It’s good times when you have a winner/or a very good team to cheer for City Seahawks, Rams, the top echelon teams always in contention, always fighting for the top spot
How many times have we seen players that just can’t make it with these organizations get traded and suddenly they’re playing quite well. They’re starting they’re playing up to their ability again. It’s not the players well sometimes it is but a lot of the times it’s just the organization.
There are some organizations that just can’t get out of their own way. Think of the bottom
Feeders, year after year, number one draft picks or close to it. It doesn’t much matter they are what they are. I MHO it stems from the top ownership management you see in business all the time some companies thrive, and others fall apart that’s the only way that I can understand it for myself. The good teams may have setbacks as they all do but they always recover and they’re always in contention. Sad really, I feel sorry for the fans but such his life
I appreciate all the encouraging comments: I did read the article and understand the throughline. I understand grievances. I am a big NFL fan, wish that every team was supported by a good organization, no one’s QB got injured, and every game was competitive. I love where our team is headed, and hope the struggling franchises find their mojo. It makes the short weeks of the season that much more enjoyable.
I mean, for me the article was intended as a reminder of how lucky we are to root for a franchise that has been consistently competitive, interesting, and fun to watch since Paul Allen bought the team, as well as how rare that is to find. I also find it unfortunate that franchises like the Browns, Raiders, Cardinals (and so on) are so frequently toiling in absurdly bad decisions and situations because it's no fun to watch even from an outsiders position. I hate it for kickers when they miss kicks. I'm sorry for coaches who are fired too prematurely. I root for players to succeed. And I have nothing against Geno Smith, which is totally separate of merely sharing things he actually said about Seattle and the Seahawks and his accountability in the relationship falling apart.
Unfortunately a world with only good franchises does not exist, so as long as that's true I'm glad the Seahawks are one of the best ones.
Wonder what would have happened if KK and Benton came over instead of Grubb and Huff? Geno in this offense with DK and JSN and a FB could have been cool...Geno was never my favorite but some of that was his leadership and body language...But he was fairly smart and could generally get the job done. I still think coaches made a huge difference and maybe signals PC is on fairwell tour.
Move from one of the best ownership situations in the game to one of the worst and see what you get. I don’t think that Geno was as good in Seattle as his defenders say and I doubt that he is as bad in Oakland as the detractors who want him benched claim. He’s in an awful situation that would challenge Peyton Manning.
On another subject, Matt Hasselbeck’s appearance on the latest Hawkblogger is well worth a listen. While most of the focus is on the INTs, he had an interesting aside on the 1yd TD pass to Davante Adams. According to MH, MM made a terrific defensive call that didn’t work out because Uchenna Nwosu was out of position. I looked at the All-22 and came away thinking that Matt H had a point.
Those Davante plays this year are unstoppable and it's usually Stafford trying over and over again that leads to so many touchdowns. Not always gonna work on the first attempt, but he won't stop going back to Davante and eventually you can't stop it that many times in a row.
Best wishes to Pete and Geno. I wish no ill tidings on either of them, and wish they were having better luck than they are. Keep the happy memories, and flush the rest. I want to focus on what's here now, which is plenty good, and feel blessed for it. I certainly don't feel any compulsion to defend the Seahawks for the moves they made. They worked out for us. I don't see anyone doing anything but praising JS for his offseason.......well, at least now. There was plenty to defend in April, but we're in November now, so.....
The Seahawks were never a bad team 2022-2024, although they were never a great team either. The structure in place, maybe largely held together by JS, could be the missing piece in LV.
Pete lost his way in the last 5 years or so here. Rule #1 stuff mostly. And, he seems to be repeating those same errors in Vegas. That said, I’ll be eternally grateful for 2012-2014, minus the SB pick in the end zone. The Seahawks are good right now because of good drafting and good coaching. Pete wasn’t going to get us back there, but his legacy deserves acknowledgment, and gratitude.
I don’t disagree with your conclusions…..we’re better off now than we would be had we not made the necessary changes. But I take no pleasure in pointing out that the Raiders are struggling with Pete and Geno. They’ve struggled with numerous coaches and QB’s. Sometimes it’s the philosophy, sometimes it’s the tactics.
To me, Geno did well when a play went to schedule, and he did great when he got flushed, went on instinct, and had a receiver who excelled on scramble drills (Tyler). He didn’t do as well when he had to think on his feet.
I think we saw sour Geno because he went from working with comfortable leadership to a rookie HC, OC, and offensive staff. JS was the one constant, and he didn’t make up for the lack of support. We can look at the Seahawks as a solid organization, but I strongly doubt that was Geno’s personal experience in 2024.
Looking back, it was right for MM to change QBs. It’s easier to build a new relationship than to repair a damaged one.
Just my opinion, I think JS and Jody Allen/ownership wanted to get rid of Geno before they wanted to get rid of Pete. Pete didn't go for it, so they went in reverse order. It was just hard to part with Geno in 2024 with his contract and no big trade offers. It worked out perfect that Sam became a free agent and KK became a free agent when they did.
While you might very well be right, I worry about any analysis or speculation based on who to dump. The bigger question and challenge is about who to get. If true, who was John hoping to get at the time?
When they did trade Geno, they had a clear intention to get Sam.
When they let Pete go, I also think that Ben Johnson was the target, expecting that a DC would be relatively easy to find. Playoffs pushed the timeline, MM was next on the list, and Grub was a last minute gamble.
Woolen was recently on the dump list, but thankfully he’s still here. We’ve needed the depth, and he’s stepped up. It’s fine for people to dislike Riq and Bradford. That’s the easy part. Naming the better available player is an order of magnitude more difficult.
I wasn't quite thinking of it as "hey we need to get someone" in 2024 so much as a conversation where Pete had to be convinced that the team should be looking for a Geno replacement and Pete was like "You're not football people so you don't get it" which he publicly stated was the reason he was fired. That they weren't football people so they didn't get it. And that's fine, Pete is a Hall of Famer, he has his right to an opinion.
So it's like well, we have to go our separate ways then Pete because we want to find a new quarterback. When that happened, I think it's logical that John started laying the groundwork to part with Geno in 2025. This could be why Geno stated publicly that he felt like the Seahawks didn't want him anymore after Pete was fired.
On the other side of the coin, Pete goes out and gets Geno Smith (or convinces the Raiders to get Geno) thereby sort of solidifying my theory that JS didn't want Geno (it was always said that he wanted Lock to be the guy in 2022) and Pete did.
"To me, Geno did well when a play went to schedule, and he did great when he got flushed, went on instinct, and had a receiver who excelled on scramble drills (Tyler). He didn’t do as well when he had to think on his feet."
This sounds like a statement we could copy and paste to the SD era so far.
Agreed on the second paragraph!
Plan A, from what they've said, was always to get Geno back (and DK). But I do agree with your observation that maybe a clean start was best.
That is also no knock to JS. Having a good plan A, plan B (which we executed), and other contingency plans is part of a strong leadership. So I give JS props for the offseason even if it didn't go to plan A.
I got caught up watching the wild abandon Wilson brought to the Game. Even an old coach like Pete gave up and rode the wave. 'Just Do It' as Nike said. My guess is I missed the excitement. Recall early Geno scrambling up the middle for a crucial first down and tossing it to a TE up the middle for the winning score? I WANTED that Geno. Those lightning bolt plays and the electric shock they delivered. As with Wilson, I think Milroe is Schneider's kinda guy. His Pick in that Draft. I draw huge comfort knowing The Kid is there, waiting... Another guy who has disappeared from scrutiny.
Still a mystery to why they ran him out. I think Coaches don't want a repeat of Wilson's wild abandon and wanted to see what the Kid did under pressure. Defaulting to athletic scrambling could be a big No-No? We've seen him very able in this regard and it is certainly something Sam doesn't have. He'll be a distinctly different QB, which I like. My bet is a ton of study has gone into how Mahomes was brought along as a Rookie under Smith(?). I wonder of our QB Coach has any linkage to those KC days. Might we expect to see Lock go elsewhere next year?
Geno looks bad because he is a career long back up that looked good because the Hawks made him look much better than he actually is! Now, with a bad Raiders team, Geno is the real Geno. He has what scouts call slow eyes. He doesn't process information fast enough to be an effective NFL starter as evidenced by his 7
Red Zone picks that cost us the play offs last year. His 60 million contract is a sick joke. JSN trading him to Pete and signing Sam Darnold , who is 8 years younger and 30 million cheaper, was pure genius!
As I watched Dallas doing a sack-a-thon on Geno I came to the conclusion that there is probably not an O-line in the NFL that could protect him because he almost always holds the ball to long. Speaking of slow eyes, he had one play where No-E was wide open down the right sideline signalling for the ball but Geno took the sack instead.
That gap between what we thought Geno was and how solid he played for the first 10-ish games of 2022 was so vast that I think a lot of people overcompensated how good he is. I think of a guy like Nick Foles, who accomplished a lot in his career despite basically being a career backup and there's nothing wrong with that if fans have reasonable expectations.
SSJ and Crew never levelled unwarranted criticism at Smith. Not any that I saw, and I came here during the Russ ouster. Loaded with talent, we needed a Leader, which the Team never got. As Fans, we tried to be supportive without being stupid. I know I had to subdue my passions multiple times. I see the Team today as a creation by John Schneider and Jody Allen. I do believe they agreed with SSJ in replacing Pete with the Lion's Ben Johnson, making MM our alternate choice. It left us without a clear way forward on an already sad offense. Going 10-7 is a measure for how talented our players are. Given time for a proper search brought us Klint. And how much clarity did it take for MM and JS to bring in assistant HC Leslie Frazier? That he has stayed invisible says much on many levels. Where's he been? What does he do? Dunno. Obviously, it works.
I love people like Leslie Frazier who do their work with nobody looking. But I think he's invaluable to the coaching staff and the players. An 'Old Head' who has seen it all. A guy with perspective. A guy who will tell truths, but in a way that leads forward, not backwards.
Les would have been one of those guys whose opinion of Geno would have mattered. Is he checked in, or checked out? Is he making those around him better? When he struggles, does he struggle in the right way, and adjust the right way? Where does his emotional energy go?
Love Leslie Frazier. Total class act. I expect he's enjoying the anonymity.
Much appreciate it. Criticizing players on a team is not easy to do without being accused of "pure hate-erade" but in the age of social media and witnessing so many writers/bloggers fantasize of being friends with these guys or getting access to the team if they're "nice", it's something I think is needed. And there were plenty of times I wrote "damn good game Geno". It's always meant to be the most fair judgment of a player as I can give and I share the information I gather and let everybody make their own conclusions.
I think Leslie Frazier's primary role is to help MM connect with his players. I'm certain he actually does a fair amount of coaching too (MM has commented on the Leslie Frazier DB school), but I sense he's more naturally charismatic than MM and helps with the player-coach communication dynamics. For all his strengths, I imagine MM struggling with meeting a bunch of 20-something-year-old hot shots on an emotional level. Good on him for knowing and addressing his own deficiencies as a first-time head coach.
For Les to see the guys feel they have connected up the chain is hugely important. I've noticed JS circulates the locker room post-game, reading the room, talking Easy Talk. My bet is Jody works the Stands taking the pulse, seeing what can't be seen by hired personnel. Most don't know her on sight and she'd know it when it happens. Top-to-bottom; left-to-right. Everybody is tasked. These folks are on The Mission that Life has dealt them. This is the Hand they hold. Coming to SSJ shows me we all share in this, understand and support it. Perty cool. Unique perspectives. A huge Community of Neighbors practising Wisdom as best they can muster. Taking inspiration to the Job on Monday, spreading the wealth. Getting those Moments with the grandkids... Old Friends. HooRah.
In one of his recent interviews MM mentioned he is constantly speaking with Frazier and KK on situations especially going for it on 4th down, throughout the game.
Geno Smith took an amazing amount of blame throughout his Seahawks tenure.
Now when I read and listen to Seahawks world? What a difference. I think people realized how much of a bummer it was to constantly crush the QB.
Sam Darnold played far worse than any game Geno played in Seattle. Sam Darnold has a top defense in the league. He has a professional play caller and a good line. The run game is 100x better than last year.
But Sam Darnold recieves barely any criticism. And certainly nothing close to vehemently degrading comments.
Mike Mac talked about connecting with his players better. In my opinion, because of Geno Mike Mac has came out strongly from day 1 on SD. He has not let any hint of smoke rise, unlike last year.
After Mike Mac was hired, Geno Smith asked John Schneider if he would be a part of the future, he didn't give Geno an answer that was adequate to him. That is what prompted the "Last Dance". What has happened since SD has got here? JS has been incredibly supportive and showing a vision forward. I think JS has grown from the Geno experience.
It seems to me that the entire fan base, head coach, and the GM have progressed since the Dark Knight's three years in Seattle.
Geno Smith's worst decision was not responding to the Seahawks contract offer this offseason. But, that was his call and as much as I would love to see what he can do in this offense, I am also happy to see Sam Darnold progress in this city and offense after he was unfairly criticized throughout his career and last year in Minny, in my opinion.
I thank Geno for leading the Seahawks teams to winning records through years that are typically awful for NFL teams. The Seahawks have completely rebuilt the roster and Geno helped a winning culture through two head coaches, two offensive coordinators (that led to a third), and many important rookies. Those players and coaches are now coming together. And the Dark Knight that took the heat, is now onto other things.
I wish him only the best. But I also am rooting full throat for SD. No rearview mirror only potential good times ahead.
One other item. After the game Sam said the loss was on him. His teammates and coaches came to his defense. Did Geno ever take the blame for a loss and I can't imagine his teammates and coaches coming to his defense. He just was not part of that culture.
Yes Geno took the blame. In fact, Geno took the blame after every loss. And after every win he deflected the praise and said it’s time to get back to work.
I could say a lot about this but somebody would run it through AI so let me say a few things.
Geno is playing in the NFL, Not For Long. I think that applies to him everywhere he has been , and guess what is going to probably happen in LV. I don't think he is a terrible QB but for whatever reason he has not been able to put down roots anywhere. Maybe ask the AI what has happened.
My other point. Geno was also a victim of the three strikes rule. They gave him three years to get it done and he didn't. Maybe if he had a different or better OC things would have been different. I'm ok blaming Waldron and Grubb, especially Grubb. And Waldron wasn't that great either, how did he even get the job? Maybe they should have kept Shotty, Jerry likes him. If you know how much roster churn there was when Pete came, what happened to Geno should have been no big surprise.
Better cut it off, probably bumping against the AI limit.
FYI I asked AI to condense this into one sentence: "Geno Smith was the "Dark Knight" who absorbed relentless blame and heat during Seattle's turbulent rebuild, stabilizing the team with winning seasons through chaos, and in his absence the fans, coach, and GM have all grown to appreciate him while now fully embracing Sam Darnold as the new hope."
I can call Geno "The Mac Symbol" because I can guarantee you're return to the comments section whenever I drop his name.
Well said! I honestly think that Kubiak vs. Grubb is the more significant difference to our offensive success than Sam vs. Geno. There's no way to ever know, but that's my gut feeling.
I completely agree and it's not even an argument in my mind.
Now that I am watching Kubiak's offense every week, I don't think there is a bigger competitive advantage in the NFL right now than having an under center run based offense. You see it with Detroit; you see it with the Colts. The shotgun-based pass heavy offenses are hard to watch unless you have a truly elite QB and even Mahomes is struggling.
I think people think about a OC in terms of when to call a certain pass play. Chip Kelly and Ryan Grubb were always doomed to fail because they are not built correctly. Kubiak is built off a solid foundation. This is what Mike Mac was referring to in the offseason because Mike Mac knows defense and knows what offenses he doesn't want to see.
Additionally. whether SD is or isn't better than Geno was never really the question in my mind. The question was, can moving to Sam Darnold keep the QB position competent? Because we are getting younger and cheaper at the position. So, if SD is as good as Geno or at least not a disaster, then that's probably a decent move for the Seahawks. But we saw the risk last week, as Sam's bad games are really bad (but he can improve).
But like you said, there is no way of knowing who would've been better this year for the Hawks. It's funny reading declarative statements in the media like Matt Calkins at the Seattle Times.
"Through 10 games, Darnold has soared above expectations and has proved to be a clear upgrade over his predecessor, Geno Smith" Calkins
No Matt, haha, there has not been anything "clear" about the move.
The offense around the QB this year doesn't even resemble the offense last year.
I have to admit, I was hoping the Seahawks would extend Geno before free agency. I thought he wanted to roll it again with the Hawks and without Grubb. I didn’t realize he’d been in constant comms with PC all last year. I think the reason he never countered the Seahawks offer was he had an inkling PC was going to make a play for him with the Raiders. Maybe he knew Tom Brady would be fine with that, and hence, so would the ownership. Funny how both Russ and Geno thought the grass was greener elsewhere. I hope Darnold thinks twice about grabbing a few more dollars elsewhere when it’s his turn to think about an extension.
I am in 100% agreement on JS and the current Seahawks ownership. Even when they do the opposite of what I want like letting go of Geno, I immediately pivot and get behind the team’s decision. Who am I to think I know better. Once I saw that Darnold spent the entire 2023 season with KK in SFO, I pivoted with a giant step and drew the conclusion that KK felt Darnold was a better fit for the system he wanted to install than Geno was.
regarding moving on from DK, I wonder if any of the Steelers fans are pining the loss of Pickens. To me, he’s better at contested catches, has better hands and runs better routes. He’s also seemed to have matured and has settled down a little from a character standpoint. I like his upside vs DK.
To go from Pickens to DK is quite the loss, for a number of reasons, and I don't even know how long Pickens can keep this up. But right now he's young and for the time being was cheap through 2025.
I can’t figure out why the Steelers got rid of Pickens. He is still on his rookie contract, I believe. Was his character that big of a problem? I don’t hear much complaints about his character from the Cowboys. Were the Steelers worried about DK’s ego or complaints about targets? If I were a Steelers fan, I’d be unhappy about losing out on him this season.
It seemed like Pickens was consistently in the doghouse for one reason or another. Tomlin had made comments, in a professional way, insulating Pickens needed to mature.
I couldn't figure out why the Steelers would pivot to DK who exhibited similar unsavory on field behavior in Seattle.
Indeed, not to mention Pickens is younger, far cheaper, and most likely a better receiver. We saved a 5 year $150 million dollar salary and got Emmanwori! Win for Dallas, win for Seattle
But I don’t imagine it will be as much as $150 million. People are so enamored with DK’s physique and athleticism. They still think he’s the next Megatron. That’s a pipe dream. I think his best is behind him. No one is going to want that contract. He’s stuck in Pittsburgh
His arm strength is still great. He can throw it far, he just prefers the quick game to avoid the pressure. Rodgers is likely a one and done in Pittsburgh, I would have prioritized a young talented receiver. That’s why I wondered if it was DK who didn’t want Pickens taking targets from him and was pushing to get rid of him out of concern for his stats. DK was probably right about this. If Pickens was still an option for Rodgers, DK would probably be having and even less productive year.
The funny thing is that Jerry just traded Micah because he hated his attitude. So he gets Pickens, who has a similar reputation, and I would assume he's going to extend him after the season.
Pickens has 900 yards this season! Geez! I guess I now know what Steelers fans think about trading Pickens for DK. I was basing it based on the Monday night game I watched.
I need to look up Pickens actual stats. I’m basing my decision from what I’ve seen of his play this year and past years, and from reports about his attitude. I would bet his stats are at least comparable to DK this year. And my gut tells me there haven’t been many issues with his attitude. Although I base that only on my impressions from what I’ve read, which is not a comprehensive sample when it comes to the Cowboys. If Rodgers ever writes a book about his career, it’d be interesting to trash the chapter about his Steelers season.
I would also add that I think Geno was dismayed with the Hawks. He wanted to be a part of the journey but the conversation prior to the 2024 season did not make him feel a part of the Mike Mac mission.
I also agree with the second paragraph. I would've knocked on Geno's door and said what it going on and what would it take to be here? JS did not. He stood his ground and I respect him for that. Once the pivot was made I thought SD was the right guy for the job (had Daniel Jones at 2). Good nugget on KK and Darnold in SFO. didn't know that.
It’s good times when you have a winner/or a very good team to cheer for City Seahawks, Rams, the top echelon teams always in contention, always fighting for the top spot
How many times have we seen players that just can’t make it with these organizations get traded and suddenly they’re playing quite well. They’re starting they’re playing up to their ability again. It’s not the players well sometimes it is but a lot of the times it’s just the organization.
There are some organizations that just can’t get out of their own way. Think of the bottom
Feeders, year after year, number one draft picks or close to it. It doesn’t much matter they are what they are. I MHO it stems from the top ownership management you see in business all the time some companies thrive, and others fall apart that’s the only way that I can understand it for myself. The good teams may have setbacks as they all do but they always recover and they’re always in contention. Sad really, I feel sorry for the fans but such his life
972010
Geno? Oh yeah, that QB we had before Sam and after Jim.
I appreciate all the encouraging comments: I did read the article and understand the throughline. I understand grievances. I am a big NFL fan, wish that every team was supported by a good organization, no one’s QB got injured, and every game was competitive. I love where our team is headed, and hope the struggling franchises find their mojo. It makes the short weeks of the season that much more enjoyable.
I mean, for me the article was intended as a reminder of how lucky we are to root for a franchise that has been consistently competitive, interesting, and fun to watch since Paul Allen bought the team, as well as how rare that is to find. I also find it unfortunate that franchises like the Browns, Raiders, Cardinals (and so on) are so frequently toiling in absurdly bad decisions and situations because it's no fun to watch even from an outsiders position. I hate it for kickers when they miss kicks. I'm sorry for coaches who are fired too prematurely. I root for players to succeed. And I have nothing against Geno Smith, which is totally separate of merely sharing things he actually said about Seattle and the Seahawks and his accountability in the relationship falling apart.
Unfortunately a world with only good franchises does not exist, so as long as that's true I'm glad the Seahawks are one of the best ones.
Wonder what would have happened if KK and Benton came over instead of Grubb and Huff? Geno in this offense with DK and JSN and a FB could have been cool...Geno was never my favorite but some of that was his leadership and body language...But he was fairly smart and could generally get the job done. I still think coaches made a huge difference and maybe signals PC is on fairwell tour.
Rather have Darnold/JSN/Emmanwori than Geno/DK/JSN. Essentially got rid of those contracts and got Emmanwori with the added picks I believe.
Move from one of the best ownership situations in the game to one of the worst and see what you get. I don’t think that Geno was as good in Seattle as his defenders say and I doubt that he is as bad in Oakland as the detractors who want him benched claim. He’s in an awful situation that would challenge Peyton Manning.
On another subject, Matt Hasselbeck’s appearance on the latest Hawkblogger is well worth a listen. While most of the focus is on the INTs, he had an interesting aside on the 1yd TD pass to Davante Adams. According to MH, MM made a terrific defensive call that didn’t work out because Uchenna Nwosu was out of position. I looked at the All-22 and came away thinking that Matt H had a point.
Those Davante plays this year are unstoppable and it's usually Stafford trying over and over again that leads to so many touchdowns. Not always gonna work on the first attempt, but he won't stop going back to Davante and eventually you can't stop it that many times in a row.
He’s going to get through sooner or later.
Best wishes to Pete and Geno. I wish no ill tidings on either of them, and wish they were having better luck than they are. Keep the happy memories, and flush the rest. I want to focus on what's here now, which is plenty good, and feel blessed for it. I certainly don't feel any compulsion to defend the Seahawks for the moves they made. They worked out for us. I don't see anyone doing anything but praising JS for his offseason.......well, at least now. There was plenty to defend in April, but we're in November now, so.....
Luv ya Pete!
The Seahawks were never a bad team 2022-2024, although they were never a great team either. The structure in place, maybe largely held together by JS, could be the missing piece in LV.
Pete lost his way in the last 5 years or so here. Rule #1 stuff mostly. And, he seems to be repeating those same errors in Vegas. That said, I’ll be eternally grateful for 2012-2014, minus the SB pick in the end zone. The Seahawks are good right now because of good drafting and good coaching. Pete wasn’t going to get us back there, but his legacy deserves acknowledgment, and gratitude.
I don’t disagree with your conclusions…..we’re better off now than we would be had we not made the necessary changes. But I take no pleasure in pointing out that the Raiders are struggling with Pete and Geno. They’ve struggled with numerous coaches and QB’s. Sometimes it’s the philosophy, sometimes it’s the tactics.
Sometimes it's the ownership.
Well said!
To me, Geno did well when a play went to schedule, and he did great when he got flushed, went on instinct, and had a receiver who excelled on scramble drills (Tyler). He didn’t do as well when he had to think on his feet.
I think we saw sour Geno because he went from working with comfortable leadership to a rookie HC, OC, and offensive staff. JS was the one constant, and he didn’t make up for the lack of support. We can look at the Seahawks as a solid organization, but I strongly doubt that was Geno’s personal experience in 2024.
Looking back, it was right for MM to change QBs. It’s easier to build a new relationship than to repair a damaged one.
When a QB asks to be traded, like Geno did, It's best to let him move on, in MHO.
Just my opinion, I think JS and Jody Allen/ownership wanted to get rid of Geno before they wanted to get rid of Pete. Pete didn't go for it, so they went in reverse order. It was just hard to part with Geno in 2024 with his contract and no big trade offers. It worked out perfect that Sam became a free agent and KK became a free agent when they did.
While you might very well be right, I worry about any analysis or speculation based on who to dump. The bigger question and challenge is about who to get. If true, who was John hoping to get at the time?
When they did trade Geno, they had a clear intention to get Sam.
When they let Pete go, I also think that Ben Johnson was the target, expecting that a DC would be relatively easy to find. Playoffs pushed the timeline, MM was next on the list, and Grub was a last minute gamble.
Woolen was recently on the dump list, but thankfully he’s still here. We’ve needed the depth, and he’s stepped up. It’s fine for people to dislike Riq and Bradford. That’s the easy part. Naming the better available player is an order of magnitude more difficult.
I wasn't quite thinking of it as "hey we need to get someone" in 2024 so much as a conversation where Pete had to be convinced that the team should be looking for a Geno replacement and Pete was like "You're not football people so you don't get it" which he publicly stated was the reason he was fired. That they weren't football people so they didn't get it. And that's fine, Pete is a Hall of Famer, he has his right to an opinion.
So it's like well, we have to go our separate ways then Pete because we want to find a new quarterback. When that happened, I think it's logical that John started laying the groundwork to part with Geno in 2025. This could be why Geno stated publicly that he felt like the Seahawks didn't want him anymore after Pete was fired.
On the other side of the coin, Pete goes out and gets Geno Smith (or convinces the Raiders to get Geno) thereby sort of solidifying my theory that JS didn't want Geno (it was always said that he wanted Lock to be the guy in 2022) and Pete did.
"To me, Geno did well when a play went to schedule, and he did great when he got flushed, went on instinct, and had a receiver who excelled on scramble drills (Tyler). He didn’t do as well when he had to think on his feet."
This sounds like a statement we could copy and paste to the SD era so far.
Agreed on the second paragraph!
Plan A, from what they've said, was always to get Geno back (and DK). But I do agree with your observation that maybe a clean start was best.
That is also no knock to JS. Having a good plan A, plan B (which we executed), and other contingency plans is part of a strong leadership. So I give JS props for the offseason even if it didn't go to plan A.
I got caught up watching the wild abandon Wilson brought to the Game. Even an old coach like Pete gave up and rode the wave. 'Just Do It' as Nike said. My guess is I missed the excitement. Recall early Geno scrambling up the middle for a crucial first down and tossing it to a TE up the middle for the winning score? I WANTED that Geno. Those lightning bolt plays and the electric shock they delivered. As with Wilson, I think Milroe is Schneider's kinda guy. His Pick in that Draft. I draw huge comfort knowing The Kid is there, waiting... Another guy who has disappeared from scrutiny.
Well, except that Milroe was active early, and it didn't work out very well.
Still a mystery to why they ran him out. I think Coaches don't want a repeat of Wilson's wild abandon and wanted to see what the Kid did under pressure. Defaulting to athletic scrambling could be a big No-No? We've seen him very able in this regard and it is certainly something Sam doesn't have. He'll be a distinctly different QB, which I like. My bet is a ton of study has gone into how Mahomes was brought along as a Rookie under Smith(?). I wonder of our QB Coach has any linkage to those KC days. Might we expect to see Lock go elsewhere next year?
Geno looks bad because he is a career long back up that looked good because the Hawks made him look much better than he actually is! Now, with a bad Raiders team, Geno is the real Geno. He has what scouts call slow eyes. He doesn't process information fast enough to be an effective NFL starter as evidenced by his 7
Red Zone picks that cost us the play offs last year. His 60 million contract is a sick joke. JSN trading him to Pete and signing Sam Darnold , who is 8 years younger and 30 million cheaper, was pure genius!
As I watched Dallas doing a sack-a-thon on Geno I came to the conclusion that there is probably not an O-line in the NFL that could protect him because he almost always holds the ball to long. Speaking of slow eyes, he had one play where No-E was wide open down the right sideline signalling for the ball but Geno took the sack instead.
That gap between what we thought Geno was and how solid he played for the first 10-ish games of 2022 was so vast that I think a lot of people overcompensated how good he is. I think of a guy like Nick Foles, who accomplished a lot in his career despite basically being a career backup and there's nothing wrong with that if fans have reasonable expectations.
SSJ and Crew never levelled unwarranted criticism at Smith. Not any that I saw, and I came here during the Russ ouster. Loaded with talent, we needed a Leader, which the Team never got. As Fans, we tried to be supportive without being stupid. I know I had to subdue my passions multiple times. I see the Team today as a creation by John Schneider and Jody Allen. I do believe they agreed with SSJ in replacing Pete with the Lion's Ben Johnson, making MM our alternate choice. It left us without a clear way forward on an already sad offense. Going 10-7 is a measure for how talented our players are. Given time for a proper search brought us Klint. And how much clarity did it take for MM and JS to bring in assistant HC Leslie Frazier? That he has stayed invisible says much on many levels. Where's he been? What does he do? Dunno. Obviously, it works.
I love people like Leslie Frazier who do their work with nobody looking. But I think he's invaluable to the coaching staff and the players. An 'Old Head' who has seen it all. A guy with perspective. A guy who will tell truths, but in a way that leads forward, not backwards.
Les would have been one of those guys whose opinion of Geno would have mattered. Is he checked in, or checked out? Is he making those around him better? When he struggles, does he struggle in the right way, and adjust the right way? Where does his emotional energy go?
Love Leslie Frazier. Total class act. I expect he's enjoying the anonymity.
Much appreciate it. Criticizing players on a team is not easy to do without being accused of "pure hate-erade" but in the age of social media and witnessing so many writers/bloggers fantasize of being friends with these guys or getting access to the team if they're "nice", it's something I think is needed. And there were plenty of times I wrote "damn good game Geno". It's always meant to be the most fair judgment of a player as I can give and I share the information I gather and let everybody make their own conclusions.
JJ: TY!
I think Leslie Frazier is much more valuable to the Seahawks than most people think, especially to the DB's. A great move on MM's part.
I think Leslie Frazier's primary role is to help MM connect with his players. I'm certain he actually does a fair amount of coaching too (MM has commented on the Leslie Frazier DB school), but I sense he's more naturally charismatic than MM and helps with the player-coach communication dynamics. For all his strengths, I imagine MM struggling with meeting a bunch of 20-something-year-old hot shots on an emotional level. Good on him for knowing and addressing his own deficiencies as a first-time head coach.
For Les to see the guys feel they have connected up the chain is hugely important. I've noticed JS circulates the locker room post-game, reading the room, talking Easy Talk. My bet is Jody works the Stands taking the pulse, seeing what can't be seen by hired personnel. Most don't know her on sight and she'd know it when it happens. Top-to-bottom; left-to-right. Everybody is tasked. These folks are on The Mission that Life has dealt them. This is the Hand they hold. Coming to SSJ shows me we all share in this, understand and support it. Perty cool. Unique perspectives. A huge Community of Neighbors practising Wisdom as best they can muster. Taking inspiration to the Job on Monday, spreading the wealth. Getting those Moments with the grandkids... Old Friends. HooRah.
In one of his recent interviews MM mentioned he is constantly speaking with Frazier and KK on situations especially going for it on 4th down, throughout the game.
Brennan Carroll was OC for UW and Jedd Fisch… That wagon is going places… Pete’s wagon is in TROUBLE
Geno Smith was "the Dark Knight" Seattle needed.
One of my favorites movies (and many people's) is the Dark Knight. The ending is Geno Smith
https://youtu.be/FpkZi262Wi4?si=g236EE9EgJxLMUfi
Geno Smith took an amazing amount of blame throughout his Seahawks tenure.
Now when I read and listen to Seahawks world? What a difference. I think people realized how much of a bummer it was to constantly crush the QB.
Sam Darnold played far worse than any game Geno played in Seattle. Sam Darnold has a top defense in the league. He has a professional play caller and a good line. The run game is 100x better than last year.
But Sam Darnold recieves barely any criticism. And certainly nothing close to vehemently degrading comments.
Mike Mac talked about connecting with his players better. In my opinion, because of Geno Mike Mac has came out strongly from day 1 on SD. He has not let any hint of smoke rise, unlike last year.
After Mike Mac was hired, Geno Smith asked John Schneider if he would be a part of the future, he didn't give Geno an answer that was adequate to him. That is what prompted the "Last Dance". What has happened since SD has got here? JS has been incredibly supportive and showing a vision forward. I think JS has grown from the Geno experience.
It seems to me that the entire fan base, head coach, and the GM have progressed since the Dark Knight's three years in Seattle.
Geno Smith's worst decision was not responding to the Seahawks contract offer this offseason. But, that was his call and as much as I would love to see what he can do in this offense, I am also happy to see Sam Darnold progress in this city and offense after he was unfairly criticized throughout his career and last year in Minny, in my opinion.
I thank Geno for leading the Seahawks teams to winning records through years that are typically awful for NFL teams. The Seahawks have completely rebuilt the roster and Geno helped a winning culture through two head coaches, two offensive coordinators (that led to a third), and many important rookies. Those players and coaches are now coming together. And the Dark Knight that took the heat, is now onto other things.
I wish him only the best. But I also am rooting full throat for SD. No rearview mirror only potential good times ahead.
Go Hawks
One other item. After the game Sam said the loss was on him. His teammates and coaches came to his defense. Did Geno ever take the blame for a loss and I can't imagine his teammates and coaches coming to his defense. He just was not part of that culture.
Here is Geno’s press conference last year after the Rams home loss.
Outside of one play or two plays, he played outstanding. But he took full blame and supported his teammates and the city
https://youtu.be/-b-D5zGAwv4?si=Nam6fC6e81CxUe6T
Not sure what else he’s supposed to do? 🤷
Also, when watching the post game interviews, Mike Mac about half ways through last season realized that people hated Geno.
So Mike Mac stepped up to the played and backed his QB. Basically from the rams game on.
All these videos are online. I can pull a bunch for you.
But Mike Mac thought the questioning of Geno was crazy. It just took him a little bit to figure out that people actually didn’t like him.
So this time he is backing Sam right from the start.
Looks to me like he learned which is great. A first time head coach is always going to have things he grows from
Yes Geno took the blame. In fact, Geno took the blame after every loss. And after every win he deflected the praise and said it’s time to get back to work.
I could say a lot about this but somebody would run it through AI so let me say a few things.
Geno is playing in the NFL, Not For Long. I think that applies to him everywhere he has been , and guess what is going to probably happen in LV. I don't think he is a terrible QB but for whatever reason he has not been able to put down roots anywhere. Maybe ask the AI what has happened.
My other point. Geno was also a victim of the three strikes rule. They gave him three years to get it done and he didn't. Maybe if he had a different or better OC things would have been different. I'm ok blaming Waldron and Grubb, especially Grubb. And Waldron wasn't that great either, how did he even get the job? Maybe they should have kept Shotty, Jerry likes him. If you know how much roster churn there was when Pete came, what happened to Geno should have been no big surprise.
Better cut it off, probably bumping against the AI limit.
Geno was plan A for the Seahawks, they offered him a contract that was probably similar to what they offered Sam Darnold.
This is just a fact, unless you believe that everyone in the organization is not telling the truth. He chose to turn it down.
So maybe the gave him 4 strikes?
If Pete doesn’t get hired. Geno is likely still here.
Is what it is.
FYI I asked AI to condense this into one sentence: "Geno Smith was the "Dark Knight" who absorbed relentless blame and heat during Seattle's turbulent rebuild, stabilizing the team with winning seasons through chaos, and in his absence the fans, coach, and GM have all grown to appreciate him while now fully embracing Sam Darnold as the new hope."
I can call Geno "The Mac Symbol" because I can guarantee you're return to the comments section whenever I drop his name.
I should just run my wildly long comments through AI!
Pretty good summation would change "appreciate him" to appreciate the QB
Well said! I honestly think that Kubiak vs. Grubb is the more significant difference to our offensive success than Sam vs. Geno. There's no way to ever know, but that's my gut feeling.
Thanks Grant!
I completely agree and it's not even an argument in my mind.
Now that I am watching Kubiak's offense every week, I don't think there is a bigger competitive advantage in the NFL right now than having an under center run based offense. You see it with Detroit; you see it with the Colts. The shotgun-based pass heavy offenses are hard to watch unless you have a truly elite QB and even Mahomes is struggling.
I think people think about a OC in terms of when to call a certain pass play. Chip Kelly and Ryan Grubb were always doomed to fail because they are not built correctly. Kubiak is built off a solid foundation. This is what Mike Mac was referring to in the offseason because Mike Mac knows defense and knows what offenses he doesn't want to see.
Additionally. whether SD is or isn't better than Geno was never really the question in my mind. The question was, can moving to Sam Darnold keep the QB position competent? Because we are getting younger and cheaper at the position. So, if SD is as good as Geno or at least not a disaster, then that's probably a decent move for the Seahawks. But we saw the risk last week, as Sam's bad games are really bad (but he can improve).
But like you said, there is no way of knowing who would've been better this year for the Hawks. It's funny reading declarative statements in the media like Matt Calkins at the Seattle Times.
"Through 10 games, Darnold has soared above expectations and has proved to be a clear upgrade over his predecessor, Geno Smith" Calkins
No Matt, haha, there has not been anything "clear" about the move.
The offense around the QB this year doesn't even resemble the offense last year.
Thanks for the comment Grant!
Geno could end up being part of Pete not getting fired once - BUT TWICE in the span of less than 2 years
Sad but true!
Not quite the same but it reminds me of Dennis Allen getting his second chance and allowing the Saints to sign Derek Carr.
Be careful whose wagon you hitch on to
That closing line is pure gold Kenneth!
I have to admit, I was hoping the Seahawks would extend Geno before free agency. I thought he wanted to roll it again with the Hawks and without Grubb. I didn’t realize he’d been in constant comms with PC all last year. I think the reason he never countered the Seahawks offer was he had an inkling PC was going to make a play for him with the Raiders. Maybe he knew Tom Brady would be fine with that, and hence, so would the ownership. Funny how both Russ and Geno thought the grass was greener elsewhere. I hope Darnold thinks twice about grabbing a few more dollars elsewhere when it’s his turn to think about an extension.
I am in 100% agreement on JS and the current Seahawks ownership. Even when they do the opposite of what I want like letting go of Geno, I immediately pivot and get behind the team’s decision. Who am I to think I know better. Once I saw that Darnold spent the entire 2023 season with KK in SFO, I pivoted with a giant step and drew the conclusion that KK felt Darnold was a better fit for the system he wanted to install than Geno was.
regarding moving on from DK, I wonder if any of the Steelers fans are pining the loss of Pickens. To me, he’s better at contested catches, has better hands and runs better routes. He’s also seemed to have matured and has settled down a little from a character standpoint. I like his upside vs DK.
To go from Pickens to DK is quite the loss, for a number of reasons, and I don't even know how long Pickens can keep this up. But right now he's young and for the time being was cheap through 2025.
I can’t figure out why the Steelers got rid of Pickens. He is still on his rookie contract, I believe. Was his character that big of a problem? I don’t hear much complaints about his character from the Cowboys. Were the Steelers worried about DK’s ego or complaints about targets? If I were a Steelers fan, I’d be unhappy about losing out on him this season.
It seemed like Pickens was consistently in the doghouse for one reason or another. Tomlin had made comments, in a professional way, insulating Pickens needed to mature.
I couldn't figure out why the Steelers would pivot to DK who exhibited similar unsavory on field behavior in Seattle.
Indeed, not to mention Pickens is younger, far cheaper, and most likely a better receiver. We saved a 5 year $150 million dollar salary and got Emmanwori! Win for Dallas, win for Seattle
And likely a win for Pickens too. Traded into a pass friendly offense with an owner who likes to hand out big contracts.
But I don’t imagine it will be as much as $150 million. People are so enamored with DK’s physique and athleticism. They still think he’s the next Megatron. That’s a pipe dream. I think his best is behind him. No one is going to want that contract. He’s stuck in Pittsburgh
Is it because Roger's can't throw the ball far enough to take advantage of Picken's skills? That's the only thing I can figure
His arm strength is still great. He can throw it far, he just prefers the quick game to avoid the pressure. Rodgers is likely a one and done in Pittsburgh, I would have prioritized a young talented receiver. That’s why I wondered if it was DK who didn’t want Pickens taking targets from him and was pushing to get rid of him out of concern for his stats. DK was probably right about this. If Pickens was still an option for Rodgers, DK would probably be having and even less productive year.
The funny thing is that Jerry just traded Micah because he hated his attitude. So he gets Pickens, who has a similar reputation, and I would assume he's going to extend him after the season.
Pickens has 900 yards this season! Geez! I guess I now know what Steelers fans think about trading Pickens for DK. I was basing it based on the Monday night game I watched.
I need to look up Pickens actual stats. I’m basing my decision from what I’ve seen of his play this year and past years, and from reports about his attitude. I would bet his stats are at least comparable to DK this year. And my gut tells me there haven’t been many issues with his attitude. Although I base that only on my impressions from what I’ve read, which is not a comprehensive sample when it comes to the Cowboys. If Rodgers ever writes a book about his career, it’d be interesting to trash the chapter about his Steelers season.
I agree with your first paragraph.
I would also add that I think Geno was dismayed with the Hawks. He wanted to be a part of the journey but the conversation prior to the 2024 season did not make him feel a part of the Mike Mac mission.
I also agree with the second paragraph. I would've knocked on Geno's door and said what it going on and what would it take to be here? JS did not. He stood his ground and I respect him for that. Once the pivot was made I thought SD was the right guy for the job (had Daniel Jones at 2). Good nugget on KK and Darnold in SFO. didn't know that.
Good comment Danno! As what seems to be always!