Schneider knows the work numbers by heart, so yes, it is certainly important in Indy to do the interviews and medical checks......but I don't think for one minute that the workouts aren't important. Whether Pro Day's or Combine, there are measurables that matter for each position. After the draft one of the first thing JS mentions are the workout numbers for each pick.
As to Coby, I'm grateful to every player on this Super Bowl winner. He's not a perfect player, but he's a solid player and by all accounts, unselfish teammate. Maybe we can keep him, maybe we can't, but I trust Mike Macdonald to find a way to backfill for whatever our losses are.
Some level of roster turnover is healthy, and financially necessary. Every year's a new team, and I expect going into OTA's the message will be we're going back to basics and building this thing from the ground up, just like they did last year and the year before.
I'm not emotionally attached to Coby Bryant, so I've heard most of this before and had already accepted the fact that he will be gone, and even rejoice at that because I like Okada so much, and given how cheap he is NOW, I will sort of be surprised if they don't offer him a contract that would keep him here for three years for maybe $3M/Y, but I admit I am pulling that number out of my arse. But I wouldn't mind if we got him SOME money but still get a bargain on the possibility he could be a star with more playing time.
He is one of the better hitters on this team not named Witherspoon, too.
We I think all love Ty but Ty isn’t the same position as Coby. This is my only issue with SJs article. Ty isn’t Coby just as Kam and ET were not interchangeable. Love meanwhile is that rare Safety that can play both spots. Strong Safety as Ty is, closer to the line. Free safety, deep back third. Ty in a pinch can play that deep back. Kam no way could’ve started at FS for long. And you don’t want Nick off the ball. Doesn’t mean Coby isn’t replaceable but there are players that are not interchangeable.
Ty has played both ways. I'm pretty sure we have seen Coby's ceiling, which is good or great, but he'll have a fine career somewhere else. Ty's ceiling is still uncertain and could be higher than Coby's given his better speed and better tackling as well. I think we might have a gem.
Yes as I posted to Zez, Ty is a spot filler but not the same as playing the whole season. Ty is considered more SS, which Coby is not. Ty is a box style S but like many back ups, needs to be able to play multiple spots, including of course, STs. That’s all I’m saying. Not same level. Maybe Coach Mac sees it differently but I see Ty more SS and Julian FS, if Bryant isn’t retained. Assuming they don’t get another new star.
Totally off subject, but where else am I going to post this stuff?
The NFL combine is upon us, with all of the fluff articles about who's doing what and the mock drafts. Oh dear God, the mock drafts!
I just read somebodies three round Seahawk mock draft, a CB, Center, and RB. Then I read an article proclaiming that Mike Macdonald's #1 priority in Indi was to scout the Edge Rushers. In other words, nobody has any real idea what Seattle's brain trust is going to do in the draft. All of these articles are fun to read and are good conversation starters, but they mostly make me appreciate SSJ's level-headed approach to all of this.
Don't forget teams don't volunteer any information that will hurt them, thus saying they are scouting the edges is a safe way to answer such a question. But CB has to have their eye as well.
Read recently that the “in underwear” workouts are mostly meaningless now. Indy is about the Interviews they get to do. JS still says that Robert Turbin still is his best interviewee and how he loved what Turbo brought. Not his stats. It’s about interviews and most importantly, GM and player personnel informal talks. Asking other teams about Free Agents. Prepping for draft trades and player trades. I bet this is where and why JS and his guys make such moves so well during the draft. Indy gatherings.
Yes this from Sam Teets who SJ mentioned a couple weeks back and I follow “The true value of the NFL Scouting Combine remains debatable. More organizations are limiting their personnel in attendance or are choosing to skip the event entirely, relying on tape, in-game tracking data, pro days, All-Star events, 30 visits, and previously collected data to complete their profiles for draft day.
The NFL Scouting Combine’s most valuable elements for organizations are the interviews and medical checks, but that doesn’t mean a surprisingly strong or poor showing in the on-field work and testing means nothing.”
However, you are on holidays and have mentioned nothing about them. Are you enjoying yourself? Have there been any cool stories or sights that stand out? How’s Clark coping without you?
I miss the occasional personal takes you used to give us in the early days. It used to give a sense of kinda knowing you better. I know it’s not football, but it was a nice touch.
I definitely get emotional attachments for players like Coby. Good thing there are people like SSJ to help ease the impending pain with well written logic. And of course, people like JS to balance all decisions before making them.
The high missed tackle rate is interesting. Defensive backs will generally do worse in this stat than in-the-box players, but Coby was still bad amongst his peers. I don't recall, from watching games however, that Coby stood out as a poor tackler. Perhaps his tendency to go for bigger hits and/or force fumbles impacted his tackling. As long as a deep safety is taking good angles, maintaining leverage, and funneling ball-carries into traffic, I'm more willing to forgive some shoddy tackling. That's far less frustrating than watching Derrick Hall miss out on a dozen sacks because he couldn't tackle (until the Super Bowl, that is). Coby passes the eyeball test for me as a good deep safety (not so much at SS), and I'll be sad to see him go. He has a great story and was easy to root for.
That and from my quick review, most of the “leaders” are the deep safety. Which means coming from much further away to try and make open field tackles against guys bigger than them. I’m sure that Coach Mac doesn’t hold that against Coby. ET just seemed to be an exception.
I feel bad that SSJ has to keep saying "I'm not anti-*Name*..." Nobody with any reading comprehension skills would think he is, but apparently, not all readers have that skill.
I keep asking myself - with the best 4-man rush in football up front, how good really are the other 7 guys? They all benefit from strong pressure on the QB — and from having 7 guys back there! They have help (or are help).
I love the plays that Coby made. He did his job in the system, did it well. But we all saw the evidence that other guys can do the job, Okada and others showed that.
There was an interview from JS earlier this season where he acknowledged that he and Pete made some mistakes after the first Super Bowl win, overpaid some guys. (I’d like to go back to that interview, if anyone knows the one I’m talking about). Anyway - I don’t blame them for those decisions, that 1st SB was so momentous. But John and Mike won’t make those mistakes again. They’re on a quest for dynasty, and it’s all about the system.
That be like asking was ET Kam and Sherman or KJ or BWagz were good or not since that front was just as good and better at getting to the QB. Jones clearly proved himself before coming here. As did Love. And pretty sure Nick already proved himself with or without Murphy Big Cat and JReed.
Not saying those players aren’t good - just asking how good, since this article is about how much one of them should be paid. I do think a case can be made that LOB’s elite talent was the guys you mentioned, while it leans toward the D-front with MOB. Nick E maybe the exception, but still only one year of proof. Remember Tariq? Maybe a better way to ask the question is - who would be most difficult to replace on this defense?
Agreed. Different players and schemes. I’ve been clear I absolutely hope Woolen is gone. But recall JS (probably PC) completely whiffed with Williams 10 years ago. So sometimes just any DB won’t do. I think it’s telling Pritchett still here. Clearly he’s good on STs. I trust these guys a ton to make the right choices. I love defense and what the guys are doing.
I’ve had the same thought about Pritchett - next man up, or just a special teams guy who’s not starter quality for this defense? Similar question for Shaq and Quandre - weren’t needed much this year but do they still have starter-quality skills for next season? My guess is we need younger hitters.
FYI JS actually referred to those two teaching and coaching Woolen and the DBs this year. So, while they didn’t play, they did continue to contribute to the growth of the defense.
My feeling about Bryant’s interceptions is that he had two things going on: He was in the right place at the right time, and he has good hands. The first part is set up by scheme and is based on luck. The second part is based on skill, but lots of safeties at the NFL level have good hands.
He ran a 4:54, is 6’1”, and 193. 4th rounder. If I hit the gym a bit more, I could be 6”1”, 193. If Okada can hold down the fort, JS should be able to find guys with those measurables as cast offs or UDFAs from small colleges, and MM can have the time to coach them up. 31 other teams are bound by the cap and the 53. Keep an eye on waiver lists and practice squads.
I have nothing against Bryant, and I expect that he’ll find a team willing to pay well for some of that Macdonald Super Bowl insight. The Seahawks have higher priority positions to pay at the moment.
Okada and Coby are not interchangeable. Love can play both. Ty in a quick replace. But Ty is a SS. Coby is a Free Safety. Not replacement level. And we’re not taking Nick off ball. Doesn’t mean Coby returns but if he is gone, we have a big gap.
I think Mike Macdonald knows a thing or two about what roles players can fill, and which they can't. MM likes hybrid players that can do multiple things, which a number of Seahawk players can do. D-linemen playing nose to wide 9. Safeties that are also LB's and nickel backs. Strong safeties who also play FS. DE's who can play outside LB.
Coby is a solid safety, but I wouldn't say he's one of the top 2 or 3 priorities out of our FA's.....at least he isn't for me. No idea what JS or MM are thinking.
Which is basically what I said. But FS isn’t interchangeable. I’ve pointed out guys that can play different spots. Because of Rashid I tend to agree Coby’s spot isn’t in the top. Just that there isn’t a “generic” safety spot. Love is more a FS than Ty would be full time. And no one I’m sure wants to move Nick from his in the box type role at this stage of his career. Before the season I saw Coby as a top FA but now no. And anyone that prices himself out is not coming back. JS just said it in Indy. It’s about the 70. Indicating he’s not going to spend too much for a single guy. And he also said defense wins.
Kam Chancellor wasn't fast, either. Kyle Hamilton isn't fast. Fast ain't everything at safety and 4.53 is plenty at SS. I don't want to pay Coby, but it isn't because of his 40. He isn't worth field-tilting money because he doesn't really tilt the field.
Agreed. My point about Coby is that his size and speed aren’t exceptional. There’s a big population to draw from who are in that range. The challenge is to find a guy who knows ball, sees and reacts quickly, can tackle, and has good hands. I expect that JS can find that guy at a reasonable price.
This is very different from finding another Leonard Williams. There are few people on the planet with his size and raw athleticism to start with, let alone with his skills. Bryant isn’t a unicorn.
That said, if JS could find a unicorn for the Coby Bryant role, would that give MM even more scheme flexibility? Or does the Macdonald approach just need a guy who gets into the right position for the zone consistently, and who can tackle/cover as needed? Hyper speed at the position might be a luxury, rather than foundational.
Speed never hurt anyone at any position. Our last pro bowl FS was a 5.6 40 guy, so speed definitely isn't everything when it comes to the safety position, but it still doesn't hurt and in the case of Emmanwari, his speed allows him to make up distance at the last second, which is great.
That was going to be my point....Bryant is not super fast, especially for a safety. I would love a safety like Earl Thomas again in that I want that closing speed. I see CB arriving late on passes too often and I can't help but think 'a faster safety would have been there'. I know it is a nitpick but that's how I feel. CB is a great ballplayer but we can replace. I would focus on re-signing those that can't easily be replaced...ie JSN, K9 and RS...among others. Should be fun to see the roster come together this go around, it should really start to show us MM's "type" of player now that he's had more time and success with Johnny Value. Begaw!
All pre-written and ready to send he said thus he often paraphrases that news may have superseded what he writes. But I’m sure he’s checking in to not be out of date. Hopefully they are getting a lot of sites in.
Ha!! There it is: "Nothing is ever set in Stone". Smiled immediately dude, recognize you a mile away (or 10,000 miles away).
To the point at hand: maybe you can do at some point a thought piece on depth. I think (but could be wrong on this) that Seattle had two VERY valuable things this year that we prob need again if we plan to double down on Super Bowls:
- we didn't have a terrible year injuries-wise
- we had above-average depth
That's the conundrum for me. You can let Coby go because you have a nearly equal guy behind him who's cheaper (Okada who I love) and MacDonald will drum up another Okada. Or do you also need to keep your bench in place. Virtually impossible for SB-winning teams bc their guys automatically get viewed as better/more valuable than before they won a SB (whether or not it's actually true). But I feel great about our safeties (don't consider Emmanwori a safety per se, is more of a jack of all trades) bc we have Love/Coby/Okada -- and Okada had to back up both of them when either of them went down. That's why it worked. Can we let that be broken up and survive a 20-game season?
The other thing for whenever you have the time would be cool to explore is the track record of post-SB winning players who leverage the SB win into fat contracts on their own team or elsewhere -- how many of those ended up being a good investment?
The issue Zez is Ty and Coby don’t play the same position. This is like saying that ET and Kam were interchangeable because they were “safeties”. No they are not “safeties”. It’s one gap that I see with SJ. He nails receivers well but sorry sometimes misses defense and STs specific positions. As a quick replacement, yes. Ty isnt a Free/deep safety just as Kam couldnt start over ET and ET wouldve been slaughtered at Strong Safety. Now, yes keeping Ty is definite. But if anything, it’s Love replacing Coby. Players have become heavily specialized. It also explains, in my opinion the higher miss rate. When you’re 10, 20 yards away flying at full speed, and miss, it’s a big miss. ET just had incredibly great timing. This doesn’t mean we resign Coby and agree that Coach Mac likely knows how to coach up DBs. But it’s like gunners, aka Dareke, they are specialists that are not just a “special team player”. Not all players have interchangeable positioning. Love is one that is.
I may not have the exact packages right, so may have misinterpreted his role, but yes while Love was out (much longer than Bryant who was only out for W17), Love is who Okada replaced, but I thought in the last two games he was replacing Bryant? Think he started alongside Love against Carolina, and then again against SF. And AFAIK he was just as effective in both free safety (Love) and strong safety (Bryant). That's why I'm thinking the three of them together are almost 4, given Okada can replace either.
But now that I really think about it (thanks for the push!) maybe my argument is more about how valuable Okada is due to his versatility, rather than whether or not we can find another good strong safety.
I’ve looked this up multiple times now and just now went to Chat GPT for a more thorough review:
- Okada replaced Love at free safety when he was out, playing next to Bryant at strong safety. We all seem to be aligned on that
- but, W17 and W18 when Bryant was out, per all the sources I’ve found, Love stayed at free safety and Okada played in Bryant’s strong safety role.
Which would suggest Okada is super valuable at least in a MacDonald defense (where it doesn’t matter so much where a guy lines up pre-snap, so much interchangeability required), unbelievable he was an UDFA.
Yeah, there was a pre-game announcement right before the week 17 game when Bryant was out that stated Love would be playing Bryant's position and Okada would play Love's. I was very surprised by the news at the time but figured the reason was due to Love's experience playing both positions. I have dug into it as well and cannot find anything corroborating that so who knows, the announcement could have been erroneous.
Okada is listed as the backup spot on the Seahawks internet depth chart. for both safety spots. He was a great find.
Yes you’re correct he did do so when Coby was out. But that isn’t the season. Short term is what I said. Defense has specialist now. It’s why Ucheena or Hall are not “off ball” linebackers. No way Hall can replace EJ for example. FS and SS not same. Temporarily yes. Kam could’ve started at FS if ET was hurt. They wouldn’t do so likely because you hope to rarely need FS. And the Stone compare I think is unfair considering how atrocious Cincy defense was. Just saying from what I saw, Ty wouldn’t do nearly as well patrolling the back deep third of the field. Personal opinion and maybe you’re right. Doesn’t change fact we want him back but to me I think it’s Ty at Loves spot and Love at Coby. Of course now depth is serious concern, at the moment. :-)
Actually thought you said that. :-). But not to toot my own horn, but it’s also why I kept harping on Dareke being kept last year. He’s a ST gunner, like Ricardo Lockett. And man what he did in SB, alone, I was absolutely thrilled he was kept. Gunners don’t always make the plays. Generally a DB (Pritchett) or Receiver, and rarely get to play their “role”. But as seen this whole season, Dareke would make the play or cause the returner to shift inside, where the slower but gunning LB/TE backups were coming. A little like the long snapper, speciality players/roles in the game today. Rams McVay may have learned a valuable lesson not having a coach and players for those roles. Hopefully he hasn’t!!!!!
Depth is great. The question the Hawks have to ask themselves is "what cost, depth?" Coby may well be a cap casualty as Joe suggests, unless his salary demand comes down significantly from what it appears to be. Okada is still pretty young, and among the best tacklers I've seen for the Hawks. And he's ridiculously cheap for next year.
For sure he is, fully agree. But then he's no longer depth. And that's the crapshoot: "we'll find another Okada" -- ergo AJ Finley, Maxem Hook, Jerrick Reed, D'Anthony Bell, even Diggsey, are any of those guys another Okada than do both free and strong safety? MacDonald obviously thinks not, bc he played Okada.
Jerrick Reed and D'Anthony Bell have both played well when they answered the call. I think Coby is eminently replaceable. I've never been a fan, though, he's always seemed to be a step late and looking for a hit or the ball instead of taking solid tackling.
Yeah, it's going to be about cost. Hawks want to extend arguably the best WR in the game and a whirling dervish as a CB they consider central to the team ethos. Tall order.
I guess we're all in the same anxious position as all Super Bowl champions -- perhaps the one thing that helps us all rest easier is "In Schneider We Trust". Is there a better g.m. anywhere? Now out from under Pete's shadow and his Carrollisms, I think not.
Some of JS’s later drafts under Pete seemed uncharacteristic…I keep wondering how much Pete “put his thumb on the scale” that hurt our drafts (LJ Collier, Dee Eskridge, Malik McDowell, etc)….it seems like JS is hitting the lottery now almost every time, and especially with MM’s ability to develop talent and put it in position to succeed. I think Coby and Mafe are gone, and likely Riq too. The counter to that is we only have 4 draft picks, and we need another OL piece, so will be a balancing act, for sure….but as you say, “in JS we Trust”! Totally agree!!
Pete has teased writing a book about the LOB era one day and I hope that he does and goes in-depth. Pete and John seemed to be in perfect alignment early, like Mike and John are now. Like most of us, I would love to know who made which calls on each of the re-signings and trades and such. My gut tells me that Pete was the one who was too loyal and too inclined to extend his own on 2nd and 3rd contracts. But even if John was 50/50 in that, he has seen firsthand what happens when you tie your cap up in aging stars. There's not a GM in the league I trust more.
Seems to me that CEO coaches are screwed long term as their OC's and DC's are a revolving door. And as you or someone said, Pete was too loyal to his coaches, and players for that matter.
That would be a great book!!, especially if Schneider then did his own "review" (which he won't of course).
I'm the most curious about how the Jamal Adams thing went down; then, the Russ decisions (draft, extend, trade); then the Jimmy Graham/Max Unger thing; and then the Harvin thing. Also how we ended up with Ifedi and LJ Collier as R1 picks; the Malik McDowell decision; and the whole Frank Clark dilemma. So many things I'd love to have the inside story on!!
Schneider knows the work numbers by heart, so yes, it is certainly important in Indy to do the interviews and medical checks......but I don't think for one minute that the workouts aren't important. Whether Pro Day's or Combine, there are measurables that matter for each position. After the draft one of the first thing JS mentions are the workout numbers for each pick.
As to Coby, I'm grateful to every player on this Super Bowl winner. He's not a perfect player, but he's a solid player and by all accounts, unselfish teammate. Maybe we can keep him, maybe we can't, but I trust Mike Macdonald to find a way to backfill for whatever our losses are.
Some level of roster turnover is healthy, and financially necessary. Every year's a new team, and I expect going into OTA's the message will be we're going back to basics and building this thing from the ground up, just like they did last year and the year before.
I'm not emotionally attached to Coby Bryant, so I've heard most of this before and had already accepted the fact that he will be gone, and even rejoice at that because I like Okada so much, and given how cheap he is NOW, I will sort of be surprised if they don't offer him a contract that would keep him here for three years for maybe $3M/Y, but I admit I am pulling that number out of my arse. But I wouldn't mind if we got him SOME money but still get a bargain on the possibility he could be a star with more playing time.
He is one of the better hitters on this team not named Witherspoon, too.
We I think all love Ty but Ty isn’t the same position as Coby. This is my only issue with SJs article. Ty isn’t Coby just as Kam and ET were not interchangeable. Love meanwhile is that rare Safety that can play both spots. Strong Safety as Ty is, closer to the line. Free safety, deep back third. Ty in a pinch can play that deep back. Kam no way could’ve started at FS for long. And you don’t want Nick off the ball. Doesn’t mean Coby isn’t replaceable but there are players that are not interchangeable.
Ty has played both ways. I'm pretty sure we have seen Coby's ceiling, which is good or great, but he'll have a fine career somewhere else. Ty's ceiling is still uncertain and could be higher than Coby's given his better speed and better tackling as well. I think we might have a gem.
Yes as I posted to Zez, Ty is a spot filler but not the same as playing the whole season. Ty is considered more SS, which Coby is not. Ty is a box style S but like many back ups, needs to be able to play multiple spots, including of course, STs. That’s all I’m saying. Not same level. Maybe Coach Mac sees it differently but I see Ty more SS and Julian FS, if Bryant isn’t retained. Assuming they don’t get another new star.
Totally off subject, but where else am I going to post this stuff?
The NFL combine is upon us, with all of the fluff articles about who's doing what and the mock drafts. Oh dear God, the mock drafts!
I just read somebodies three round Seahawk mock draft, a CB, Center, and RB. Then I read an article proclaiming that Mike Macdonald's #1 priority in Indi was to scout the Edge Rushers. In other words, nobody has any real idea what Seattle's brain trust is going to do in the draft. All of these articles are fun to read and are good conversation starters, but they mostly make me appreciate SSJ's level-headed approach to all of this.
Don't forget teams don't volunteer any information that will hurt them, thus saying they are scouting the edges is a safe way to answer such a question. But CB has to have their eye as well.
Read recently that the “in underwear” workouts are mostly meaningless now. Indy is about the Interviews they get to do. JS still says that Robert Turbin still is his best interviewee and how he loved what Turbo brought. Not his stats. It’s about interviews and most importantly, GM and player personnel informal talks. Asking other teams about Free Agents. Prepping for draft trades and player trades. I bet this is where and why JS and his guys make such moves so well during the draft. Indy gatherings.
JS said that exact thing in a recent interview.
Yes this from Sam Teets who SJ mentioned a couple weeks back and I follow “The true value of the NFL Scouting Combine remains debatable. More organizations are limiting their personnel in attendance or are choosing to skip the event entirely, relying on tape, in-game tracking data, pro days, All-Star events, 30 visits, and previously collected data to complete their profiles for draft day.
The NFL Scouting Combine’s most valuable elements for organizations are the interviews and medical checks, but that doesn’t mean a surprisingly strong or poor showing in the on-field work and testing means nothing.”
Another great take SJ
However, you are on holidays and have mentioned nothing about them. Are you enjoying yourself? Have there been any cool stories or sights that stand out? How’s Clark coping without you?
I miss the occasional personal takes you used to give us in the early days. It used to give a sense of kinda knowing you better. I know it’s not football, but it was a nice touch.
I’m sure he’ll have stories to share next week when he returns. 🤩
SSJ is such a hater!
Luckily, he's a hater of cheap takes.
I definitely get emotional attachments for players like Coby. Good thing there are people like SSJ to help ease the impending pain with well written logic. And of course, people like JS to balance all decisions before making them.
The high missed tackle rate is interesting. Defensive backs will generally do worse in this stat than in-the-box players, but Coby was still bad amongst his peers. I don't recall, from watching games however, that Coby stood out as a poor tackler. Perhaps his tendency to go for bigger hits and/or force fumbles impacted his tackling. As long as a deep safety is taking good angles, maintaining leverage, and funneling ball-carries into traffic, I'm more willing to forgive some shoddy tackling. That's far less frustrating than watching Derrick Hall miss out on a dozen sacks because he couldn't tackle (until the Super Bowl, that is). Coby passes the eyeball test for me as a good deep safety (not so much at SS), and I'll be sad to see him go. He has a great story and was easy to root for.
That and from my quick review, most of the “leaders” are the deep safety. Which means coming from much further away to try and make open field tackles against guys bigger than them. I’m sure that Coach Mac doesn’t hold that against Coby. ET just seemed to be an exception.
I feel bad that SSJ has to keep saying "I'm not anti-*Name*..." Nobody with any reading comprehension skills would think he is, but apparently, not all readers have that skill.
I keep asking myself - with the best 4-man rush in football up front, how good really are the other 7 guys? They all benefit from strong pressure on the QB — and from having 7 guys back there! They have help (or are help).
I love the plays that Coby made. He did his job in the system, did it well. But we all saw the evidence that other guys can do the job, Okada and others showed that.
There was an interview from JS earlier this season where he acknowledged that he and Pete made some mistakes after the first Super Bowl win, overpaid some guys. (I’d like to go back to that interview, if anyone knows the one I’m talking about). Anyway - I don’t blame them for those decisions, that 1st SB was so momentous. But John and Mike won’t make those mistakes again. They’re on a quest for dynasty, and it’s all about the system.
That be like asking was ET Kam and Sherman or KJ or BWagz were good or not since that front was just as good and better at getting to the QB. Jones clearly proved himself before coming here. As did Love. And pretty sure Nick already proved himself with or without Murphy Big Cat and JReed.
Not saying those players aren’t good - just asking how good, since this article is about how much one of them should be paid. I do think a case can be made that LOB’s elite talent was the guys you mentioned, while it leans toward the D-front with MOB. Nick E maybe the exception, but still only one year of proof. Remember Tariq? Maybe a better way to ask the question is - who would be most difficult to replace on this defense?
Agreed. Different players and schemes. I’ve been clear I absolutely hope Woolen is gone. But recall JS (probably PC) completely whiffed with Williams 10 years ago. So sometimes just any DB won’t do. I think it’s telling Pritchett still here. Clearly he’s good on STs. I trust these guys a ton to make the right choices. I love defense and what the guys are doing.
I’ve had the same thought about Pritchett - next man up, or just a special teams guy who’s not starter quality for this defense? Similar question for Shaq and Quandre - weren’t needed much this year but do they still have starter-quality skills for next season? My guess is we need younger hitters.
FYI JS actually referred to those two teaching and coaching Woolen and the DBs this year. So, while they didn’t play, they did continue to contribute to the growth of the defense.
Yes, DYNASTY is all that will fill my thirst for dominance.
My feeling about Bryant’s interceptions is that he had two things going on: He was in the right place at the right time, and he has good hands. The first part is set up by scheme and is based on luck. The second part is based on skill, but lots of safeties at the NFL level have good hands.
He ran a 4:54, is 6’1”, and 193. 4th rounder. If I hit the gym a bit more, I could be 6”1”, 193. If Okada can hold down the fort, JS should be able to find guys with those measurables as cast offs or UDFAs from small colleges, and MM can have the time to coach them up. 31 other teams are bound by the cap and the 53. Keep an eye on waiver lists and practice squads.
I have nothing against Bryant, and I expect that he’ll find a team willing to pay well for some of that Macdonald Super Bowl insight. The Seahawks have higher priority positions to pay at the moment.
Okada and Coby are not interchangeable. Love can play both. Ty in a quick replace. But Ty is a SS. Coby is a Free Safety. Not replacement level. And we’re not taking Nick off ball. Doesn’t mean Coby returns but if he is gone, we have a big gap.
I think Mike Macdonald knows a thing or two about what roles players can fill, and which they can't. MM likes hybrid players that can do multiple things, which a number of Seahawk players can do. D-linemen playing nose to wide 9. Safeties that are also LB's and nickel backs. Strong safeties who also play FS. DE's who can play outside LB.
Coby is a solid safety, but I wouldn't say he's one of the top 2 or 3 priorities out of our FA's.....at least he isn't for me. No idea what JS or MM are thinking.
Which is basically what I said. But FS isn’t interchangeable. I’ve pointed out guys that can play different spots. Because of Rashid I tend to agree Coby’s spot isn’t in the top. Just that there isn’t a “generic” safety spot. Love is more a FS than Ty would be full time. And no one I’m sure wants to move Nick from his in the box type role at this stage of his career. Before the season I saw Coby as a top FA but now no. And anyone that prices himself out is not coming back. JS just said it in Indy. It’s about the 70. Indicating he’s not going to spend too much for a single guy. And he also said defense wins.
Kam Chancellor wasn't fast, either. Kyle Hamilton isn't fast. Fast ain't everything at safety and 4.53 is plenty at SS. I don't want to pay Coby, but it isn't because of his 40. He isn't worth field-tilting money because he doesn't really tilt the field.
Agreed. My point about Coby is that his size and speed aren’t exceptional. There’s a big population to draw from who are in that range. The challenge is to find a guy who knows ball, sees and reacts quickly, can tackle, and has good hands. I expect that JS can find that guy at a reasonable price.
This is very different from finding another Leonard Williams. There are few people on the planet with his size and raw athleticism to start with, let alone with his skills. Bryant isn’t a unicorn.
That said, if JS could find a unicorn for the Coby Bryant role, would that give MM even more scheme flexibility? Or does the Macdonald approach just need a guy who gets into the right position for the zone consistently, and who can tackle/cover as needed? Hyper speed at the position might be a luxury, rather than foundational.
Speed never hurt anyone at any position. Our last pro bowl FS was a 5.6 40 guy, so speed definitely isn't everything when it comes to the safety position, but it still doesn't hurt and in the case of Emmanwari, his speed allows him to make up distance at the last second, which is great.
That was going to be my point....Bryant is not super fast, especially for a safety. I would love a safety like Earl Thomas again in that I want that closing speed. I see CB arriving late on passes too often and I can't help but think 'a faster safety would have been there'. I know it is a nitpick but that's how I feel. CB is a great ballplayer but we can replace. I would focus on re-signing those that can't easily be replaced...ie JSN, K9 and RS...among others. Should be fun to see the roster come together this go around, it should really start to show us MM's "type" of player now that he's had more time and success with Johnny Value. Begaw!
Am impressed by this article, though i shouldn't be surprised by KenJoe 'n his Cool Take.
Some other writers will be saying that the Hawks have no option but to extend Mr. Cobe Bryant.
Seattle Seahawks 'n Seaside Joe ~ We All We Got ! We All We Need !
What vacation? You are a machine and I am one of the beneficiaries. Your daily record is amazing Ken. Thanks
All pre-written and ready to send he said thus he often paraphrases that news may have superseded what he writes. But I’m sure he’s checking in to not be out of date. Hopefully they are getting a lot of sites in.
Yes, I am here often and read the same thing, but I’m glad you’ve got my back
Just the fact he did what you’re describing makes him a legend in my eyes.
Ha!! There it is: "Nothing is ever set in Stone". Smiled immediately dude, recognize you a mile away (or 10,000 miles away).
To the point at hand: maybe you can do at some point a thought piece on depth. I think (but could be wrong on this) that Seattle had two VERY valuable things this year that we prob need again if we plan to double down on Super Bowls:
- we didn't have a terrible year injuries-wise
- we had above-average depth
That's the conundrum for me. You can let Coby go because you have a nearly equal guy behind him who's cheaper (Okada who I love) and MacDonald will drum up another Okada. Or do you also need to keep your bench in place. Virtually impossible for SB-winning teams bc their guys automatically get viewed as better/more valuable than before they won a SB (whether or not it's actually true). But I feel great about our safeties (don't consider Emmanwori a safety per se, is more of a jack of all trades) bc we have Love/Coby/Okada -- and Okada had to back up both of them when either of them went down. That's why it worked. Can we let that be broken up and survive a 20-game season?
The other thing for whenever you have the time would be cool to explore is the track record of post-SB winning players who leverage the SB win into fat contracts on their own team or elsewhere -- how many of those ended up being a good investment?
The issue Zez is Ty and Coby don’t play the same position. This is like saying that ET and Kam were interchangeable because they were “safeties”. No they are not “safeties”. It’s one gap that I see with SJ. He nails receivers well but sorry sometimes misses defense and STs specific positions. As a quick replacement, yes. Ty isnt a Free/deep safety just as Kam couldnt start over ET and ET wouldve been slaughtered at Strong Safety. Now, yes keeping Ty is definite. But if anything, it’s Love replacing Coby. Players have become heavily specialized. It also explains, in my opinion the higher miss rate. When you’re 10, 20 yards away flying at full speed, and miss, it’s a big miss. ET just had incredibly great timing. This doesn’t mean we resign Coby and agree that Coach Mac likely knows how to coach up DBs. But it’s like gunners, aka Dareke, they are specialists that are not just a “special team player”. Not all players have interchangeable positioning. Love is one that is.
I may not have the exact packages right, so may have misinterpreted his role, but yes while Love was out (much longer than Bryant who was only out for W17), Love is who Okada replaced, but I thought in the last two games he was replacing Bryant? Think he started alongside Love against Carolina, and then again against SF. And AFAIK he was just as effective in both free safety (Love) and strong safety (Bryant). That's why I'm thinking the three of them together are almost 4, given Okada can replace either.
But now that I really think about it (thanks for the push!) maybe my argument is more about how valuable Okada is due to his versatility, rather than whether or not we can find another good strong safety.
I am positive when Love was out Okada played his position. When Bryant was out, Love slid over to Bryant's position and Okada played Love's position.
I’ve looked this up multiple times now and just now went to Chat GPT for a more thorough review:
- Okada replaced Love at free safety when he was out, playing next to Bryant at strong safety. We all seem to be aligned on that
- but, W17 and W18 when Bryant was out, per all the sources I’ve found, Love stayed at free safety and Okada played in Bryant’s strong safety role.
Which would suggest Okada is super valuable at least in a MacDonald defense (where it doesn’t matter so much where a guy lines up pre-snap, so much interchangeability required), unbelievable he was an UDFA.
Yeah, there was a pre-game announcement right before the week 17 game when Bryant was out that stated Love would be playing Bryant's position and Okada would play Love's. I was very surprised by the news at the time but figured the reason was due to Love's experience playing both positions. I have dug into it as well and cannot find anything corroborating that so who knows, the announcement could have been erroneous.
Okada is listed as the backup spot on the Seahawks internet depth chart. for both safety spots. He was a great find.
Yes you’re correct he did do so when Coby was out. But that isn’t the season. Short term is what I said. Defense has specialist now. It’s why Ucheena or Hall are not “off ball” linebackers. No way Hall can replace EJ for example. FS and SS not same. Temporarily yes. Kam could’ve started at FS if ET was hurt. They wouldn’t do so likely because you hope to rarely need FS. And the Stone compare I think is unfair considering how atrocious Cincy defense was. Just saying from what I saw, Ty wouldn’t do nearly as well patrolling the back deep third of the field. Personal opinion and maybe you’re right. Doesn’t change fact we want him back but to me I think it’s Ty at Loves spot and Love at Coby. Of course now depth is serious concern, at the moment. :-)
*Bryant was out for W18 as well, apologies
Actually thought you said that. :-). But not to toot my own horn, but it’s also why I kept harping on Dareke being kept last year. He’s a ST gunner, like Ricardo Lockett. And man what he did in SB, alone, I was absolutely thrilled he was kept. Gunners don’t always make the plays. Generally a DB (Pritchett) or Receiver, and rarely get to play their “role”. But as seen this whole season, Dareke would make the play or cause the returner to shift inside, where the slower but gunning LB/TE backups were coming. A little like the long snapper, speciality players/roles in the game today. Rams McVay may have learned a valuable lesson not having a coach and players for those roles. Hopefully he hasn’t!!!!!
"Ha!! There it is: "Nothing is ever set in Stone"."
ahh, ... missed that, zezinhom, good catch.
Depth is great. The question the Hawks have to ask themselves is "what cost, depth?" Coby may well be a cap casualty as Joe suggests, unless his salary demand comes down significantly from what it appears to be. Okada is still pretty young, and among the best tacklers I've seen for the Hawks. And he's ridiculously cheap for next year.
For sure he is, fully agree. But then he's no longer depth. And that's the crapshoot: "we'll find another Okada" -- ergo AJ Finley, Maxem Hook, Jerrick Reed, D'Anthony Bell, even Diggsey, are any of those guys another Okada than do both free and strong safety? MacDonald obviously thinks not, bc he played Okada.
Jerrick Reed and D'Anthony Bell have both played well when they answered the call. I think Coby is eminently replaceable. I've never been a fan, though, he's always seemed to be a step late and looking for a hit or the ball instead of taking solid tackling.
Yeah, it's going to be about cost. Hawks want to extend arguably the best WR in the game and a whirling dervish as a CB they consider central to the team ethos. Tall order.
Yep.
I guess we're all in the same anxious position as all Super Bowl champions -- perhaps the one thing that helps us all rest easier is "In Schneider We Trust". Is there a better g.m. anywhere? Now out from under Pete's shadow and his Carrollisms, I think not.
Some of JS’s later drafts under Pete seemed uncharacteristic…I keep wondering how much Pete “put his thumb on the scale” that hurt our drafts (LJ Collier, Dee Eskridge, Malik McDowell, etc)….it seems like JS is hitting the lottery now almost every time, and especially with MM’s ability to develop talent and put it in position to succeed. I think Coby and Mafe are gone, and likely Riq too. The counter to that is we only have 4 draft picks, and we need another OL piece, so will be a balancing act, for sure….but as you say, “in JS we Trust”! Totally agree!!
Pete has teased writing a book about the LOB era one day and I hope that he does and goes in-depth. Pete and John seemed to be in perfect alignment early, like Mike and John are now. Like most of us, I would love to know who made which calls on each of the re-signings and trades and such. My gut tells me that Pete was the one who was too loyal and too inclined to extend his own on 2nd and 3rd contracts. But even if John was 50/50 in that, he has seen firsthand what happens when you tie your cap up in aging stars. There's not a GM in the league I trust more.
Pete won't go too in depth
The man hasn't got a mean bone in his body and won't say anything even remotely close to negative about even someones feelings towards another
I read win forever and while it's a good read, all of the years he was coach it was obvious he didn't self scout like a gm or MM type coach would
Pete said all the right things but didn't follow through
When Coach Mike says something you know he's going to change whatever it takes to accomplish that goal
Seems to me that CEO coaches are screwed long term as their OC's and DC's are a revolving door. And as you or someone said, Pete was too loyal to his coaches, and players for that matter.
That would be a great book!!, especially if Schneider then did his own "review" (which he won't of course).
I'm the most curious about how the Jamal Adams thing went down; then, the Russ decisions (draft, extend, trade); then the Jimmy Graham/Max Unger thing; and then the Harvin thing. Also how we ended up with Ifedi and LJ Collier as R1 picks; the Malik McDowell decision; and the whole Frank Clark dilemma. So many things I'd love to have the inside story on!!