I am a big Bradford fan but watching the all-22 film breakdown two things standed out: 1) Bradford has SLLLOOOWWW feet which is why he can be a liability in pass pro. 2) Sundell is so smart.. picking up extra blocks. When Olu comes back and IF he is the starting Center I see Sundall really pushing for the starting RG spot. Cross, Zabel, Olu, Sundell, Lucas—pretty high floor group. Bradford has such a high ceiling but his footwork makes him a huge liability.
I have the sense that positional value is no longer a stable metric. Draft BPA because you'll not regularly be disappointed if your scouts do their job, and there's no telling what the price of a midlevel player at [name that position but think Will Fries] will be worth in four years.
Normally I'm a contrarian, but I'll try for glass half full on this Monday morning.
Left to right. Cross is average at worst, good at best. Hoping for more from him with the new coaches and scheme, but he will not be a problem. Dominant? Probably not, but solid. Zabel look good in his first game. Yeah, a couple of snaps where he gets off balance and pushed back a bit, but c'mon, first NFL game. What I like the most is how he gets on people and stays there until the whistle. He pushed one guy 20 yards towards the right sideline and totally out of the camera frame. He'll be just fine. Average this year at worst, and by end of year, he could be one of the leagues better young guards, as his good plays will be just so good. Olu or Sundell will be fine at centre. Not a strength maybe, but not a weakness either. Sundell's sample size is very small, but he does just fine from what I've seen. Got a couple of nice second level blocks on LB's against the Raiders, showing his really good movement and targeting skills. Had some snaps he'd like to take back too, but he'll continue to get better with more snaps. Nothing holding him back physically or technically.
The all-22 review of Zabel contrasted his snap reaction and foot speed versus Bradford. It was enlightening to say the least. Bradford is slow off the snap, and doesn't work his feet, which is why he may never be great in pass pro. Yeah, he can move people if he can get on them, but you need to get latched on first, and he struggles doing that frequently. RG is most definitely the weak link right now. RT? Abe. 'Nuff said. Guy is awesome, and looked awesome against the Raiders.
In summary, from left to right.......Good, Good (and better later in the year), Average, Liability, and Great.
As for the liability at RG, there are other options to explore still. Hopefully they'll find someone out of Haynes, Sundell (if he doesn't start at centre), Laumea, or Cabeldue......although if Haynes was going to win the job, I'm thinking he would have done it already. There is something up there. Total speculation but my guess would be, they know Bradford isn't a great option, but there is something about Haynes character, habits, or something that they just do not like.
The other thing to keep in mind is that whatever limitations the o-line has will not be as obvious this year with Kubiak calling the plays. If we can run the ball, do a lot of under center play action, move the pocket, leverage the TE's and RB's to block and chip, then hopefully more often than not Sam will have the time he needs.
As to drafting a center or guard next year, I honestly have no idea. I'd lean towards edge if there is a good one there. Mafe's a FA after this year, Lawrence will be one year older, and who knows whether Chenna will rediscover his physical health. We need to add to that talent pool.
Good article but I'm more worried about this season. I still think we will have some good veteran additions in the IOL and at LB.I don't think MM is going to go into the season hoping OLU and Bradford suddenly become at least league average..
First thank you for the links. I haven’t read your Saturday article. I’m rewatching the game myself. I was preoccupied Thursday night. What I know is that the first series, Zabel was rocked back multiple times. He did quickly recover but dude was sent yards into the backfield. So I’m hoping to see some better stuff as I keep watching. Bradford was moving people in the game. Short yard stuff. But main thing SJ. I find it interesting that your going this route after numerous OLine articles talking about how takes these guys a couple or so years to come together. I distinctly recall you writing to numerous “fans” who were crying for immediate replacement for a guy one year after drafting him. Fries was nothing for years. Becton a dud, wasted pick. Until he wasn’t and helped Eagles to win SB.
I don't understand the basis for thinking Olu Oluwatimi is a bad center. Where are the film studies? Where are the stats? The only stats I am aware of are the ZERO sacks and 8 pressures Olu gave up in 9 games starting. Those don't sound like bad stats. Defend your assessment, please.
YES PLEASE! Spoiler Alert: The road to Championships is paved by bull dozers...On BOTH sides of the ball. Since I'm the smartest lerson in the room (not counting my wife and dog), I would go with a 1st round Guard or Center and a 2nd round NT or DT. I'd be poach'n a kick ass fire eating DT from the Cowboys with a trade (like yesterday!) while I'm at it. However, my dog thinks we can't do both and my wife has no opinion on the matter.
If Mica Parsons gets his wish to be traded (unlikely as that may be) The Hawks need to do whatever is in their power to trade for him. I say that because Aaron Donald said if the Rams get him then he is coming out of retirement. That would make the Rams the scariest pass rushing team in football.
Want to smile? Remember this: On Friday night, we saw Zabel’s floor. 1st preseason snaps as a rookie? It only gets better from here.
Regarding the comparison between Zabel and Bradford, the RG is our most stout, but un-athletic lineman. He can move people in the run game, but suffers in pass protection. I’m hopeful that Haynes can get back to 100% and that the coaches can get him to take a step forward. He has the athleticism that we need. Bring Bradford in as a sixth lineman in short yardage situations.
As I see it, great coaching of receptive players can build a line that functions very well. The exception is when there is a surprise from the defense. A great player is more likely to improvise and recover than a so-so player. But the great player won’t succeed 100%, nor will a so-so player fail 100%. And sometimes the failure will be away from the play. But a poorly coached line will fail over and over, even with excellent players.
I’m hopeful that the new coaching staff can make the interior line a less desperate need.
Or because we’ve shifted to a more run game, Bradford stays because of that bulldozing slam the dline back and his pass blocking improves. Loved his moving first and second tier. Couple big FD short yardage runs. And yes Zabel floor, once improved to speed of the game, was nice. Floor higher than Laken ceiling.
And if that first rep is the one I’m thinking of… the DT crossed Zabel’s face. He got knocked off his balance, but the next moment was impressive. He got his left leg quickly behind him, very wide, and stayed in the play. A lesser guard would be on the turf.
This brief lapse showed me three things. Zabel could process it quickly, mentally. He could respond quickly, physically. He had the flexibility to get his foot way back there to regain balance without crumbling. With more experience, he’ll be able to anticipate such moves from the opposition.
Contrast this with George Fant’s first games during the regular season. Fant was a basketball player who was an excellent athlete, but he had some super raw rookie moments. Zabel didn’t look like a rookie at all. Super impressed.
Fant and Zabel as rookies are on opposite ends of the spectrum. But Fant didn’t do badly, with a 9 year NFL career as a UFDA.
He was unbelievably raw when he became the Seahawks’ starting left tackle. I rooted for him as an underdog. But man, did he have some comical rookie mistakes! Fortunately, he had the athleticism to get through the teething pains and he was able to learn quickly. Not a Pro Bowler by any means, but he established a nice career.
With Zabel, I wasn’t sure exactly what we got. Yes, he was a 1st rounder, but it wasn’t like I ever watched any North Dakota State football. He wasn’t facing top competition, and he was primarily a tackle. Was he coached well in college? I had no idea. While he got a lot of hype and was selected high, could he have been a big reach? Did JS overvalue his performance at the Senior Bowl?
Turns out, he’s everything that we had hoped for. Excellent 1st round selection. We found his floor. No idea how high the ceiling.
For the 2026 1st round draft pick to be a guard or a center, I look at Creed Humphrey (center for Chiefs) Tyler Linderbaum center for Ravens) and Grey Zabel.... Absolutely YES.
Would the center we draft in the first or second round be 6'3", about 310 pounds, have long arms, good athletic numbers, play in a successful big-time program, be an award-winning All-American?
I am coming to realize the Soul of a Team starts with the O-Line. Okay, a theory. But I will be testing it. I'm still impressed with our Vets screwing the penalties and running out on the field to congratulate the Players. Even more so that Coaches and Managers were in total agreement. "Cost of doing Business", MacDonald said. Was it Holani's TD?
I am a big Bradford fan but watching the all-22 film breakdown two things standed out: 1) Bradford has SLLLOOOWWW feet which is why he can be a liability in pass pro. 2) Sundell is so smart.. picking up extra blocks. When Olu comes back and IF he is the starting Center I see Sundall really pushing for the starting RG spot. Cross, Zabel, Olu, Sundell, Lucas—pretty high floor group. Bradford has such a high ceiling but his footwork makes him a huge liability.
Picking a center with our #1 pick, won't be that shocking, since it will be pick #32......
I have the sense that positional value is no longer a stable metric. Draft BPA because you'll not regularly be disappointed if your scouts do their job, and there's no telling what the price of a midlevel player at [name that position but think Will Fries] will be worth in four years.
Normally I'm a contrarian, but I'll try for glass half full on this Monday morning.
Left to right. Cross is average at worst, good at best. Hoping for more from him with the new coaches and scheme, but he will not be a problem. Dominant? Probably not, but solid. Zabel look good in his first game. Yeah, a couple of snaps where he gets off balance and pushed back a bit, but c'mon, first NFL game. What I like the most is how he gets on people and stays there until the whistle. He pushed one guy 20 yards towards the right sideline and totally out of the camera frame. He'll be just fine. Average this year at worst, and by end of year, he could be one of the leagues better young guards, as his good plays will be just so good. Olu or Sundell will be fine at centre. Not a strength maybe, but not a weakness either. Sundell's sample size is very small, but he does just fine from what I've seen. Got a couple of nice second level blocks on LB's against the Raiders, showing his really good movement and targeting skills. Had some snaps he'd like to take back too, but he'll continue to get better with more snaps. Nothing holding him back physically or technically.
The all-22 review of Zabel contrasted his snap reaction and foot speed versus Bradford. It was enlightening to say the least. Bradford is slow off the snap, and doesn't work his feet, which is why he may never be great in pass pro. Yeah, he can move people if he can get on them, but you need to get latched on first, and he struggles doing that frequently. RG is most definitely the weak link right now. RT? Abe. 'Nuff said. Guy is awesome, and looked awesome against the Raiders.
In summary, from left to right.......Good, Good (and better later in the year), Average, Liability, and Great.
As for the liability at RG, there are other options to explore still. Hopefully they'll find someone out of Haynes, Sundell (if he doesn't start at centre), Laumea, or Cabeldue......although if Haynes was going to win the job, I'm thinking he would have done it already. There is something up there. Total speculation but my guess would be, they know Bradford isn't a great option, but there is something about Haynes character, habits, or something that they just do not like.
The other thing to keep in mind is that whatever limitations the o-line has will not be as obvious this year with Kubiak calling the plays. If we can run the ball, do a lot of under center play action, move the pocket, leverage the TE's and RB's to block and chip, then hopefully more often than not Sam will have the time he needs.
As to drafting a center or guard next year, I honestly have no idea. I'd lean towards edge if there is a good one there. Mafe's a FA after this year, Lawrence will be one year older, and who knows whether Chenna will rediscover his physical health. We need to add to that talent pool.
JS, MM, and KK will determine the weakest OL member and bring a better player through trade or free agency before the 2025 season is two weeks old.
Good article but I'm more worried about this season. I still think we will have some good veteran additions in the IOL and at LB.I don't think MM is going to go into the season hoping OLU and Bradford suddenly become at least league average..
Of courses.
No, we need a pass rusher with our first 2026 pick. I have confidence in our coaches, the Oline will be competent at some point this season.
Bradford block vs Jamal Adams was insightful....and either JA is really elite at shedding blocks or Bradford needs to keep working on his technique...
First thank you for the links. I haven’t read your Saturday article. I’m rewatching the game myself. I was preoccupied Thursday night. What I know is that the first series, Zabel was rocked back multiple times. He did quickly recover but dude was sent yards into the backfield. So I’m hoping to see some better stuff as I keep watching. Bradford was moving people in the game. Short yard stuff. But main thing SJ. I find it interesting that your going this route after numerous OLine articles talking about how takes these guys a couple or so years to come together. I distinctly recall you writing to numerous “fans” who were crying for immediate replacement for a guy one year after drafting him. Fries was nothing for years. Becton a dud, wasted pick. Until he wasn’t and helped Eagles to win SB.
I don't understand the basis for thinking Olu Oluwatimi is a bad center. Where are the film studies? Where are the stats? The only stats I am aware of are the ZERO sacks and 8 pressures Olu gave up in 9 games starting. Those don't sound like bad stats. Defend your assessment, please.
..And sundell looked like he was being moved around and out of position all game.
While not specifically saying Olu I just posted as well.
YES PLEASE! Spoiler Alert: The road to Championships is paved by bull dozers...On BOTH sides of the ball. Since I'm the smartest lerson in the room (not counting my wife and dog), I would go with a 1st round Guard or Center and a 2nd round NT or DT. I'd be poach'n a kick ass fire eating DT from the Cowboys with a trade (like yesterday!) while I'm at it. However, my dog thinks we can't do both and my wife has no opinion on the matter.
If Mica Parsons gets his wish to be traded (unlikely as that may be) The Hawks need to do whatever is in their power to trade for him. I say that because Aaron Donald said if the Rams get him then he is coming out of retirement. That would make the Rams the scariest pass rushing team in football.
JReed Williams Mills Hankins Murphy
Yes, please, at the latest next draft. Or try to fix RG in FA now and let’s see if that’s enough.
Want to smile? Remember this: On Friday night, we saw Zabel’s floor. 1st preseason snaps as a rookie? It only gets better from here.
Regarding the comparison between Zabel and Bradford, the RG is our most stout, but un-athletic lineman. He can move people in the run game, but suffers in pass protection. I’m hopeful that Haynes can get back to 100% and that the coaches can get him to take a step forward. He has the athleticism that we need. Bring Bradford in as a sixth lineman in short yardage situations.
As I see it, great coaching of receptive players can build a line that functions very well. The exception is when there is a surprise from the defense. A great player is more likely to improvise and recover than a so-so player. But the great player won’t succeed 100%, nor will a so-so player fail 100%. And sometimes the failure will be away from the play. But a poorly coached line will fail over and over, even with excellent players.
I’m hopeful that the new coaching staff can make the interior line a less desperate need.
Or because we’ve shifted to a more run game, Bradford stays because of that bulldozing slam the dline back and his pass blocking improves. Loved his moving first and second tier. Couple big FD short yardage runs. And yes Zabel floor, once improved to speed of the game, was nice. Floor higher than Laken ceiling.
I think you're right. I also think our TE and FB play will mitigate pass protection liabilities. Or at least one hopes.
Absolutely. While I didn’t peg Suebert making 53-man roster, him and Ouzts, “huge” additions.
Yeah in a microcosm he had a bad first rep and then locked in.
And if that first rep is the one I’m thinking of… the DT crossed Zabel’s face. He got knocked off his balance, but the next moment was impressive. He got his left leg quickly behind him, very wide, and stayed in the play. A lesser guard would be on the turf.
This brief lapse showed me three things. Zabel could process it quickly, mentally. He could respond quickly, physically. He had the flexibility to get his foot way back there to regain balance without crumbling. With more experience, he’ll be able to anticipate such moves from the opposition.
Contrast this with George Fant’s first games during the regular season. Fant was a basketball player who was an excellent athlete, but he had some super raw rookie moments. Zabel didn’t look like a rookie at all. Super impressed.
Multiple “first” rep. That series he was knocked back multiple times. Never lost his feel like Laken woulve but wasn’t one play.
George Fant was a UDFA who started his rookie season on the practice squad. I sure hope there is no comparison between him and Zabel.
Fant and Zabel as rookies are on opposite ends of the spectrum. But Fant didn’t do badly, with a 9 year NFL career as a UFDA.
He was unbelievably raw when he became the Seahawks’ starting left tackle. I rooted for him as an underdog. But man, did he have some comical rookie mistakes! Fortunately, he had the athleticism to get through the teething pains and he was able to learn quickly. Not a Pro Bowler by any means, but he established a nice career.
With Zabel, I wasn’t sure exactly what we got. Yes, he was a 1st rounder, but it wasn’t like I ever watched any North Dakota State football. He wasn’t facing top competition, and he was primarily a tackle. Was he coached well in college? I had no idea. While he got a lot of hype and was selected high, could he have been a big reach? Did JS overvalue his performance at the Senior Bowl?
Turns out, he’s everything that we had hoped for. Excellent 1st round selection. We found his floor. No idea how high the ceiling.
For the 2026 1st round draft pick to be a guard or a center, I look at Creed Humphrey (center for Chiefs) Tyler Linderbaum center for Ravens) and Grey Zabel.... Absolutely YES.
It would be exciting to have a center of that quality next to a guard of that quality.
Would the center we draft in the first or second round be 6'3", about 310 pounds, have long arms, good athletic numbers, play in a successful big-time program, be an award-winning All-American?
I am coming to realize the Soul of a Team starts with the O-Line. Okay, a theory. But I will be testing it. I'm still impressed with our Vets screwing the penalties and running out on the field to congratulate the Players. Even more so that Coaches and Managers were in total agreement. "Cost of doing Business", MacDonald said. Was it Holani's TD?
Twice, after both interceptions.