading into the playoffs.
agreed, and maybe playing for a super bowl contender/champion will help keep him around. If someone wants to give him an opportunity to start, though, and a modest contract to match, it'll be hard to retain him.
I like the Cross deal. 5 more years locked down (5th year + 4-year extension). He's not the best LT in the game, but I have him Top7/8 based on his consistency as he's always putting in 8/10 performances. So it's only a small overpay right now, but worth it in peace of mind.
How many times has SSJ talked about O-Line taking time to gel and that the best in the league are built over years working together. Cross, Zabel, Lucas all set for the future. I'd keep Sundell around (even if we could upgrade). Bradford is serviceable (most people disagree with me). There's no panic on the O-Line and now JS can just observe and snipe his ideal upgrade.
In two years time I bet we'll look at this deal as a steal. Other teams will have overpaid on veterans who get injured, or on gambles that flame out. We'll sit there with Cross, Zabel and Lucas, paying 10-15th most for the Line, whilst having a Top5 unit. Argh it feels gooooodddd!!!
Teams go all-in with crazy trades (looking at you Colts), or wild short term deals (looking at you Buccs) followed by years of flailing. This is how to go all-in properly, draft well, develop, pay those known quantities and keep drafting around them to balance all the costs. Even if we don't win a ring this year so much is set of come right back next season and the season after.
I doubt the 4 years is added onto the 5th year extension, but rather it wipes out the 5th year option or replaces it with the 4 years, however you want to say it. So it would run from 2026 through, and including 2029.
Edit: Quote from The Expanse: "Once it is written, it is forever." but I am still confused though I don't care one way or the other. I'd just like to understand the rule and stuff.
The 5th year option is a non-negotiable fixed amount extension, as defined in the CBA. At activation this is fully guaranteed, and guarantees the base salary of the 4th year too. Like the other 4-years of the rookie contract the values and clauses, bonuses etc are all predetermined by the CBA and the only variable items are basically signing bonuses.
So as the 5th-year option was already activated, it's a fixed deal. Any contract extension would only come in after the expiry of the preexisting deal. So Cross next season is on the 5th-year, and the 4-year extension comes in after that. Taking us through 2030 (and allowing us to slightly drop the AAV to feel good).
If Seattle had not used the 5th-year option, then the extension would take over at the end of his 4-year rookie deal. Again you cannot negotiate, change, subvert, whatever the rookie deals, they are set by the CBA. So for a lot of players you will have them extended after 4-years.
It's best to imagine the 5th-year option as equivalent to the Franchise Tag (in part as 5th-year values can also be impacted by the Tag value). Once you Tag a player that is a fixed deal for the year. Any extension agreed upon under the Tag starts from the next season, not the current one. Same with normal contract extensions, the current deal ends first, then the new contract begins.
This is also all a bit mixed up timelines wise because you have to execute the 5th-year option really early, by 1st May of the previous year! So time to start thinking what the best routes are for Devon and JSN (Devon probably worth getting an extension done first, JSN we can take time on as his option cost is not that bad comparitively)
Wow, I believe you since you just as well might have written an answer to a bar examination question. However, I will confirm since one thing you said seems contradictory. Because you said his contract would begin next year, and I've heard he is being paid a lot of money on the first year salary and you said the 5th year option is still in effect so he would be getting his fifth year option salary which you said is fixed according to the CBA contract. So there's some mixup I'm sure you can explain. Looking forward to it. Because he is in his 4th year right? He's not currently on the 5th year contract.
I've seen Rappaport quote the $40mil figure for "year 1", not 'next year'. Year 1 of the deal would be 2027, with the 5th-year option being 'next year', 2026.
But as the $40mil seems to come from the Agency, via Rappaport, i'd not treat it as "Cross is guaranteed $40mil in 2027". It's probably large Roster Bonus, not too different from Darnolds deal. Could be a reasonable way to do things, shift value of the contract to his 'prime' years and give yourselves ways to move on after a few years that don't cause you crippling damage.
I wonder how much it costs Lucas working with Bradford right next to him. Abe has always held a greatness in himself. I would not invite a close-up stare from the guy. Scares me and I'm fearless.
So Saturday’s game is what successful playoff football looks like. for Seattle. A kick-ass run game that gives the Hawks a HUGE time of possession advantage and a D that shuts down the opposing offense.
A bit more red zone success by the O, and Myers getting back to normal accuracy and I’ll just pencil in our return trip to Santa Clara.
Great call on Seahawk win. My only concern the last few games is Darnold now afraid to throw the deep ball?
I paid the other day for a guy to get your articles. I think a good article with the Cross signing is who we can really afford to keep and who we should keep. Cheers
Seahawks stuffed the Niners with 3 - 3 and outs and made the Niners look so pedestrian!
The thing I love about this team is that they can beat you so many ways: Throwing darts to the best WR in the NFL (Nacua is great, but also a head case), running the ball down your throat (thank you John Benton!), with sniffling Defense (OMG Coach Mike!) and with special teams (I was completely wrong about Jay Harbaugh!).
Seahawks are a Complete Team - by far the most complete in the NFL this year.
John Schneider has produced a masterclass the last few years in the draft, trading first Russell Wilson, then Geno and DK, signing Sam Darnold and trading for Rasheed Shaheed.
He has also set Seahawks up for continued success by extending Abe Lucas, and Charles Cross to team friendly deals. Cross’s extension will look very cheap in 2027 when the NFL Salary Cap is set to go up dramatically.
So much fun to see this all play out and see our Team become primed for extended success!!
I'm wondering if JS gave Cross as much or more than he expected. I'm suspecting he wants to assure the Men that he is intent on being more than fair on their contracts. No games. He wants to build Loyalty. There are also a hundred way a Corporation can augment a worker's cost of living or enhance their future retirement with benefits. Stuff we don't see. A Big Plus is living in a State with no income tax. No wonder guys want to "retire" here.
The Ask on Darnold is he doesn't hurt the team with Ints and fumbles. So hand it off, settle down and we'll review later. The rise of our O-Line coordinated dancing is evident in the affect on the Run game. Soon enough, I trust it will open up the Pass game with Sam more confident and efficient than ever before. Let the DCs wrestle with who we shall be this week...
Lest see how much the achievement goals and guarantees are in the deal. On the surface it always seems a bit excessive but not too much. Cross IMO is average but he is pretty durable that counts for a lot too. Injury guarantees in contracts can kill your cap.
Charles Cross comments from MM. "Cornerstone" Worth a read
https://x.com/BradyHenderson/status/2008241723034816648
Some trivia - h/t Fieldgulls
The strength of schedule was brutal
https://www.fieldgulls.com/post/pHVEJA0tCQ09
Thanks, Idaho, good point.
What happened to Julian Love? - h/t Fielgulls
The Case of the disappearing Seahawk
https://www.fieldgulls.com/post/HZhvg76m35FQ
I don't read FieldGulls, but aside from missing half the season due to injury, nothing happened to him. He did a good job. Seems to me FG might be setting up one of their offseason narratives they like to push...
Thanks, Idaho for a 'nother one. Can't Touch This.
I forget where I heard this since last Saturday so sorry for the lack of reference. Someone was saying there are two ways to build elite teams. One is the way the media wants you to think about it. This is a team that revolves and is centered around one player, the quarterback. The second way is to build a dominant defense with an average to maybe great quarterback. The person speaking said the second way is what the Seahawks have done. It might have been MM on his radio show but I’m not sure. Anyways, interesting to see the two examples you brought up that actually solidify that point for me.
This team is built to dominate on the defensive side of the ball. They are literally top 10 to top 5 in every defensive statistical category that has ever been made up at this point. It’s what we did with Russ when he wasn’t running the ship in 2013. He wasn’t elite his second year in the league but looking back those might have been his best years on the field.
Right. The problem with the Great QB approach is that no team can plan on finding one.
You’re right! I think trying to get an elite qb is a fool’s errand. The teams that do that are teams like the ones who let our current qb go. Besides SF, I think he went there to learn how to be a quarterback in the league.
When Pete Carroll became coach and head of football operations (whatever it was called), the prevailing view was that a team could not win a Super Bowl without an elite QB. Pete’s great insight was that this was pure defeatism—that a winning team could be built around a merely capable QB. His wisdom has been born out time and again: since PC returned to the NFL, Joe Flacco, young Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, Jalen Hurts, Nick Foles, the post-vital Peyton Manning, and pre-vital Matthew Stafford have each won SBs.
So when are we going to start talking about the replacement for when KK gets a head coaching gig?
Next year I hope
We finally have a Seahawks defensive nickname... The Dark Side. Glossed and supported by the players themaelves. Let's get onboard SSJ community!
https://youtube.com/shorts/LjaIBG-zOl4?si=ireoA61RuIlD2imG
COOL !
OK, I am going to say it. This team is better than the Legion of Boom. I believe that.
Rusty wrote: "So Saturday’s game is what successful playoff football looks like. for Seattle. A kick-ass run game that gives the Hawks a HUGE time of possession advantage and a D that shuts down the opposing offense."
And that got me thinking back on the LOB, and I believe what Rusty described of our current team is what the world's myth about the LOB is. But the irony is that our own Method over BS (MOB) team is more true to the LOB myth than the LOB ever was.
Marshawn was and always be a unique and admirable figure who transcends football now, as a character. But our 2013 team was way more of a "bend, don't break" philosophy than our current kick ass defense is to confuse, and attack with four (monsters) on the line and fall back into an unpredictable pass defense as to whether it is a one deep or two deep safety look, and what kind of zone or is it man to man? Pete was about doing one thing really well and having the personnel to do it well. And beat them because we were just better. Which works if you really were better.
The truth is, sometimes our offense wasn't better, and our defense was not always perfect either. We could not depend on getting one yard if we really needed one from anywhere on the field, but especially on the one yard line. Marshawn would get stuffed often enough I would cringe when that time came. Such as in the SB in 2014 at the end of the game and we were on the one yard line and Someone called for a pass play and some of you are in tears right now because that is how you will always react to that memory. And why exactly would they call a pass play in that situation if they had the tush push the Eagles used to have? Or the Barnyard if it's truly one yard or less? Which is what griped me about our last game's decision to pass the ball. Heck Charbonnet was open and was the first read and freaking Sam appeared to be looking right at him and he just did not throw it. Someone needs to ask him about that. But it happens. I think he panicked, when he did not need to panic. But the choice should have been to run the Barnyard. Plain and simple, and it would have worked as it almost always has. At the approximately the same 90% rate that was the Eagles highest rate when they were using it up and down the field. And I wish we would do the same thing.
Getting back to the LOB vs. MOB, it just seems to me this offense is considerably better than the LOB's offense, while the defense at worst is the equal to the LOB. Our defense has not had as many sacks or pressures in the last six games or so, and I worry they are a bit over tired, especially having to make do without Hall, which I propose is a significant hit to our defense.
Personally, I think Hall is noticeably better than Mafe and will develop into another Demarcus Lawrence. Which is saying a lot. He is borderline HOF material. Imagine if Leo Williams gets his second breath with this week off and comes back to where he was at the end of last year. Two sacks a game ... Our defense would crush the life out of every opponent.
Here is a comparison between the two- h/t Fieldgulls:
2013 vs 2025 Defense Wow
https://www.fieldgulls.com/post/m83YRquWQX9g
On the non-pass play to Charbs SF 's D end jumps the throwing lane and blocks SD's view of Charbs open...wide open.
OK. that sounds plausible, and explains it, but it does not explain why they did not run the Barnyard. No sight line problems.
I have a suspicion that Barner is suffering from a light injury of some sort (he even went to the locker room during the game for reportable hip issues). The last few times they have brough the formation out it's been to try to get an offsides penalty. I think they haven't wanted to expose him to that situation right now.
They could and should have run the Barnyard four times if needed. That play call was inexplicable.
I do not know as much about contract stuff as some of you do, but I think 1 reason for the large first year payment on Cross is because next year they will be looking to extend both JSN and Witherspoon. So, they will need a lot of money.
First year "payment" always includes the signing bonus, which is then split up over the length of the contract for cap purposes. So the $40.5m in year one could be $36m in signing bonus, and $4.5m in salary and other bonuses (roster/per game/etc). These reports don't mean a whole lot until we see how the contract is structured.
I wondered about that, too, and you may be right. I wondered if it didn't set us up to trade him for a very high pick in the future. Like it's the only way I know how to legally buy a draft pick. But there are many more plausible reasons to do it this way including yours.
I happy they got this extension done now. Cross may be young, but he's not got much left to prove. The odds of him remaining steady or improving are far greater than him regressing. This extension has seemed like an inevitability for a while now, so it's good to lock it in. Good vibes heading into the playoffs.
and he has said he wants to be here. But I sure hope they give a longer contract to Jones as he is a valuable backup for both tackles.
agreed, and maybe playing for a super bowl contender/champion will help keep him around. If someone wants to give him an opportunity to start, though, and a modest contract to match, it'll be hard to retain him.
I like the Cross deal. 5 more years locked down (5th year + 4-year extension). He's not the best LT in the game, but I have him Top7/8 based on his consistency as he's always putting in 8/10 performances. So it's only a small overpay right now, but worth it in peace of mind.
How many times has SSJ talked about O-Line taking time to gel and that the best in the league are built over years working together. Cross, Zabel, Lucas all set for the future. I'd keep Sundell around (even if we could upgrade). Bradford is serviceable (most people disagree with me). There's no panic on the O-Line and now JS can just observe and snipe his ideal upgrade.
In two years time I bet we'll look at this deal as a steal. Other teams will have overpaid on veterans who get injured, or on gambles that flame out. We'll sit there with Cross, Zabel and Lucas, paying 10-15th most for the Line, whilst having a Top5 unit. Argh it feels gooooodddd!!!
Teams go all-in with crazy trades (looking at you Colts), or wild short term deals (looking at you Buccs) followed by years of flailing. This is how to go all-in properly, draft well, develop, pay those known quantities and keep drafting around them to balance all the costs. Even if we don't win a ring this year so much is set of come right back next season and the season after.
I doubt the 4 years is added onto the 5th year extension, but rather it wipes out the 5th year option or replaces it with the 4 years, however you want to say it. So it would run from 2026 through, and including 2029.
Edit: Quote from The Expanse: "Once it is written, it is forever." but I am still confused though I don't care one way or the other. I'd just like to understand the rule and stuff.
See edit above.
The 5th year option is a non-negotiable fixed amount extension, as defined in the CBA. At activation this is fully guaranteed, and guarantees the base salary of the 4th year too. Like the other 4-years of the rookie contract the values and clauses, bonuses etc are all predetermined by the CBA and the only variable items are basically signing bonuses.
So as the 5th-year option was already activated, it's a fixed deal. Any contract extension would only come in after the expiry of the preexisting deal. So Cross next season is on the 5th-year, and the 4-year extension comes in after that. Taking us through 2030 (and allowing us to slightly drop the AAV to feel good).
If Seattle had not used the 5th-year option, then the extension would take over at the end of his 4-year rookie deal. Again you cannot negotiate, change, subvert, whatever the rookie deals, they are set by the CBA. So for a lot of players you will have them extended after 4-years.
It's best to imagine the 5th-year option as equivalent to the Franchise Tag (in part as 5th-year values can also be impacted by the Tag value). Once you Tag a player that is a fixed deal for the year. Any extension agreed upon under the Tag starts from the next season, not the current one. Same with normal contract extensions, the current deal ends first, then the new contract begins.
This is also all a bit mixed up timelines wise because you have to execute the 5th-year option really early, by 1st May of the previous year! So time to start thinking what the best routes are for Devon and JSN (Devon probably worth getting an extension done first, JSN we can take time on as his option cost is not that bad comparitively)
Wow, I believe you since you just as well might have written an answer to a bar examination question. However, I will confirm since one thing you said seems contradictory. Because you said his contract would begin next year, and I've heard he is being paid a lot of money on the first year salary and you said the 5th year option is still in effect so he would be getting his fifth year option salary which you said is fixed according to the CBA contract. So there's some mixup I'm sure you can explain. Looking forward to it. Because he is in his 4th year right? He's not currently on the 5th year contract.
I've seen Rappaport quote the $40mil figure for "year 1", not 'next year'. Year 1 of the deal would be 2027, with the 5th-year option being 'next year', 2026.
But as the $40mil seems to come from the Agency, via Rappaport, i'd not treat it as "Cross is guaranteed $40mil in 2027". It's probably large Roster Bonus, not too different from Darnolds deal. Could be a reasonable way to do things, shift value of the contract to his 'prime' years and give yourselves ways to move on after a few years that don't cause you crippling damage.
Not correct -- they keep the 5th year option (it's relatively cheap) and then add on the four more years. Pretty standard in extensions, I believe.
I wonder how much it costs Lucas working with Bradford right next to him. Abe has always held a greatness in himself. I would not invite a close-up stare from the guy. Scares me and I'm fearless.
Lucas says that Bradford is a terrific guard.
...guardin' that sandwich lol
Glad to hear that. The Brothers Know.
Almost certain JS will use a 2nd/3rd on another interior OL if he doesn't poach a stud from elsewhere. If we get Maxx, prob can't pay for a top OL.
Maxx would have to sell himself to the guys. Not sure he has that in him.
So Saturday’s game is what successful playoff football looks like. for Seattle. A kick-ass run game that gives the Hawks a HUGE time of possession advantage and a D that shuts down the opposing offense.
A bit more red zone success by the O, and Myers getting back to normal accuracy and I’ll just pencil in our return trip to Santa Clara.
I'm gonna write a post using your post for inspiration. Thanks.
Give us a link please. 😁
Great call on Seahawk win. My only concern the last few games is Darnold now afraid to throw the deep ball?
I paid the other day for a guy to get your articles. I think a good article with the Cross signing is who we can really afford to keep and who we should keep. Cheers
Get a 3-score cushion and let Sam rip it deep downfield.
What a great game!
Seahawks stuffed the Niners with 3 - 3 and outs and made the Niners look so pedestrian!
The thing I love about this team is that they can beat you so many ways: Throwing darts to the best WR in the NFL (Nacua is great, but also a head case), running the ball down your throat (thank you John Benton!), with sniffling Defense (OMG Coach Mike!) and with special teams (I was completely wrong about Jay Harbaugh!).
Seahawks are a Complete Team - by far the most complete in the NFL this year.
John Schneider has produced a masterclass the last few years in the draft, trading first Russell Wilson, then Geno and DK, signing Sam Darnold and trading for Rasheed Shaheed.
He has also set Seahawks up for continued success by extending Abe Lucas, and Charles Cross to team friendly deals. Cross’s extension will look very cheap in 2027 when the NFL Salary Cap is set to go up dramatically.
So much fun to see this all play out and see our Team become primed for extended success!!
GO HAWKS!!
I found the MVS hire and cut revealing. JS was a move ahead with no promises made.
I don't know that I've ever seen a 10-point win look so dominant.
Right--the only real "squeeze" of the game was when SF drove to the red zone but Drake snuffed that out.
I'm wondering if JS gave Cross as much or more than he expected. I'm suspecting he wants to assure the Men that he is intent on being more than fair on their contracts. No games. He wants to build Loyalty. There are also a hundred way a Corporation can augment a worker's cost of living or enhance their future retirement with benefits. Stuff we don't see. A Big Plus is living in a State with no income tax. No wonder guys want to "retire" here.
The Ask on Darnold is he doesn't hurt the team with Ints and fumbles. So hand it off, settle down and we'll review later. The rise of our O-Line coordinated dancing is evident in the affect on the Run game. Soon enough, I trust it will open up the Pass game with Sam more confident and efficient than ever before. Let the DCs wrestle with who we shall be this week...
Lest see how much the achievement goals and guarantees are in the deal. On the surface it always seems a bit excessive but not too much. Cross IMO is average but he is pretty durable that counts for a lot too. Injury guarantees in contracts can kill your cap.
According to spotrac, $75M is guaranteed.