Love all the insight here. One thing about Spoon, you don't need to do all that research to know he's a factor out there. You feel the man. The research, to me, just confirms everything you feel.
He should take over the DB room this year, and if he does, look out. He couldn't do that as a rookie, but with Diggs and Jamal gone, it should be his. He'll have that group eating raw meat.
Great article Ken.Best content for the price anywhere! I wish I had the juice to pay you $100 a month. If I win the lottery, I will give you a bit. Thanks again. Love me some Spoon!!
I think the only question with Spoon is can he stay healthy. Most of the time I think injuries are fairly random. But with spoon at his size playing physical and inside? I hope he can stay healthy.
One of the best aspects of his game I saw was attacking the QB. Bringing in Mike Mac and his style of defense couldn’t be a better fit.
Very excited to see how the defense uses him and my expectations are sky high for him. Think he is a great fit and will have a huge year
That long look at Witherspoon's past season was really revealing. So many plays where he just got sudden and made the play. Quick twitch response and recovery and not afraid of contact. He is a defensive change agent. If all we mostly do next season is make the Hawks a killer defense, I'm in. I think it's going to happen.
Apart from the elite athleticism, ferocity and hard work that have helped bring him to this point, what I see is a truly gifted human being. I think people are born with unusual potential for spatial awareness, peripheral vision and reflexes that are then honed in life, to the level we consistently see with him.
I love Spoon!!! That guy is so freggin' special. Spoon brings that energy no one else can - except maybe like Troy Polamalu used to do. I can't wait to see how MM uses him. Spoon's gonna be a dominant force for years to come, so glad we got him. The way Spoon sees and plays the field makes him almost a 'perfect' player in the modern pass-happy NFL.
Ok i'll try not go on and on about Referees... buuuut.... i'm a Ref nerd and i get way too into referees and rules in sports, so i'm going to keep trying to help fans understand a bit more about that side and what is going on with penalties etc (not a qualified American Football ref, but former soccer Ref and currently training for Rugby Union - if i lived in the US i'd be out there Friday nights doing HS games for sure).
Spoon and "ticky-tacky" penalties. Firstly, I agree with A to Z, it's not an issue for Spoon. Yep that call against the Panthers is super soft. The Lions call is i think fair, but comes with playing football, every DB gives up one of those a year basically, nothing Spoon can or should do to avoid this kind of play and penalty. Play vs Nacua is a bad call, but i'm going to come back to this. Then suplex is a slam dunk call, and that's the one really bad penalty in my books, it's always going to be called, always going to get you fined, and there is no need to do it.
Does Spoon get penalised more for his style of play? No. Is Spoon being high in penalty count an issue no. I'm frankly shocked that getting 5 calls against you ranks you so high on the list. For all the regular calls of "ref ball" it's kind of shocking that 5 penalties makes you a relative league leader when you consider he player 883 snaps. Unfortunately the NFL rule book is a horror show with shockingly poor definitions and clarifications around player contact away from the line of scrimmage.
The Nacua example above (said i'm come back to it) is classic for this. Spoon has hands, plural up on Nacua through most of the route. We see this as normal, because it does happen on the majority of plays. This is hard to do without frame-by-framing this for you all to see, but go look at the clip and imagine what the sideline ref is seeing. He'll see flashes of hands on the receiver, through two other pairs of battling players, at the start of the route. But it's not clear, and at this stage it's the back line refs zone to monitor and call. But that flash is in the sideline refs mind. Does the sideline ref then get a clear view of the very minor contact between Diggs and Nacua? No. What he does see are Spoons hands on and off Nacua, so when he goes to ground the image presented to the ref is one of DPI.
Onto the rule book, where DPI is an entire section of almost 1000 words - it's a goddamn mess! Whilst there is a clear note that "If there is any question whether player contact is incidental, the ruling should be no interference." the rule book does nothing to ever define what incidental is. It's a purely subjective judgement. This is why i say look at where the Ref is and what they will see through the play. Repeated use of hands, close proximity, using the body to crowd the receiver, ultimately leading to the receiver going down. We know from multiple camera angles that is not the whole story, but the Refs don't have multiple angles (lets not get into whether DPI should be reviewable or challengable - that's a different discussion).
Anyway rambling onwards here for not much reason than i've just spent 20mins watching 8 seconds of tape over-and-over-and-over with my downloaded copy of the NFL Rulebook side-by-side. Christ i'm a Ref nerd.... Spoon, if he needs to change anything, is maybe try to keep his hands off receivers a little more through the play. But honestly he plays well and doesn't get grabby like some CB's do, he knows he's good enough. I want him to keep it up, just cut out the Suplex's. He plays like he is and Refs will quickly view him as a clean CB and reputation does matter.
Also, even if you're not a Ref nerd like me, please take some time to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiaaLQSXL9E ! I love videos like this which show the reality of Refereeing. It is a full time occupation, they work just as hard as anyone else in the NFL, are normal humans, and we need to be thankful for how good they really are.
Thanks for sharing this video. Very interesting and informative. I’ll appreciate what a difficult job the refs have at the next game I go to, but I’ll probably boo them at least once anyway. :)
I didn't have a problem with the suplex. His options were have tackle broken or lift man off the ground. I don't think that should be a penalty. He didn't go in and immediately pick the dude up--that I would have a problem with--leverage just worked out that way.
The issue stems from player safety. Spoons in that move has no control on bringing the opponent down safely. If Spoons lifts then lowers the WR down in front or sideways as a deliberate motion, all good. But going over backwards is a big no no.
It's a quick way to get Refs to see you as dangerous. Then Spoon makes a hit that's maybe a touch high, flag - targeting. Spoons makes contact marginally early, flag - hitting a defenceless player.
I love and support physicality. But he has to keep it more visibly clean than a suplex. Opponents will quickly say to Refs "hey, this guy is dangerous", refs will think it themselves.
Spoons has the talent and skills to make that tackle clean, he has the strength to hold for a few moments for his teammates to get over and cover in case of a break. I just want him, and the coaches, to work on those elements over the instinctual moves.
Love that incite KHammarling. Refs do get criticised more than they should IMO (& I have been guilty of it over the years. You gotta blame someone, right? 😁).
Also i did watch the whole A to Z video and not just the penalty segment. I also thank you SSJ for sharing and linking stuff like this, because i always enjoy it and would never otherwise find these videos. Spoon had a great Rookie season, i don't know about others, but honestly i almost forgot he was a rookie because he was just so good, so consistently. What a great piece to have, and i'm so excited to see what the new coaches can do with all the young talent on hand from the last three drafts (and udfa's and other aquistions). Proper training camp can't come quick enough!
Spot on, Bro. Being a kid who also wind-milled his arms when he ran, I've paid extra attention to Spoon doing so. I felt it made me faster (Ha!) and certainly helped me with balance issues. Guys would rib the hell out of me, but like Spoon, I couldn't care less. Performance is all that matters. I suspect my eyes will be following him on every play our Defense renders, which will be a ton if MM has him in the Slot.
It would be nice to have the comfort of a stalwart defense to rely on again.
Love all the insight here. One thing about Spoon, you don't need to do all that research to know he's a factor out there. You feel the man. The research, to me, just confirms everything you feel.
He should take over the DB room this year, and if he does, look out. He couldn't do that as a rookie, but with Diggs and Jamal gone, it should be his. He'll have that group eating raw meat.
That play against the 49ers, and watching his violent hands on his pass rush reps, mmm hmm, can't wait to see more Spoon.
That was a really good video.
Great article Ken.Best content for the price anywhere! I wish I had the juice to pay you $100 a month. If I win the lottery, I will give you a bit. Thanks again. Love me some Spoon!!
Yes to all of this article.
I think the only question with Spoon is can he stay healthy. Most of the time I think injuries are fairly random. But with spoon at his size playing physical and inside? I hope he can stay healthy.
One of the best aspects of his game I saw was attacking the QB. Bringing in Mike Mac and his style of defense couldn’t be a better fit.
Very excited to see how the defense uses him and my expectations are sky high for him. Think he is a great fit and will have a huge year
That long look at Witherspoon's past season was really revealing. So many plays where he just got sudden and made the play. Quick twitch response and recovery and not afraid of contact. He is a defensive change agent. If all we mostly do next season is make the Hawks a killer defense, I'm in. I think it's going to happen.
Apart from the elite athleticism, ferocity and hard work that have helped bring him to this point, what I see is a truly gifted human being. I think people are born with unusual potential for spatial awareness, peripheral vision and reflexes that are then honed in life, to the level we consistently see with him.
I love Spoon!!! That guy is so freggin' special. Spoon brings that energy no one else can - except maybe like Troy Polamalu used to do. I can't wait to see how MM uses him. Spoon's gonna be a dominant force for years to come, so glad we got him. The way Spoon sees and plays the field makes him almost a 'perfect' player in the modern pass-happy NFL.
Ok i'll try not go on and on about Referees... buuuut.... i'm a Ref nerd and i get way too into referees and rules in sports, so i'm going to keep trying to help fans understand a bit more about that side and what is going on with penalties etc (not a qualified American Football ref, but former soccer Ref and currently training for Rugby Union - if i lived in the US i'd be out there Friday nights doing HS games for sure).
Spoon and "ticky-tacky" penalties. Firstly, I agree with A to Z, it's not an issue for Spoon. Yep that call against the Panthers is super soft. The Lions call is i think fair, but comes with playing football, every DB gives up one of those a year basically, nothing Spoon can or should do to avoid this kind of play and penalty. Play vs Nacua is a bad call, but i'm going to come back to this. Then suplex is a slam dunk call, and that's the one really bad penalty in my books, it's always going to be called, always going to get you fined, and there is no need to do it.
Does Spoon get penalised more for his style of play? No. Is Spoon being high in penalty count an issue no. I'm frankly shocked that getting 5 calls against you ranks you so high on the list. For all the regular calls of "ref ball" it's kind of shocking that 5 penalties makes you a relative league leader when you consider he player 883 snaps. Unfortunately the NFL rule book is a horror show with shockingly poor definitions and clarifications around player contact away from the line of scrimmage.
The Nacua example above (said i'm come back to it) is classic for this. Spoon has hands, plural up on Nacua through most of the route. We see this as normal, because it does happen on the majority of plays. This is hard to do without frame-by-framing this for you all to see, but go look at the clip and imagine what the sideline ref is seeing. He'll see flashes of hands on the receiver, through two other pairs of battling players, at the start of the route. But it's not clear, and at this stage it's the back line refs zone to monitor and call. But that flash is in the sideline refs mind. Does the sideline ref then get a clear view of the very minor contact between Diggs and Nacua? No. What he does see are Spoons hands on and off Nacua, so when he goes to ground the image presented to the ref is one of DPI.
Onto the rule book, where DPI is an entire section of almost 1000 words - it's a goddamn mess! Whilst there is a clear note that "If there is any question whether player contact is incidental, the ruling should be no interference." the rule book does nothing to ever define what incidental is. It's a purely subjective judgement. This is why i say look at where the Ref is and what they will see through the play. Repeated use of hands, close proximity, using the body to crowd the receiver, ultimately leading to the receiver going down. We know from multiple camera angles that is not the whole story, but the Refs don't have multiple angles (lets not get into whether DPI should be reviewable or challengable - that's a different discussion).
Anyway rambling onwards here for not much reason than i've just spent 20mins watching 8 seconds of tape over-and-over-and-over with my downloaded copy of the NFL Rulebook side-by-side. Christ i'm a Ref nerd.... Spoon, if he needs to change anything, is maybe try to keep his hands off receivers a little more through the play. But honestly he plays well and doesn't get grabby like some CB's do, he knows he's good enough. I want him to keep it up, just cut out the Suplex's. He plays like he is and Refs will quickly view him as a clean CB and reputation does matter.
Also, even if you're not a Ref nerd like me, please take some time to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiaaLQSXL9E ! I love videos like this which show the reality of Refereeing. It is a full time occupation, they work just as hard as anyone else in the NFL, are normal humans, and we need to be thankful for how good they really are.
Thanks for sharing this video. Very interesting and informative. I’ll appreciate what a difficult job the refs have at the next game I go to, but I’ll probably boo them at least once anyway. :)
I didn't have a problem with the suplex. His options were have tackle broken or lift man off the ground. I don't think that should be a penalty. He didn't go in and immediately pick the dude up--that I would have a problem with--leverage just worked out that way.
The issue stems from player safety. Spoons in that move has no control on bringing the opponent down safely. If Spoons lifts then lowers the WR down in front or sideways as a deliberate motion, all good. But going over backwards is a big no no.
It's a quick way to get Refs to see you as dangerous. Then Spoon makes a hit that's maybe a touch high, flag - targeting. Spoons makes contact marginally early, flag - hitting a defenceless player.
I love and support physicality. But he has to keep it more visibly clean than a suplex. Opponents will quickly say to Refs "hey, this guy is dangerous", refs will think it themselves.
Spoons has the talent and skills to make that tackle clean, he has the strength to hold for a few moments for his teammates to get over and cover in case of a break. I just want him, and the coaches, to work on those elements over the instinctual moves.
I love the added info. I learn so much here! Thanks!
They need to work full time for just the NFL. Having that job as a second job is ridiculous
Love that incite KHammarling. Refs do get criticised more than they should IMO (& I have been guilty of it over the years. You gotta blame someone, right? 😁).
Also i did watch the whole A to Z video and not just the penalty segment. I also thank you SSJ for sharing and linking stuff like this, because i always enjoy it and would never otherwise find these videos. Spoon had a great Rookie season, i don't know about others, but honestly i almost forgot he was a rookie because he was just so good, so consistently. What a great piece to have, and i'm so excited to see what the new coaches can do with all the young talent on hand from the last three drafts (and udfa's and other aquistions). Proper training camp can't come quick enough!
Spot on, Bro. Being a kid who also wind-milled his arms when he ran, I've paid extra attention to Spoon doing so. I felt it made me faster (Ha!) and certainly helped me with balance issues. Guys would rib the hell out of me, but like Spoon, I couldn't care less. Performance is all that matters. I suspect my eyes will be following him on every play our Defense renders, which will be a ton if MM has him in the Slot.
Liked" for the proper use of "couldn't care less".