The new news on Kupp's contract is it's much friendlier than most thought- Plus If he ( BIG IF) he remains reasonably healthy , Kupp is a smarter WR, Runs better routes and has better hands than DK- I know they are a different position WR's but I am all in on this and believe moving on from DK was definitely the right move!
If I’m reading DK’s contact terms right, it’s effectively a 2 yr deal for $60M guaranteed. $30M bonus plus salary of $5M + $25M guaranteed. Injury guarantee for another $20M, but I wouldn’t count that. Since the first year is the last year of his Seahawks contract @$24M/ year, and Pitt just guaranteed the $5M salary component (their only contractual obligation before the extension), DK effectively receives $19M from the ‘Hawks from prior payments - plus the $60M from Pitt. If they cut him after next year, before the 2027 roster bonus, DK has the $24M for 2025 under the old contract, plus new money of $55M for year one of the Pitt extension.
I suppose it depends on expectations. At this point in his career, Kupp is a useful #3. Whether or not DK is a #1, he’s a unicorn who can still impact games. There’s not a team in the league that would trade 2025 DK straight up for 2025 Kupp.
That being said, there’s an argument that Metcalf <= Kupp + #52 overall + money saved.
* Draft pick: By itself, the #52 has a 50/50 chance of being converted into a productive player. However, since Seattle already has a 2nd round pick, the chances of the 2nd round yielding a good player are now pretty good.
* Money saved: Projections of future savings don’t mean much to me because I have no idea what a Seattle extension would have looked like. However, there’s no doubt that the ‘Hawks aren’t going to spend $30M on Metcalf in 2025. Some of that is going to Kupp, some is going to DeMarcus Lawrence. (The rest, apparently, is going to “value” signings, required expenditures etc.)
In my mind, this all comes down to whether Kupp, Lawrence, and an unknown but probably good 2nd round pick are a good exchange for Metcalf. As much as I’m a DK fan, he wanted to be traded for reasons that seem more personal than financial, meaning that keeping him for another year would have meant keeping a guy who longer wanted to play for Seattle. It’s hard to see how this would be a good thing. In the end, Schneider did as well as anyone could expect. But let’s not kid ourselves: The ‘Hawks still need a WR.
I think Joe will be proven right on the guaranteed money. It'll be in $15-20M range. So it'll be another 1 year deal disguised as a 3 year deal, just like Darnold's. Totally affordable, even if he is somewhat diminished, and only plays 12 games this year.
I think this is more about who you're bringing into the building, and more specifically, who you're bringing into the WR room. He will make JSN better. Kupp watching film with JSN will have JSN seeing things in formations and pre-snap looks than JSN has probably ever understood. That will make him so much better. And by making him better, Kupp will get more opportunities himself as defenses adjust to JSN's success. And Kupp is a guy Kubiak will listen to when game planning and during the game.
There's more than one way to measure a players value.
NFL is a physically demanding league. Everyone's body eventually starts to deteriorate with the speed usually being the 1st thing to go. The guys that last have mastered route running, fundamentals of positioning, and thr mental aspects. Kupp is better than DK in all 3 of those areas. I agree that Kupp's 3 years in his 30's will probably look better than DK's.
I’m on the “questioning” side on this one, but I’ve come around on it bc of that 2nd rd pick which I was POSITIVE we’d never get for Metcalf. Still can’t believe it, but that does sway me.
And if Kupp plays in 13 games out of the 17, that’s probably enough to warrant the trade. Fingers crossed!
So we signed another aging slot receiver (insert pondering face emoji here)? River Cracraft the newest Hawk. I guess maybe there's a trend developing...
Special teamer, maybe. Need 90 guys for camp. Need to find 2 “receivers” to be kick returners with the new kickoff rules. We came into this offseason with no kick returner (need 2) and no punt returner.
I think the other relevant consideration that is often overlooked is the importance of these guys that have been around a bit in the locker room. Kupp, IMO, will be a far better mentor and example to the other players than DK given DK’s lack of discipline compared to Kupp’s work ethic, not to mention during-play body language and media communication impressions. How do you put a price tag on that side of the deal?
Also, now that DK has been paid to (near) the level he sees himself, I wonder if this will only increase his air of arrogance / self importance (Don’t get me wrong here. I like his confidence, and want to see him succeed, but there’s a fine line that I think he crossed at times that could become more prevalent if he gets any more full of himself).
Yeah, maybe he is. IDK. But as I stated above, his game day body language and lack of discipline isn’t great at times, and sends the wrong message. It’s ok to get frustrated at times, particularly when you’re playing at elite level and are competitive by nature, but for DK it’s too often. The real greats have more control and generally lead by example.
I good OC like Kubiak won't think of the new guys (Kupp & MVS) as replacements for the former guys (DK and Lockett). He'll leverage what they bring to the table. JSN's elite movement skills, Kupp's smarts, and MVS's speed. Factor in a hammer at TE (which I'm not sure they have yet, although Barner looks promising) and the two RB's we already have, that should be enough if the o-line gets whipped into shape. A big if, I know.
I was continuing on the theme of the post re. talking about comparing value between Kupp and DK rather than who’s taking over from who. However, I guess you could see Kupp as replacing Tyler in role. Not sure if that’s how JS and the coaching staff see it though. They will have some sort of plan and I suspect we’ll see a different style of Seahawks because of it.
I hadn’t realized Kupp’s ‘24 stats were so close to DK’s. I think Kupp’s game will stand up better to age than DK’s in that it never relied on pure speed. He’s a much better value and I don’t expect Kupp being upset to as the clear #2, and I think DK might have had problems with that.
I still think the best move the Hawks have made to improve the offense was letting Grubb go.
I like the context, thanks SSJ! I like to think of things in terms of age and dollars and this article incorporates a lot age/dollar related info. JS seems to be a value hound and this info kinda backs that up. I just like Kupp the person - he's rocking the Pearl Jam tee and talking about his love of grunge music during his press conference. Let's go Seattle!!
Likely probability of injury is pretty much the same for most players in a physically demanding game. Hell, DK or any one else can blow out their knee in the first game and be lost for the season. That's football. Every year my sons ask me who's going to the SB and I always tell them , " you tell me who's going to get injured and for how long and I'll give you my best guess."
All Cooper Kupp does is get open and catch every pass in his vacinity...no fumbles, no 15 yard penalties, no drama no huge contract. Kind of like Steve Largent. And a great mentor for the young guys. What's not to like about his signing?
The new news on Kupp's contract is it's much friendlier than most thought- Plus If he ( BIG IF) he remains reasonably healthy , Kupp is a smarter WR, Runs better routes and has better hands than DK- I know they are a different position WR's but I am all in on this and believe moving on from DK was definitely the right move!
If I’m reading DK’s contact terms right, it’s effectively a 2 yr deal for $60M guaranteed. $30M bonus plus salary of $5M + $25M guaranteed. Injury guarantee for another $20M, but I wouldn’t count that. Since the first year is the last year of his Seahawks contract @$24M/ year, and Pitt just guaranteed the $5M salary component (their only contractual obligation before the extension), DK effectively receives $19M from the ‘Hawks from prior payments - plus the $60M from Pitt. If they cut him after next year, before the 2027 roster bonus, DK has the $24M for 2025 under the old contract, plus new money of $55M for year one of the Pitt extension.
Do I have that right?
These contracts make my head hurt.......
I suppose it depends on expectations. At this point in his career, Kupp is a useful #3. Whether or not DK is a #1, he’s a unicorn who can still impact games. There’s not a team in the league that would trade 2025 DK straight up for 2025 Kupp.
That being said, there’s an argument that Metcalf <= Kupp + #52 overall + money saved.
* Draft pick: By itself, the #52 has a 50/50 chance of being converted into a productive player. However, since Seattle already has a 2nd round pick, the chances of the 2nd round yielding a good player are now pretty good.
* Money saved: Projections of future savings don’t mean much to me because I have no idea what a Seattle extension would have looked like. However, there’s no doubt that the ‘Hawks aren’t going to spend $30M on Metcalf in 2025. Some of that is going to Kupp, some is going to DeMarcus Lawrence. (The rest, apparently, is going to “value” signings, required expenditures etc.)
In my mind, this all comes down to whether Kupp, Lawrence, and an unknown but probably good 2nd round pick are a good exchange for Metcalf. As much as I’m a DK fan, he wanted to be traded for reasons that seem more personal than financial, meaning that keeping him for another year would have meant keeping a guy who longer wanted to play for Seattle. It’s hard to see how this would be a good thing. In the end, Schneider did as well as anyone could expect. But let’s not kid ourselves: The ‘Hawks still need a WR.
I think Joe will be proven right on the guaranteed money. It'll be in $15-20M range. So it'll be another 1 year deal disguised as a 3 year deal, just like Darnold's. Totally affordable, even if he is somewhat diminished, and only plays 12 games this year.
I think this is more about who you're bringing into the building, and more specifically, who you're bringing into the WR room. He will make JSN better. Kupp watching film with JSN will have JSN seeing things in formations and pre-snap looks than JSN has probably ever understood. That will make him so much better. And by making him better, Kupp will get more opportunities himself as defenses adjust to JSN's success. And Kupp is a guy Kubiak will listen to when game planning and during the game.
There's more than one way to measure a players value.
NFL is a physically demanding league. Everyone's body eventually starts to deteriorate with the speed usually being the 1st thing to go. The guys that last have mastered route running, fundamentals of positioning, and thr mental aspects. Kupp is better than DK in all 3 of those areas. I agree that Kupp's 3 years in his 30's will probably look better than DK's.
Why slow receiver like Largent lasted so long.
I’m on the “questioning” side on this one, but I’ve come around on it bc of that 2nd rd pick which I was POSITIVE we’d never get for Metcalf. Still can’t believe it, but that does sway me.
And if Kupp plays in 13 games out of the 17, that’s probably enough to warrant the trade. Fingers crossed!
So we signed another aging slot receiver (insert pondering face emoji here)? River Cracraft the newest Hawk. I guess maybe there's a trend developing...
Special teamer, maybe. Need 90 guys for camp. Need to find 2 “receivers” to be kick returners with the new kickoff rules. We came into this offseason with no kick returner (need 2) and no punt returner.
He's here for special teams
He won't count against the CAP. Only the first 51 contracts count against the cap. I doubt he is on the team after cut down to 53 players.
Are the numbers on OTC regarding Geno's Raider deal correct? 16 mil bonus, 14.8 mil salary, ZERO dead money and 31 mil cap savings?!?
Isn’t that the Seahawks’ contract? Don’t recall having seen a new one yet.
I bet you're right, it's just a place holder.
I think the other relevant consideration that is often overlooked is the importance of these guys that have been around a bit in the locker room. Kupp, IMO, will be a far better mentor and example to the other players than DK given DK’s lack of discipline compared to Kupp’s work ethic, not to mention during-play body language and media communication impressions. How do you put a price tag on that side of the deal?
Also, now that DK has been paid to (near) the level he sees himself, I wonder if this will only increase his air of arrogance / self importance (Don’t get me wrong here. I like his confidence, and want to see him succeed, but there’s a fine line that I think he crossed at times that could become more prevalent if he gets any more full of himself).
By any account I’ve read, DK is a respected guy in the locker room.
Yeah, maybe he is. IDK. But as I stated above, his game day body language and lack of discipline isn’t great at times, and sends the wrong message. It’s ok to get frustrated at times, particularly when you’re playing at elite level and are competitive by nature, but for DK it’s too often. The real greats have more control and generally lead by example.
Is Kupp really the Lockett replacement? And we’re hoping to draft a new DK? Or do I have this wrong…
I good OC like Kubiak won't think of the new guys (Kupp & MVS) as replacements for the former guys (DK and Lockett). He'll leverage what they bring to the table. JSN's elite movement skills, Kupp's smarts, and MVS's speed. Factor in a hammer at TE (which I'm not sure they have yet, although Barner looks promising) and the two RB's we already have, that should be enough if the o-line gets whipped into shape. A big if, I know.
I was continuing on the theme of the post re. talking about comparing value between Kupp and DK rather than who’s taking over from who. However, I guess you could see Kupp as replacing Tyler in role. Not sure if that’s how JS and the coaching staff see it though. They will have some sort of plan and I suspect we’ll see a different style of Seahawks because of it.
I will add one more positive if parenthetical (and even theoretical) point re CK.
If you were to ask JSN which two NFL receivers he would want early in his career as peer coaches, I'm willing to gamble he would pick TL and CK.
(Theme song: 🎵 "Lucky Man" - Emerson Lake & Palmer)
Always hope that what you spend is at least partially an investment too.
I’d call that a bargain, the best he’s ever had!
Any post with an ELP tie-in has to get a triple Like!
That’s old school and one of oddest tie-in’s ever. So agreed. Triple like.
For quite a while the SF 49ers fans were wringing their hands over losing Brandon Aiyuk before he re-signed with them. Ahh, No take-backs.
"Less than a year ago, the 49ers paid Brandon Aiyuk $30 million per season and $76 million guaranteed. Now they’re trying to get rid of him."
I hadn’t realized Kupp’s ‘24 stats were so close to DK’s. I think Kupp’s game will stand up better to age than DK’s in that it never relied on pure speed. He’s a much better value and I don’t expect Kupp being upset to as the clear #2, and I think DK might have had problems with that.
I still think the best move the Hawks have made to improve the offense was letting Grubb go.
One other 2024 comparable:
Metcalf OC: Ryan Grubb
Kupp OC: Sean McVay
I like the context, thanks SSJ! I like to think of things in terms of age and dollars and this article incorporates a lot age/dollar related info. JS seems to be a value hound and this info kinda backs that up. I just like Kupp the person - he's rocking the Pearl Jam tee and talking about his love of grunge music during his press conference. Let's go Seattle!!
Likely probability of injury is pretty much the same for most players in a physically demanding game. Hell, DK or any one else can blow out their knee in the first game and be lost for the season. That's football. Every year my sons ask me who's going to the SB and I always tell them , " you tell me who's going to get injured and for how long and I'll give you my best guess."
All Cooper Kupp does is get open and catch every pass in his vacinity...no fumbles, no 15 yard penalties, no drama no huge contract. Kind of like Steve Largent. And a great mentor for the young guys. What's not to like about his signing?
Yeppers, Nicholas. Cool Hand Kupp.
Stats since 2020:
DK Metcalf - 24 penalties for a total of 269 yards. 11.2 yards per penalty.
Cooper Kupp - 2 penalties for a total of 15 yards. 7.5 yards per penalty.
DK Metcalf was tied for most penalties on the team in 2022 with 7.
Both of Kupp's penalties were in 2023.
The mental discipline is pretty glaring. Kupp has it, Metcalf does not. That and the catch rate discrepancy is a big deal to me.
I was already sold. I like DK, and think he will do fine in Pittsburg, but all things considered, I'll take Kupp, the draft pick, and the saved money.
Go Hawks.