Wow! Totally an eye opener! I didn’t realize the extent of the carnage at the cornerback position until you broke it down like this. Great work!!!
If K9 lives up to his potential that you had discussed and somehow be within striking distance of the likes of Taylor and Jones, I’m guessing wildly that his play could be worth 1-2 wins. If we think that garopolo/baker is worth 1-2 wins over lock, paying a meager 2nd round rookie deal to a RB like K9 seems like an excellent ROI vs paying $15-20 mm to QB.
Regardless, criticizing a team for drafting skill position players in the second round or lower is really silly.
Finally, my follow up question is whether the significant marginal difference in play at CB position makes it more worth it to justify the risk with using HIGH picks vs at RB position just like in fantasy football draft. The drop off from a starting CB to a backup is a lot more than from a starting RB to his backup.
Pete/John value RBs more than CBs; just look at our draft history but why do you think the Seahawks value safties but not corners? Earl Thomas was the 14th pick in the draft while Shaquill Griffin in the 3rd round was our highest CB draft pick under this regime. Richard Sherman, easily our best ever CB and a likely HOFer, was the second highest paid CB behind Darelle Revis for one season. In 2014 he made $3.6 mil, 2015 $12.2, 2016 $14.8, 2017 $13.6, and in 2018 Sherman was gone and Coleman top the list at $2.9 mil. The current payroll is an exaggerated version of what we've done since 2010.
That obscession led them astray in trading for Jamal Adams. Bad the day the trade was made and continue to get worse. A hard hitting safety with bad coverage skills and seriously damaged shoulder is like a carpenter without a hammer and nails. Glad Ken didn’t write about that deal in this discussion. I would have to cry again. Just can’t wait for us move on from this disaster and I don’t have to be reminded about it every Sunday.
If somehow we ended up with a top 10-pick from the broncos and we finished 9-7 this coming season, PC and JS would have rebuilt a lot of goodwill among Hawks fans. That would be a perfect time to release Adams and write off the sunken cost.
I'm not quite ready to join your Adams armegedon. Adams was a pro-bowler twice and the 2020 version was great. Pete/John wouldn't have signed him to the big extension just to justify the trade, they aren't under that kind of pressure. I expect Adams to have a big impact this year as they return him to what he does best. No more dropping linemen into coverage and a more faster, more aggressive defensive should be fun. Fingers crossed.
Opposing coaches and players don't see him the way you do. They have to account for one of the best athletes on the field, and receivers need to know where he's at because they can't afford the violent collision he brings.
Yes, it has cost him health, but it's not determined he's completely injured goods not able to ply his craft. Yes, there's reason for long-term concern about a shoulder on a violent player that plays with the abandonment he does, but it's not Carson's neck. Yet. We'll see how he does off surgery. If he can't go, then you get your wish and he'll take his millions into retirement, but if he's healthy and schemed well, Seattle puts one of the better players on the field each week in Adams. Why someone wants to get rid of a really good football player is curious.
What evidence have you seen to suggest that opposing coaches and receivers are scheming plays away from him in the passing game?
I’m not debating whether he’s a good player or not. My opinion is he will not physically be able to come back and play at high level for the next years.
As Joe knows I am a huge supporter of the runninback. Somehow I wish they could get paid better for their work in the first four years. I wouldn't say I was sorry for them as it would be great to have a 4 year span where you made 3rd round money, which is far better than what the average Joe makes. I never thought Griffin was worth near the contract he signed with the Jags. The main reason was he very rarely got any ints. Reed was worth more than what Seattle offered but not worth what he got. I did admire both players courage in tackling. I guess I grew up in the era where the runningback was the star, and there is every reason to believe our backs will be stars this years
I agree that running backs are comparatively hosed when it comes to contracts. They get all hell beaten out of them even before they get to the NFL and then have to put in another four (or five) years before franchise tag / free agency.
Amen. And to add to all of that, once they reach free agency, everyone is worried about the miles they've racked up and won't offer nearly what would match their production. And God forbid they do get injured. It would be nice to make 2nd or 3rd round money for 3 years, but that's nothing in the sense of generational wealth. It's enough to retire comfortably off of, but if you never walk right again -or worse, have brain issues later in life, it hardly seems enough.
Did not know "oftentimes" was a word. Thanks for broadening my vocab Joe.
Wow! Totally an eye opener! I didn’t realize the extent of the carnage at the cornerback position until you broke it down like this. Great work!!!
If K9 lives up to his potential that you had discussed and somehow be within striking distance of the likes of Taylor and Jones, I’m guessing wildly that his play could be worth 1-2 wins. If we think that garopolo/baker is worth 1-2 wins over lock, paying a meager 2nd round rookie deal to a RB like K9 seems like an excellent ROI vs paying $15-20 mm to QB.
Regardless, criticizing a team for drafting skill position players in the second round or lower is really silly.
Finally, my follow up question is whether the significant marginal difference in play at CB position makes it more worth it to justify the risk with using HIGH picks vs at RB position just like in fantasy football draft. The drop off from a starting CB to a backup is a lot more than from a starting RB to his backup.
Pete/John value RBs more than CBs; just look at our draft history but why do you think the Seahawks value safties but not corners? Earl Thomas was the 14th pick in the draft while Shaquill Griffin in the 3rd round was our highest CB draft pick under this regime. Richard Sherman, easily our best ever CB and a likely HOFer, was the second highest paid CB behind Darelle Revis for one season. In 2014 he made $3.6 mil, 2015 $12.2, 2016 $14.8, 2017 $13.6, and in 2018 Sherman was gone and Coleman top the list at $2.9 mil. The current payroll is an exaggerated version of what we've done since 2010.
That obscession led them astray in trading for Jamal Adams. Bad the day the trade was made and continue to get worse. A hard hitting safety with bad coverage skills and seriously damaged shoulder is like a carpenter without a hammer and nails. Glad Ken didn’t write about that deal in this discussion. I would have to cry again. Just can’t wait for us move on from this disaster and I don’t have to be reminded about it every Sunday.
If somehow we ended up with a top 10-pick from the broncos and we finished 9-7 this coming season, PC and JS would have rebuilt a lot of goodwill among Hawks fans. That would be a perfect time to release Adams and write off the sunken cost.
I'm not quite ready to join your Adams armegedon. Adams was a pro-bowler twice and the 2020 version was great. Pete/John wouldn't have signed him to the big extension just to justify the trade, they aren't under that kind of pressure. I expect Adams to have a big impact this year as they return him to what he does best. No more dropping linemen into coverage and a more faster, more aggressive defensive should be fun. Fingers crossed.
I agree. They have up big draft capital, but they've cut losses before.
They know they have a ball player.
Opposing coaches and players don't see him the way you do. They have to account for one of the best athletes on the field, and receivers need to know where he's at because they can't afford the violent collision he brings.
Yes, it has cost him health, but it's not determined he's completely injured goods not able to ply his craft. Yes, there's reason for long-term concern about a shoulder on a violent player that plays with the abandonment he does, but it's not Carson's neck. Yet. We'll see how he does off surgery. If he can't go, then you get your wish and he'll take his millions into retirement, but if he's healthy and schemed well, Seattle puts one of the better players on the field each week in Adams. Why someone wants to get rid of a really good football player is curious.
What evidence have you seen to suggest that opposing coaches and receivers are scheming plays away from him in the passing game?
I’m not debating whether he’s a good player or not. My opinion is he will not physically be able to come back and play at high level for the next years.
*for the next two years
As Joe knows I am a huge supporter of the runninback. Somehow I wish they could get paid better for their work in the first four years. I wouldn't say I was sorry for them as it would be great to have a 4 year span where you made 3rd round money, which is far better than what the average Joe makes. I never thought Griffin was worth near the contract he signed with the Jags. The main reason was he very rarely got any ints. Reed was worth more than what Seattle offered but not worth what he got. I did admire both players courage in tackling. I guess I grew up in the era where the runningback was the star, and there is every reason to believe our backs will be stars this years
I agree that running backs are comparatively hosed when it comes to contracts. They get all hell beaten out of them even before they get to the NFL and then have to put in another four (or five) years before franchise tag / free agency.
Amen. And to add to all of that, once they reach free agency, everyone is worried about the miles they've racked up and won't offer nearly what would match their production. And God forbid they do get injured. It would be nice to make 2nd or 3rd round money for 3 years, but that's nothing in the sense of generational wealth. It's enough to retire comfortably off of, but if you never walk right again -or worse, have brain issues later in life, it hardly seems enough.
So true. But at least better than the days before free agency when the players got slightly better pay than long-haul truckers.
Despite their short careers, there are more running backs in the HOF than any other position. Period. End of story.
Fans love running backs and I don't see that stopping any time soon.