I’ve never been in a big hurry to move on from Myers, and after reading the article below I’m in even less of a hurry. His kickoffs have an EPA of 2.2 *per game.*
Disregard the previous post I was in the process of erasing it and it got posted
Rams won Seahawks lost IMHO because McVay was more aggressive. he gambled for touchdown., McDonald went for field goals. McVay almost lost the game for the very same reason when he went conservative at the very end
751672. I think the Seahawks have a pretty good chance of beating the Rams when they play the Rams at home.. The teams are closely matched at home-field advantage with teams this close will play a part. I would not put too much stock and some comments that I have read that the Seahawks will get an advantage from what they have learned from that game . The reason being that they are not taking into consideration, the fact that McVay has also learned what needs to be corrected. Everybody has a reason why the Seahawks lost. I might as well offer mine, the Seahawks lost, and the Rams almost lost for one reason.
McVay was more aggressive than. MAcdonald. Who is the coach of the Seahawks who is the coach of the Seahawks?
I had to stand back on this game and reflect on it, as well as seek others insight to have a grip of what I just saw on Sunday. The defense gave up a few big plays and then pretty much shut the door for mid 2nd quarter on. Devonte Adams did us some favors with two very uncharacteristic drops. That also might speak to Seattle's physical secondary in tight quarters. A little fear goes a long ways. While the defense adjusted it took the offense a long time to regroup. The turnovers stopped all momentum so they didn't get on track until late in the 2nd and fourth quarter. So how come. I heard Greg Olson point out the reason during the game, and I heard the same thing again this week on some other podcasts that covered the game. Most of the other defenses stacked the box against Seattle which gave more opportunity for big plays in the middle and downfield. The Rams were willing to let Seattle beat them in the short passing game using backs and TE's as well as the running game. They'll give up 5 or 7 yards not 20 plus. More plays, more chances for error. They weren't willing to concede the middle of the field 15 plus yards. They were less focused with outside perimeter throws downfield (WR at speed downfield) which were effective (JSN one handed), underthrown ball to Shaheed for a sure six and another JSN thrown on the right. When Seattle worked shorter quick routes in the shallow center they worked. Joe Klattt talked about Kubiak leaving less grey area in these types of games and more black and white play calling in situational football. Sam needs to not play "Hero Ball" and take the sure bet checks and run the ball in the light box. Barner's routes in tight coverage and Aroyo's is evident in the results. The old west coast back in the flat checks works in this type of defensive scheme. You might have a number of 3 yard no YAC, but that's a positive result against the Rams scheme. Sooner or later Seattle's backs will beat one on one after the catch and that throw is a safe throw.
Sam just needs to be more conservative against good defenses. He's only seen three this year in SF (with Bosa and Warner), Texas and the Rams. Pitt isn't at that level this year. Turnovers happened in all four of those games and we lost two. Credit Seattle defense and special teams in all the games.
I think Seattle can correct the mistakes that has them at a terrible turnover ratio. These next two games I expect people to follow the Rams defensive lead and especially stunts against this o-line.
Against Tenn and Minn I think Seattle can make mistakes and win, but new habits take consistency.
Defense, that's my real point here. When you have a defense like Seattle's, game management might be the best strategy against teams that are good on both sides of the ball. Not turning the ball over (deep in you end of the field especially), along with a strong punting game (still ranked 4th in the NFL), might not only be a good strategy, but profoundly wise. What's the old saying, take what they give you. Even doing that, you'll still get your shots. Patience is a virtue (exponentially with a good defense). Oh by the way it looks like K9 may be the primary back for awhile if you do Mike Speak.
One of the other notes I'll leave you with. Stafford gave a quick interview after the game and did the usual great team effort speech but I wasn't listening to his words, I was looking in his eyes. I saw deep concern there, right after the game. Seattle's defense got into his head. That may prove to be an asset in a few more weeks.
Of course the Seahawks should explore options at kicker if for no other reason than cost. However, long distance FGs aren't the only meaningful impact kickers make. Meyers is very good on PAT and good on kickoffs (I think his short kickoff this week was his first of the season.) Don't swap him just for the occasional long FG and lose his other skills, but if he loses a legitimate competition then move on.
The Seahawks played well on Sunday in all phases of the game (40 min TOP, 4/5 FG, 100+ yards rushing, Stafford's worst performance of year, etc.), but 4 interceptions and failure to get TDs vs. FGs were the only blemishes. That performance minus the TOs will win many, many games for a team.
I'd wager this is his last season with us. Kickers are said to start losing their leg strength around age 30 with most seeing a significant drop off around age 33. A few outliers like Adam Vinatieri have shattered this trend, but it seems to hold true for most. Jason Myers is 34 and the 7th highest paid player on the roster this season. The math just doesn't add up, and he's not looking like a guy who is going to buck the trend. I hate it because he's fun to root for and having stability at that position is huge. But if there's one thing the Mike Macdonald takeover has illustrated, player turnover can be a good thing.
For me there's an important distinction: Meyes did not lose the game, but he did not win it. A kicker very very rarely loses the game. However you want a kicker that will win you the game. Meyes is a good kicker but not great in the way a Tucker or a Vinatieri was, kickers you know would win you the game when called upon.
Does that mean move on from Jason? Maybe, depends how JS feels about finances and other options. But the important key to winning more games like Sundays isn't getting a new kicker. It's don't throw 4 INTs, it's score a TD before the 4th QTR. Bigger issues to resolve before we get to a new kicker.
I'm very, very relieved that Grey Zabel is going to be ok. Very, very, very relieved. Haynes looked awful IMHO. Mind you, he was put in a tough spot, but if that's the level of play we can expect from him, I'm looking for other options. It's been sooooo nice to not have to talk about how awful our o-line is, I don't want to go back to that world.
I'm sure the Titans would rather have faced the Seahawks after a win, and instead they'll get the extra salty version them.
An 8-2 record would be nice, but 7-3 is still good. It's only the 4th time in franchise history we've started 7-3, and each one of the prior 3 resulted in a playoff appearance. If/when we get there, we'll be able to compete with anyone, but I won't put the cart before the horse. Let's get there first.
I think I'll be attending that game on Sunday. I looked up ticket prices and was shocked how cheap seats were. Looks like those poor fans aren't even wanting to show up for this one.
As luck and schedule would have it, Mrs. Turtleman and I will not be making the TN game Sunday. I'm bummed, but she was only going to be able to stay overnight and I work Saturday. Back to back days with 8 hour road trips would just be more travel than time spent awake there. I guess watching them beat down the Panthers in a few weeks will have to suffice.
Re: the tush push. The call wasn't bad, especially they'd converted every single time to that point in the season. It was the awful execution that was bad. Barner never got down and drove at all, got stood up by the defense and stopped.
If I remember rightly, they actually changed the play. I think they had a couple of guys run out to the sides as a kind of decoy or something. Whatever it was, I remember commenting that something was different about it during the game chat. With those guys moving, I think they lost some oomph.
I imagine with rookies that it can be hard to take success at practice into the game day environment. It's not just the speed of the game and aggression of real opponents, but also the heightened significance a rookie might place on their first real snaps. It's definitely possible to get too hyped up for the opportunity, and then get out there and try to do too much. I'm thinking of Milroe as much as Kallerup with this comment. Of course, these guys might actually just not be that good.
I think this was mentioned on the broadcast I watched, and in fairness to Kallerup, that run was designed to go inside, so that's the leverage he had on his block. When Walker bounced it outside, Kallerup was on the wrong side of the defender, and was a tad slow getting his hands off of him. He does need to feel the defender pulling to his left and let go, but those are tricky plays even for vets. And IMHO he didn't need to hang on, as once K9 stuck his right foot in the ground, that defender was not going to beat him to the outside.
Yea not much can be expected of Kallerup. Clearly the coaches love what they’ve seen in practices this year. So we will see how that pans out long term.
Pete had an "always compete" mantra which might help with the kicking ...there are some young new strong kickers from various sports backgrounds out there that we could bring in behind Meyers which might press Meyers to upskill his game, OR use the backup in long kick situations. Regarding whether Rams are a better team at the moment....if 14 of their points came from Darnold inteceptions and we lost by 2 and would have won by 1 if we had been 10 yards closer, how are they a better team? They were AWOL for 2 quarters. I get that they got the "W" but Hawks are a better team by reviewing any of the stats.
If roles were completely reversed and the exact opposite of everything happened, the Seahawks win 21-19 and intercept Stafford 4 times, do you think the Seahawks should be called the lesser team despite the win?
My opinion is game respects game. It takes nothing away from the Seahawks.
Yup, a win is a win, I get it. I think the Hawks are the stronger team, evidenced by the outcomes as we finished the 4th quarter. There were national sports writers who had a similar take. Having just watched the M's season, I'm impressed with how player 'confidence' affects games I hope Mike can also fix Darnold's mindset.
I also wrote before the game that the Seahawks could lose and still be perceived as a better team this week than last week, which is what appears to have happened.
Jason Meyers scoring lots this season, seems pretty accurate but he's never been a big leg guy. Can't utilize him that way with any kind of success. Glad Zabel is OK, that's big. I like what I see against the rams for the most part, still some things to clean up. Sam will learn and grow from this, I'm not worried it will become the norm. We'll destroy the titans and be back on track for the super bowl. I'm already booking flights and hotel.
I’ve never been in a big hurry to move on from Myers, and after reading the article below I’m in even less of a hurry. His kickoffs have an EPA of 2.2 *per game.*
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6820928/2025/11/21/nfl-dyanmic-kickoffs-seahawks-panthers/?source=user_shared_articleHow 2 NFL teams are winning the game of inches, stealing yards on the ‘dynamic kickoff’
Disregard the previous post I was in the process of erasing it and it got posted
Rams won Seahawks lost IMHO because McVay was more aggressive. he gambled for touchdown., McDonald went for field goals. McVay almost lost the game for the very same reason when he went conservative at the very end
751672. I think the Seahawks have a pretty good chance of beating the Rams when they play the Rams at home.. The teams are closely matched at home-field advantage with teams this close will play a part. I would not put too much stock and some comments that I have read that the Seahawks will get an advantage from what they have learned from that game . The reason being that they are not taking into consideration, the fact that McVay has also learned what needs to be corrected. Everybody has a reason why the Seahawks lost. I might as well offer mine, the Seahawks lost, and the Rams almost lost for one reason.
McVay was more aggressive than. MAcdonald. Who is the coach of the Seahawks who is the coach of the Seahawks?
I had to stand back on this game and reflect on it, as well as seek others insight to have a grip of what I just saw on Sunday. The defense gave up a few big plays and then pretty much shut the door for mid 2nd quarter on. Devonte Adams did us some favors with two very uncharacteristic drops. That also might speak to Seattle's physical secondary in tight quarters. A little fear goes a long ways. While the defense adjusted it took the offense a long time to regroup. The turnovers stopped all momentum so they didn't get on track until late in the 2nd and fourth quarter. So how come. I heard Greg Olson point out the reason during the game, and I heard the same thing again this week on some other podcasts that covered the game. Most of the other defenses stacked the box against Seattle which gave more opportunity for big plays in the middle and downfield. The Rams were willing to let Seattle beat them in the short passing game using backs and TE's as well as the running game. They'll give up 5 or 7 yards not 20 plus. More plays, more chances for error. They weren't willing to concede the middle of the field 15 plus yards. They were less focused with outside perimeter throws downfield (WR at speed downfield) which were effective (JSN one handed), underthrown ball to Shaheed for a sure six and another JSN thrown on the right. When Seattle worked shorter quick routes in the shallow center they worked. Joe Klattt talked about Kubiak leaving less grey area in these types of games and more black and white play calling in situational football. Sam needs to not play "Hero Ball" and take the sure bet checks and run the ball in the light box. Barner's routes in tight coverage and Aroyo's is evident in the results. The old west coast back in the flat checks works in this type of defensive scheme. You might have a number of 3 yard no YAC, but that's a positive result against the Rams scheme. Sooner or later Seattle's backs will beat one on one after the catch and that throw is a safe throw.
Sam just needs to be more conservative against good defenses. He's only seen three this year in SF (with Bosa and Warner), Texas and the Rams. Pitt isn't at that level this year. Turnovers happened in all four of those games and we lost two. Credit Seattle defense and special teams in all the games.
I think Seattle can correct the mistakes that has them at a terrible turnover ratio. These next two games I expect people to follow the Rams defensive lead and especially stunts against this o-line.
Against Tenn and Minn I think Seattle can make mistakes and win, but new habits take consistency.
Defense, that's my real point here. When you have a defense like Seattle's, game management might be the best strategy against teams that are good on both sides of the ball. Not turning the ball over (deep in you end of the field especially), along with a strong punting game (still ranked 4th in the NFL), might not only be a good strategy, but profoundly wise. What's the old saying, take what they give you. Even doing that, you'll still get your shots. Patience is a virtue (exponentially with a good defense). Oh by the way it looks like K9 may be the primary back for awhile if you do Mike Speak.
One of the other notes I'll leave you with. Stafford gave a quick interview after the game and did the usual great team effort speech but I wasn't listening to his words, I was looking in his eyes. I saw deep concern there, right after the game. Seattle's defense got into his head. That may prove to be an asset in a few more weeks.
Of course the Seahawks should explore options at kicker if for no other reason than cost. However, long distance FGs aren't the only meaningful impact kickers make. Meyers is very good on PAT and good on kickoffs (I think his short kickoff this week was his first of the season.) Don't swap him just for the occasional long FG and lose his other skills, but if he loses a legitimate competition then move on.
The Seahawks played well on Sunday in all phases of the game (40 min TOP, 4/5 FG, 100+ yards rushing, Stafford's worst performance of year, etc.), but 4 interceptions and failure to get TDs vs. FGs were the only blemishes. That performance minus the TOs will win many, many games for a team.
I'd wager this is his last season with us. Kickers are said to start losing their leg strength around age 30 with most seeing a significant drop off around age 33. A few outliers like Adam Vinatieri have shattered this trend, but it seems to hold true for most. Jason Myers is 34 and the 7th highest paid player on the roster this season. The math just doesn't add up, and he's not looking like a guy who is going to buck the trend. I hate it because he's fun to root for and having stability at that position is huge. But if there's one thing the Mike Macdonald takeover has illustrated, player turnover can be a good thing.
For me there's an important distinction: Meyes did not lose the game, but he did not win it. A kicker very very rarely loses the game. However you want a kicker that will win you the game. Meyes is a good kicker but not great in the way a Tucker or a Vinatieri was, kickers you know would win you the game when called upon.
Does that mean move on from Jason? Maybe, depends how JS feels about finances and other options. But the important key to winning more games like Sundays isn't getting a new kicker. It's don't throw 4 INTs, it's score a TD before the 4th QTR. Bigger issues to resolve before we get to a new kicker.
I don’t know if anyone has said this yet, but Saubert is still with the team. He just got hurt and is on IR I’m pretty sure.
I'm very, very relieved that Grey Zabel is going to be ok. Very, very, very relieved. Haynes looked awful IMHO. Mind you, he was put in a tough spot, but if that's the level of play we can expect from him, I'm looking for other options. It's been sooooo nice to not have to talk about how awful our o-line is, I don't want to go back to that world.
I'm sure the Titans would rather have faced the Seahawks after a win, and instead they'll get the extra salty version them.
An 8-2 record would be nice, but 7-3 is still good. It's only the 4th time in franchise history we've started 7-3, and each one of the prior 3 resulted in a playoff appearance. If/when we get there, we'll be able to compete with anyone, but I won't put the cart before the horse. Let's get there first.
Could be that the Titans are looking to be #1 in the draft so their fans have already penciled in a nice big L.
I think I'll be attending that game on Sunday. I looked up ticket prices and was shocked how cheap seats were. Looks like those poor fans aren't even wanting to show up for this one.
That's great, Chuck. Double Bonus Time.
... the school bus i drive is the Turtle Bus.
As luck and schedule would have it, Mrs. Turtleman and I will not be making the TN game Sunday. I'm bummed, but she was only going to be able to stay overnight and I work Saturday. Back to back days with 8 hour road trips would just be more travel than time spent awake there. I guess watching them beat down the Panthers in a few weeks will have to suffice.
GREAT News that Grey Zabel is not seriously injured. Whew. Heal up fully well, Mr. Zabel.
We didn't get Greyson McCall but the Seahawks Do have an Important Grey.
All that energy 'n hope came to fruition, just in a different way.
Re: the tush push. The call wasn't bad, especially they'd converted every single time to that point in the season. It was the awful execution that was bad. Barner never got down and drove at all, got stood up by the defense and stopped.
And Outzs motioned like a trick play instead of PUSHING lol
That was the problem. That play is undefeated on the season when ran as designed. But we got cute.
I like that KK is willing to do new things but I wish he would let the things that are working alone.
Just reading this now. I didn't think they ran this in the usual way.
If I remember rightly, they actually changed the play. I think they had a couple of guys run out to the sides as a kind of decoy or something. Whatever it was, I remember commenting that something was different about it during the game chat. With those guys moving, I think they lost some oomph.
I don't think he had Robbie Smash behind him either, did he?
True that. I’m all for calling the high percentage plays.
If the Seahawks could beat the Rams but be “the worse team” I would take that result every. Single. Time.
I would as well, but I don't think you need to worry about that. We're too good. :)
I imagine with rookies that it can be hard to take success at practice into the game day environment. It's not just the speed of the game and aggression of real opponents, but also the heightened significance a rookie might place on their first real snaps. It's definitely possible to get too hyped up for the opportunity, and then get out there and try to do too much. I'm thinking of Milroe as much as Kallerup with this comment. Of course, these guys might actually just not be that good.
I think this was mentioned on the broadcast I watched, and in fairness to Kallerup, that run was designed to go inside, so that's the leverage he had on his block. When Walker bounced it outside, Kallerup was on the wrong side of the defender, and was a tad slow getting his hands off of him. He does need to feel the defender pulling to his left and let go, but those are tricky plays even for vets. And IMHO he didn't need to hang on, as once K9 stuck his right foot in the ground, that defender was not going to beat him to the outside.
Lesson learned for the young man.
They all need reps, no matter how talented.
Yea not much can be expected of Kallerup. Clearly the coaches love what they’ve seen in practices this year. So we will see how that pans out long term.
Pete had an "always compete" mantra which might help with the kicking ...there are some young new strong kickers from various sports backgrounds out there that we could bring in behind Meyers which might press Meyers to upskill his game, OR use the backup in long kick situations. Regarding whether Rams are a better team at the moment....if 14 of their points came from Darnold inteceptions and we lost by 2 and would have won by 1 if we had been 10 yards closer, how are they a better team? They were AWOL for 2 quarters. I get that they got the "W" but Hawks are a better team by reviewing any of the stats.
Exactly...we played great football most of the game.
If roles were completely reversed and the exact opposite of everything happened, the Seahawks win 21-19 and intercept Stafford 4 times, do you think the Seahawks should be called the lesser team despite the win?
My opinion is game respects game. It takes nothing away from the Seahawks.
Yup, a win is a win, I get it. I think the Hawks are the stronger team, evidenced by the outcomes as we finished the 4th quarter. There were national sports writers who had a similar take. Having just watched the M's season, I'm impressed with how player 'confidence' affects games I hope Mike can also fix Darnold's mindset.
I also wrote before the game that the Seahawks could lose and still be perceived as a better team this week than last week, which is what appears to have happened.
I agree. The Rams didn't have any TDs called back for penalty. The Hawks did. That is what lost the game.
It was a hold and I think the best thing any team or player can do is hold themselves accountable and try to get better from it.
I don't think they Released Saubert. I think he's on IR
My mistake. They did release Saubert earlier this season in a roster shuffling move and I mixed that up.
Agree.
Jason Meyers scoring lots this season, seems pretty accurate but he's never been a big leg guy. Can't utilize him that way with any kind of success. Glad Zabel is OK, that's big. I like what I see against the rams for the most part, still some things to clean up. Sam will learn and grow from this, I'm not worried it will become the norm. We'll destroy the titans and be back on track for the super bowl. I'm already booking flights and hotel.
An easy win over the titans will have the vibes right as rain.
To me, the Titan's game seems more like a trap game. I hope that's not the case and I hope that Zabel is able to play.
I would hope that after a lose the next game is a must win game.
A trap game after a loss? I don't see it.