Mookie over at FGs has Geno as a loser from the game yesterday even though he didn’t think Geno played all that badly on the field. His comment about ‘the timeline’ with Geno makes sense, and it applies to DK as well. How far away are the Seahawks to truly competing for the NFC and a ticket to the SB? Based on what we have seen of the 2024 season which is now more than half over… the Seahawks are not close. There are glaring deficiencies on both sides of the ball, and having DK on a high priced contract will prevent the team from addressing some of those needs. So… get what you can for DK at the deadline, play the young guys this year to see what you’ve got (including, I would say, Howell) so you have a clear idea of what needs to be done in the 25 draft and FA to move the team forward.
All day on all the sports radio channels, the majority of people stated the biggest problems on this team is the front on both sides, but mainly saying it's the O-line. I've been saying that since before the season started! IF ( a big if) Lucas can come back and remain healthy, they really only need upgrade at both Guard positions. Connor Williams had a real bad snap yesterday, But he is getting better and fitting in more each game,( watch closely). I would like to see them give Sataoa a shot. Now I know he probably needs some schooling in pass Pro, But he was a Manster in run blocking at Utah. Let's give him a shot and see what we have. Maybe we only need One Guard!
Geno simply has none of the classic leadership traits we like to see in QBs. But he has the technicals down as few have had. As fans, we want to see the RahRah hero shit, but the game now uses amazing new tools to neutralize any tendencies in that direction. Stuff like super-clear "films" run in nano-second slo-mo from many angles to A.I. assists available almost immediately. Yesterday was our Mulligan. I'm moving on. So will the Team. I can only hope the 12s don't abdicate their importance, as the guys draw heavily on them performance-wise. I consider the Reed-Hall dust-up a direct consequence of what they were hearing from the bleachers. As it should be...
Excellent comment about Geno. I’ve said similar but not like how you posted (note I might steal your thought here). Geno “technically” is very skilled. His capabilities when his #1 play call is there is near the top in the NFL. I think pre snap he’s very good. But post snap play breakdown less so and definitely not that rah rah type.
FGs have a major bias towards DK. If you don’t sign Geno I see no point in signing DK. If Geno can’t get this team going in the right direction, I just fail to see how a draft pick, FA, or Howell can do anything more.
DK is an absolute specimen and when he is in is incredible to watch. He just is so inconsistent in terms of positive impact from drive to drive. I almost want to watch all the drives he helps vs hurts. I feel like the Viants game he had 2 or 3 mistakes on 3rd down that stalled drives. He can be infuriating because of his obvious skillset, his consistency just kills me.
DK can outrun Geno's range, as we see him have to slow down to get a catch. I strongly suspect he will be looking to the Steelers as Russ Wilson returns to championship form. Russ can lob further and more accurately than anyone I've seen.
Another CON is who will replace DK? It’s not going to be Lockett, and it may be time to recognize that JSN is not all that good. Of his 69 receiving yards yesterday, 32 came on two receptions in garbage time. For the rest of the game, he was a familiar and depressing 4/37. While It’s not all on him (because in this game it rarely is all on one player), but JSN hasn’t exactly been a beacon in the darkness, either. He wouldn’t be the first highly-regarded college player whose game wasn’t good enough for the pros.
Possible. I do want to see how everything looks with Howell out there to see if there is a difference. Geno just looks so slow processing what he is seeing. I am not sure if Howell would make any difference but he did look like he was working on his game in the preseason (no panicked throw or INTs).
It doesn’t help when he’s being used sparingly and running routs short and across the middle with a QB that has trouble getting past looking for his first option. Without him being used more, and more efficiently, no one will know what he can achieve. To me, most of the time he is used he produces, so…..
I have not watched the Bills too much this year ... But geez I thought Keon Coleman looked good.
Just an observation. What does that mean for JSN or DK? I don't know but the 8th WR taken in the second round appeared to me to be quite impactful on the game.
If we are willing to lose our best offensive player for the sake of "maximising value", why would we stop there? The season's lost already, we dont care about on-field results. If we are gonna be consistent then over the next week (before the trade deadline) the Hawks MUST:
- trade everyone who isn't on a rookie deal we get a decent offer for
- acquire Deshaun Watson in a salary dump trade for a bunch of CLE draft picks then cut him immediately; we don't care about 2025 at this point if we get a bunch of high picks this year and next, and a clear salary cap in 2026
- sign absolutely 0 external free agents next off-season to max out comp picks
If you DONT like that idea, which would accrue far more draft picks and increase our chances of bottoming out into good draft position this year, then MAYBE you don't want to tear it down/extract maximum value/"build a sustainable winner" by going backwards for the next 18 months. MAYBE you are reacting out of frustration to a disappointing loss. MAYBE you forgot that the division is tied at 4-4 and we have 5 divisional games in the next 10 weeks. MAYBE we should all calm the fuck down and keep DK's name out of our mouths for a minute (this last one might seem like a swipe at SSJ but "we" in this context is fans and SEA-specific media outlets).
Which other NFCW team are we confident the Seahawks can beat right now based on the performance yesterday? I was pretty sure we would lose to Buffalo but thought it would be close. That was a disaster yesterday.
The Rams are getting healthy and McVay is going to have fun scheming for the Seahawks D. If the Seahawks lose next week to the Rams (which I would say is likely at this point) then they are 0-2 in the division having lost 2 home games... and the playoffs are not going to happen.
While MM took over a better team than Pete did we forget that the first two seasons were 7-9, 7-9 before things turned around. DK is going to want to get paid, understandably, and it probably doesn't make sense to pay him in Seattle given where the team is at.
This is my issue really: yesterday was outlier-bad with how the 2nd quarter went, which eventually created a long string of disadvantageous positions in the 2nd half. If the team blows most of their RZ opportunities with mistakes and turnovers then of course they don't look like they'll beat anyone, because teams that do that consistently lose consistently.
Last week against Atlanta we looked ready to go on a win streak, and had Q2 against BUF gone differently we might well have. This team has shown that it can put up points in bunches and can hang with quality opponents. Im not scared of any NFCW team team frankly Detroit and Buffalo were our 2 toughest games of the year.
Seattle need to cut out the mistakes, remember how to tackle (we've seen them do a good job in open space at times, just needs to be consistent) and get a new punt returner, those are not foundational problems, they are things that should be fixed by coaching. The actual foundational issues are the ones they planned to have coming into the season: terrible IOL, question marks at RT, new scheme on defense which would take time to gel. Progression isn't linear anywhere but especially in the NFL when your available players and the quality of your opposition fluctuates significantly week-to-week. To quote a massive c*nt I hate: R-E-L-A-X.
I agree MJDarby15. We have struggled at times, but we’ve also shown something at times. We still have W’s on the board. It’s not all doom and gloom. I think SJ’s point though, is that they need to make a decision sooner rather than later to avoid complications. That’s all. All the negativity comes from the bad result on the weekend. We’ll all get over it when we win this week.
I'm wondering what effect the sudden loss of Baker had on the guys. No doubt it is a rude reality move Coaches must make, but the emotions of feeling all the parts are coming together could only take a hard hit when one of THEM suddenly (and rudely) gets gone. Tomorrow, every eye on the Team will be focused on the film for how well #13 played yesterday. My bet is he gets a begrudging nod all around.
Baker wasn't producing so I would expect the other players to take it as a sign that you need to produce if you want to stick around.
Sunday was unexpectedly bad, I don't believe Buffalo is that much better than the Hawks so I'm writing that game off as one of those things. But a poor showing against the Ram and I might have to rethink that.
Such trade opportunities don't come along often. They come fast and the opportunity to grab it is a very short window. Being uprooted and tossed across the country must be one of the greatest fears a player can experience, especially as concerns their family. To do so suddenly is a shock through the whole program and no doubt a huge nightmare for Head Coaches if it happens fast. Logic and Reason always takes a backseat to the emotions. It takes time to heal.
“If we are willing to lose our best offensive player for the sake of "maximising value", why would we stop there?”
That’s the question. Whether or not it makes sense to trade Metcalf depends on one’s assessment of the rest of the roster. I can’t see moving him if the only reasons are to avoid paying him and to get a second-round draft pick who might or might not work out.
In general, the “maximize value” argument is limited and should not drive roster construction. As I said in response to another post, that Stone Forsythe might be playing at a level above what his salary suggests is beside the point if he isn’t any good. Similarly, I’d rather overpay for DK rather than take a chance on replacing him. A bird in hand has inherent value.
Everything makes sense in a logical way. I just like DK with all his flaws. He's the only member of the team right now who shows a personality that provides its own level of entertainment. He stopped using the pacifier mouthguard this year I noticed. He may have given it to a new player...I thought I saw it in someone's mouth, but don't remember who. I will not like seeing him in a different uniform and as much as Wilson would love to add him to the Steelers roster I'm not sure Russell is ever going to achieve his return to his past level of talent. DK remains a close friend of Russell's so I'm sure he would be happy to make that trade. It wouldn't be the first that felt like a huge loss. I remember feeling awful when Golden was traded, Bennett, and Wagner. Seahawks just don't wear other uniforms well.
Unfortunately, DK can both be likeable and want $35 million per season or else demand a trade. It's up to the Seahawks if they want to take either risk.
Every single team needs a $35 million dollar WR. That is just the going rate. No competitive team doesn't have at least one top of line WR who will eventually be paid 35 and more. Some teams will have two top paid WR's and SF has three right now. Not just two. One of them is a TE, but then they actually have a 4th top of the line skill player on offense if you include McCaffery.
I agree. This is not about what we think though. All I did is acknowledge that John Schneider has to make that decision about DK. I didn't tell anyone what to think.
I think DK's trade value ceiling is Conditional 3rd, i.e. Adams deal. I'd be ok with that deal, if we saw more commitent to a genuine rebuild (possibly with another 2-3 trades in/out, certainly with some more big cuts in the off-season, and taking a punt to give more game time to younger players). Less than that i'm inclined to keep DK and take a bit of a gamble that the NFL does not view him as a $30mil+ AAV WR.
I've said a few times i expect the WR market bubble to burst sometime very soon. DK has the potential to be the pin. Undeniably talent, undeniably not worth what Top10 WR's are currently being paid. He could well hold out, see the 'Hawks agree a trade in principle, and find out that even the Browns would only give him $15mil AAV. As we're seeing the QB market sort of drop off, and the RB market resetting itself, WR makes sense to be next on offence.
Who would step up if we lost DK, or he was holding out? Idk. Could easily be JSN, finally being utiliesed often and properly to maximise his skills. Could easily be a 5th Rd draft pick, or a fairly cut price FA. There's no shortage of good, solid WR's out there and coming out of College. And with a more spread offence balance with KW3/Charbs, JSN, Bobo, Barner & someone new could be a lot better than the current stutter.
What would DK play like on a team with a quality QB. and Oline? For me, it's scary to think the numbers he would put up playing with a QB with better field vision and time to allow down field throws. Trade him to a better team than what we are now and he would put up monster numbers. If the QB situation and the Oline can be fixed by next year, pay him.
It’s a fair question … one I have gone back and forth on many times. As I would like to see more investment in the o-line.
However, I have a hard time seeing JS do this. JS has always said that this team is close. This is probably what he has told Jody. Trading away a top talent would suggest that this team is not close.
I get that there are fans that do not think this team is “close” and are maybe right … but from JS’ perspective- how much more time is Jody going to give him?
Football is one of the pressure cookers. You go from riding high in Atlanta to next week jobs could be on the line. GM, HC, OC, QB, WR1 and on down the line have a lot on the line the rest of the season.
This was always going to be a razors edge season. Are they close, like JS belives and just needs better coaching, or are there deeper flaws that need a deeper rebuild?
The bills game suggested the latter. That reality would not be good for anyone, imo.
I think JS learned a lesson from the Russell trade that Bill Belichick espouses: better to trade a guy a year too early than a year too late. Ken has laid out the pros and cons pretty well. To me, the biggest factor is the money. Does the team really want to devote $30+M to a WR (which will be around 11.5% of the estimated cap next year)? Personally, while I like DK, I do get frustrated with not only the penalties and drops, but the way he disappears at times, particularly when matched up with someone who talks a lot. However, I think the question has already been answered after looking at DK's contract restructure. They added 3 void years onto his existing deal. That guarantees they take a minimum of $7.1M in dead money after the 2025 season. If they trade DK, they take a total of $13.875M of dead money immediately. They only have $8M or so in cap space. That means they'd have to do another restructure or two just to trade him. I don't see it happening. Therefore, my only conclusion is that they are going to extend him after this season. They needed to create the cap space for this season, and I think they chose DK because the plan is to keep him long term.
IMHO the two red zone flubs decided the game and destabilized a Hawks team that hasn't proven its resilience. And without DK active, the Bills let their D stuff the box and cover the short pass.
Had they won the game, or made it truly competitive, I do not think SJ would've posted about DK.
FWIW, I also think that adding a new DT and MIKE, and then expecting great D defies the odds.
What I see is JS not using the word "rebuild" (the franchise is too proud) but doing it with trades WHILE trying to win as many as possible. This Hawks season is going to be up-and-down forgettable, though they might gel in the last 3-4 games, winning or being competitive - if they stay healthy enough.
you've talked about DKs value before, relative to salary, productivity, penalties, and compared to other top receivers.
And whereas I agree that his transgressions are expensive enough such that he doesn't pencil out to be worth what we're paying him now, let alone his pending holdout.
But what I don't recall you talking about is what other top-flight receivers will become available that might be more expensive but bring less 'overhead' (e.g., fumbles, penalties, attitude)?
Why wouldn't we bid on a Devonte Adams or James Jefferson or someone dependable?
If all he is worth is a second round pick from a playoff team, then I find the equation laughably lopsided in favor of keeping him. If we trade DK we will instantly need to replace him. With a late second round pick we would have to get very lucky to replace him. Like, the odds are near zero that we could get a #1 WR with intimidating size and incredible physical attributes in the late second round. Heck, a late second is barely better than the third rounder we selected Haynes with. Wow. What a trade. We save all that money we wish we could spend but can't get one without giving up one of OUR second round picks or better.
I think DK is worth a top half of the first round pick. Meaning, a guaranteed non-playoff team. Like the Patriots. Or the Giants. Not Pittsburg. Not Kansas City.
DK is still getting better and still maturing. It would be foolish to trade him for less than a top tenish first round pick. I'd be insulted for any offer of less.
Agree 100% with this! I feel Hawks fans in general tend to overvalue draft picks...it is a crapshoot and not worth the risk. Keep DK in Seattle for many years to come (he is a unicorn).
Simple math (oxymoron?): DK = 2 (++OL's) + 1 (+DL) + >BOBO. Hypothesis: An 'great+' OL and '< average' WR's ARE BETTER than 'great+' WR's and an '< average' OL. Also, a great OL can make an 'ok' RB great. Everything flows from the big dudes.
Mookie over at FGs has Geno as a loser from the game yesterday even though he didn’t think Geno played all that badly on the field. His comment about ‘the timeline’ with Geno makes sense, and it applies to DK as well. How far away are the Seahawks to truly competing for the NFC and a ticket to the SB? Based on what we have seen of the 2024 season which is now more than half over… the Seahawks are not close. There are glaring deficiencies on both sides of the ball, and having DK on a high priced contract will prevent the team from addressing some of those needs. So… get what you can for DK at the deadline, play the young guys this year to see what you’ve got (including, I would say, Howell) so you have a clear idea of what needs to be done in the 25 draft and FA to move the team forward.
It’s clear now that the team has problems at guard. I’m skeptical that this would motivate Schneider to use a second round draft pick on one.
JS has to listen to his coaches. If MM and Grubb tell him they need upgrades at certain positions then JS would have to listen to that.
All day on all the sports radio channels, the majority of people stated the biggest problems on this team is the front on both sides, but mainly saying it's the O-line. I've been saying that since before the season started! IF ( a big if) Lucas can come back and remain healthy, they really only need upgrade at both Guard positions. Connor Williams had a real bad snap yesterday, But he is getting better and fitting in more each game,( watch closely). I would like to see them give Sataoa a shot. Now I know he probably needs some schooling in pass Pro, But he was a Manster in run blocking at Utah. Let's give him a shot and see what we have. Maybe we only need One Guard!
Doug, I agree with you 100%.
Mookie has always been honest about Geno, just as Ken has been. I don't read the comments at FGs, so I'm not sure how well his opinion is received :)
I’m with you. I read the articles but not the content moments. They’re not good for my blood pressure.
Jeez. I’m blaming my bad proofreading. “Content moments” was MEANT to be “comments”.
Geno simply has none of the classic leadership traits we like to see in QBs. But he has the technicals down as few have had. As fans, we want to see the RahRah hero shit, but the game now uses amazing new tools to neutralize any tendencies in that direction. Stuff like super-clear "films" run in nano-second slo-mo from many angles to A.I. assists available almost immediately. Yesterday was our Mulligan. I'm moving on. So will the Team. I can only hope the 12s don't abdicate their importance, as the guys draw heavily on them performance-wise. I consider the Reed-Hall dust-up a direct consequence of what they were hearing from the bleachers. As it should be...
Excellent comment about Geno. I’ve said similar but not like how you posted (note I might steal your thought here). Geno “technically” is very skilled. His capabilities when his #1 play call is there is near the top in the NFL. I think pre snap he’s very good. But post snap play breakdown less so and definitely not that rah rah type.
FGs have a major bias towards DK. If you don’t sign Geno I see no point in signing DK. If Geno can’t get this team going in the right direction, I just fail to see how a draft pick, FA, or Howell can do anything more.
DK is an absolute specimen and when he is in is incredible to watch. He just is so inconsistent in terms of positive impact from drive to drive. I almost want to watch all the drives he helps vs hurts. I feel like the Viants game he had 2 or 3 mistakes on 3rd down that stalled drives. He can be infuriating because of his obvious skillset, his consistency just kills me.
DK can outrun Geno's range, as we see him have to slow down to get a catch. I strongly suspect he will be looking to the Steelers as Russ Wilson returns to championship form. Russ can lob further and more accurately than anyone I've seen.
Another CON is who will replace DK? It’s not going to be Lockett, and it may be time to recognize that JSN is not all that good. Of his 69 receiving yards yesterday, 32 came on two receptions in garbage time. For the rest of the game, he was a familiar and depressing 4/37. While It’s not all on him (because in this game it rarely is all on one player), but JSN hasn’t exactly been a beacon in the darkness, either. He wouldn’t be the first highly-regarded college player whose game wasn’t good enough for the pros.
Possible. I do want to see how everything looks with Howell out there to see if there is a difference. Geno just looks so slow processing what he is seeing. I am not sure if Howell would make any difference but he did look like he was working on his game in the preseason (no panicked throw or INTs).
“Geno just looks so slow processing what he is seeing”.
Well he is trying to see past the Defensive Tackles that are instantly up in his visor
That’s not what I see. Geno had time on most of his pass attempts yesterday but was hesitating.
Geno is the only consistent player on the team. Outside of Julien Love, Meyers, and Dickson.
It doesn’t help when he’s being used sparingly and running routs short and across the middle with a QB that has trouble getting past looking for his first option. Without him being used more, and more efficiently, no one will know what he can achieve. To me, most of the time he is used he produces, so…..
2024 NFL Draft (WRs only)
1 (4) Marvin Harrison
2 (6) Nabers
3 (9) Rome Odunze
4 (23) Brian Thomas
5 (28) Xavier Worthy
6 (31) Ricky Pearsall
7 (32) Xavier Legette
8 (33) Keon Coleman
I have not watched the Bills too much this year ... But geez I thought Keon Coleman looked good.
Just an observation. What does that mean for JSN or DK? I don't know but the 8th WR taken in the second round appeared to me to be quite impactful on the game.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate here real quick.
If we are willing to lose our best offensive player for the sake of "maximising value", why would we stop there? The season's lost already, we dont care about on-field results. If we are gonna be consistent then over the next week (before the trade deadline) the Hawks MUST:
- trade everyone who isn't on a rookie deal we get a decent offer for
- acquire Deshaun Watson in a salary dump trade for a bunch of CLE draft picks then cut him immediately; we don't care about 2025 at this point if we get a bunch of high picks this year and next, and a clear salary cap in 2026
- sign absolutely 0 external free agents next off-season to max out comp picks
If you DONT like that idea, which would accrue far more draft picks and increase our chances of bottoming out into good draft position this year, then MAYBE you don't want to tear it down/extract maximum value/"build a sustainable winner" by going backwards for the next 18 months. MAYBE you are reacting out of frustration to a disappointing loss. MAYBE you forgot that the division is tied at 4-4 and we have 5 divisional games in the next 10 weeks. MAYBE we should all calm the fuck down and keep DK's name out of our mouths for a minute (this last one might seem like a swipe at SSJ but "we" in this context is fans and SEA-specific media outlets).
Which other NFCW team are we confident the Seahawks can beat right now based on the performance yesterday? I was pretty sure we would lose to Buffalo but thought it would be close. That was a disaster yesterday.
The Rams are getting healthy and McVay is going to have fun scheming for the Seahawks D. If the Seahawks lose next week to the Rams (which I would say is likely at this point) then they are 0-2 in the division having lost 2 home games... and the playoffs are not going to happen.
While MM took over a better team than Pete did we forget that the first two seasons were 7-9, 7-9 before things turned around. DK is going to want to get paid, understandably, and it probably doesn't make sense to pay him in Seattle given where the team is at.
This is my issue really: yesterday was outlier-bad with how the 2nd quarter went, which eventually created a long string of disadvantageous positions in the 2nd half. If the team blows most of their RZ opportunities with mistakes and turnovers then of course they don't look like they'll beat anyone, because teams that do that consistently lose consistently.
Last week against Atlanta we looked ready to go on a win streak, and had Q2 against BUF gone differently we might well have. This team has shown that it can put up points in bunches and can hang with quality opponents. Im not scared of any NFCW team team frankly Detroit and Buffalo were our 2 toughest games of the year.
Seattle need to cut out the mistakes, remember how to tackle (we've seen them do a good job in open space at times, just needs to be consistent) and get a new punt returner, those are not foundational problems, they are things that should be fixed by coaching. The actual foundational issues are the ones they planned to have coming into the season: terrible IOL, question marks at RT, new scheme on defense which would take time to gel. Progression isn't linear anywhere but especially in the NFL when your available players and the quality of your opposition fluctuates significantly week-to-week. To quote a massive c*nt I hate: R-E-L-A-X.
I agree MJDarby15. We have struggled at times, but we’ve also shown something at times. We still have W’s on the board. It’s not all doom and gloom. I think SJ’s point though, is that they need to make a decision sooner rather than later to avoid complications. That’s all. All the negativity comes from the bad result on the weekend. We’ll all get over it when we win this week.
I'm wondering what effect the sudden loss of Baker had on the guys. No doubt it is a rude reality move Coaches must make, but the emotions of feeling all the parts are coming together could only take a hard hit when one of THEM suddenly (and rudely) gets gone. Tomorrow, every eye on the Team will be focused on the film for how well #13 played yesterday. My bet is he gets a begrudging nod all around.
According to former LB Dave Wyman , the new guy at MLB actually played fairly well, especially for just 3 days of being here.
Yep. And Dodson was a weak-side LB playing the middle. He immediately went to the Will side, where he belongs.
Baker wasn't producing so I would expect the other players to take it as a sign that you need to produce if you want to stick around.
Sunday was unexpectedly bad, I don't believe Buffalo is that much better than the Hawks so I'm writing that game off as one of those things. But a poor showing against the Ram and I might have to rethink that.
Such trade opportunities don't come along often. They come fast and the opportunity to grab it is a very short window. Being uprooted and tossed across the country must be one of the greatest fears a player can experience, especially as concerns their family. To do so suddenly is a shock through the whole program and no doubt a huge nightmare for Head Coaches if it happens fast. Logic and Reason always takes a backseat to the emotions. It takes time to heal.
“If we are willing to lose our best offensive player for the sake of "maximising value", why would we stop there?”
That’s the question. Whether or not it makes sense to trade Metcalf depends on one’s assessment of the rest of the roster. I can’t see moving him if the only reasons are to avoid paying him and to get a second-round draft pick who might or might not work out.
In general, the “maximize value” argument is limited and should not drive roster construction. As I said in response to another post, that Stone Forsythe might be playing at a level above what his salary suggests is beside the point if he isn’t any good. Similarly, I’d rather overpay for DK rather than take a chance on replacing him. A bird in hand has inherent value.
D Watson ? Really ??? No Way!
For clarity: I was exaggerating to make a point. I don't want the Hawks to have anything to do with that scumbag
Everything makes sense in a logical way. I just like DK with all his flaws. He's the only member of the team right now who shows a personality that provides its own level of entertainment. He stopped using the pacifier mouthguard this year I noticed. He may have given it to a new player...I thought I saw it in someone's mouth, but don't remember who. I will not like seeing him in a different uniform and as much as Wilson would love to add him to the Steelers roster I'm not sure Russell is ever going to achieve his return to his past level of talent. DK remains a close friend of Russell's so I'm sure he would be happy to make that trade. It wouldn't be the first that felt like a huge loss. I remember feeling awful when Golden was traded, Bennett, and Wagner. Seahawks just don't wear other uniforms well.
Unfortunately, DK can both be likeable and want $35 million per season or else demand a trade. It's up to the Seahawks if they want to take either risk.
Every single team needs a $35 million dollar WR. That is just the going rate. No competitive team doesn't have at least one top of line WR who will eventually be paid 35 and more. Some teams will have two top paid WR's and SF has three right now. Not just two. One of them is a TE, but then they actually have a 4th top of the line skill player on offense if you include McCaffery.
I agree. This is not about what we think though. All I did is acknowledge that John Schneider has to make that decision about DK. I didn't tell anyone what to think.
The Hawks just got their butts kicked by a team w/o anyone close to a $35 million receiver.
I think DK's trade value ceiling is Conditional 3rd, i.e. Adams deal. I'd be ok with that deal, if we saw more commitent to a genuine rebuild (possibly with another 2-3 trades in/out, certainly with some more big cuts in the off-season, and taking a punt to give more game time to younger players). Less than that i'm inclined to keep DK and take a bit of a gamble that the NFL does not view him as a $30mil+ AAV WR.
I've said a few times i expect the WR market bubble to burst sometime very soon. DK has the potential to be the pin. Undeniably talent, undeniably not worth what Top10 WR's are currently being paid. He could well hold out, see the 'Hawks agree a trade in principle, and find out that even the Browns would only give him $15mil AAV. As we're seeing the QB market sort of drop off, and the RB market resetting itself, WR makes sense to be next on offence.
Who would step up if we lost DK, or he was holding out? Idk. Could easily be JSN, finally being utiliesed often and properly to maximise his skills. Could easily be a 5th Rd draft pick, or a fairly cut price FA. There's no shortage of good, solid WR's out there and coming out of College. And with a more spread offence balance with KW3/Charbs, JSN, Bobo, Barner & someone new could be a lot better than the current stutter.
Regarding trading DK.
What would DK play like on a team with a quality QB. and Oline? For me, it's scary to think the numbers he would put up playing with a QB with better field vision and time to allow down field throws. Trade him to a better team than what we are now and he would put up monster numbers. If the QB situation and the Oline can be fixed by next year, pay him.
It’s a fair question … one I have gone back and forth on many times. As I would like to see more investment in the o-line.
However, I have a hard time seeing JS do this. JS has always said that this team is close. This is probably what he has told Jody. Trading away a top talent would suggest that this team is not close.
I get that there are fans that do not think this team is “close” and are maybe right … but from JS’ perspective- how much more time is Jody going to give him?
Football is one of the pressure cookers. You go from riding high in Atlanta to next week jobs could be on the line. GM, HC, OC, QB, WR1 and on down the line have a lot on the line the rest of the season.
This was always going to be a razors edge season. Are they close, like JS belives and just needs better coaching, or are there deeper flaws that need a deeper rebuild?
The bills game suggested the latter. That reality would not be good for anyone, imo.
Hope they turn it around quick. Go hawks.
I think JS learned a lesson from the Russell trade that Bill Belichick espouses: better to trade a guy a year too early than a year too late. Ken has laid out the pros and cons pretty well. To me, the biggest factor is the money. Does the team really want to devote $30+M to a WR (which will be around 11.5% of the estimated cap next year)? Personally, while I like DK, I do get frustrated with not only the penalties and drops, but the way he disappears at times, particularly when matched up with someone who talks a lot. However, I think the question has already been answered after looking at DK's contract restructure. They added 3 void years onto his existing deal. That guarantees they take a minimum of $7.1M in dead money after the 2025 season. If they trade DK, they take a total of $13.875M of dead money immediately. They only have $8M or so in cap space. That means they'd have to do another restructure or two just to trade him. I don't see it happening. Therefore, my only conclusion is that they are going to extend him after this season. They needed to create the cap space for this season, and I think they chose DK because the plan is to keep him long term.
IMHO the two red zone flubs decided the game and destabilized a Hawks team that hasn't proven its resilience. And without DK active, the Bills let their D stuff the box and cover the short pass.
Had they won the game, or made it truly competitive, I do not think SJ would've posted about DK.
FWIW, I also think that adding a new DT and MIKE, and then expecting great D defies the odds.
What I see is JS not using the word "rebuild" (the franchise is too proud) but doing it with trades WHILE trying to win as many as possible. This Hawks season is going to be up-and-down forgettable, though they might gel in the last 3-4 games, winning or being competitive - if they stay healthy enough.
hello Ken.
you've talked about DKs value before, relative to salary, productivity, penalties, and compared to other top receivers.
And whereas I agree that his transgressions are expensive enough such that he doesn't pencil out to be worth what we're paying him now, let alone his pending holdout.
But what I don't recall you talking about is what other top-flight receivers will become available that might be more expensive but bring less 'overhead' (e.g., fumbles, penalties, attitude)?
Why wouldn't we bid on a Devonte Adams or James Jefferson or someone dependable?
If all he is worth is a second round pick from a playoff team, then I find the equation laughably lopsided in favor of keeping him. If we trade DK we will instantly need to replace him. With a late second round pick we would have to get very lucky to replace him. Like, the odds are near zero that we could get a #1 WR with intimidating size and incredible physical attributes in the late second round. Heck, a late second is barely better than the third rounder we selected Haynes with. Wow. What a trade. We save all that money we wish we could spend but can't get one without giving up one of OUR second round picks or better.
I think DK is worth a top half of the first round pick. Meaning, a guaranteed non-playoff team. Like the Patriots. Or the Giants. Not Pittsburg. Not Kansas City.
DK is still getting better and still maturing. It would be foolish to trade him for less than a top tenish first round pick. I'd be insulted for any offer of less.
Agree 100% with this! I feel Hawks fans in general tend to overvalue draft picks...it is a crapshoot and not worth the risk. Keep DK in Seattle for many years to come (he is a unicorn).
Simple math (oxymoron?): DK = 2 (++OL's) + 1 (+DL) + >BOBO. Hypothesis: An 'great+' OL and '< average' WR's ARE BETTER than 'great+' WR's and an '< average' OL. Also, a great OL can make an 'ok' RB great. Everything flows from the big dudes.