Not that anybody on this thread really cares, but the Apple Cup is tied at the third quarter, 12 minute mark and the WSU Cougars clearly won "The most important 8 minutes in football." Lets see how it ends.
All I know is the offense looks horrible. Shane better get it together or he’ll be gone before Geno. It seems 11 and 12 man formations are a strength. You can get creative from any formation in football is my belief. They might as well run the the Wishbone. Geez this season is so frustrating! May the 12s be with you! 🏈🏈Go Seahawks🏈🏈
Funny that you mentioned the wishbone. When K9 and Charbs were both healthy I thought I’d like to see some wing T formations. Multiple fakes with either RB, the QB or a receiver running the ball. I think Shanahan has the 49s run a couple of plays that are similar to wing T and every time I see one it gashes the defense it’s run against. One of them looks like a sweep, but the receiver cuts inside, similar to Bobo’s rushing TD (which I he improvised).
I feel like classifying the offense as "one of the league's worst" is just flat-out wrong. I think as a fanbase we've been bracing ourselves for the wheels to come off so much, and have been exposed to such a high level of doomcasting and naysaying, that we've let all that negativity cloud our judgement. Most importantly, because the offense is DISAPPOINTING, we've conflated that with it being terrible. That simply ignores what's going on in the rest of the league.
In order to be "one of the worst" offenses in the NFL, we would have to be a bottom-5 offense. Just of the top of my head, I would say that the following squads are notably worse: both NY teams, LV, CAR, ATL, NE, TEN, PIT, WAS. By PPG, the Hawks currently rank 19th. That isn't "one of the worst", its MID. Its disappointing. It's underperforming, it's in desperate need of improvement, it's frustrating. I'm not saying the team shouldn't be criticised, I'm not saying we don't have the right to be frustrated, but let's stay accurate.
In the NFL, there are quarterbacks that elevate the whole team. Pete Carol Seems to feel that’s the team should be out there doing their best to help Geno Smith. I see nothing but constant finger-pointing until the quarterback situation is straightened out.
Saw Colby open over the middle again last night but clearly not part of the play. Geno could have got rid of the ball quickly on that play and didn’t. Against a defense like that, we need TEs with quick over the middle plays. I liked another question last night, “what’s the offensive identity”. We don’t have one. I counter anyone who says PC is a running coach. We’re not and really never have been. Bummed
I agree, it’s time to take the training wheels off. I would rather go down swinging, with the risk it fails spectacularly, vs. being conservative. It’s time to push our chips in and see what we have.
The stats shared on Metcalf are notable and he has not established himself as the guy you go to in the clutch (it’s still Lockett) but JSN seems like he is “that guy”.
I’d rather us go for broke to figure out which players we can continue building around.
Yeah, I agree its weird the TEs are so under-utilized, that's been going on way too long. But this offense has much bigger problems than specific routes run and who is getting targets, especially a rookie WR. I know you chose to isolate this comment and expound on it but if this was Pete's biggest criticism for the offense, the next few weeks will be really ugly.
After halftime, we came out and threw slants and crossing routes that marched us right down the field, then not again. Each time I saw an endzone view of our offense, there were no combo route concepts being run, just a few stand-alone routes to the edges. I think that calling more slanting, slashing, and crossing routes, coupled with RB chip and releases probably would make a difference
Every time we've done those things, we've moved the ball much easier.
If nothing else, it's about time Pete told the public that he is demanding the team to try something else, cause we see 90% the same stuff every week with a few wrinkles thrown in to make our offense look like they're trying something bew when they aren't.
I'm not sure it's Waldron avoiding the middle of the field but maybe a mandate from Pete. He's so incredibly risk-adverse, those middle of the field throws are more easily intercepted, and Geno has been less accurate for a while now. FG has done some commentary on Waldron's tendencies and weak playcalling, I think there's a sound argument he is coming up short as an OC, but it's near impossible to know how much is Waldron vs how much is Pete. But certain attributes seem consistent over three OCs and two starting QBs, which implies the one constant (Pete) may be part of the issue.
Fair point. I would say that Geno's outside throws have been pretty risky on their own, too. Someone else commented that Pete is always preaching running game, defense, and explosive plays, but we haven't see the running plays called this year, and I totally agree with that. Maybe we are seeing Pete publicly pressuring Shane and privately demanding he change stuff up. Maybe laying some ground work with the 12s to prepare for a Geno benching and a play calling change or a full-on OC change? I don't think it's Pete's M.O., but I can hope.
Waldron has been calling pass vs run 2:1 for a weeks and weeks now. The run game has become less effective with OL issues and now Walker's injury, but he was calling a ton more passes long before the run game regressed. I think they are calling shot plays though, Geno holding onto the damn ball waiting for routes to develop has been a thing.
I can't recall Pete ever firing a coordinator in-season, Geno being benched has a higher probability but it won't matter. An offense this dysfunctional won't be fixed by inserting Lock at this point. These issues should have been diagnosed and addressed a month ago. It's baffling why they're so bad at this.
This team, in a word, is PATHETIC. We are now 6 and 5 with loses to the Cowboys, Niners and Eagles next making us 6 and 8 with 3 games left . Best case is 9 and 8 if we win the last 3 remaining games, which is optimistic . The look of bewilderment on Pete's face after the game says it all. We are doing less with more.
Geno and Waldron have to go. The play calling is disjointed and Geno's slow eyes misses open recievers. The half time adjustments are non existent. Too many 3 and outs leave an improving D worn out Fortuntetly most of the pieces for a SB run are in place. A good, young QB and a innovative OC is all that's needed.
It took PC this long to figure out those things? He should borrow Geno's apt self-description as a "thumb guy" and not make veiled references to anyone else. Behind the scenes he should be lowering some boom (oh OK, "telling the truth") on several underperformers under his command.
The OL ain't great and to my eyes that's a bad problem. Losing Lucas thus far should not have been the reason; plenty of better OLs have had their share of key injuries. Haven't Brown, Lewis, Haynes and Cross been pretty healthy, and Jason Peters playing OK?
A thought. With the exception of Geno, Tyler, DK, and Dissley, the offense is pretty young. There is no strong, proven veteran leadership. Especially on the line. Tyler and DK are out on the ends, Dissley is quiet, and Geno... I think he's got his hands full just dealing with his own issues. Ken said it well last week: they've got a playbook but not an offense.
People want Pete to retire to a position as coach emeritus, but I think that's pretty much what he is now. He delegates real authority to his OC's and to John Schneider. He doesn't call the plays like many coaches. He signs off on the plans and all, but he doesn't impose his plan unless their plans fail.
What you describe is the beginning of the end for Waldron, I believe. High time, I guess.
Interesting comments from Pete. From those, I’d say he’s losing patience with Waldron and maybe Geno (& whoever is QB coach?). It’s unlike him to say negative stuff like that about anything. Maybe, hopefully, he’ll finally do something about the rot that seems to have set in.
Bobo's circus catch for the TD is still "the best", just sayin'.
And remembering Geno "not seeing" a wide open JSN for a likely TD in one of the early season games sticks out. For whatever reason, Geno has been forcing the ball to DK and it ain't working. I can't believe Waldron has directed him to do that.
Not that anybody on this thread really cares, but the Apple Cup is tied at the third quarter, 12 minute mark and the WSU Cougars clearly won "The most important 8 minutes in football." Lets see how it ends.
Very last second FG gives the UW a three point win. So, OK, now it's only a 56% chance of winning.
All I know is the offense looks horrible. Shane better get it together or he’ll be gone before Geno. It seems 11 and 12 man formations are a strength. You can get creative from any formation in football is my belief. They might as well run the the Wishbone. Geez this season is so frustrating! May the 12s be with you! 🏈🏈Go Seahawks🏈🏈
Funny that you mentioned the wishbone. When K9 and Charbs were both healthy I thought I’d like to see some wing T formations. Multiple fakes with either RB, the QB or a receiver running the ball. I think Shanahan has the 49s run a couple of plays that are similar to wing T and every time I see one it gashes the defense it’s run against. One of them looks like a sweep, but the receiver cuts inside, similar to Bobo’s rushing TD (which I he improvised).
Offensive TD to FGM ratio of Seahawks and division leaders:
Seahawks: 19/25
—————————
Miami: 39/9
Baltimore: 34/19
Jacksonville: 22/20
Kansas City: 23/19
Philadelphia: 30/18
Detroit: 35/13
New Orleans: 20/19
San Francisco: 37/17
——————————
Other (teams with a better record than Seattle)
Cleveland: 19/26
Houston: 24/18
Pittsburgh: 14/22
Dallas: 33/22
——————————
Other (teams with the same record as Seattle)
Buffalo: 34/16
Minnesota: 27/17
We’re making this too hard. The Seahawks’ key skill position players (at least 300 snaps) are below. Rank order them in ability:
Zach Charbonnet
Noah Fant
Tyler Lockett
DK Metcalf
Colby Parkinson
Geno Smith
Jaxon Smith-Njigba
Kenneth Walker III
I feel like classifying the offense as "one of the league's worst" is just flat-out wrong. I think as a fanbase we've been bracing ourselves for the wheels to come off so much, and have been exposed to such a high level of doomcasting and naysaying, that we've let all that negativity cloud our judgement. Most importantly, because the offense is DISAPPOINTING, we've conflated that with it being terrible. That simply ignores what's going on in the rest of the league.
In order to be "one of the worst" offenses in the NFL, we would have to be a bottom-5 offense. Just of the top of my head, I would say that the following squads are notably worse: both NY teams, LV, CAR, ATL, NE, TEN, PIT, WAS. By PPG, the Hawks currently rank 19th. That isn't "one of the worst", its MID. Its disappointing. It's underperforming, it's in desperate need of improvement, it's frustrating. I'm not saying the team shouldn't be criticised, I'm not saying we don't have the right to be frustrated, but let's stay accurate.
Agree. It’s the performance relative to the division leaders and other potential playoff teams and to expectations that is disappointing.
In the NFL, there are quarterbacks that elevate the whole team. Pete Carol Seems to feel that’s the team should be out there doing their best to help Geno Smith. I see nothing but constant finger-pointing until the quarterback situation is straightened out.
Saw Colby open over the middle again last night but clearly not part of the play. Geno could have got rid of the ball quickly on that play and didn’t. Against a defense like that, we need TEs with quick over the middle plays. I liked another question last night, “what’s the offensive identity”. We don’t have one. I counter anyone who says PC is a running coach. We’re not and really never have been. Bummed
Hoping this is the first step in the "head's are gonna roll" process
I agree, it’s time to take the training wheels off. I would rather go down swinging, with the risk it fails spectacularly, vs. being conservative. It’s time to push our chips in and see what we have.
The stats shared on Metcalf are notable and he has not established himself as the guy you go to in the clutch (it’s still Lockett) but JSN seems like he is “that guy”.
I’d rather us go for broke to figure out which players we can continue building around.
Yeah, I agree its weird the TEs are so under-utilized, that's been going on way too long. But this offense has much bigger problems than specific routes run and who is getting targets, especially a rookie WR. I know you chose to isolate this comment and expound on it but if this was Pete's biggest criticism for the offense, the next few weeks will be really ugly.
After halftime, we came out and threw slants and crossing routes that marched us right down the field, then not again. Each time I saw an endzone view of our offense, there were no combo route concepts being run, just a few stand-alone routes to the edges. I think that calling more slanting, slashing, and crossing routes, coupled with RB chip and releases probably would make a difference
Every time we've done those things, we've moved the ball much easier.
If nothing else, it's about time Pete told the public that he is demanding the team to try something else, cause we see 90% the same stuff every week with a few wrinkles thrown in to make our offense look like they're trying something bew when they aren't.
I'm not sure it's Waldron avoiding the middle of the field but maybe a mandate from Pete. He's so incredibly risk-adverse, those middle of the field throws are more easily intercepted, and Geno has been less accurate for a while now. FG has done some commentary on Waldron's tendencies and weak playcalling, I think there's a sound argument he is coming up short as an OC, but it's near impossible to know how much is Waldron vs how much is Pete. But certain attributes seem consistent over three OCs and two starting QBs, which implies the one constant (Pete) may be part of the issue.
Fair point. I would say that Geno's outside throws have been pretty risky on their own, too. Someone else commented that Pete is always preaching running game, defense, and explosive plays, but we haven't see the running plays called this year, and I totally agree with that. Maybe we are seeing Pete publicly pressuring Shane and privately demanding he change stuff up. Maybe laying some ground work with the 12s to prepare for a Geno benching and a play calling change or a full-on OC change? I don't think it's Pete's M.O., but I can hope.
Any throw from Geno is risky.
😄
Waldron has been calling pass vs run 2:1 for a weeks and weeks now. The run game has become less effective with OL issues and now Walker's injury, but he was calling a ton more passes long before the run game regressed. I think they are calling shot plays though, Geno holding onto the damn ball waiting for routes to develop has been a thing.
I can't recall Pete ever firing a coordinator in-season, Geno being benched has a higher probability but it won't matter. An offense this dysfunctional won't be fixed by inserting Lock at this point. These issues should have been diagnosed and addressed a month ago. It's baffling why they're so bad at this.
*something NEW
At this point, trading Metcalf for a high draft pick wouldn't bother me at all.
This team, in a word, is PATHETIC. We are now 6 and 5 with loses to the Cowboys, Niners and Eagles next making us 6 and 8 with 3 games left . Best case is 9 and 8 if we win the last 3 remaining games, which is optimistic . The look of bewilderment on Pete's face after the game says it all. We are doing less with more.
Geno and Waldron have to go. The play calling is disjointed and Geno's slow eyes misses open recievers. The half time adjustments are non existent. Too many 3 and outs leave an improving D worn out Fortuntetly most of the pieces for a SB run are in place. A good, young QB and a innovative OC is all that's needed.
It took PC this long to figure out those things? He should borrow Geno's apt self-description as a "thumb guy" and not make veiled references to anyone else. Behind the scenes he should be lowering some boom (oh OK, "telling the truth") on several underperformers under his command.
The OL ain't great and to my eyes that's a bad problem. Losing Lucas thus far should not have been the reason; plenty of better OLs have had their share of key injuries. Haven't Brown, Lewis, Haynes and Cross been pretty healthy, and Jason Peters playing OK?
A thought. With the exception of Geno, Tyler, DK, and Dissley, the offense is pretty young. There is no strong, proven veteran leadership. Especially on the line. Tyler and DK are out on the ends, Dissley is quiet, and Geno... I think he's got his hands full just dealing with his own issues. Ken said it well last week: they've got a playbook but not an offense.
People want Pete to retire to a position as coach emeritus, but I think that's pretty much what he is now. He delegates real authority to his OC's and to John Schneider. He doesn't call the plays like many coaches. He signs off on the plans and all, but he doesn't impose his plan unless their plans fail.
What you describe is the beginning of the end for Waldron, I believe. High time, I guess.
My take is the opposite—that the coordinators are assistants with limited authority.
Interesting comments from Pete. From those, I’d say he’s losing patience with Waldron and maybe Geno (& whoever is QB coach?). It’s unlike him to say negative stuff like that about anything. Maybe, hopefully, he’ll finally do something about the rot that seems to have set in.
Bobo's circus catch for the TD is still "the best", just sayin'.
And remembering Geno "not seeing" a wide open JSN for a likely TD in one of the early season games sticks out. For whatever reason, Geno has been forcing the ball to DK and it ain't working. I can't believe Waldron has directed him to do that.