I mean, right now I'd rather be a Hawks fan. For all Kyler made the Cardinals better, he's not exactly lead them to a deep playoff run, and that contract will continue to be a hinderence even with a good draft.
But from a fantasy GM/Madden franchise mode viewpoint the Cards a dream team! Tons of draft stock, and will be getting offers to trade the #4. All the dream potential to build a monster team over two drafts, and add in Madden you could easily trade Kyler for a haul too, why would you not have some fun?
Conceding that talent evaluation is subjective and difficult and human beings are fragile and break unpredictably, is it also possible to conclude that JS is not good at this? I don't have the patience to go through 32 teams and grade the long-term results of the draft (nor would I know how). But looking through Seaside Joe's list of trade-down misses and first-round almost-rans it does raise questions. Also, was it not foreseeable that this year's draft would be deep and that the second round, particularly, would provide good options to rebuild a team like the Seahawks? I cannot evaluate Leonard Williams' next season, but it seems like we spent a second rounder we now need on a contract we may quickly come to regret, when a less expensive and potentially equivalent player might well have been available. Hindsight is 20/20, of course, and, as always, I don't know squat about this stuff.
Oh, if only the Seahawks had the Cardinals draft capital. Sigh.
It's impossible to answer the 'who's better' question this time of year. The Seahawks (and me) are certainly hoping the new coaching staff will be difference makers, but that is also an unanswerable question. For now all we have is hope, which I suppose is true every year at this time.
If this defense is going to improve appreciably this year, they'll need to coach out more from some players who should be better. Really good years from Woolen and Hall would drastically change things. What is Mo Morris exactly? Hardly even saw Cam Young. Oluwatimi seems to be entirely overlooked, but do they seem him as the starter at centre next year? Was what we saw from JSN just the warmup act? There are so many ways to get better without even talking about what the draft class might add, or what effect the new schemes may have.
I love this time of year. Nothing but unknown possibilities.
Geno was clearly the best or second best player on the team last year.
Even if you didn’t watch the games just look at the facts: 9 wins, bottom 3 defense, bottom 5 offensive line … you are saying that is the equation and the QB wasn’t your best player? And someone on a defense was? Possible but hard to believe.
I like the positive look at the cardinals and they did make strides however; the win against Pittsburgh was a weird one that took about 10 hours to play. Pitt also lost Pickett and put in Trubusky. Still, I give the Cards credit and clearly playing hard for Gannon.
Beat a Heinecke led Falcons at home.
Then Gannon’s Super Bowl against his former eagles team. We saw this a bunch with the Bellicheck tree. Those wins weren’t necessarily indicative.
Still, in a parity league like the NfL there is always pull to the middle. Every win is hard to come by and I would expect tough games versus the cards. And I think it is a good point to say that the cards got better over the course of the year while being out of the playoffs. Positive sign for coaching
But, the last stretch of the season saw the Hawks QB, Geno, catch fire even with a bad o line. The Hawks have potentially upgraded the defense. So if the offense stays the same then the Hawks are likely to be a bit better.
Finally win totals have been set for what it’s worth:
As they say, the proof is in the pudding so we will all have to wait and see when cleats hit turf. What would SSJ hot takes look like if we had 6 picks in the first 100? That would be something.
Then again, we would all be miserable for a few years to gain stock like that eventually.
I’m sorry but they’re the Cardinals. And despite the Cards allegedly playing better in the second half of the season, the Seahawks still went into AZ and beat them. Yeah a narrow win, but it’s my understanding that home field is good for about 7 points.
And did I mention they’re the Cardinals? They need to prove it.
For the hell of it, I did a Cards mock draft on PFN’s site. No trade-downs bc all the offers had 2025 picks included but if I were the GM I might have taken a few of those. But wanted to see how (theoretically) one-year leap the Cards could make with their 11 picks this year. Here’s their draft:
- WR Marvin Harrison Jr, best WR in the draft and prob better than anyone Seattle has
- S Cooper DeJean who’s this year’s Kyle Hamilton and who together with Bubba Baker gives AZ the best safety tandem in the division if not the entire league, once DeJean has a couple seasons under his belt
- OG Graham Barton, the #1 guard in this year’s draft
- DT T’Vondre Sweat who’s the closest thing to Vita Vea in this draft class
- TE Ben Sinnott the #2 TE in the class after Bowers but the #1 TE if you want to run the ball (helluva lead blocker for a Murray planned scramble)
- Edge Marshawn Kneeland who for me is undervalued bc of level of competition, shouldn’t have been sitting there at 90
- RB Blake Corum, arguably the best RB or at worst top 3 in this class
- C Beaux Limmer also too good to have been sitting there at 138, bc there is so much OL talent in this year’s draft. Prob a top 100 pick in a typical year
- LB Aaron Casey who gets frequently mocked to Seattle
- LB Tommy Eichenburger who I also wanted badly for Seattle bc he’s one of those fighter types like Witherspoon. Think he’s going to outplay his draft position
- TE Brevyn Spann-Ford a mountain of a TE, nearly like having a 6th OL, like a quicker George Fant. Murray and Corum behind he and Sinnott in 12 personnel will be very tough to defend. Someone I’ve picked in every mock draft when he’s been available
Guys that’s a STELLAR draft class IMHO. Only hope is that a few of these guys don’t play up to their draft status.
Since the Seahawks were worse than I thought they were and the Cardinals better, I’ll refrain from contributing any wisdom other than to observe that the previous year’s performance has limited predictive value, especially in the NFL.
Since Hawks ownership fired the coach of a 9-8 team—presumably with acquisence of the GM—they must believe that better coaching would have resulted in a better record. The basic issue to me is that they did not dominate at home: +11 scoring differential in 2022 and +12 last year. That has to be turned around no matter who the divisional opponents are.
Without a doubt, draft vs draft the Cards will become markedly better vs not only Seattle but the entire division. They have 6 picks in the top 100 vs 2 for Seattle, and weighted to Rds 1 and 2.
My only question is using 2023 Seattle vs Cards play/performance as a metric for where each team stands right now.
My firm belief is Schneider got Pete fired by pointing out to Jody Allen that Pete’s stubbornness and loyalty was burning up the rookie contracts of perhaps the finest back-to-back draft classes in Seattle history — and that a 3rd year of 8/9 or 9/8 was best case, but unacceptable given the aforementioned draft classes.
The same for the free agent signings. Have ANY of the free agents played better under Carroll than they did in their prior teams? Arguably, they either played the same or worse.
So, I’m in the camp that a) we have better pieces on defense — esp the DL and secondary — than we think, and b) that we are going to see a MARKED improvement due to coaching, both offensively (bc McDonald isn’t going to stifle Grubb as much as Pete did with his OC’s) and defensively (as McDonald has done everywhere he’s ever been.
What I’m arguing is that last year’s roster with this year’s coaching staff was an 11-5 team not a 9-8 team, and that Pete got fired bc he’s the reason for the 9-8 and wasn’t going to change
So the Cards might catch Seattle with this massive draft capital they have this year, but they’re starting with a significantly worse overall roster than Seattle’s, which we didn’t see bc of Pete and his coaches
I suspected that this would come up sometime before the draft. Right now , the Seahawks are the worst team in the division. It’s hard to project and higher with a potential of 80% of the OL new , a lack of a treehouse dominant player of defense. The best we have is a 185 lb cornerback and Williams that I view as more of a very good complimentary player than elite. We have all new LBs and safeties as well.
They could indeed be better than Arizona. I just don’t see it at this point with this roster as there are too many unknowns with a team up against the cap and limited draft picks.
I mean, right now I'd rather be a Hawks fan. For all Kyler made the Cardinals better, he's not exactly lead them to a deep playoff run, and that contract will continue to be a hinderence even with a good draft.
But from a fantasy GM/Madden franchise mode viewpoint the Cards a dream team! Tons of draft stock, and will be getting offers to trade the #4. All the dream potential to build a monster team over two drafts, and add in Madden you could easily trade Kyler for a haul too, why would you not have some fun?
Conceding that talent evaluation is subjective and difficult and human beings are fragile and break unpredictably, is it also possible to conclude that JS is not good at this? I don't have the patience to go through 32 teams and grade the long-term results of the draft (nor would I know how). But looking through Seaside Joe's list of trade-down misses and first-round almost-rans it does raise questions. Also, was it not foreseeable that this year's draft would be deep and that the second round, particularly, would provide good options to rebuild a team like the Seahawks? I cannot evaluate Leonard Williams' next season, but it seems like we spent a second rounder we now need on a contract we may quickly come to regret, when a less expensive and potentially equivalent player might well have been available. Hindsight is 20/20, of course, and, as always, I don't know squat about this stuff.
Oh, if only the Seahawks had the Cardinals draft capital. Sigh.
It's impossible to answer the 'who's better' question this time of year. The Seahawks (and me) are certainly hoping the new coaching staff will be difference makers, but that is also an unanswerable question. For now all we have is hope, which I suppose is true every year at this time.
If this defense is going to improve appreciably this year, they'll need to coach out more from some players who should be better. Really good years from Woolen and Hall would drastically change things. What is Mo Morris exactly? Hardly even saw Cam Young. Oluwatimi seems to be entirely overlooked, but do they seem him as the starter at centre next year? Was what we saw from JSN just the warmup act? There are so many ways to get better without even talking about what the draft class might add, or what effect the new schemes may have.
I love this time of year. Nothing but unknown possibilities.
Are we saying Top 5 players other than the QB?
Geno was clearly the best or second best player on the team last year.
Even if you didn’t watch the games just look at the facts: 9 wins, bottom 3 defense, bottom 5 offensive line … you are saying that is the equation and the QB wasn’t your best player? And someone on a defense was? Possible but hard to believe.
I like the positive look at the cardinals and they did make strides however; the win against Pittsburgh was a weird one that took about 10 hours to play. Pitt also lost Pickett and put in Trubusky. Still, I give the Cards credit and clearly playing hard for Gannon.
Beat a Heinecke led Falcons at home.
Then Gannon’s Super Bowl against his former eagles team. We saw this a bunch with the Bellicheck tree. Those wins weren’t necessarily indicative.
Still, in a parity league like the NfL there is always pull to the middle. Every win is hard to come by and I would expect tough games versus the cards. And I think it is a good point to say that the cards got better over the course of the year while being out of the playoffs. Positive sign for coaching
But, the last stretch of the season saw the Hawks QB, Geno, catch fire even with a bad o line. The Hawks have potentially upgraded the defense. So if the offense stays the same then the Hawks are likely to be a bit better.
Finally win totals have been set for what it’s worth:
Cards 6.5 wins
Seahawks 7.5 wins (down 1 from last year)
Cards will be better and a tough win.
As they say, the proof is in the pudding so we will all have to wait and see when cleats hit turf. What would SSJ hot takes look like if we had 6 picks in the first 100? That would be something.
Then again, we would all be miserable for a few years to gain stock like that eventually.
I hope we suck less than the Cards.
I’m sorry but they’re the Cardinals. And despite the Cards allegedly playing better in the second half of the season, the Seahawks still went into AZ and beat them. Yeah a narrow win, but it’s my understanding that home field is good for about 7 points.
And did I mention they’re the Cardinals? They need to prove it.
For the hell of it, I did a Cards mock draft on PFN’s site. No trade-downs bc all the offers had 2025 picks included but if I were the GM I might have taken a few of those. But wanted to see how (theoretically) one-year leap the Cards could make with their 11 picks this year. Here’s their draft:
- WR Marvin Harrison Jr, best WR in the draft and prob better than anyone Seattle has
- S Cooper DeJean who’s this year’s Kyle Hamilton and who together with Bubba Baker gives AZ the best safety tandem in the division if not the entire league, once DeJean has a couple seasons under his belt
- OG Graham Barton, the #1 guard in this year’s draft
- DT T’Vondre Sweat who’s the closest thing to Vita Vea in this draft class
- TE Ben Sinnott the #2 TE in the class after Bowers but the #1 TE if you want to run the ball (helluva lead blocker for a Murray planned scramble)
- Edge Marshawn Kneeland who for me is undervalued bc of level of competition, shouldn’t have been sitting there at 90
- RB Blake Corum, arguably the best RB or at worst top 3 in this class
- C Beaux Limmer also too good to have been sitting there at 138, bc there is so much OL talent in this year’s draft. Prob a top 100 pick in a typical year
- LB Aaron Casey who gets frequently mocked to Seattle
- LB Tommy Eichenburger who I also wanted badly for Seattle bc he’s one of those fighter types like Witherspoon. Think he’s going to outplay his draft position
- TE Brevyn Spann-Ford a mountain of a TE, nearly like having a 6th OL, like a quicker George Fant. Murray and Corum behind he and Sinnott in 12 personnel will be very tough to defend. Someone I’ve picked in every mock draft when he’s been available
Guys that’s a STELLAR draft class IMHO. Only hope is that a few of these guys don’t play up to their draft status.
Since the Seahawks were worse than I thought they were and the Cardinals better, I’ll refrain from contributing any wisdom other than to observe that the previous year’s performance has limited predictive value, especially in the NFL.
Since Hawks ownership fired the coach of a 9-8 team—presumably with acquisence of the GM—they must believe that better coaching would have resulted in a better record. The basic issue to me is that they did not dominate at home: +11 scoring differential in 2022 and +12 last year. That has to be turned around no matter who the divisional opponents are.
Without a doubt, draft vs draft the Cards will become markedly better vs not only Seattle but the entire division. They have 6 picks in the top 100 vs 2 for Seattle, and weighted to Rds 1 and 2.
My only question is using 2023 Seattle vs Cards play/performance as a metric for where each team stands right now.
My firm belief is Schneider got Pete fired by pointing out to Jody Allen that Pete’s stubbornness and loyalty was burning up the rookie contracts of perhaps the finest back-to-back draft classes in Seattle history — and that a 3rd year of 8/9 or 9/8 was best case, but unacceptable given the aforementioned draft classes.
The same for the free agent signings. Have ANY of the free agents played better under Carroll than they did in their prior teams? Arguably, they either played the same or worse.
So, I’m in the camp that a) we have better pieces on defense — esp the DL and secondary — than we think, and b) that we are going to see a MARKED improvement due to coaching, both offensively (bc McDonald isn’t going to stifle Grubb as much as Pete did with his OC’s) and defensively (as McDonald has done everywhere he’s ever been.
What I’m arguing is that last year’s roster with this year’s coaching staff was an 11-5 team not a 9-8 team, and that Pete got fired bc he’s the reason for the 9-8 and wasn’t going to change
So the Cards might catch Seattle with this massive draft capital they have this year, but they’re starting with a significantly worse overall roster than Seattle’s, which we didn’t see bc of Pete and his coaches
I suspected that this would come up sometime before the draft. Right now , the Seahawks are the worst team in the division. It’s hard to project and higher with a potential of 80% of the OL new , a lack of a treehouse dominant player of defense. The best we have is a 185 lb cornerback and Williams that I view as more of a very good complimentary player than elite. We have all new LBs and safeties as well.
They could indeed be better than Arizona. I just don’t see it at this point with this roster as there are too many unknowns with a team up against the cap and limited draft picks.