So even if this stays a misdemeanor (and if it does...wow) this guy is going to be in civil court for 100 years. So many victims and all would have a case against him. He will be playing for his lawfirm for his first two contracts.
Also how on earth has this stayed this quiet this long??
So, I didn't want Carter in the first place, but I wanted someone else above us to draft him to push others down the draft order to us at #5. Why I didn't want him wasn't about character, unless it was his character that caused him to have a fairly short highlights film for someone expected to go in the top 5.
Remember Seaside Joe's very recent article about QB's being drafted high without any film to point to to justify that draft position? Just the other day. Go back and read that article but change QB to DT and Anthony Richardson to Jalen Carter and everything else can stay the same with the same conclusion.
It's OK to draft a guy without any decent film to speak of in the 3rd or later rounds, but to draft them at the top of the first is way too risky. I guess he does has a dominate rush/run win rate. 22% if my memory is correct. Which is crazy good. I don't doubt he is crazy good, but it somehow doesn't result in sacks very often. I'm talking myself back into loving his talent. Ha, ha. No. He may dominate in the NFL in ways he didn't in college, but I'd rather take a guy with a "relentless motor" who wants to become the best at his position, and works to do that.
Nothing in his history suggests Carter is that guy. I'll pass.
I think it's interesting that when players "need more time to develop" that there aren't more question and comments on how their commitment, work ethic, or character come into play with regards to their on-field performances. Not saying this relates to any prospect specifically, but surely there is a relationship. And when players are oustanding athletes, we go "Ah! Natural gifts!" But I'm pretty sure that someone like Larry Fitzgerald, for example, is an outstanding athlete in large thanks because of the time he puts in the gym.
Looking deeper into this story, there is a very real chance that prosecutors charge Carter with felony manslaughter after all the information is gathered. Charges aside, I have lost all respect for the young man. He claims he was not drinking at 2:45 AM right after bars close on a Saturday night. Even IF that's true, then it seems even worse that the guy just saw his friend and teammate involved in a horrific surely deadly accident and his first impulse was to leave the scene. The crash photos are crazy. That Jeep almost went into a house. Wild to me that a crash involving a top NFL prospect that occurred in mid January is only now getting published.
Whether Carter lied to police, as is being alleged by some outlets and only alleged, will play perhaps the most critical factor in his football future.
As much as I don't like it, this could be a situation where his draft status needs to take a backseat to his legal status. If I'm his lawyers, I'm telling Carter to forget about when and where he gets drafted and don't say anything new to anyone (including coaches and GMs). Tell teams to talk to us for those questions and we'll let them know we're going to keep you on the field on Sundays. Your answer is "I just want to get to work and play football."
You don't have to be driving the car that crashed. A criminal defense attorney on Georgia sports radio just explained that there's ample case law for convictions where the driver in the other car was prosecuted for felony manslaughter and that charges being elevated is commonplace. Though I have to wonder if there's dash cam or witness evidence if they wouldn't know it by now. Of course, I'm still stumped that the story is just now breaking.
I'm going to play devil's advocate on this one: I don't think this will impact his draft stock too much (if at all). He is being charged with reckless driving and racing (both misdemeanors). He's not facing a DUI and he's not implicated in causing the death of his teammate and recruiting assistant (other than participating in racing).
I can empathize with him because at his age, I liked to drive my car fast and occasionally recklessly without thought for the consequences. I was lucky it never led to anyone being injured. While I believe it was a bad decision for Jalen (and his friends/colleagues), I also think that decision making is within the realm of typical for this stage of development.
- take longer to consider difficult problems before deciding on a course of action,
- are less influenced by the lure of rewards associated with behavior,
- are more sensitive to the potential costs associated with behavior, and
- have better developed impulse control.
In other words, the differences between adolescents and adults are stark, and *the years between 18 and 26* are when young people develop psychologically in ways that bridge these differences."
In other words, the ages 18-26 are when young adults start to differentiate from adolescent behavior. He's still well within this age range.
That doesn't excuse what he did, but I believe teams will find it easier to chalk this up to making a dumb mistake AND pass it off to their fans as such than they would, say, domestic violence or armed robbery.
However, he's going to be asked about this A LOT this week, and how he answers will determine whether or not his draft stock drops.
That is not at all what I said: "but I believe teams will find it easier to chalk this up to making a dumb mistake AND pass it off to their fans as such than they would, say, domestic violence or armed robbery."
I did not express any personal opinion about whether I would draft him, just that I can sympathize with making stupid decisions coming out of adolescence and into adulthood.
In no grandiose way, because I do like every comment. I do not intend to like comments to make anyone feel special. Only to let people know that they're being heard. Everyone here is of equal value and importance, including myself. I notice other people in my position almost act as if they have a God touch with who they choose to reply to or like or retweet. We're all equal here, I just happen to be the writer, and I'm grateful for everybody's presence whether we agree or disagree.
Still gives a tiny warm fuzzy to get the like though, even though EVERYONE gets one, we have all been well conditioned by social media at this point, lol.
I liked both of your comments which makes me confused I guess, but if I learned anything from the Dao De Ching, it is that paradox's exist all over the place. Life is one big paradox. Two opposite opinions can also both be correct.
I was just reading this before I came on to your site. I would think if I was about to be a top 5 pick in the NFL I would not being drinking and driving or anything else that would jeopardize my opportunity. This is a total lack of maturity and judgement on his part.
I also know premium talent to play a game is very valuable. I don't see him dropping far. Perhaps being apart of something like this will be a wake up call for him. I am sure attending his teammates funeral and morning his friends deaths is a sobering reality check
I won't speak to what happened to that night because I don't know, but generally speaking with any prospect, I agree that it's best to look to players who don't do anything to jeopardize their careers or lives or lives of others.
I agree, and in a perfect world that is all that would matter. But we are talking about a billion dollar sport and a player that has immense talent to play such sport.
My first thought is I never bought the idea of DT at picks 1-4. Anderson as top 4 pick yes, Young yes, Stroud maybe but my thought was that either the Bears would be better off drafting a left tackle. There a 2/3 left tackles deserving of the pick and had no idea why either the Cardinals or the Bears whose offensive lines truly are bad would not take a LT if Anderson was gone.
Carter made sense to me for Seattle though because of his ability to be a force in the middle that we have not had since Cortez Kennedy. Don’t get me wrong Carter is a very different player but his later movement skills allow him to cover three running gaps and force the Qb out of the pocket on passing plays. Pete can build a defense around that. I was not that concerned that Carter got gassed in the Ohio State game because he played significantly more snaps than normal.
The racing though that scares the hell out of me. This guy is looking at 35 million dollars guaranteed in a few months and taking these kind of chances. What is he going to do when he actually gets the 35 million? I doubt I will be the only concerned. In the end I would not be surprised if the question now is not whether the Seahawks draft him at 5 but whether they draft him at 20. is falling we are not going to get much if anything to trade
Certainly my research suggests that DT prospects of great value can be found outside the top-10 and sometimes after round 1. With Seattle's extra picks and lots of depth there, it would seem like the Seahawks could wait.
PC/JS have talked about bringing in high character guys prior to last years draft and this year. I think Carter is a very long shot. Of course, I think there is a draft position they would give him a look ... But at 5 it seems like it most likely will not happen.
This is not great news for the value of the 5 pick (as someone could've selected him prior to 5).
Speaking so much of character this year, I agree it would be off-brand to now turn around and pick Carter. Whether he's guilty or not-guilty, this will follow him.
Too often, NFL teams ask “is this someone want to bring into the building” when the question should be “is this someone we Will take responsibility for bringing into our community.” Malik McDowell was about the building; reckless driving is about the community. This doesn’t mean that, should the allegations bear out, Carter is undraftable under any circumstances. But whoever takes him should be awfully certain that he has learned a lesson.
I don't want to get carried away with assumptions, but the fact that the character concerns comment came before the incident makes this worse in my mind. To me, this suggests a pattern of behavior rather than an isolated (tragic) incident.
Frank Clark was a good pick, there was no two ways around it. As a football player, as football business, the pick worked for the Seahawks. Malik McDowell saw his stock fall from maybe being a top-10 pick before his final college season to the second round because of character concerns, so it is definitely a cautionary tale.
Jalen Carter is my biggest "why is he ranked so high?" prospect in years. He's huge, he's a brick wall, etc. etc., but there are behemoth run stuffers in the draft every year. 9 sacks, 3 batted passes and 13 QB hits in 3 years. That's barely better than an average season for Calijah Kancey. He picked up a QB with one arm. He looks great getting off the bus. He has character questions. Rob Staton pointed out that he's out of shape even in bowl games and Carter even admitted his conditioning was poor. And PFF has him ranked #1 overall.
I haven't followed the draft prospects that closely this year but I feel like people stopped talking about Carter's negatives in January and I'm not sure why. I assume a couple of the top draft pundits anointed him in their mocks and commentary but I really don't know when he suddenly became a top blue chip prospect.
He has been touted as a sure-fire NFL prospect since coming to Georgia. I recall people saying that if he was in the 2022 class he'd be a top 5 pick and so forth. He was very much on my radar as I watched Georgia games (and was consistently underwhelmed). When he picked up Jayden Daniels, Twitter went wild. Mina Kimes and others reposted the photo saying what a beast he is like he did stuff like that once every series. I don't get it. He may end up being the best defender in the league, and Bijan (who I've praised for a calendar year in these comments) may flame out but if your production is limited on college, why should it be expected to improve against insanely better competition?
I am trying to check myself and not do exactly what I complain about some draft pundits doing. There are those that completely change their minds on prospects and then others who once they say "prospect X (often Will Levis or AR15) is great!" can't even temper that opinion after seeing new information. If anyone can explain why I should reassess Carter (or Robinson, Kancey, etc.) by all means do so. My hit rate on who I wanted the Seahawks to draft in relation to how their careers turned out is historically all over the place.
After being burned to a crisp taking Malik McDowell in the first round and never playing a snap, I doubt PCJS make the mistake of drafting another player that high with maturity/character concerns. The 2022 draft class was a lesson in taking high character guys and I would bet that approach continues.
I am not so sure yet that Pete will never come near another prospect with character concerns. But a top-5 pick surely would seem to go against their recent comments on character.
My bad. He was the top Seahawks pick that year and for some reason I remember him as Round 1.
The thing about McDowell were the "he takes plays off" and conditioning concerns prior to the draft. The kid was immature and not ready for prime time (obviously).
So even if this stays a misdemeanor (and if it does...wow) this guy is going to be in civil court for 100 years. So many victims and all would have a case against him. He will be playing for his lawfirm for his first two contracts.
Also how on earth has this stayed this quiet this long??
Whatever happens, it could go up until the draft itself to find out the true impact on his value.
So, I didn't want Carter in the first place, but I wanted someone else above us to draft him to push others down the draft order to us at #5. Why I didn't want him wasn't about character, unless it was his character that caused him to have a fairly short highlights film for someone expected to go in the top 5.
Remember Seaside Joe's very recent article about QB's being drafted high without any film to point to to justify that draft position? Just the other day. Go back and read that article but change QB to DT and Anthony Richardson to Jalen Carter and everything else can stay the same with the same conclusion.
It's OK to draft a guy without any decent film to speak of in the 3rd or later rounds, but to draft them at the top of the first is way too risky. I guess he does has a dominate rush/run win rate. 22% if my memory is correct. Which is crazy good. I don't doubt he is crazy good, but it somehow doesn't result in sacks very often. I'm talking myself back into loving his talent. Ha, ha. No. He may dominate in the NFL in ways he didn't in college, but I'd rather take a guy with a "relentless motor" who wants to become the best at his position, and works to do that.
Nothing in his history suggests Carter is that guy. I'll pass.
I think it's interesting that when players "need more time to develop" that there aren't more question and comments on how their commitment, work ethic, or character come into play with regards to their on-field performances. Not saying this relates to any prospect specifically, but surely there is a relationship. And when players are oustanding athletes, we go "Ah! Natural gifts!" But I'm pretty sure that someone like Larry Fitzgerald, for example, is an outstanding athlete in large thanks because of the time he puts in the gym.
Looking deeper into this story, there is a very real chance that prosecutors charge Carter with felony manslaughter after all the information is gathered. Charges aside, I have lost all respect for the young man. He claims he was not drinking at 2:45 AM right after bars close on a Saturday night. Even IF that's true, then it seems even worse that the guy just saw his friend and teammate involved in a horrific surely deadly accident and his first impulse was to leave the scene. The crash photos are crazy. That Jeep almost went into a house. Wild to me that a crash involving a top NFL prospect that occurred in mid January is only now getting published.
Whether Carter lied to police, as is being alleged by some outlets and only alleged, will play perhaps the most critical factor in his football future.
As much as I don't like it, this could be a situation where his draft status needs to take a backseat to his legal status. If I'm his lawyers, I'm telling Carter to forget about when and where he gets drafted and don't say anything new to anyone (including coaches and GMs). Tell teams to talk to us for those questions and we'll let them know we're going to keep you on the field on Sundays. Your answer is "I just want to get to work and play football."
This gave me instant flashbacks to the Lamar Smith’s crash here in Kirkland about 3 decades ago. To be fair to Carter, he wasn’t driving the victims.
You don't have to be driving the car that crashed. A criminal defense attorney on Georgia sports radio just explained that there's ample case law for convictions where the driver in the other car was prosecuted for felony manslaughter and that charges being elevated is commonplace. Though I have to wonder if there's dash cam or witness evidence if they wouldn't know it by now. Of course, I'm still stumped that the story is just now breaking.
I'm going to play devil's advocate on this one: I don't think this will impact his draft stock too much (if at all). He is being charged with reckless driving and racing (both misdemeanors). He's not facing a DUI and he's not implicated in causing the death of his teammate and recruiting assistant (other than participating in racing).
I can empathize with him because at his age, I liked to drive my car fast and occasionally recklessly without thought for the consequences. I was lucky it never led to anyone being injured. While I believe it was a bad decision for Jalen (and his friends/colleagues), I also think that decision making is within the realm of typical for this stage of development.
Per the NIH on the behavior of young adults (20s-30s) (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK284782/):
"Compared with adolescents, young adults
- take longer to consider difficult problems before deciding on a course of action,
- are less influenced by the lure of rewards associated with behavior,
- are more sensitive to the potential costs associated with behavior, and
- have better developed impulse control.
In other words, the differences between adolescents and adults are stark, and *the years between 18 and 26* are when young people develop psychologically in ways that bridge these differences."
In other words, the ages 18-26 are when young adults start to differentiate from adolescent behavior. He's still well within this age range.
That doesn't excuse what he did, but I believe teams will find it easier to chalk this up to making a dumb mistake AND pass it off to their fans as such than they would, say, domestic violence or armed robbery.
However, he's going to be asked about this A LOT this week, and how he answers will determine whether or not his draft stock drops.
There are several potential outcomes and it is definitely too soon to tell for sure how it's leaning.
So, you would be comfortable bringing a reckless driver into your community if were a good football player.
That is not at all what I said: "but I believe teams will find it easier to chalk this up to making a dumb mistake AND pass it off to their fans as such than they would, say, domestic violence or armed robbery."
I did not express any personal opinion about whether I would draft him, just that I can sympathize with making stupid decisions coming out of adolescence and into adulthood.
Todd McShay shouldn't be talking about anyone's character. He should be in treatment.
As one of the most prominent voices of the draft right now, Todd McShay should definitely be reporting on draft prospects as honestly as he can.
He's showing up drunk to work! How "honest" can he be l, when he can't even think straight. I'm speaking as a.recovering alcoholic. 13.years sober.
And I, 4 years.
Oh, and you can't like every comment Kenneth, it kind of diminishes the cachet. ;)
In no grandiose way, because I do like every comment. I do not intend to like comments to make anyone feel special. Only to let people know that they're being heard. Everyone here is of equal value and importance, including myself. I notice other people in my position almost act as if they have a God touch with who they choose to reply to or like or retweet. We're all equal here, I just happen to be the writer, and I'm grateful for everybody's presence whether we agree or disagree.
Still gives a tiny warm fuzzy to get the like though, even though EVERYONE gets one, we have all been well conditioned by social media at this point, lol.
I liked both of your comments which makes me confused I guess, but if I learned anything from the Dao De Ching, it is that paradox's exist all over the place. Life is one big paradox. Two opposite opinions can also both be correct.
Unless one is not mine, lol.
Boy, I sure hope so, I mean, who hasn't killed someone while racing...?
I was just reading this before I came on to your site. I would think if I was about to be a top 5 pick in the NFL I would not being drinking and driving or anything else that would jeopardize my opportunity. This is a total lack of maturity and judgement on his part.
I also know premium talent to play a game is very valuable. I don't see him dropping far. Perhaps being apart of something like this will be a wake up call for him. I am sure attending his teammates funeral and morning his friends deaths is a sobering reality check
I won't speak to what happened to that night because I don't know, but generally speaking with any prospect, I agree that it's best to look to players who don't do anything to jeopardize their careers or lives or lives of others.
I agree, and in a perfect world that is all that would matter. But we are talking about a billion dollar sport and a player that has immense talent to play such sport.
We agree, I don't see a need for a "but"!
My first thought is I never bought the idea of DT at picks 1-4. Anderson as top 4 pick yes, Young yes, Stroud maybe but my thought was that either the Bears would be better off drafting a left tackle. There a 2/3 left tackles deserving of the pick and had no idea why either the Cardinals or the Bears whose offensive lines truly are bad would not take a LT if Anderson was gone.
Carter made sense to me for Seattle though because of his ability to be a force in the middle that we have not had since Cortez Kennedy. Don’t get me wrong Carter is a very different player but his later movement skills allow him to cover three running gaps and force the Qb out of the pocket on passing plays. Pete can build a defense around that. I was not that concerned that Carter got gassed in the Ohio State game because he played significantly more snaps than normal.
The racing though that scares the hell out of me. This guy is looking at 35 million dollars guaranteed in a few months and taking these kind of chances. What is he going to do when he actually gets the 35 million? I doubt I will be the only concerned. In the end I would not be surprised if the question now is not whether the Seahawks draft him at 5 but whether they draft him at 20. is falling we are not going to get much if anything to trade
Certainly my research suggests that DT prospects of great value can be found outside the top-10 and sometimes after round 1. With Seattle's extra picks and lots of depth there, it would seem like the Seahawks could wait.
PC/JS have talked about bringing in high character guys prior to last years draft and this year. I think Carter is a very long shot. Of course, I think there is a draft position they would give him a look ... But at 5 it seems like it most likely will not happen.
This is not great news for the value of the 5 pick (as someone could've selected him prior to 5).
Speaking so much of character this year, I agree it would be off-brand to now turn around and pick Carter. Whether he's guilty or not-guilty, this will follow him.
Too often, NFL teams ask “is this someone want to bring into the building” when the question should be “is this someone we Will take responsibility for bringing into our community.” Malik McDowell was about the building; reckless driving is about the community. This doesn’t mean that, should the allegations bear out, Carter is undraftable under any circumstances. But whoever takes him should be awfully certain that he has learned a lesson.
Great point.
I don't want to get carried away with assumptions, but the fact that the character concerns comment came before the incident makes this worse in my mind. To me, this suggests a pattern of behavior rather than an isolated (tragic) incident.
Yes, to have the comment and then the incident, it's difficult to manage in conjunction.
This guy screams Malcolm McDowell's character concerns and all the ugly Frank Clark history.
Frank Clark was a good pick, there was no two ways around it. As a football player, as football business, the pick worked for the Seahawks. Malik McDowell saw his stock fall from maybe being a top-10 pick before his final college season to the second round because of character concerns, so it is definitely a cautionary tale.
The issue with Malcolm is that he’s 79 years old.
So many times I've typed that but caught it in the past, it was inevitable I'd slip up.
Sorry--I couldn't resist!
Ha, no it was funny.
Jalen Carter is my biggest "why is he ranked so high?" prospect in years. He's huge, he's a brick wall, etc. etc., but there are behemoth run stuffers in the draft every year. 9 sacks, 3 batted passes and 13 QB hits in 3 years. That's barely better than an average season for Calijah Kancey. He picked up a QB with one arm. He looks great getting off the bus. He has character questions. Rob Staton pointed out that he's out of shape even in bowl games and Carter even admitted his conditioning was poor. And PFF has him ranked #1 overall.
I can only imagine that like Travon Walker, analysts feel that Georgia doesn't put the players in position to rack up big stats.
I haven't followed the draft prospects that closely this year but I feel like people stopped talking about Carter's negatives in January and I'm not sure why. I assume a couple of the top draft pundits anointed him in their mocks and commentary but I really don't know when he suddenly became a top blue chip prospect.
He has been touted as a sure-fire NFL prospect since coming to Georgia. I recall people saying that if he was in the 2022 class he'd be a top 5 pick and so forth. He was very much on my radar as I watched Georgia games (and was consistently underwhelmed). When he picked up Jayden Daniels, Twitter went wild. Mina Kimes and others reposted the photo saying what a beast he is like he did stuff like that once every series. I don't get it. He may end up being the best defender in the league, and Bijan (who I've praised for a calendar year in these comments) may flame out but if your production is limited on college, why should it be expected to improve against insanely better competition?
I am trying to check myself and not do exactly what I complain about some draft pundits doing. There are those that completely change their minds on prospects and then others who once they say "prospect X (often Will Levis or AR15) is great!" can't even temper that opinion after seeing new information. If anyone can explain why I should reassess Carter (or Robinson, Kancey, etc.) by all means do so. My hit rate on who I wanted the Seahawks to draft in relation to how their careers turned out is historically all over the place.
After being burned to a crisp taking Malik McDowell in the first round and never playing a snap, I doubt PCJS make the mistake of drafting another player that high with maturity/character concerns. The 2022 draft class was a lesson in taking high character guys and I would bet that approach continues.
I am not so sure yet that Pete will never come near another prospect with character concerns. But a top-5 pick surely would seem to go against their recent comments on character.
McDowell was a 2nd round pick #35 overall. And was never rated as a first round pick.
My bad. He was the top Seahawks pick that year and for some reason I remember him as Round 1.
The thing about McDowell were the "he takes plays off" and conditioning concerns prior to the draft. The kid was immature and not ready for prime time (obviously).