Instead of taking a player too good to ignore, this has the feel of MacD's focus on effective repairs. He KNOWS what these guys bring to an area of specific need. I feel my optimism that this coach will prove himself a genius as a Head Coach is being vindicated. Include Schneider for making these moves and we can see our upper management is visionary. HooRah. Go Hawks. Gonna be a wild ride. Full dive. Talons out.
THIS! PC was steadfast in his fealty to “his” guys — to a fault. If a rookie coach is worth anything, it’s in cutting losses, moving to the next chess piece and building the team he believes is actually the embodiment of his vision. This also speaks volumes about the front office’s willingness to take a dead money hit rather than sit still. Look at this DIVISION! If you decide to be conservative with your $$ just forget about competing. You won’t. The Rams regularly eat dead money and work “creatively” around the cap. Seattle has refused to do that… but at some point if everyone else is dancing to a faster beat you catch up or you’re left in the dust.
Way too early , but I can't wait to see what improvements the off season brings. MM is just a few good additions from a SB contender. Glad too see Lucas coming back, an absolute beast.
Ok, SSJ, I have been thinking about it for quite awhile now, and you asked, and it comes up again in this article, where the Hawks are bringing in players most Seattlittes haven't heard of, to Start this Sunday.
Typically, when starters go down, we expect replacements to come from the team’s lower echelons.
So I am asking you a couple of related questions here...
Why is the squad limited to 53 players plus an evolving practice squad, when we so frequently need to go outside to get STARTING replacements?
How many other teams are also hiring from outside?
How many healthy revolving players are being used per year in the pool of those chosen?
And why doesn’t the NFL expand the rosters or practice squads?
What is going on behind the scenes to hold these numbers where they are and who wants to expand them and who doesn't?
I’ll take a shot: at the time a roster is constructed you are limited to only the players that are available to you, and you also can’t predict how those players will actually perform or whether they might get injured.
Injuries happen, other players become available, so decisions are made.
Yup and all those players - the ones you sign plus the ones you end up having to sign during the season, have salaries that somehow have to fit under the NFL annual salary cap which is a fairly "hard" salary cap, unlike MLB where contenders like Yanks/Dodgers go over the cap, but then pay a "luxury tax" which is redistributed to "pretenders" like the M's (off-topic, couldn't resist ;-)
Most of the answers to your questions are the players contract with the League. It outlines all these rules and as to why I will leave to a more detailed answer from someone more knowledgeable on that subject. My guess is it is about money, but then that is true more often than not on almost everything.
I'm thinking the agents are there to keep the guys from thinking about the money chase. Just get out and do your physical BEST. Let the chips fall where they may. Players seem ignorant to stats...
A couple of good replies here but I’m not sure you are seeing things fully, at least from the 53 man roster perspective. You are correct about “coming” from the backups. But in this years case, and recently since the switch to a so called 3-4 defense (we’re not in a 3-4 in the traditional sense), Seattle hasn’t had depth at off ball LB. No depth there, and the unusual situation at tackle specifically RT, as required street players. Jerrell was the 4th RT to play/slated to play for the Hawks in 7 games. At LB, or like KC Chiefs an undefeated team, a position of need led to trades. KC needed a WR so Hopkins. Baker experiment is a failure and we had no depth. Titans and Browns are tanking now (bad QB and no QB) so trades happening. In years past you haven’t seen this in season much, other than PS and most of the was again due to depth. Need to field basically 2 sets of teams during the week and so like “camp arms” you make changes there a lot. Plus after a few weeks certain players do not pan out like the scouts thought they would.
During the preseason JS talked a bit about how his pool of players is not limited to the 53-man roster or the 16-man practice squad. The rules dictate these personnel restrictions, but at any given time JS and his team are keeping tabs on 150-200ish players around the league (or flipping square burgers at Wendy's).
I think it's rare, however, when a player is brought in from outside (not on active or practice squad rosters) and asked to start. This might happen in a parallel move, like Jones starting from the Titans and now starting for us. But I don't think we, or any team, has a need to frequently go outside their organization to get STARTING replacements.
This is all great news. We just got a great linebacker with Jones that plays the run well. We get our best potential lineman, when healthy, back and Macd isn’t done. He went and got guys who at least play sound ball in his scheme. We just need a few more of his guys added the next one or two offseason’s and we should be there or dang close
It's interesting; like Baker, I heard Jones' contract expires after '24.
Hawks gave up/invested a 4th. If Jones pans out, Hawks will have competition to re-sign or let him go for a '26 comp pick. It seems like JS/MM are partnering in aggressive risk taking to improve the team NOW, like they have common vision - a good thing.
I'm glad the team is making changes they see as necessary to put together a winning team. We all know that Macdonald's system didn't come together until they acquired Raquan Smith (?). I'm assuming he and John agree these changes will benefit the team, and I say welcome one and all.
McDonald continues to slowly rework this roster in his image. I feel like ILB is the straw that stirs the drink in his defensive scheme, and he’s still looking for his Patrick Queen. We’ll see if Jones is the guy. And I hope he’s looking forward to the Rams’ games.
SJ I think maybe was rookie year some at LT(??) but Stone potentially resigned because there is need for at least 2 back up OT (left and right). Still have both. And I too said same about Stone. He didn’t give up sacks to 2 of the best rushers in the NFL. He’s a big fellow so maybe sticks around.
When they made the trade for Robertson-Harris I was a bit worried JS thought the roster was closer to completion than it is (IMO), and I didn't like the idea of sending out draft picks mid season. After two more moves today, it feels like they are back to 2010/2011 and are they are being aggressive and moving players out who aren't going to be in their long term plans, and are giving new players some games this year to see if they fit.
I suppose this could accelerate refining the roster, rather than trying to fix everything in the offseason. You're getting through more options more quickly this way. The downside, we'll have fewer picks in the draft lottery, albeit with lower picks (day 3) with a lower likelihood of hitting on a difference maker. No perfect way to do this.
I like the aggression, and I like they are getting off of 'mistakes' quickly. But, I've always been a build through the draft kind of guy, so think patience is a key ingredient to that. There is such a lack of patience in the league now though (and even more so with fans) that maybe the 'build through the draft' days are over for the most part.
Building through the draft is always the primary goal, because when done successfully, it's the most cost effective way to build a championship roster. Those days will never be over. Even the best (luckiest) GMs at drafting, however, must make trade/FA moves at just the right time to compliment their good drafting. If you've had a good 2 or 3 years of drafting in a row, then those picks may just be reaching their potential and adding a few key vets to the mix can take them and the team to the next level. I hope that's what we're getting to this year and especially next season.
Starting to feel like 2010 'Hawks a lot more this week. Bit of breakout performance (although hard to know where the Falcons really sit). More openness on roster churn to find the right players. I see a lot of JS influence here, helping to guide MM. MM feeds to JS what he's looking for, JS going and finding that, allowing MM to worry about coaching and gameplan. It really feels like 2010 and way before PC became defacto GM himself in the later years.
Chiming in late to add that I like this kind of nibbling improvement. We get, what, a 24-year-old linebacker who assuredly plays better than this year's fourth-round choice? And a guy the head coach knows already coming off an ankle injury that made him expendable. All that at a position of need. First time this season I've been on the same page with our GM, even though I know we're reading very different books.
Also...53-man-roster/practice squad. I think I commented on that earlier this season. I think the NFLPA is making a mistake...two mistakes. I think the league allows itself to pay too much for a handful of players (Deshaun Watson, anyone?), which isn't on the union, and the union should negotiate bigger squads because teams need more players. It's a 17-game season, for Pete's sake. I'd love to know if and how many practice squad players really develop into long-term NFL starters, or if everybody just uses that designation to fill out special teams. I'm not convinced the league does a good job developing talent; I don't know that there's even time for that.
“North Carolina State quarterback Grayson McCall, sidelined after suffering a concussion this month on a jarring hit during a game against Wake Forest, announced Wednesday that he will no longer play football.
“McCall, a redshirt senior who was in his first season with the Wolfpack after achieving great success at Coastal Carolina, said he made his decision after consulting with experts on head injuries.
“Brain specialists, my family, and I have come to the conclusion that it is in my best interest to hang the cleats up,” he wrote on Instagram.”
With other Substack article comments, I often wish a down-thumb response was available. With Seaside Joe's articles, I wish there was a Like All the Comments response available. You guys are all great!
I feel like I just tuned into Oprah: You get a LB and YOU get a LB!
When I saw the title I thought Barrett! But Ross is a good pick up with potential to develop.
Instead of taking a player too good to ignore, this has the feel of MacD's focus on effective repairs. He KNOWS what these guys bring to an area of specific need. I feel my optimism that this coach will prove himself a genius as a Head Coach is being vindicated. Include Schneider for making these moves and we can see our upper management is visionary. HooRah. Go Hawks. Gonna be a wild ride. Full dive. Talons out.
I am all for JS & MM not hanging on to "being right" for too long, and making moves when they are needed and available.... at ANY time.
THIS! PC was steadfast in his fealty to “his” guys — to a fault. If a rookie coach is worth anything, it’s in cutting losses, moving to the next chess piece and building the team he believes is actually the embodiment of his vision. This also speaks volumes about the front office’s willingness to take a dead money hit rather than sit still. Look at this DIVISION! If you decide to be conservative with your $$ just forget about competing. You won’t. The Rams regularly eat dead money and work “creatively” around the cap. Seattle has refused to do that… but at some point if everyone else is dancing to a faster beat you catch up or you’re left in the dust.
Way too early , but I can't wait to see what improvements the off season brings. MM is just a few good additions from a SB contender. Glad too see Lucas coming back, an absolute beast.
Ok, SSJ, I have been thinking about it for quite awhile now, and you asked, and it comes up again in this article, where the Hawks are bringing in players most Seattlittes haven't heard of, to Start this Sunday.
Typically, when starters go down, we expect replacements to come from the team’s lower echelons.
So I am asking you a couple of related questions here...
Why is the squad limited to 53 players plus an evolving practice squad, when we so frequently need to go outside to get STARTING replacements?
How many other teams are also hiring from outside?
How many healthy revolving players are being used per year in the pool of those chosen?
And why doesn’t the NFL expand the rosters or practice squads?
What is going on behind the scenes to hold these numbers where they are and who wants to expand them and who doesn't?
Thanks for considering the question.
Is there maybe 1 of these questions you'd rank as your #1 question?
ok. I think I would start by asking how many total players make the active roster in a typical year and how does that compare with other teams?
My follow up question asks how many players are brought in from outside during the average year and has that also been true for the other teams?
I’ll take a shot: at the time a roster is constructed you are limited to only the players that are available to you, and you also can’t predict how those players will actually perform or whether they might get injured.
Injuries happen, other players become available, so decisions are made.
Yup and all those players - the ones you sign plus the ones you end up having to sign during the season, have salaries that somehow have to fit under the NFL annual salary cap which is a fairly "hard" salary cap, unlike MLB where contenders like Yanks/Dodgers go over the cap, but then pay a "luxury tax" which is redistributed to "pretenders" like the M's (off-topic, couldn't resist ;-)
Most of the answers to your questions are the players contract with the League. It outlines all these rules and as to why I will leave to a more detailed answer from someone more knowledgeable on that subject. My guess is it is about money, but then that is true more often than not on almost everything.
I'm thinking the agents are there to keep the guys from thinking about the money chase. Just get out and do your physical BEST. Let the chips fall where they may. Players seem ignorant to stats...
A couple of good replies here but I’m not sure you are seeing things fully, at least from the 53 man roster perspective. You are correct about “coming” from the backups. But in this years case, and recently since the switch to a so called 3-4 defense (we’re not in a 3-4 in the traditional sense), Seattle hasn’t had depth at off ball LB. No depth there, and the unusual situation at tackle specifically RT, as required street players. Jerrell was the 4th RT to play/slated to play for the Hawks in 7 games. At LB, or like KC Chiefs an undefeated team, a position of need led to trades. KC needed a WR so Hopkins. Baker experiment is a failure and we had no depth. Titans and Browns are tanking now (bad QB and no QB) so trades happening. In years past you haven’t seen this in season much, other than PS and most of the was again due to depth. Need to field basically 2 sets of teams during the week and so like “camp arms” you make changes there a lot. Plus after a few weeks certain players do not pan out like the scouts thought they would.
During the preseason JS talked a bit about how his pool of players is not limited to the 53-man roster or the 16-man practice squad. The rules dictate these personnel restrictions, but at any given time JS and his team are keeping tabs on 150-200ish players around the league (or flipping square burgers at Wendy's).
I think it's rare, however, when a player is brought in from outside (not on active or practice squad rosters) and asked to start. This might happen in a parallel move, like Jones starting from the Titans and now starting for us. But I don't think we, or any team, has a need to frequently go outside their organization to get STARTING replacements.
This is all great news. We just got a great linebacker with Jones that plays the run well. We get our best potential lineman, when healthy, back and Macd isn’t done. He went and got guys who at least play sound ball in his scheme. We just need a few more of his guys added the next one or two offseason’s and we should be there or dang close
It's interesting; like Baker, I heard Jones' contract expires after '24.
Hawks gave up/invested a 4th. If Jones pans out, Hawks will have competition to re-sign or let him go for a '26 comp pick. It seems like JS/MM are partnering in aggressive risk taking to improve the team NOW, like they have common vision - a good thing.
I'm glad the team is making changes they see as necessary to put together a winning team. We all know that Macdonald's system didn't come together until they acquired Raquan Smith (?). I'm assuming he and John agree these changes will benefit the team, and I say welcome one and all.
McDonald continues to slowly rework this roster in his image. I feel like ILB is the straw that stirs the drink in his defensive scheme, and he’s still looking for his Patrick Queen. We’ll see if Jones is the guy. And I hope he’s looking forward to the Rams’ games.
I came to post basically your last sentence in opening paragraph. It’s been a very busy day for you. Your non-negotiables completed yet?
SJ I think maybe was rookie year some at LT(??) but Stone potentially resigned because there is need for at least 2 back up OT (left and right). Still have both. And I too said same about Stone. He didn’t give up sacks to 2 of the best rushers in the NFL. He’s a big fellow so maybe sticks around.
Churn the roster until it seems right to MM. I’m all on board.
When they made the trade for Robertson-Harris I was a bit worried JS thought the roster was closer to completion than it is (IMO), and I didn't like the idea of sending out draft picks mid season. After two more moves today, it feels like they are back to 2010/2011 and are they are being aggressive and moving players out who aren't going to be in their long term plans, and are giving new players some games this year to see if they fit.
I suppose this could accelerate refining the roster, rather than trying to fix everything in the offseason. You're getting through more options more quickly this way. The downside, we'll have fewer picks in the draft lottery, albeit with lower picks (day 3) with a lower likelihood of hitting on a difference maker. No perfect way to do this.
I like the aggression, and I like they are getting off of 'mistakes' quickly. But, I've always been a build through the draft kind of guy, so think patience is a key ingredient to that. There is such a lack of patience in the league now though (and even more so with fans) that maybe the 'build through the draft' days are over for the most part.
Building through the draft is always the primary goal, because when done successfully, it's the most cost effective way to build a championship roster. Those days will never be over. Even the best (luckiest) GMs at drafting, however, must make trade/FA moves at just the right time to compliment their good drafting. If you've had a good 2 or 3 years of drafting in a row, then those picks may just be reaching their potential and adding a few key vets to the mix can take them and the team to the next level. I hope that's what we're getting to this year and especially next season.
Starting to feel like 2010 'Hawks a lot more this week. Bit of breakout performance (although hard to know where the Falcons really sit). More openness on roster churn to find the right players. I see a lot of JS influence here, helping to guide MM. MM feeds to JS what he's looking for, JS going and finding that, allowing MM to worry about coaching and gameplan. It really feels like 2010 and way before PC became defacto GM himself in the later years.
We'll find out where the win over Falcons sits when Hawks play the Bills - a stern test!
You're onto something as far as good MM/JS dynamics doing a 2010-style tear-down & rebuild.
Chiming in late to add that I like this kind of nibbling improvement. We get, what, a 24-year-old linebacker who assuredly plays better than this year's fourth-round choice? And a guy the head coach knows already coming off an ankle injury that made him expendable. All that at a position of need. First time this season I've been on the same page with our GM, even though I know we're reading very different books.
Also...53-man-roster/practice squad. I think I commented on that earlier this season. I think the NFLPA is making a mistake...two mistakes. I think the league allows itself to pay too much for a handful of players (Deshaun Watson, anyone?), which isn't on the union, and the union should negotiate bigger squads because teams need more players. It's a 17-game season, for Pete's sake. I'd love to know if and how many practice squad players really develop into long-term NFL starters, or if everybody just uses that designation to fill out special teams. I'm not convinced the league does a good job developing talent; I don't know that there's even time for that.
I didn't know where else to post this, but in more somber news, Grayson McCall has retired from football after head injuries.
That's sad. I always like a striving underdog story. I wish Grayson well.
Didn’t he once say he wanted to play golf more than football?
From this morning’s Washington Post:
“North Carolina State quarterback Grayson McCall, sidelined after suffering a concussion this month on a jarring hit during a game against Wake Forest, announced Wednesday that he will no longer play football.
“McCall, a redshirt senior who was in his first season with the Wolfpack after achieving great success at Coastal Carolina, said he made his decision after consulting with experts on head injuries.
“Brain specialists, my family, and I have come to the conclusion that it is in my best interest to hang the cleats up,” he wrote on Instagram.”
With other Substack article comments, I often wish a down-thumb response was available. With Seaside Joe's articles, I wish there was a Like All the Comments response available. You guys are all great!
Thanks Charles! And I agree, all thumbs up here.