Re QB and Pete, my take is that he sees the basic question as this: How do you build a consistently contending team knowing that getting an HOF-level QB is mostly a matter of luck? The answer is that you develop a roster whose success doesn’t depend on any one position group but that does have game-changing talents regardless of position. You also pay attention to the basics, which in football means a balanced offense and a strong defense.
This doesn’t mean that the QB is a game manager. When Carroll talks about the QB being a point guard, a 70-year old sports fan has John Stockton in mind. Carroll has invoked Bart Starr more than once, and Bart Starr does happen to be in the HOF. To me, this means that Carroll wants a QB with a feel for the pace of the game and the opponent’s strength and weaknesses, who thrives under pressure, and who can make the big play when the chance presents itself.
Neither here nor there. Carroll and Schneider like Lock’s talent and don’t believe that he was ever put in position to succeed in Denver. Just because they would like to see what Lock can do in a better situation doesn’t mean that they are certain that he is the answer: Nothing about the way Carroll views the position suggests that he thinks just anyone can play it.
The SB team was built across three drafts, a great trade, and—realistically—a once in a generation fluke when Bennett and Avril were still available in the second wave of free agency.
I think they sincerely believe he may be decent. I doubt either thinks he's gonna make anyone forget Russell Wilson but he may be good enough to hold things down. Teams with QBs less talented than Russ have made deep playoff runs and even won superbowls. I don't think we're remotely there yet but it's not all about the QB.
I think it unlikely. It's always unlikely a new QB is going to prove capable of carrying a team and a franchise. Even with the best of the best prospects, it's maybe 50/50. Goff was supposed to be the guy for LA. Wentz for Philly. They were selected 1-2. I'd be surprised if last year's 5 first round QBs plus this year's 1 results in more than 3 franchise QBs.
Lock didn't get a totally fair shake in Denver. But it's still a long shot.
Please don't feel at all upset or embarrassed by predictions that were off. You keep going out on a limb with daring predictions. No one can do that and get them all right. Yes, you were 180 degrees off on Cross. Totally understandable in that you share your opinions openly. When one does that, it's inevitable we'll be wrong sometimes. That goes for everyone.
You were dead on in predicting Seattle would not expend a high pick on a QB this year. You've been right about a lot of things. Now, if you're extending that to next year and asserting Seattle won't go high on a QB, we disagree. I could see Seattle picking someone worthy. I think you're overreading in Carroll an aversion to spending draft capital on QBs. My read is he valued Wilson a great deal and didn't want to part with him but rather was forced into it by Wilson. Was a question of getting value for him or letting that value slip away.
For the last ten years there had been no need to spend draft capital on a QB so we shouldn't read anything into the fact that it didn't happen. I don't see Seattle trading enormous draft capital to move up to pick a questionable guy like Trey Lance. I'd like to think both Pete and John are too smart for that (though it could still work out for San Fran -- we'll see). But I could see them moving up for someone as likely to be successful as Lawrence or Zach Wilson were in 2021.
I've been very happy with the results of this draft so far. Envious of the Jets (of all teams) but thrilled that Pete and John haven't gotten cute this time around. Good, smart picks that represent wise risks with precious draft capital.
Great draft. No reaching. No trading down. No questionable QB. Cross will be pro bowl LTfor years. Walker best RB in the draft.( no guarantee Carson can play again) Mafe the edge they needed and RT Lucas a mean, nasty mauler. Now if they draft the QB sleeper Carson Strong ill be a very happy camper.
As a complete amatuer GM, I am well aware of my limitations, and defer to professionals. As someone said about Malik Willis, "He doesn't even know what he doesn't know" and I could say the same thing about myself. I remember once when Pete was frustrated he started an after game interview telling the reporters they just didn't know what they don't know.
As a professional fisherman, I laugh at people who come on my boat and try to tell me what and how to do things. Their suggestions are often things I have tried and discarded for one reason or another.
On the other hand ... pretending we know what we don't know is more fun, and people almost start to believe they actually know what they don't know. I'm having fun. Anyone who gets angry about this stuff is missing the whole point.
And when someone gets on your fishing boat, I'm sure they respect your knowledge and experience on fishing. It's unimaginable that people can't play the role of observer and student while still having a right to their opinion, when it comes to watching sports. It's good to disagree with the head honchos, but it's unconscionable that so many have the ego to think that they know everything.
Frankly I am lovin the Hawks draft . Wanted both those OTs . Easier to coach run blocking than pass blocking. Walker as a tackle breaking YAC master helps that OT learning curve. We did get a good edge guy ( though I know the least about him of the 3 ). I would like to see an LB and a CB soon, possibly ending with a kicker. WOOLEN seems to draw my eye . 3rd day CB with size , length and speed . Late position change from WR so raw , but would have HAWKING skills sounds SO FAMILIAR!
Your lucid analysis and lack of "hot takes" is greatly appreciated.
Having played and coached at lower levels, and been "inside the building" in Eugene, Renton and elsewhere (as an invited guest, not an employee), the distinct lack of legit analysis and over-abundance of poorly-formed opinions in sports media -- frequently from a position of zero practical game knowledge beyond "learned lingo" -- has always been annoying.
For every Dave Wyman, imparting actual football knowledge and on-the-field insight, there's a hundred (often very hard-working) wanna-be sportscasters and reporters adding little more than a little more cacophony to the mass media echo chamber.
Your efforts to avoid injecting personal opinion and bias, and develop a clear (if speculative) understanding of what's actually happening inside VMAC are what set you apart in my mind. This old dog out of the PNW is happy to have found your work.
As for the subject at hand, the first two days of the draft feel a lot like this year's Mariners out of the blocks: exciting, hopeful and fun. Bookend OTs, a mailed fist at DE and the best pure runner in the draft. Unlike the Twits, I was *ecstatic* when Walker was picked.
If there's a player who can physically come back from offseason cervical fusion surgery, it's probably Chris Carson. From his workout videos to in-game superhero landings, he's clearly demonstrated TMF status. Meanwhile, I'm shocked (and yes, appalled) at the collective memory loss among the 12's.
How did we lose Bam-Bam again...?
Based on gut feelings informed by personal experience AND four decades observing the game up-close, I'm comfortable making the following assertions :
1) I won't be surprised if the "old-new look" 'Hawks finish the season with a winning record, even if they don't take the division. All the post-Wilson "doom & gloom" in the media today is just as ludicrous as the draft grades levelled at the team after the 2012 draft a DECADE ago.
2) The 'Hawks and their Top-5 run-based offense will NOT be boring. Think about it : in the eyes of the national media, this is DK's team now. He's their biggest star, the new face of the team. I'll bet you a Eurobuck he ditches the pacifier this season -- and makes a legit run at 2K. Boo-yah.
3) Look at the RCVR room; DK and Lockett, Eskridge and Swain are a solid WR1-4. A healthy Penny, Walker, Homer and Dallas gives them an above-average RB room. My gut feeling on Noah Fant is positive. Barring 49'er levels of injury (touching wood), they have weapons.
4) Finally, we'll have a QB under center who can see over the bloody O-line. Don't read this wrong. Wilson arrived in Seattle an underappreciated talent, worked his a** off, and proved an über-successful athlete within Carroll's program and philosophy. As his skills, salary -- and self-image -- expanded, the challenges started piling up.
[ FULL DISCLOSURE : I've never been able to let go of the suspicion RW3 changed THE play at the line on the 1 and Carroll has been running interference for him ever since. It's still just a hunch, but it would go a long way to explaining the "aftermath".]
5) RW3 departed a legend *still* in the making and we should wish him all the best. He gave his all for ten solid seasons. The thing is, and he won't admit it out loud, even Russ has limits. Which is why he was moved this year. Last season provided clarity (see speculation below). It was time. If he'd played with the 'Hawks this season and struggled even a bit, there goes his trade value.
6) I'm actually MORE excited about this season's team than I have been in a few years. All the hemming, hawing and hand-waving among the mass media horde -- and everyone caught in the whirlpool of their never-ending spin cycle -- is exactly the same flavor of hot air it's always been.
I'll close with a personal speculation. There were a few specific moments on-camera last year where it was possible to observe player reactions on the sidelines. Between the body language and visible "eye-rolling" in reaction to Wilson's vocalizing, I began to suspect he might be losing the team. Perhaps that was part of the larger problem...?
True or not, it's nonetheless been a pleasure to watch JS & PC back in their element. Based on what they accomplished on their first go 'round, I'm looking forward to this new version. NFC West title or not, they're going to be *scary* fast on both sides of the ball.
I'm a little stunned that the Hawks didn't trade down and actually picked players that I know the names of. I prepared for the unexpected to happen, not that it would be a negative, just seemingly the usual Hawk draft. I have to admit that I'm elated about their first 4 picks and am fine with whatever happens next because of the quality of players already gotten.
Watching as much as I can about this rebuild, starting with the RW trade, gives a really good view of why Pete traded Russell. Pete creates actual teams. He wants confident players who have fun competing. There's a reason the Seahawks are brought up constantly by commentators no matter what two teams are on the field. Watching the Hawks on the sidelines is as much fun as watching them run a fabulous play.
As much as the pundits screw with fan expectations through their detached predictions, I fear they also tell the fans what's wrong with the team during the season. Were the offensive players tasked with protecting Russell more responsible for his sacks than he was, really? Were they responsible for his interceptions, and missed targets? The Hawks won more than one game because of the Defense, and scores made when Wilson wasn't even on the field. I will enjoy seeing if the Broncos become the commentator's comparison to every other team this season because since the Wilson trade the Seahawks are still the most visible focus of the media.
IMHO, Pete Carroll is why the media is so fascinated by the Seahawks. There's no other coach so enthusiastically attached to his team. Love him, or hate him, the man is entertainment and his team has fun. (I love Lockett's intro where he calls out his elementary school, and DK's pacifier, and the team chant at the opening of the tunnel, but that's because I don't know enough about football, I suppose).
"I love Lockett's intro where he calls out his elementary school ..."
Rozone, that's one of coolest (and warmest) moments in pro football for me. Also, Young Pete, smiling, chewing gum and running along the sideline is fun to watch.
Re QB and Pete, my take is that he sees the basic question as this: How do you build a consistently contending team knowing that getting an HOF-level QB is mostly a matter of luck? The answer is that you develop a roster whose success doesn’t depend on any one position group but that does have game-changing talents regardless of position. You also pay attention to the basics, which in football means a balanced offense and a strong defense.
This doesn’t mean that the QB is a game manager. When Carroll talks about the QB being a point guard, a 70-year old sports fan has John Stockton in mind. Carroll has invoked Bart Starr more than once, and Bart Starr does happen to be in the HOF. To me, this means that Carroll wants a QB with a feel for the pace of the game and the opponent’s strength and weaknesses, who thrives under pressure, and who can make the big play when the chance presents itself.
Unfortunately that isn't Drew Lock. A complete bust in Denver. Sorry.
Neither here nor there. Carroll and Schneider like Lock’s talent and don’t believe that he was ever put in position to succeed in Denver. Just because they would like to see what Lock can do in a better situation doesn’t mean that they are certain that he is the answer: Nothing about the way Carroll views the position suggests that he thinks just anyone can play it.
After this great draft I think the Hawks are a good QB. away from the playoffs. Why not have a QB. competition adding a proven winner like
Minshew or Mayfield to the QB. room?
Because neither of them are good enough to consistently take a team deep into the playoffs.
I doubt we're there yet. If this draft pans out and the next one does too, maybe. This year I think we're sub-500. The question is how sub.
The SB team was built across three drafts, a great trade, and—realistically—a once in a generation fluke when Bennett and Avril were still available in the second wave of free agency.
Lock has the temperament to play that way. We'll see if he has the talent.
He lost his starting job to future HOF Bridgewater.
The difference being that Bridgewater is a known quantity whereas, to Carroll and Schneider, Locke is not.
My point exactly. I think Carrol and Schneider are hyping Lock because he's replacing a future HOF. CYA
I think they sincerely believe he may be decent. I doubt either thinks he's gonna make anyone forget Russell Wilson but he may be good enough to hold things down. Teams with QBs less talented than Russ have made deep playoff runs and even won superbowls. I don't think we're remotely there yet but it's not all about the QB.
Good luck with Locks talent.
I think it unlikely. It's always unlikely a new QB is going to prove capable of carrying a team and a franchise. Even with the best of the best prospects, it's maybe 50/50. Goff was supposed to be the guy for LA. Wentz for Philly. They were selected 1-2. I'd be surprised if last year's 5 first round QBs plus this year's 1 results in more than 3 franchise QBs.
Lock didn't get a totally fair shake in Denver. But it's still a long shot.
Tariq Woolen, Richard Sherman 2.0 great pic
Please don't feel at all upset or embarrassed by predictions that were off. You keep going out on a limb with daring predictions. No one can do that and get them all right. Yes, you were 180 degrees off on Cross. Totally understandable in that you share your opinions openly. When one does that, it's inevitable we'll be wrong sometimes. That goes for everyone.
You were dead on in predicting Seattle would not expend a high pick on a QB this year. You've been right about a lot of things. Now, if you're extending that to next year and asserting Seattle won't go high on a QB, we disagree. I could see Seattle picking someone worthy. I think you're overreading in Carroll an aversion to spending draft capital on QBs. My read is he valued Wilson a great deal and didn't want to part with him but rather was forced into it by Wilson. Was a question of getting value for him or letting that value slip away.
For the last ten years there had been no need to spend draft capital on a QB so we shouldn't read anything into the fact that it didn't happen. I don't see Seattle trading enormous draft capital to move up to pick a questionable guy like Trey Lance. I'd like to think both Pete and John are too smart for that (though it could still work out for San Fran -- we'll see). But I could see them moving up for someone as likely to be successful as Lawrence or Zach Wilson were in 2021.
I've been very happy with the results of this draft so far. Envious of the Jets (of all teams) but thrilled that Pete and John haven't gotten cute this time around. Good, smart picks that represent wise risks with precious draft capital.
WOW! Did not think they would pick WOOLEN after KOBY ( Au Jus ) BRYANT . Im happy ! ( Cincinnati coverage , sauce or Ah , Juice ! LOL )
Great draft. No reaching. No trading down. No questionable QB. Cross will be pro bowl LTfor years. Walker best RB in the draft.( no guarantee Carson can play again) Mafe the edge they needed and RT Lucas a mean, nasty mauler. Now if they draft the QB sleeper Carson Strong ill be a very happy camper.
Am very happy with the results of draft.
Looks like we saw a hole & filled it. Etc etc etc
Also Very happy we didn’t waste a pick on a QB.
Hoping that we pick Cade York 50 yd field goal kicker.
Maybe worth 1-2 games next season.
Who is Kenneth Murray?
I think he's Kyler Walkers cousin, or something
As a complete amatuer GM, I am well aware of my limitations, and defer to professionals. As someone said about Malik Willis, "He doesn't even know what he doesn't know" and I could say the same thing about myself. I remember once when Pete was frustrated he started an after game interview telling the reporters they just didn't know what they don't know.
As a professional fisherman, I laugh at people who come on my boat and try to tell me what and how to do things. Their suggestions are often things I have tried and discarded for one reason or another.
On the other hand ... pretending we know what we don't know is more fun, and people almost start to believe they actually know what they don't know. I'm having fun. Anyone who gets angry about this stuff is missing the whole point.
And when someone gets on your fishing boat, I'm sure they respect your knowledge and experience on fishing. It's unimaginable that people can't play the role of observer and student while still having a right to their opinion, when it comes to watching sports. It's good to disagree with the head honchos, but it's unconscionable that so many have the ego to think that they know everything.
Frankly I am lovin the Hawks draft . Wanted both those OTs . Easier to coach run blocking than pass blocking. Walker as a tackle breaking YAC master helps that OT learning curve. We did get a good edge guy ( though I know the least about him of the 3 ). I would like to see an LB and a CB soon, possibly ending with a kicker. WOOLEN seems to draw my eye . 3rd day CB with size , length and speed . Late position change from WR so raw , but would have HAWKING skills sounds SO FAMILIAR!
A life long Viking fan friend texted me writing " you'll love Mafe. The steal of the draft."
Your lucid analysis and lack of "hot takes" is greatly appreciated.
Having played and coached at lower levels, and been "inside the building" in Eugene, Renton and elsewhere (as an invited guest, not an employee), the distinct lack of legit analysis and over-abundance of poorly-formed opinions in sports media -- frequently from a position of zero practical game knowledge beyond "learned lingo" -- has always been annoying.
For every Dave Wyman, imparting actual football knowledge and on-the-field insight, there's a hundred (often very hard-working) wanna-be sportscasters and reporters adding little more than a little more cacophony to the mass media echo chamber.
Your efforts to avoid injecting personal opinion and bias, and develop a clear (if speculative) understanding of what's actually happening inside VMAC are what set you apart in my mind. This old dog out of the PNW is happy to have found your work.
As for the subject at hand, the first two days of the draft feel a lot like this year's Mariners out of the blocks: exciting, hopeful and fun. Bookend OTs, a mailed fist at DE and the best pure runner in the draft. Unlike the Twits, I was *ecstatic* when Walker was picked.
If there's a player who can physically come back from offseason cervical fusion surgery, it's probably Chris Carson. From his workout videos to in-game superhero landings, he's clearly demonstrated TMF status. Meanwhile, I'm shocked (and yes, appalled) at the collective memory loss among the 12's.
How did we lose Bam-Bam again...?
Based on gut feelings informed by personal experience AND four decades observing the game up-close, I'm comfortable making the following assertions :
1) I won't be surprised if the "old-new look" 'Hawks finish the season with a winning record, even if they don't take the division. All the post-Wilson "doom & gloom" in the media today is just as ludicrous as the draft grades levelled at the team after the 2012 draft a DECADE ago.
2) The 'Hawks and their Top-5 run-based offense will NOT be boring. Think about it : in the eyes of the national media, this is DK's team now. He's their biggest star, the new face of the team. I'll bet you a Eurobuck he ditches the pacifier this season -- and makes a legit run at 2K. Boo-yah.
3) Look at the RCVR room; DK and Lockett, Eskridge and Swain are a solid WR1-4. A healthy Penny, Walker, Homer and Dallas gives them an above-average RB room. My gut feeling on Noah Fant is positive. Barring 49'er levels of injury (touching wood), they have weapons.
4) Finally, we'll have a QB under center who can see over the bloody O-line. Don't read this wrong. Wilson arrived in Seattle an underappreciated talent, worked his a** off, and proved an über-successful athlete within Carroll's program and philosophy. As his skills, salary -- and self-image -- expanded, the challenges started piling up.
[ FULL DISCLOSURE : I've never been able to let go of the suspicion RW3 changed THE play at the line on the 1 and Carroll has been running interference for him ever since. It's still just a hunch, but it would go a long way to explaining the "aftermath".]
5) RW3 departed a legend *still* in the making and we should wish him all the best. He gave his all for ten solid seasons. The thing is, and he won't admit it out loud, even Russ has limits. Which is why he was moved this year. Last season provided clarity (see speculation below). It was time. If he'd played with the 'Hawks this season and struggled even a bit, there goes his trade value.
6) I'm actually MORE excited about this season's team than I have been in a few years. All the hemming, hawing and hand-waving among the mass media horde -- and everyone caught in the whirlpool of their never-ending spin cycle -- is exactly the same flavor of hot air it's always been.
I'll close with a personal speculation. There were a few specific moments on-camera last year where it was possible to observe player reactions on the sidelines. Between the body language and visible "eye-rolling" in reaction to Wilson's vocalizing, I began to suspect he might be losing the team. Perhaps that was part of the larger problem...?
True or not, it's nonetheless been a pleasure to watch JS & PC back in their element. Based on what they accomplished on their first go 'round, I'm looking forward to this new version. NFC West title or not, they're going to be *scary* fast on both sides of the ball.
Go 'Hawks.
I'm a little stunned that the Hawks didn't trade down and actually picked players that I know the names of. I prepared for the unexpected to happen, not that it would be a negative, just seemingly the usual Hawk draft. I have to admit that I'm elated about their first 4 picks and am fine with whatever happens next because of the quality of players already gotten.
Watching as much as I can about this rebuild, starting with the RW trade, gives a really good view of why Pete traded Russell. Pete creates actual teams. He wants confident players who have fun competing. There's a reason the Seahawks are brought up constantly by commentators no matter what two teams are on the field. Watching the Hawks on the sidelines is as much fun as watching them run a fabulous play.
As much as the pundits screw with fan expectations through their detached predictions, I fear they also tell the fans what's wrong with the team during the season. Were the offensive players tasked with protecting Russell more responsible for his sacks than he was, really? Were they responsible for his interceptions, and missed targets? The Hawks won more than one game because of the Defense, and scores made when Wilson wasn't even on the field. I will enjoy seeing if the Broncos become the commentator's comparison to every other team this season because since the Wilson trade the Seahawks are still the most visible focus of the media.
IMHO, Pete Carroll is why the media is so fascinated by the Seahawks. There's no other coach so enthusiastically attached to his team. Love him, or hate him, the man is entertainment and his team has fun. (I love Lockett's intro where he calls out his elementary school, and DK's pacifier, and the team chant at the opening of the tunnel, but that's because I don't know enough about football, I suppose).
"I love Lockett's intro where he calls out his elementary school ..."
Rozone, that's one of coolest (and warmest) moments in pro football for me. Also, Young Pete, smiling, chewing gum and running along the sideline is fun to watch.