Great article! Agreed! I always say, if it works, don't fix it. Ben's plays worked before and he schemed plays to get WR's open and complete passes that should win that game. Without the critical dropped passes on 3rd and 4th down, even with the fumble and helmet bounce reception by Aiyuk, they should have won. You throw the ball to players that are wide open and make millions, that drop the ball and it's not the fault of the OC. Ben Johnson is a phenomenal OC and I hope the next Seahawks HC.
Despite all the brilliant game analysis and press con scouting about Johnson, MacDonald et al. I am way way more concerned about the draft, possible trades and current roster signings. Sorry not sorry to be focused elsewhere besides the usual crazy smart SJ post and way better informed Joes than I'll ever be.
OK, so the next HC is either Ben Johnson or Mike Kafka. What do we do about a super awesome DC? As has been pointed out, a great DC could have a bigger impact on the team next year than the head coach. Who's the next big deal linebacker coach that we promote to DC?
It's been a struggle for the Seahawks to have a great defense even with Pete Carroll. So whoever the next HC is, whether he's offense or defense, will hope to hit a home run with the coordinator(s) he hires. I think the DC pool is a little larger than the OC pool, including Vrabel, Staley, Rivera, Zimmer, Frazier, etc.
You made your case, as usual, and I certainly hope you are correct. We are here, and this is now. That is all we know for sure. Now, Pete is gone. That is a done deal. Embrace the future. This will make the coming off season even more exciting with plenty of hopium.
Don't fret about the competition. BE the competition. That's what I saw in Ben Johnson's play calling yesterday. But for execution, it was working. MacDonald slapped the Niners around a few months back. Read them like a book. I gave up on Geno when I saw he would not ever beat the 9rs, AKA, no Super Bowl. I had a hunerd bucks on the Lions to make it. Money well spent, as I had 2 teams all year on a 22 to 1 bet. That won't happen often, as in decade-often. Gave me the focus to find you guys here. Thanks Folks.
Yeah, I don't place much of the blame for the loss to the Niners on Goff. Goff executed those two 4th down plays about as well as he could and the odds certainly favored at least ONE of those to be successful. And the fumble... Gibbs was fantastic in the game except for that one mistake, and it was a killer. Still, I agree with the premise that if the Lions get to the SB in the next three years as a young, talented team matures, Goff is not likely the reason why or even the QB when/if it happens. Also, the Niners will not be able to overcome the Chiefs with Mahomes, and a SB loser Niners team might collapse into salary cap hell next year (fingers crossed).
The NFL these days LOVES offense, and it makes complete sense that you try to find an offensive mastermind to run your team, and call plays on game day. Johnson? Kafka? Place your bets.
It was, in my daughter's words, a dumb call to go for it on 4th down and not take the field goal. Points are a coaches best friend. But that was the HC's call,, not Johnson's.
Your girl has good instincts. A FG would have negated SF's first 7 minute drive in the 3rd quarter, where they managed to get a FG. That's 25% of the second half. Dan would have put them back into desperation mode with even less time to work magic. This game was no longer about finding the Will to Win. The Team did that, just getting here. Dan Campbell no doubt knows he failed his Field General test. But, then, what if the FG was missed? All that matters is what the Team thought. I think they wanted a FG...
Yeah, I also didn't blame Jared Goff. He's just not special, whereas a special quarterback would raise the ceiling of the Lions considerably. If they had Matthew Stafford yesterday, they very well might win and by a significant margin.
Haha. Whenever I see a track record like that one over many years, I ask myself what they all have in common: The Browns have horrid ownership and Jimmy Haslam is calling too many shots.
Hopefully the Seahawks next HC and next ownership group is not as bad as that.
It’s going to be Ben Johnson. Why? I did the extensive analysis of watching about three minutes of press conferences with Johnson, MacDonald, and Kafka. Johnson seems like he tilts the room the hardest, and that’s what will sway Schneider.
Think of when JS talks about players. He gets a little excited when he talks about their skills. He gets really excited when he talks about their charisma. Ben is the most captivating. Yes, we cover moving expenses...
Good eyes... I agree. Johnson may feel The Job isn't yet done, as we can not discount the effect this Team has had on Detroit and the greater area. Civic Duty can be a powerful influence on the human heart. They may very well see this as a story that needs telling. If he comes with us, I expect they will give MacDonald a day or two to maximize his options. Nice guys do that. I figger by Thursday, we'll know...
BTW, I watched their press conferences before their final games. I wanted to see their attitude going into a game rather than their reactions after the fact.
Seriously, everyone interested should watch just a minute or two of each candidate at the microphone and think about who draws the biggest crowd when they walk into a room and start speaking. I think John will value that more than Xs and 0s from any one game.
I think this is why Dan Quinn is still a contender. Regardless of how he coaches, he’s got that Q factor.
I feel stuck in a time loop until the Seahawks name a head coach. I want to talk about the future so badly, but need to get that sorted out! Hope that's tomorrow.
" Because if tomorrow Patrick Mahomes was on the Steelers and Josh Allen was on the Bucs, I’d put my money on a Super Bowl matchup of the Steelers and Bucs."
...and if they could only afford receivers known as "Thumbs", "Butterfingers", "Hop-a-long", and "Gramps", you'd lose it.
Now I'm on a roll.
A Center called "Twitch". Guards "Loosey" and "Goosey". Starting tackles known as "The Kleenex Kids". A Halfback referred to as "Buttwipe". An RB called "Felicia".
I need to roll the bike down the driveway. I'll get back to you.
Ben Johnson may be a great play caller--I’m skeptical that there can be such a thing in today’s game--but he sure didn’t show it in what turned out to be a critical sequence.
SF opened the second half moving the ball, but Detroit’s defense stiffened and held the Niners to a FG. The Lions then drove into Niner territory by passing to Laporta and handing off to Montgomery. They had 3rd-and-4 at the SF 30 and we know that Campbell had no intention of trying an FG if it came to fourth down.
I don’t question that decision at all. What I do question are the next two plays: A handoff to St Brown (2 yds) and an INC to Reynolds, which I think was a drop. The Lions lost a great chance to go up 31-10. If you’re going to run on third down in that situation, it’s got to be Montgomery or Gibbs, right? Those two had been running at will. If you pass on fourth down, it’s to Laporta, St Brown, or Gibbs. This was the kind of play calling that had commenters here calling for Shane Waldron’s head. But Ben Johnson is a genius? Something I don’t want in the next Seahawks coach is a guy who overthinks.
I saw 'the drop' as doing something they least expected. Kept them back on their heals, guessing. The receiver was open, after all. Good call. Good design. Poor execution. Hope had little to do with it, which Waldron depended on all year.
Their Defense no doubt thought the same thing. Too risky, like Decker catching a TD in Dallas. Hit 'em where they ain't. Reynolds didn't just drop a pass. He took the wind out of both sides of the ball. I suspect he failed Campbell's 'Will to Win' test and will be traded.
I've followed a good chunk of Josh Reynolds career, since his days with the Rams, and must say there's nothing surprising about him dropping a critical pass. Of all the people who should know that, it's Jared Goff. Not that he shouldn't have thrown it or whatever, but the outcome comes as no surprise. It's not quite as bad as throwing to Ricardo Lockette to win a Super Bowl, however.
I don't agree with your takeaway but I do agree that Johnson may hold some accountability in that complete collapse (on both sides of the ball). In most any random regular season week's slate of games, there will be so many "poorly-called plays" that impacted the outcome. But sometimes running on 3rd and 6 with a backup RB works because the look is that DJ Dallas is usually in to block and it caught them off-guard, etc. You look like a court jester if that gets blown up 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage, though.
A few plays and calls that change outcomes seem to have all criticism towards just the play call, without mention of the execution. Plays that didn't work out have a lot of moving parts that I won't pretend to understand, including the player's assignments. Plays that go absolutely terribly are sometimes the only ones where we can see in real time someone getting beat or making a terrible decision. It takes things like Lamar throwing into triple coverage to become narrative-writers against the player.
I'll continue to say good play, wrong player on that one. If Lockette had extended his hands instead of trying to body catch Russell's throw, there is no interception.
Yes, so many variables too. If that #8 guy hangs onto the two 3rd down conversions that hit him in the hands, new set of downs etc, does Johnson continue to look like a genius? If Campbell kicks the field goals and then the Niners have to start from their 25 knowing it's a 3 score game again, do they have to be riskier? So much of football is execution and situation. Not saying Johnson couldn't have called a better game, but I'd remind everyone this is the same Niners, at home, who made us look silly...
On the one hand, don’t count on these guys to be perfect. On the other, how does anyone justify a handoff to Amon-Ra St. Brown at a pivotal point when there alternatives that have been working time and again?
If Shane Waldron gets Caleb Williams, it's an interesting assignment. Caleb notoriously excels out of structure and struggled (recently at least) with running the designed plays, it'll be interesting to see how long it takes for the Bears to get him to run a successful offense sans his improvisation skills.
Just imagine another 1rst round QB complain about his coaches getting in the way of what makes them special. It's gonna be pretty bad look if the Bears fail with Fields and Williams. I imagine Geno, love him or hate him, is far more coachable than any rookie QB. Good luck Shane!
Great article! Agreed! I always say, if it works, don't fix it. Ben's plays worked before and he schemed plays to get WR's open and complete passes that should win that game. Without the critical dropped passes on 3rd and 4th down, even with the fumble and helmet bounce reception by Aiyuk, they should have won. You throw the ball to players that are wide open and make millions, that drop the ball and it's not the fault of the OC. Ben Johnson is a phenomenal OC and I hope the next Seahawks HC.
Despite all the brilliant game analysis and press con scouting about Johnson, MacDonald et al. I am way way more concerned about the draft, possible trades and current roster signings. Sorry not sorry to be focused elsewhere besides the usual crazy smart SJ post and way better informed Joes than I'll ever be.
Me too. I've got things in the hopper, just waiting/hoping for a decision in the next day or two.
The HC will have something to say about all those things, don't get too far ahead of yourself.
Though evidently way less than PC did. I'm not ahead of anyone, I'm patiently waiting.
OK, so the next HC is either Ben Johnson or Mike Kafka. What do we do about a super awesome DC? As has been pointed out, a great DC could have a bigger impact on the team next year than the head coach. Who's the next big deal linebacker coach that we promote to DC?
Or Mike McDonald
Well, OK. Then the problem becomes the next OC. What TE coach do we hire?
It's been a struggle for the Seahawks to have a great defense even with Pete Carroll. So whoever the next HC is, whether he's offense or defense, will hope to hit a home run with the coordinator(s) he hires. I think the DC pool is a little larger than the OC pool, including Vrabel, Staley, Rivera, Zimmer, Frazier, etc.
They’d definitely look for an experienced guy. Wasn’t Wade Phillips McVey’s first DC?
You made your case, as usual, and I certainly hope you are correct. We are here, and this is now. That is all we know for sure. Now, Pete is gone. That is a done deal. Embrace the future. This will make the coming off season even more exciting with plenty of hopium.
Puff Puff.
LOL
Don't fret about the competition. BE the competition. That's what I saw in Ben Johnson's play calling yesterday. But for execution, it was working. MacDonald slapped the Niners around a few months back. Read them like a book. I gave up on Geno when I saw he would not ever beat the 9rs, AKA, no Super Bowl. I had a hunerd bucks on the Lions to make it. Money well spent, as I had 2 teams all year on a 22 to 1 bet. That won't happen often, as in decade-often. Gave me the focus to find you guys here. Thanks Folks.
Yeah, I don't place much of the blame for the loss to the Niners on Goff. Goff executed those two 4th down plays about as well as he could and the odds certainly favored at least ONE of those to be successful. And the fumble... Gibbs was fantastic in the game except for that one mistake, and it was a killer. Still, I agree with the premise that if the Lions get to the SB in the next three years as a young, talented team matures, Goff is not likely the reason why or even the QB when/if it happens. Also, the Niners will not be able to overcome the Chiefs with Mahomes, and a SB loser Niners team might collapse into salary cap hell next year (fingers crossed).
The NFL these days LOVES offense, and it makes complete sense that you try to find an offensive mastermind to run your team, and call plays on game day. Johnson? Kafka? Place your bets.
Johnson
It was, in my daughter's words, a dumb call to go for it on 4th down and not take the field goal. Points are a coaches best friend. But that was the HC's call,, not Johnson's.
Your girl has good instincts. A FG would have negated SF's first 7 minute drive in the 3rd quarter, where they managed to get a FG. That's 25% of the second half. Dan would have put them back into desperation mode with even less time to work magic. This game was no longer about finding the Will to Win. The Team did that, just getting here. Dan Campbell no doubt knows he failed his Field General test. But, then, what if the FG was missed? All that matters is what the Team thought. I think they wanted a FG...
Yeah, I also didn't blame Jared Goff. He's just not special, whereas a special quarterback would raise the ceiling of the Lions considerably. If they had Matthew Stafford yesterday, they very well might win and by a significant margin.
Got to try ... But can be tough:
https://x.com/H_Grove/status/1066727476787904513?s=20
Haha. Whenever I see a track record like that one over many years, I ask myself what they all have in common: The Browns have horrid ownership and Jimmy Haslam is calling too many shots.
Hopefully the Seahawks next HC and next ownership group is not as bad as that.
Canales is in for it in Carolina...
Ha ... Yeah... I would think they should be much better!
That jersey just cracks me up. Very creative and can feel the misery.
Joe, I'm ready for the new coach to be named! Either Ben Johnson or other. Lets get this thing going.
It’s going to be Ben Johnson. Why? I did the extensive analysis of watching about three minutes of press conferences with Johnson, MacDonald, and Kafka. Johnson seems like he tilts the room the hardest, and that’s what will sway Schneider.
Think of when JS talks about players. He gets a little excited when he talks about their skills. He gets really excited when he talks about their charisma. Ben is the most captivating. Yes, we cover moving expenses...
Good eyes... I agree. Johnson may feel The Job isn't yet done, as we can not discount the effect this Team has had on Detroit and the greater area. Civic Duty can be a powerful influence on the human heart. They may very well see this as a story that needs telling. If he comes with us, I expect they will give MacDonald a day or two to maximize his options. Nice guys do that. I figger by Thursday, we'll know...
BTW, I watched their press conferences before their final games. I wanted to see their attitude going into a game rather than their reactions after the fact.
Seriously, everyone interested should watch just a minute or two of each candidate at the microphone and think about who draws the biggest crowd when they walk into a room and start speaking. I think John will value that more than Xs and 0s from any one game.
I think this is why Dan Quinn is still a contender. Regardless of how he coaches, he’s got that Q factor.
This means a lot more (to employers) for a HC than most people think it does, for JS and beyond.
Oh, the anticipation! We're finally gonna find out soon. Which team from Washington will make an announcement first?
I feel stuck in a time loop until the Seahawks name a head coach. I want to talk about the future so badly, but need to get that sorted out! Hope that's tomorrow.
I'm tired of waiting, too....but the anticipation is pretty fun.
" Because if tomorrow Patrick Mahomes was on the Steelers and Josh Allen was on the Bucs, I’d put my money on a Super Bowl matchup of the Steelers and Bucs."
...and if they could only afford receivers known as "Thumbs", "Butterfingers", "Hop-a-long", and "Gramps", you'd lose it.
Now I'm on a roll.
A Center called "Twitch". Guards "Loosey" and "Goosey". Starting tackles known as "The Kleenex Kids". A Halfback referred to as "Buttwipe". An RB called "Felicia".
I need to roll the bike down the driveway. I'll get back to you.
Or, perhaps, not.
LOL! The Mariners once had outfielders known as Kid, Pee Wee, and Tiny (Griffey, Briley, and Felder).
Ben Johnson may be a great play caller--I’m skeptical that there can be such a thing in today’s game--but he sure didn’t show it in what turned out to be a critical sequence.
SF opened the second half moving the ball, but Detroit’s defense stiffened and held the Niners to a FG. The Lions then drove into Niner territory by passing to Laporta and handing off to Montgomery. They had 3rd-and-4 at the SF 30 and we know that Campbell had no intention of trying an FG if it came to fourth down.
I don’t question that decision at all. What I do question are the next two plays: A handoff to St Brown (2 yds) and an INC to Reynolds, which I think was a drop. The Lions lost a great chance to go up 31-10. If you’re going to run on third down in that situation, it’s got to be Montgomery or Gibbs, right? Those two had been running at will. If you pass on fourth down, it’s to Laporta, St Brown, or Gibbs. This was the kind of play calling that had commenters here calling for Shane Waldron’s head. But Ben Johnson is a genius? Something I don’t want in the next Seahawks coach is a guy who overthinks.
I saw 'the drop' as doing something they least expected. Kept them back on their heals, guessing. The receiver was open, after all. Good call. Good design. Poor execution. Hope had little to do with it, which Waldron depended on all year.
But why pass it to Reynolds in the first place when there are three legit alternatives?
Their Defense no doubt thought the same thing. Too risky, like Decker catching a TD in Dallas. Hit 'em where they ain't. Reynolds didn't just drop a pass. He took the wind out of both sides of the ball. I suspect he failed Campbell's 'Will to Win' test and will be traded.
Because he'd performed well in the last game?
I've followed a good chunk of Josh Reynolds career, since his days with the Rams, and must say there's nothing surprising about him dropping a critical pass. Of all the people who should know that, it's Jared Goff. Not that he shouldn't have thrown it or whatever, but the outcome comes as no surprise. It's not quite as bad as throwing to Ricardo Lockette to win a Super Bowl, however.
I was just thinking about "Yes-E" while reading this comment thread, and there he is.
True that!! The OC can't catch a pass.
I don't agree with your takeaway but I do agree that Johnson may hold some accountability in that complete collapse (on both sides of the ball). In most any random regular season week's slate of games, there will be so many "poorly-called plays" that impacted the outcome. But sometimes running on 3rd and 6 with a backup RB works because the look is that DJ Dallas is usually in to block and it caught them off-guard, etc. You look like a court jester if that gets blown up 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage, though.
A few plays and calls that change outcomes seem to have all criticism towards just the play call, without mention of the execution. Plays that didn't work out have a lot of moving parts that I won't pretend to understand, including the player's assignments. Plays that go absolutely terribly are sometimes the only ones where we can see in real time someone getting beat or making a terrible decision. It takes things like Lamar throwing into triple coverage to become narrative-writers against the player.
True enough. You could say that about, say, a pass to Ricardo Lockett.
I'll continue to say good play, wrong player on that one. If Lockette had extended his hands instead of trying to body catch Russell's throw, there is no interception.
I’ve defended the play call. But with the game on the line, you have to go with your best—get the ball to Marshawn or let Russell keep it.
Haha, made my Lockette comment before I saw this one.
Yes, so many variables too. If that #8 guy hangs onto the two 3rd down conversions that hit him in the hands, new set of downs etc, does Johnson continue to look like a genius? If Campbell kicks the field goals and then the Niners have to start from their 25 knowing it's a 3 score game again, do they have to be riskier? So much of football is execution and situation. Not saying Johnson couldn't have called a better game, but I'd remind everyone this is the same Niners, at home, who made us look silly...
Yeah, let's base our decision on one series or one half of football.
Shane Waldron has been pilloried for less.
On the one hand, don’t count on these guys to be perfect. On the other, how does anyone justify a handoff to Amon-Ra St. Brown at a pivotal point when there alternatives that have been working time and again?
Yeah, Shane Waldron may well work some magic for his new team and then the Seahawks would be criticised for letting him go. Who knows?
If Shane Waldron gets Caleb Williams, it's an interesting assignment. Caleb notoriously excels out of structure and struggled (recently at least) with running the designed plays, it'll be interesting to see how long it takes for the Bears to get him to run a successful offense sans his improvisation skills.
Just imagine another 1rst round QB complain about his coaches getting in the way of what makes them special. It's gonna be pretty bad look if the Bears fail with Fields and Williams. I imagine Geno, love him or hate him, is far more coachable than any rookie QB. Good luck Shane!