Well, perhaps Seattle firing Pete Carrol and the Patriots firing Bill Bellichik indirectly influenced Baltimore to fire John Harbaugh, but what about the Eagles firing Andy Reid? That is also an influence. Possibly to both Seattle and New England when they made their head coaching moves.
Now, if you please. Should Klinf Kubiak take a head coaching position somewhere, what OCs' are on the top of your list? Please include Jeff Kingsbury and Mike Macdonald in your list.
Once again, I don’t think Kubiak is a huge loss. Our offence is our weakest part of the team (though has been improving over time). I trust MM & JS enough to know they’ll find a suitable replacement that will continue that improvement. All the hand wringing is baffling me. 🤷♂️
The Ravens have nobody to blame but themselves. Mike MacDonald was right there 2 years ago. They'd known him for years, and they saw what he did in Michigan. The time was right then to say, you're our next Head Coach. Whether in a year, or two years, you're our next h/c. But they let him walk, and have to watch him thrive 4 timezones away.
The Ravens got Macdonald hired (but crushing the Seahawks that year) more than the Seahawks got Harbough fired.
I don't know about "more," but quite poosibly true. In any event, it played a big part. Schneider is on record saying how impressed he was with MacDonald's defense when it smothered the Hawks.
Ben Johnson immediately turning the Bears into the two seed (no matter how flukey) and the Lions going from #1 to out of the playoffs has to have contributed to this phenomenon as well.
I wonder if the non-play calling coaches days are numbered? We saw the problem when Pete was coach. Since MM is calling the defensive plays, losing our DC is not the big problem it would be if Durde was calling the defensive plays and then was hired away. However, we ARE faced with the likelyhood of losing KK, so the problem is only halved if your coach calls plays.
How could this problem be resolved? One way is a way I have called for over the last decade, and that is to develop a new coach or two that is/are dedicated to play calling exclusively. Then if your OC is poached, your play caller on offense remains with the team. If a Pete type coach wants to avoid the issure, he would need to have both an offensive play caller and a defensive play caller.
As to loss of Co-ordinators, I don’t think it is likely that Durde gets a HC job, but with this many openings, anything is possible.
Kubiak however, I believe is a different story.
One or more teams will likely offer him a HC job.
The question is: will it be a good job like the Ravens, or a bad job like the Raiders or Browns, or a mediocre job like the Dolphins or Falcons?
If he is offered a good job he should and would probably take it.
If it is a bad job, maybe not.
Loss of Durde would likely be easy to overcome, as Coach Mc is the defensive genius.
Loss of Kubiak (and maybe John Benton and others who might follow Kubiak) would be more disruptive.
The improvements in our Offense and the Offensive line this year have been game changers. Yes, the defense is elite, but the Seahawks are the most complete team in the NFL this year and can beat you with Defense, Offense and Special Teams.
Keeping the 49ers Offense off the field for 38 minutes while Seattle ran the ball down their throats was magnificent to watch!
I do think that with the amount of upheaval in coaching this year there would be very good Offensive Coordinators (Monken/ Ravens, McDaniel or his staff/ Dolphins, LaFleur or staff/ Packers, etc) available.
I do believe that Schneider/ McDonald are so clear on how they want the Offense to complement the Defense, they will find a good replacement, but the transition may be a little “bumpy”.
We are very fortunate to have Schneider/ McDonald leading the team and Ownership that does not meddle!
I blame stupid ownership for bad teams more than I blame HCs. OCs or DCs. As long as Jerry Jones ( and some others ) are Jerry Jones owner, Jerry Jones GM , and Jerry Jones HC ,the Cowboys are screwed ! It wasn't the OC who gave Dak Prescott ( who has never won a play off game) $ 60 million! We are very lucky to have Jodie Allen as owner and JS as GM. I think she OKed all the changes JS made including firing Pete and dumping the under appreciated Geno! I hope she keeps the Hawks .
As far as finding a new OC, I have complete faith that MM and JS will find the right guy.
The coaching changes are fascinating. Is it a “grass isn’t always greener” or is it a bold move to get better, like the Hawks.
My opinion is that it depends. Firing Pete Carroll worked out extremely well. But I think that firing Pete Carroll just to fire him would’ve been a bad plan. Moving to a coach like Dan Quinn would not have been great, IMO. But moving to a coach like MM is worth the move.
So does Baltimore have a coach in their cross hairs that they think could be worth the risk? Then I like it. But if they are moving on from Harbaugh just to move to say Tomlin. That just wouldn’t make much sense to me.
Also, the NFL is so funny. Guy gets fired and immediately becomes the number 1 target for a bunch of franchises.
Pretty funny. Excited to see how it all goes down.
I will be looking to fade any college coaches. I don’t think Kingsbury will work. I’m hoping the Hawks look inward and keep continuity rather than someone like McDaniel
I like your perspective. It’s easy to be reactive and call for someone’s head. It’s hard to set a new strategy and do the work to find a better replacement who fits the strategy.
It’s also harder for the strategy types to get emotional clicks than it is for the reactionaries.
That is certainly not the case in any job i have ever held. If you suck bad enough to get fired you have a hard time getting a job in the same position again. Not the NFL. I am reminded of Jeff Fisher. His lifetime record is right around 500 but had a crazy long career.
Seems like Andy Reid is more like Pete Carroll and John Harbaugh: After a run of sustained success, his Eagles teams were eliminated in the WC round two years in a row and went 12-20 the next two seasons. The Eagles moved on from Reid and—after taking a wrong turn with Chip Kelly—have been to three of the last eight SBs, winning two of them (against Belichek and Reid). While Reid may be a great play caller, his success since leaving Philadelphia is mostly due to Patrick Mahomes.
Absolutely gm’s are noticing Seattle, no doubt. Would just say there was more to it than just “successful-coach-for-a-decade+” vs new young hot shot:
- Seattle has had four consecutive Grade A drafts and has the 3rd youngest team in the NFL. Moldable clay. Not the same as trying to turn around a franchise with established stars and especially dealing with an immovable QB who’s influencing decisions — like Jackson or Allen if Buffalo makes a move.
- Seattle creates tons of cap space without weakening the team, brought in several players who improved the team and has the ability to bring in several more. Different from taking over a team where you’re going to be forced to peel off talent and hope you find cheaper replacements….the Ravens do have Jackson and Henry and several other pieces but VERY different dynamics than the team MacDonald inherited. The Ravens HC is going to be charged with making it work with them, or get fired like Harbaugh. Whereas Macdonald had free rein to dump his QB, his offensive star and his OC after just a year…
- ….which brings me to the third and fourth pieces of the puzzle which are John Schneider and Jody Allen. Compare that duo to Raiders’ Spytek and Davis Jr (with Brady looking over their shoulders) at the Raiders, or Mougey and Woody Johnson with the Jets and tell me they’re just a head coach away?
- and lastly, how many true geniuses are there out there? McVey, Macdonald, Campbell and Vrabel in their ways, maybe Ben Johnson (but I’m predicting here and now he’s going to wear thin soon), maybe Liam Cohen? McDonald was thought to be (and looked to be, early days) one in Miami. But, are truly off the charts young coaches as rare as true franchise QB, no more than 6-7 at any one time? Meaning 7 or 8 HC openings are not going to work out any more than drafting 7 or 8 QB’s in any one draft class.
- and BEWARE of handing the keys of your franchise over to your star QB (which is what Baltimore just did). They can grow petulant, distant, pouting, pointing fingers etc and stronger than the HC. We in Seattle know what that feels like and Denver bet the farm on the same thing (Adam Gase never stood a chance).
I don’t know man, the Carroll firing feels so much different than the Harbaugh firing. Seattle prob is to blame, but a lot more to it than just coach vs coach.
Nice analysis...so many variables determine the success of a team. As you illustrate so well, a successful "team" includes more than 70 dudes in helmets. We are so fortunate to have the team we have, from Jody, Schneider, coaches and the names we don't know, scouting for players, booking travel, dealing with gear or washing towels. The component parts have to fit. It takes a village to raise a Champion.
Moving with the times, SSJ. Good on ya. I suspect there are very viable new tools finding ways to assist the rapid fire decision-making during live game situations. Paying huge amounts of money to those who can't grasp it all may have something to do with this unprecedented turnover among HCs. Something is afoot and I'll plant my flag in this direction. It took a genius accountant to translate his facts and figures into real-world action with Money Ball. It is not much of a leap to suspect rabid football fans among computer engineers have produced A.I. algorithms aimed directly at fast live decisions affecting outcomes. JS would immediately see the upside and convey that to Mike. No doubt it is far from perfection, but those insisting on Tradition, scoffing at the revolution coming would be a huge hindrance. Dunno. Just saying...
Well, perhaps Seattle firing Pete Carrol and the Patriots firing Bill Bellichik indirectly influenced Baltimore to fire John Harbaugh, but what about the Eagles firing Andy Reid? That is also an influence. Possibly to both Seattle and New England when they made their head coaching moves.
Now, if you please. Should Klinf Kubiak take a head coaching position somewhere, what OCs' are on the top of your list? Please include Jeff Kingsbury and Mike Macdonald in your list.
Mike McDaniel, you mean? Mike Macdonald already has a job...
Once again, I don’t think Kubiak is a huge loss. Our offence is our weakest part of the team (though has been improving over time). I trust MM & JS enough to know they’ll find a suitable replacement that will continue that improvement. All the hand wringing is baffling me. 🤷♂️
It's crazier that Calais Campbell is still in the league. That dude is approaching HOF territory JUST for longevity!
The Ravens have nobody to blame but themselves. Mike MacDonald was right there 2 years ago. They'd known him for years, and they saw what he did in Michigan. The time was right then to say, you're our next Head Coach. Whether in a year, or two years, you're our next h/c. But they let him walk, and have to watch him thrive 4 timezones away.
The Ravens got Macdonald hired (but crushing the Seahawks that year) more than the Seahawks got Harbough fired.
I don't know about "more," but quite poosibly true. In any event, it played a big part. Schneider is on record saying how impressed he was with MacDonald's defense when it smothered the Hawks.
Ben Johnson immediately turning the Bears into the two seed (no matter how flukey) and the Lions going from #1 to out of the playoffs has to have contributed to this phenomenon as well.
I wonder if the non-play calling coaches days are numbered? We saw the problem when Pete was coach. Since MM is calling the defensive plays, losing our DC is not the big problem it would be if Durde was calling the defensive plays and then was hired away. However, we ARE faced with the likelyhood of losing KK, so the problem is only halved if your coach calls plays.
How could this problem be resolved? One way is a way I have called for over the last decade, and that is to develop a new coach or two that is/are dedicated to play calling exclusively. Then if your OC is poached, your play caller on offense remains with the team. If a Pete type coach wants to avoid the issure, he would need to have both an offensive play caller and a defensive play caller.
It's an interesting dilemma.
As to loss of Co-ordinators, I don’t think it is likely that Durde gets a HC job, but with this many openings, anything is possible.
Kubiak however, I believe is a different story.
One or more teams will likely offer him a HC job.
The question is: will it be a good job like the Ravens, or a bad job like the Raiders or Browns, or a mediocre job like the Dolphins or Falcons?
If he is offered a good job he should and would probably take it.
If it is a bad job, maybe not.
Loss of Durde would likely be easy to overcome, as Coach Mc is the defensive genius.
Loss of Kubiak (and maybe John Benton and others who might follow Kubiak) would be more disruptive.
The improvements in our Offense and the Offensive line this year have been game changers. Yes, the defense is elite, but the Seahawks are the most complete team in the NFL this year and can beat you with Defense, Offense and Special Teams.
Keeping the 49ers Offense off the field for 38 minutes while Seattle ran the ball down their throats was magnificent to watch!
I do think that with the amount of upheaval in coaching this year there would be very good Offensive Coordinators (Monken/ Ravens, McDaniel or his staff/ Dolphins, LaFleur or staff/ Packers, etc) available.
I do believe that Schneider/ McDonald are so clear on how they want the Offense to complement the Defense, they will find a good replacement, but the transition may be a little “bumpy”.
We are very fortunate to have Schneider/ McDonald leading the team and Ownership that does not meddle!
I blame stupid ownership for bad teams more than I blame HCs. OCs or DCs. As long as Jerry Jones ( and some others ) are Jerry Jones owner, Jerry Jones GM , and Jerry Jones HC ,the Cowboys are screwed ! It wasn't the OC who gave Dak Prescott ( who has never won a play off game) $ 60 million! We are very lucky to have Jodie Allen as owner and JS as GM. I think she OKed all the changes JS made including firing Pete and dumping the under appreciated Geno! I hope she keeps the Hawks .
As far as finding a new OC, I have complete faith that MM and JS will find the right guy.
Agree. At least five of the HC openings come with ownership problems, too.
NFL entertainment machine never stops turning!
The coaching changes are fascinating. Is it a “grass isn’t always greener” or is it a bold move to get better, like the Hawks.
My opinion is that it depends. Firing Pete Carroll worked out extremely well. But I think that firing Pete Carroll just to fire him would’ve been a bad plan. Moving to a coach like Dan Quinn would not have been great, IMO. But moving to a coach like MM is worth the move.
So does Baltimore have a coach in their cross hairs that they think could be worth the risk? Then I like it. But if they are moving on from Harbaugh just to move to say Tomlin. That just wouldn’t make much sense to me.
Also, the NFL is so funny. Guy gets fired and immediately becomes the number 1 target for a bunch of franchises.
Pretty funny. Excited to see how it all goes down.
I will be looking to fade any college coaches. I don’t think Kingsbury will work. I’m hoping the Hawks look inward and keep continuity rather than someone like McDaniel
Go hawks
I like your perspective. It’s easy to be reactive and call for someone’s head. It’s hard to set a new strategy and do the work to find a better replacement who fits the strategy.
It’s also harder for the strategy types to get emotional clicks than it is for the reactionaries.
That is certainly not the case in any job i have ever held. If you suck bad enough to get fired you have a hard time getting a job in the same position again. Not the NFL. I am reminded of Jeff Fisher. His lifetime record is right around 500 but had a crazy long career.
Yeah … I find it completely crazy!
John Harbaugh is fired and according reports is immediately called by many teams the next day.
I don't think McDaniel is on brand for the Seahawks. Too much finesse football.
Completely agree.
We need under center/play action coordinator who is committed to running the ball.
GM of the year: John Schneider. Replaced the team’s top coach, two winning QBs, and WR1 and succeeded.
Coach of the year: One who didn’t get fired this week.
Super funny. Best short comment in a week.
Seems like Andy Reid is more like Pete Carroll and John Harbaugh: After a run of sustained success, his Eagles teams were eliminated in the WC round two years in a row and went 12-20 the next two seasons. The Eagles moved on from Reid and—after taking a wrong turn with Chip Kelly—have been to three of the last eight SBs, winning two of them (against Belichek and Reid). While Reid may be a great play caller, his success since leaving Philadelphia is mostly due to Patrick Mahomes.
Look at the chargers as well with the chargers. Some teams ( coaches too ) get stagnant and need a change.
Absolutely gm’s are noticing Seattle, no doubt. Would just say there was more to it than just “successful-coach-for-a-decade+” vs new young hot shot:
- Seattle has had four consecutive Grade A drafts and has the 3rd youngest team in the NFL. Moldable clay. Not the same as trying to turn around a franchise with established stars and especially dealing with an immovable QB who’s influencing decisions — like Jackson or Allen if Buffalo makes a move.
- Seattle creates tons of cap space without weakening the team, brought in several players who improved the team and has the ability to bring in several more. Different from taking over a team where you’re going to be forced to peel off talent and hope you find cheaper replacements….the Ravens do have Jackson and Henry and several other pieces but VERY different dynamics than the team MacDonald inherited. The Ravens HC is going to be charged with making it work with them, or get fired like Harbaugh. Whereas Macdonald had free rein to dump his QB, his offensive star and his OC after just a year…
- ….which brings me to the third and fourth pieces of the puzzle which are John Schneider and Jody Allen. Compare that duo to Raiders’ Spytek and Davis Jr (with Brady looking over their shoulders) at the Raiders, or Mougey and Woody Johnson with the Jets and tell me they’re just a head coach away?
- and lastly, how many true geniuses are there out there? McVey, Macdonald, Campbell and Vrabel in their ways, maybe Ben Johnson (but I’m predicting here and now he’s going to wear thin soon), maybe Liam Cohen? McDonald was thought to be (and looked to be, early days) one in Miami. But, are truly off the charts young coaches as rare as true franchise QB, no more than 6-7 at any one time? Meaning 7 or 8 HC openings are not going to work out any more than drafting 7 or 8 QB’s in any one draft class.
- and BEWARE of handing the keys of your franchise over to your star QB (which is what Baltimore just did). They can grow petulant, distant, pouting, pointing fingers etc and stronger than the HC. We in Seattle know what that feels like and Denver bet the farm on the same thing (Adam Gase never stood a chance).
I don’t know man, the Carroll firing feels so much different than the Harbaugh firing. Seattle prob is to blame, but a lot more to it than just coach vs coach.
Nice analysis...so many variables determine the success of a team. As you illustrate so well, a successful "team" includes more than 70 dudes in helmets. We are so fortunate to have the team we have, from Jody, Schneider, coaches and the names we don't know, scouting for players, booking travel, dealing with gear or washing towels. The component parts have to fit. It takes a village to raise a Champion.
Well put, Zez.
This is from Yahoo News: Seahawks News ~ SB NATION :
"When did the Seahawks become a ‘Super Bowl team’ in your eyes?" – Seaside Joe
"Why Klint Kubiak is probably leaving and who should replace him?"
Playin' With The Big Boys Now
Moving with the times, SSJ. Good on ya. I suspect there are very viable new tools finding ways to assist the rapid fire decision-making during live game situations. Paying huge amounts of money to those who can't grasp it all may have something to do with this unprecedented turnover among HCs. Something is afoot and I'll plant my flag in this direction. It took a genius accountant to translate his facts and figures into real-world action with Money Ball. It is not much of a leap to suspect rabid football fans among computer engineers have produced A.I. algorithms aimed directly at fast live decisions affecting outcomes. JS would immediately see the upside and convey that to Mike. No doubt it is far from perfection, but those insisting on Tradition, scoffing at the revolution coming would be a huge hindrance. Dunno. Just saying...