I was at the game which gives a different viewing experience than tv. The Hawks looked steadier than in earlier games. They had several long drives on offense with a decent mix of run and pass. The defense created several 3 and outs for a change. Time of possession slightly favored the Hawks which was also a nice change. They always seemed to be the controlling the game and yet they never broke it open.
The offense couldn’t quite get into the end zone as often as hoped, thank the gods for Meyers. And just when the defense seemed to have a stop Howell would unleash a big scramble play. It made me appreciate how other fans must have felt watching the prime Russ Hawks. I remember thinking Howell might be a QB worth a mid round pick in 22 for the Hawks and nothing he did changed my mind, he looked promising for Washington.
Overall I walked out slightly encouraged. Both offense and defense seemed to have a clear plan rather just reacting. And both had just enough success to pull out a win. However, to go far they’ll need to finish more drives with a TD on offense and a punt on defense. This game pretty well summed up the whole season- the Hawks are 6-3, tied for first in division and they just won an entertaining game, but I remain underwhelmed. I’m either spoiled by long term success creating higher expectations or a realist, not sure which.
Thanks for the thought provoking question Paul. 3 proven resumes...
Reed-Jones-Williams may be the answer for quality interior D line - the next 5 games will tell.
Hawks inside run D will be tested vs. SF. Answered without a doubt after the upcoming 5 game gauntlet! (I'd be happy 3-2, any teams).
NFL "quality" is my eyeballs, PC/JS roster moves, plays Hawks do/don't run, outcomes. What I saw:
Browns 1st team to try runs & screens up the middle. Inside run D failed. PC/JS got Williams to plug the leak. (Gripe: Disappointing to fix '22 problem w/in-season '23 rental for '24 draft pick)
The Browns exposed inside run D line as low quality or PC/JS wouldn't have made the move.
It's like Adams: "...oh, no pass rush? (again?) meet Jamal...aka instant pass rush..."
I assume PC/JS try to fix what they see as the biggest hole - priority problems get fixed at high cost.
How do we know if interior run D is "fixed"? Teams get stopped running inside & go elsewhere - that's why I think SF is a good test.
One of the cool things about the chat from the game on Sunday was some feedback on Sam Howell. I thought going into the game and up until the fumble that Sam Howell was not very good. Some Seasiders were quick to point out some positive aspects of his game, that the Washington fanbase is pretty excited, and that he actually is pretty good. I did a little digging into the numbers and they showed the same thing.
Obviously, not Seahawk related but that was a fun part of watching the game on the chat. Hope the guy continues to improve and do well.
I guess I’m just getting tired of people continuing to make excuses for Geno when he’s clearly struggling to play at the NFL level consistently. I don’t hate him, and I feel for him, but he’s treading water and looks like he’s about to go under (& take the team with him). I’d like to show him mercy and extract him before he drowns. Hopefully he learns to swim fast coz I’m certainly not in a position to save him. Though Joe’s article today gives me hope they can hold him up with scheming our way to get points in those 8 minutes he discusses.
My God, this morning all the articles are about Geno turning it around. Did they not notice all the times he was his same old self? Did they not notice we were playing the hapless Loos and just barely beat them at home? I think the "Geno resurrected" story is compelling so the media continues to hawk it, regardless of accuracy. I also think humans have a rough time holding complexity and nuance, so everything tends to get summed up in simplicities. Like, for instance, "Geno good" or "Geno bad".
I continue to predict a major reckoning up ahead. When we look back on this season, it will be clear that the team was mediocre. Neither horrid nor great. Somewhere in the middle. Geno too is somewhere in the middle. Hopefully that's not too complex for the media.
If our front office isn't totally brain dead, they will not proceed into year two of contract Geno but, rather, cut him or renegotiate. If they're not brain dead, they'll pick up a quarterback to develop in the draft and give Lock a real chance. We'll see. I thought they were getting it but, as you all well know by now, that trade blew up any hope I had for this front office. I have zero confidence that they're getting anything. I'm ready for a transition to something new.
But, as Kenneth rightly points out, we little fans have no control. We can only watch and wait and hope.
Geno is under contract next year for a reasonable price and Drew Lock isn't. Meaning to me that Geno will be here next year and Drew will move on to somewhere he has an actual chance to start. The Hawks draft a QB. If it's a first round pick he'll have to start and he won't be any better than #7, just different. If it's a third round or lower pick, we're stuck with Geno in '24 and we'll all be praying JS/PC picked properly and the new guy will be better in '25. And then there was RW in 2012, so what do I know?
If that's how Pete and John were to play it, I'd be beyond disappointed. You may be right. I don't trust them to do anything sensible. They'll likely run out the clock on the 2022 and 2023 rookie contracts with nothing to show for it because they'll stick with mediocre Geno on a too-expensive (for what he delivers) contract, and Seattle will barely make the playoffs again only to be blown out immediately. Lather, rinse, repeat until Pete finally retires. As far as I'm concerned, that day can't come soon enough.
We won as we should have. It's not a cakewalk though. We have a really young team. We have a second year DC. The OC is not a grizzled play caller either. The QB is not the greatest. Within a game he can fluctuate between maddening mediocrity to straight out clutch at the right time. Are we so frustrated that we don't have a team that performs at the level of the top 2-3 elite clubs? We have that potential. But, the elite teams are considered elite because they have the sheer talent level and experience to dominate lesser teams almost all the time. Obviously, we're not elite yet because we can just hang on to win against weak teams, and get blown out by a top team such as the Ravens. But, we aren't that far off. I think it's our youth. We have lots of sophomore and rookie players with some vets. The OC and DC coaches are still figuring out how to get it done. Parity is really a thing in the NFL. On any given Sunday every team has a shot to win. Because we are not quite at elite status, there are things we will need to achieve ultimate success this year. Making the playoffs will be another big accomplishment. I think because of Pete's success record, we take it for granted. But teams that haven't had that success understand that it isn't easy to get there. The things that need to happen if and when we make the playoffs will be all about timing. Actually, any team that makes the playoffs need the convergence of these things at the right time: peak performance, a mini winning streak, and good luck. I am not so concerned about getting blown out at this time of the season. It sucks, but it's also not the end of the world. You can't be so attached to a bad loss any more than you can be attached to blowing out another team. A midseason game is just that. One game. Let other teams be champions in October or November. But come playoff time, that's when it all boils down to. Like the wild card Giants SB teams years ago, the right timing can be everything. You remember how good the Mariners were in August? Then in September and into the last couple weeks, they just couldn't get it done and missed another year at the playoffs. They were at peak performance during August. They won the most games of any Mariners team in that one month. But, they faded at the wrong time. If they were playing at their August level at the start of the playoffs, would they be in the World Series let alone wining it? If the Seahawks make the playoffs again this year, we have a shot as good as any team. We need to be at a peak performance level, we need to have a winning streak all the way to the end, and of course good fortune because luck is a factor. We may not be an elite team yet, but I take heart that we are in the midst of building an elite one right now. Wasn't last year and this year supposed to be a total rebuild with all the losing that goes with that? Even so called elite teams can flounder at the wrong time. It just takes one bad game at the wrong time because it's one and done. I'm just enjoying every win no matter what. Instead of grinding the teeth at what should be better, I just appreciate what we got. It's much more relaxing than taxing.
You all are right about the defense on the opening drive. It’s not a new experience. They seem unorganized and unsure. And to let the Moons do that to them is frankly embarrassing. In my disappointment after the game I forgot how badly it started.
Good grief. Geno cannot win with many people without near perfection. It is what it is I guess. People are going to see what they want to see. Career best in yards, two TD’s, no picks, and still he’s not good enough. This play proves this, and this play proves that……whatever man. Pick your nits.
The offense generally and Gino specifically were not the reason this game was close. If you can’t see that, I’m not sure what to tell you. If you put up 29 pts, that’s plenty good enough for a good team to win, especially if you win the turnover battle. But sure, have at Geno. This team has bigger areas of concern for me. QB isn’t even in the top 5. To each his own I suppose.
Several comments here along the lines of "the D was pretty good except for a few plays" and "the O was just a few plays away from a comfortable win." But I will argue (without evidence) that that's true in the large majority of NFL games. That handful of plays each way are what make the parity-era NFL an "any given Sunday" league. The teams that *consistently* make those plays earn the top seeds in each conference. The rare teams that do it year after year become perennial Super Bowl contenders.
Despite flashing a lot of individual talent, our '23 Hawks haven't shown the consistent playmaking ability as a team to join the ranks of top contenders, and it's getting very late in the season to start doing so. It's like my golf game (which I'm glad I was playing instead of taking days/weeks/years off my life by watching this game live): I *can* hit my driver, long irons, wedges, and putter well, but don't consistently do so all on the same hole...so pars remain tantalizingly close but ultimately rare.
It's *possible* the '23 team will still break through to that higher level of consistency, but I think what's *probable* is that for the rest of this season, this team brings highs and lows as a package deal.
So Kenneth - as he *consistently* does - hits the nail on the head: recognize the ride for what it is and enjoy it for however long it lasts!
Being fans of a team that always plays to level of it's opponents is often tough. Rarely do we get blown out (Ravens was definitely an outlier), but equally we never stamp our authority either.
Geno being Geno. Flashing the kind of talent that made him a potential 1st Rd pick, and actual 2nd Rd one, and had him in MVP conversation for a period last year. Then also flashing the kind of talent that had him benched in yr2 and becoming a career back-up. We will always get both. It can get us to 9-8 and the playoffs, but it'll never elevate the team. Repeat previous discussion points.
I liked Waldrons game plan! Ugh that feels weird to say... I thought the schemeing was smart and effective. The actual play calling was much improved, mixing in Runs, Options more than we've seen lately. And crucially I could actually see the Offence trying to adapt through the 2nd & 3rd Qtrs and working around the Defence offered by the Moons. It just leaves me asking where this version of Waldron has been for the last 6 or so weeks?!
Moons did their planning and found a flaw to exploit, and they exploited it to perfection. That screen/cross/sweep thing hit time after time. Positives, it was only that which ever threatened a D that was well ontop. Negatives, we didn't seem to adjust to it. Result, I hope Hurtt can get a handle on it, because it's the kind of play the 49ers, Cowboys & Eagles will love given their players.
In other areas - I really like Sanchez as a commentator, he is very fun and aware of what's actually going on. 49ers handled the Jags, oh no they are back after a wobble so we are going to be in for a tough games there. I do feel pretty ok that 9-8 will get you a NFC wildcard spot, and actually even 8-9 could well happen. I feel sorry for the fans in Germany who had to see that Colts-Pats game as probably their first NFL experience, that game was awful!
Great words to live by Ken! - "Enjoy the 2023 ride..." and the rebuild chips PC/JS hit on.
2023 Hawks aren't that good. They're still rebuilding & missing a lot more than "THE" (presumably magic) QB. They lack: 1. NFL quality interior O and D lines 2. LB depth 3. Unable to coordinate mismatches/routes w/allegedly talented receiving corps. I didn't re-watch yet, from what I recall:
The 1 or 2 run attempts up the middle didn't work. The rest of "up the middle runs" were misdirection O line stacks to draw D line inside to make it look like a run up the middle, then RB bounced between G-T or off tackle. Hawks can't run up the middle because their interior line can't block it. If D's don't respect inside run, they overplay edge runs & passes. This is Hawk O's fatal flaw. I don't look forward to upcoming 5 straight months of draft/FA talk, but an ass-kicking center will help 2024 QB "magic".
BWags coverage is more than a talking point. Commander plays isolated him in coverage. Better teams will do a better job of this. He should be rotational but Hawks lack LB depth.
W/o Nwosu, & w/Hawk usual fair-to-poor pass rush, BWags will do his best. Our mileage may vary - enjoy the ride! The interior D line is so bad, PC/JS traded a 2nd for rent-a-Williams. An emergency move to keep LA, SF, Dal, PHI from going bananas vs. D. (They signed another DL to PS last week.)
Geno gave away a FG and potentially the game. But unless SF takes a dive, Hawk ceiling is '22 repeat. There will be a 2024 QB competition, I'm ok waiting for '24. Don't mess w/Drew's post-Bronco rehab! He's got a gun, height, athleticism, 2 years in the system. If he uses it, he'll get the job.
On-point analysis that does raise a question: Why is a Reed-Jones-Williams interior DL not NFL quality? An awful lot of teams would take those three in a nanosecond.
Like the break-down Mike. It’ll be interesting to see if the upcoming match-ups use the ‘flaws’ that you see. Hopefully they’re not as bad as you make it sound, but you sound convincing to me.
1. To me it didn't feel close at all, even though it was decided by a field goal. Most of their points came as a direct result of 3 plays to Brian Robinson: the first TD, the field goal right after the half, and their second-to-last TD drive where he took another short pass down the sideline for a big gain. The 2 massive YAC plays were broken plays, where the defense just lost sight of Brian Robinson, and the other one was a poor angle by bobby wagner if I remember correctly. Without those 3 plays the game isn't close.
2. Jason Myers is having a pretty good season for an even year number. Perfect 5/5 on field goals today.
3. If they can clean up their penalties, they will be a much better offense. Obviously Geno's intentional grounding is in the front of everyone's minds, but also let's not forget the delay of game that probably cost 4 points on the first seahawks possession, and the false start in the redzone on 4th&1 that probably took away 4 points.
4. I don't care what people say, it felt like Geno had an actually decent day. He was off by a few throws, but also JSN had some more drop(s?), Metcalf didn't contest the ball on a pass breakup that he should've caught, even Charbonnet dropped/miscommunicated on a pass or two. I don't recall any awful throws that should've been intercepted off the top of my head, which is a good thing. Not saying that Geno is necessarily the answer for the future, but today was one of his better games in a while.
5. K9 is SPECIAL. I don't check the next gen stats but felt like lots of yards after contact, and the HUGE catch-and-run for the TD.
6. Witherspoon, as always, was the best player on the D. Always love seeing his fire and watching him trash talk after every notable play.
7. A win is a win. Onto the Rams next week, go hawks!
Same with me on the Fant play. Geno has had The Fight coached out of him. Quarterbacks carry a Presence in the huddle, radiating both good and bad attitudes. A will to overcome or a desire to get this shit over with. Fant wasn't sure what was happening and turned early to look, causing him to miss getting to his mark, which Geno no doubt hit.
If anyone was at the Game, tell us what the 12's reactions were?
The way I saw it was that Fant was heading straight into coverage if he continued on his trajectory. He (correctly) adjusted so as to stay open. Geno did his robot self and didn’t adjust. He has a problem with going off script as is obvious each week with his regular forced passes and teams now regularly reading him and getting more hands on passes.
Mark Sanchez "Geno is expecting him in that honey hole towards the sideline in Cover 2, in between the corner and the safety."
He clearly cutoff the corner route. I get that he thought it was covered but it was not. He made the wrong read. I think he thought 26 was going to fall back but he kept running with the clear-out route (Bobo). And you can clearly see that it wasn't covered since the ball actually hits the turf right where Fant would've been if he didn't stop running.
Pete commented on plays like this in the post-game presser in a general way. The reporter even asked point blank "Are you referring to Fant?" - Pete declined to comment.
Not sure what convo you are referring to but it seems pretty clear what happened.
I still stand by what I said. Geno was unable to adapt to a change that occurred, no matter how you view it. Something went awry, he didn’t adapt. I understand it’s not easy for any QB to make those decisions in the little time these things happen, but my observation, and my point, is that Geno appears to have a struggle with going off-scheme when it’s required. He’s a bit too robotic and struggles to improvise.
"We didn’t fire just right on a couple of the third down opportunities. He took some tough throws and there was a couple of balls—you know, he throws, to the fans it looks like ‘Oh, what a terrible throw!’ And the receiver kinda pulled out and tried to adjust what he was seeing in coverage, so it looks like, you know, like the throws bad. We have to work together. That’s what I’m talking about, everybody’s gotta help. It’s not just a one man show. and sometimes guys make some decisions that don’t work, and don’t work for the QB you know? And you know, you look at him like he can’t throw the ball to anybody. So it’s just a matter of just getting better and staying with it." <- Pete Carroll
Greg Bell is the one that asked specifically about the Fant play.
"Next!" <- Pete's response
Haha ... pretty funny. Not as funny if we would have lost.
The good news is we won. We beat a sub 500 team. The bad news is the rest of the schedule. I can see at least 4 loses leaving us at 6 and 7 with only 4 games left and Geno at QB. and Waldron calling plays.
This does not give me a warm and fuzzy feelings about the playoffs.
A few thoughts. It makes no difference since Pete Carroll doesn't care about my observations but, for whatever it's worth, Drew Lock had great chemistry with DK in the preseason. Then as soon as Geno entered that last preseason game, that chemistry disappeared.
On paper the Seahawks offensive stats looked good today. To my eyes, the whole offensive performance looked uneven at best and, frankly, offensive to anyone who cares about this team. I'm factoring in the defense they were up against when I say that. I just don't see this team having success against the 49ers, Eagles, Cowboys or other teams of that caliber. Yes, they can beat the Loos in a hard fought game at home. That's not a surprise.
I agree that the defense is looking promising with Witherspoon and Mafe coming on strong. Witherspoon looks like he could be a superstar before long. Mafe looks like he could be a key contributor and possible All Pro. Williams flashed his skills but he did not and cannot, in my book, overcome the burden of his price tag which was highway robbery. It made sense for the 49ers to acquire Chase Young for a third rounder because they have all the pieces to, with a bit of luck, win now. Plus, they paid way less than we did. We gave away our second most valuable piece of draft stock in the off season plus a fifth the following year. We're not the 49ers. We're going to need to keep adding pieces. Totally idiotic move (in case anyone was wondering my opinion -- ha!).
I agree with your assessment, Kenneth, that we drive ourselves crazy worrying about that which we cannot control. That said, I have no control over my frustration when the team makes mistakes I'm sure they'll live to regret. Other than to disengage and not give a damn. I could do that. I'm not doing that but I have pulled back adequately to not care much. Enjoyed shooting the breeze in the comments today during the live stream. I can't do that during Husky games because I'm hanging on every play. It's easier with the Seahawks because I have way less invested.
"I can't do that during Husky games because I'm hanging on every play. It's easier with the Seahawks because I have way less invested. "
That's me too Parallax. Years of the Seahawks barely winning or barely losing, and beating teams they should lose to and losing to teams they should beat...well that has finally numbed me somewhat. That long-standing trend bodes well for the upcoming schedule tho! Enjoy the ride as Kenneth said.
Meanwhile the Huskies keep winning, but too close for comfort and still more extremely tough games ahead.
I love football...but sometimes I'm not sure why lol.
I'd like your post more than once if I could, brother. I remember with fondness the 1991 Huskies, as that was the year they were truly dominant. The defense was incredible. I remember one game against UCLA where we knocked out their starting QB and their backup. Then the UCLA offensive coordinator approached our defensive coordinator with an offer. "Stop blitzing and we won't try to throw deep", which was UCLA's thing that season. Our coordinator's response, as he later reported it, was "How many quarterback's you got?" We blew their wheels off.
The only downer was the split polling. But we Husky fans were sure that we'd come out on top in a real game on the field. That was a season when there wasn't much stress anytime the team hit the gridiron.
Unfortunately, the very next season, the wins were more challenging and then the whole thing fell apart. Heck, we lost to Arizona and then to WSU that year. Major bummer.
But in retrospect, it was like the Buddhists say, our expectations that were the challenge. Without expectations one cannot be disappointed. A lesson I've still not really learned, given how hard it can be to watch the Huskies play.
Now, truth be told, a lot of this is because I have a 9-year-old son. I can handle my disappointment when my team loses. It's harder to contain his. I know it's a life lesson he's got to learn. Ideally, I'd like him to learn it next year. I've told him that if his team ever goes all the way, he should consider it a once-in-a-lifetime experience. I don't think he's taken it in fully. It's probably the kind of lesson one has to learn the hard way. And the good news is his mother is really good at holding him when he's upset. I would too, but he'll run to her at those moments. He watches the games with me and turns to her when they don't end well. Dad energy; mom energy.
Agree with the offensive comments. Again, believe your eyes! Though I admit it was probably one of Geno’s better performances (though that’s not saying much). And just to really annoy you....
That's one thing I didn't get - heard it when it happened & mentioned today: SF gets more accomplished guy than WIlliams for lesser price? Or did SF absorb his salary that Hawks supposedly "avoid" but really pay 2 & 5. Don't have enough time to understand caps BUT in light of pieces still needed don't pay a 2...
We couldn't fit Williams under our cap so the Giants absorbed almost all of it. This raised the price tag. I'm not sure how much salary SF took on with Chase Young, but I figured his injury history was part of the asking price being low for a young player of his caliber.
I was at the game which gives a different viewing experience than tv. The Hawks looked steadier than in earlier games. They had several long drives on offense with a decent mix of run and pass. The defense created several 3 and outs for a change. Time of possession slightly favored the Hawks which was also a nice change. They always seemed to be the controlling the game and yet they never broke it open.
The offense couldn’t quite get into the end zone as often as hoped, thank the gods for Meyers. And just when the defense seemed to have a stop Howell would unleash a big scramble play. It made me appreciate how other fans must have felt watching the prime Russ Hawks. I remember thinking Howell might be a QB worth a mid round pick in 22 for the Hawks and nothing he did changed my mind, he looked promising for Washington.
Overall I walked out slightly encouraged. Both offense and defense seemed to have a clear plan rather just reacting. And both had just enough success to pull out a win. However, to go far they’ll need to finish more drives with a TD on offense and a punt on defense. This game pretty well summed up the whole season- the Hawks are 6-3, tied for first in division and they just won an entertaining game, but I remain underwhelmed. I’m either spoiled by long term success creating higher expectations or a realist, not sure which.
Thanks for the thought provoking question Paul. 3 proven resumes...
Reed-Jones-Williams may be the answer for quality interior D line - the next 5 games will tell.
Hawks inside run D will be tested vs. SF. Answered without a doubt after the upcoming 5 game gauntlet! (I'd be happy 3-2, any teams).
NFL "quality" is my eyeballs, PC/JS roster moves, plays Hawks do/don't run, outcomes. What I saw:
Browns 1st team to try runs & screens up the middle. Inside run D failed. PC/JS got Williams to plug the leak. (Gripe: Disappointing to fix '22 problem w/in-season '23 rental for '24 draft pick)
The Browns exposed inside run D line as low quality or PC/JS wouldn't have made the move.
It's like Adams: "...oh, no pass rush? (again?) meet Jamal...aka instant pass rush..."
I assume PC/JS try to fix what they see as the biggest hole - priority problems get fixed at high cost.
How do we know if interior run D is "fixed"? Teams get stopped running inside & go elsewhere - that's why I think SF is a good test.
One of the cool things about the chat from the game on Sunday was some feedback on Sam Howell. I thought going into the game and up until the fumble that Sam Howell was not very good. Some Seasiders were quick to point out some positive aspects of his game, that the Washington fanbase is pretty excited, and that he actually is pretty good. I did a little digging into the numbers and they showed the same thing.
Obviously, not Seahawk related but that was a fun part of watching the game on the chat. Hope the guy continues to improve and do well.
Reading this article in the Athletic reminded me about that: https://theathletic.com/5058197/2023/11/13/sam-howell-commanders-seahawks/?source=emp-shared-article
I guess I’m just getting tired of people continuing to make excuses for Geno when he’s clearly struggling to play at the NFL level consistently. I don’t hate him, and I feel for him, but he’s treading water and looks like he’s about to go under (& take the team with him). I’d like to show him mercy and extract him before he drowns. Hopefully he learns to swim fast coz I’m certainly not in a position to save him. Though Joe’s article today gives me hope they can hold him up with scheming our way to get points in those 8 minutes he discusses.
My God, this morning all the articles are about Geno turning it around. Did they not notice all the times he was his same old self? Did they not notice we were playing the hapless Loos and just barely beat them at home? I think the "Geno resurrected" story is compelling so the media continues to hawk it, regardless of accuracy. I also think humans have a rough time holding complexity and nuance, so everything tends to get summed up in simplicities. Like, for instance, "Geno good" or "Geno bad".
I continue to predict a major reckoning up ahead. When we look back on this season, it will be clear that the team was mediocre. Neither horrid nor great. Somewhere in the middle. Geno too is somewhere in the middle. Hopefully that's not too complex for the media.
If our front office isn't totally brain dead, they will not proceed into year two of contract Geno but, rather, cut him or renegotiate. If they're not brain dead, they'll pick up a quarterback to develop in the draft and give Lock a real chance. We'll see. I thought they were getting it but, as you all well know by now, that trade blew up any hope I had for this front office. I have zero confidence that they're getting anything. I'm ready for a transition to something new.
But, as Kenneth rightly points out, we little fans have no control. We can only watch and wait and hope.
My un-thought out thoughts:
Geno is under contract next year for a reasonable price and Drew Lock isn't. Meaning to me that Geno will be here next year and Drew will move on to somewhere he has an actual chance to start. The Hawks draft a QB. If it's a first round pick he'll have to start and he won't be any better than #7, just different. If it's a third round or lower pick, we're stuck with Geno in '24 and we'll all be praying JS/PC picked properly and the new guy will be better in '25. And then there was RW in 2012, so what do I know?
If that's how Pete and John were to play it, I'd be beyond disappointed. You may be right. I don't trust them to do anything sensible. They'll likely run out the clock on the 2022 and 2023 rookie contracts with nothing to show for it because they'll stick with mediocre Geno on a too-expensive (for what he delivers) contract, and Seattle will barely make the playoffs again only to be blown out immediately. Lather, rinse, repeat until Pete finally retires. As far as I'm concerned, that day can't come soon enough.
I love the title of this article Joe! "What Seahawks fans are arguing about...". That sums it up, and we are arguing after a win! Love it...
We won as we should have. It's not a cakewalk though. We have a really young team. We have a second year DC. The OC is not a grizzled play caller either. The QB is not the greatest. Within a game he can fluctuate between maddening mediocrity to straight out clutch at the right time. Are we so frustrated that we don't have a team that performs at the level of the top 2-3 elite clubs? We have that potential. But, the elite teams are considered elite because they have the sheer talent level and experience to dominate lesser teams almost all the time. Obviously, we're not elite yet because we can just hang on to win against weak teams, and get blown out by a top team such as the Ravens. But, we aren't that far off. I think it's our youth. We have lots of sophomore and rookie players with some vets. The OC and DC coaches are still figuring out how to get it done. Parity is really a thing in the NFL. On any given Sunday every team has a shot to win. Because we are not quite at elite status, there are things we will need to achieve ultimate success this year. Making the playoffs will be another big accomplishment. I think because of Pete's success record, we take it for granted. But teams that haven't had that success understand that it isn't easy to get there. The things that need to happen if and when we make the playoffs will be all about timing. Actually, any team that makes the playoffs need the convergence of these things at the right time: peak performance, a mini winning streak, and good luck. I am not so concerned about getting blown out at this time of the season. It sucks, but it's also not the end of the world. You can't be so attached to a bad loss any more than you can be attached to blowing out another team. A midseason game is just that. One game. Let other teams be champions in October or November. But come playoff time, that's when it all boils down to. Like the wild card Giants SB teams years ago, the right timing can be everything. You remember how good the Mariners were in August? Then in September and into the last couple weeks, they just couldn't get it done and missed another year at the playoffs. They were at peak performance during August. They won the most games of any Mariners team in that one month. But, they faded at the wrong time. If they were playing at their August level at the start of the playoffs, would they be in the World Series let alone wining it? If the Seahawks make the playoffs again this year, we have a shot as good as any team. We need to be at a peak performance level, we need to have a winning streak all the way to the end, and of course good fortune because luck is a factor. We may not be an elite team yet, but I take heart that we are in the midst of building an elite one right now. Wasn't last year and this year supposed to be a total rebuild with all the losing that goes with that? Even so called elite teams can flounder at the wrong time. It just takes one bad game at the wrong time because it's one and done. I'm just enjoying every win no matter what. Instead of grinding the teeth at what should be better, I just appreciate what we got. It's much more relaxing than taxing.
Breaking all that up into a few paragraphs would make it easier to read. Your great ideas deserve better.
Thanks. I was considering making paragraphs but i just posted will quick.
Hear hear....or is it Here here? Regardless, I agree Dutcher. Good points top to bottom. Me thinks we might be a bit spoiled...
You all are right about the defense on the opening drive. It’s not a new experience. They seem unorganized and unsure. And to let the Moons do that to them is frankly embarrassing. In my disappointment after the game I forgot how badly it started.
Good grief. Geno cannot win with many people without near perfection. It is what it is I guess. People are going to see what they want to see. Career best in yards, two TD’s, no picks, and still he’s not good enough. This play proves this, and this play proves that……whatever man. Pick your nits.
The offense generally and Gino specifically were not the reason this game was close. If you can’t see that, I’m not sure what to tell you. If you put up 29 pts, that’s plenty good enough for a good team to win, especially if you win the turnover battle. But sure, have at Geno. This team has bigger areas of concern for me. QB isn’t even in the top 5. To each his own I suppose.
Several comments here along the lines of "the D was pretty good except for a few plays" and "the O was just a few plays away from a comfortable win." But I will argue (without evidence) that that's true in the large majority of NFL games. That handful of plays each way are what make the parity-era NFL an "any given Sunday" league. The teams that *consistently* make those plays earn the top seeds in each conference. The rare teams that do it year after year become perennial Super Bowl contenders.
Despite flashing a lot of individual talent, our '23 Hawks haven't shown the consistent playmaking ability as a team to join the ranks of top contenders, and it's getting very late in the season to start doing so. It's like my golf game (which I'm glad I was playing instead of taking days/weeks/years off my life by watching this game live): I *can* hit my driver, long irons, wedges, and putter well, but don't consistently do so all on the same hole...so pars remain tantalizingly close but ultimately rare.
It's *possible* the '23 team will still break through to that higher level of consistency, but I think what's *probable* is that for the rest of this season, this team brings highs and lows as a package deal.
So Kenneth - as he *consistently* does - hits the nail on the head: recognize the ride for what it is and enjoy it for however long it lasts!
Being fans of a team that always plays to level of it's opponents is often tough. Rarely do we get blown out (Ravens was definitely an outlier), but equally we never stamp our authority either.
Geno being Geno. Flashing the kind of talent that made him a potential 1st Rd pick, and actual 2nd Rd one, and had him in MVP conversation for a period last year. Then also flashing the kind of talent that had him benched in yr2 and becoming a career back-up. We will always get both. It can get us to 9-8 and the playoffs, but it'll never elevate the team. Repeat previous discussion points.
I liked Waldrons game plan! Ugh that feels weird to say... I thought the schemeing was smart and effective. The actual play calling was much improved, mixing in Runs, Options more than we've seen lately. And crucially I could actually see the Offence trying to adapt through the 2nd & 3rd Qtrs and working around the Defence offered by the Moons. It just leaves me asking where this version of Waldron has been for the last 6 or so weeks?!
Moons did their planning and found a flaw to exploit, and they exploited it to perfection. That screen/cross/sweep thing hit time after time. Positives, it was only that which ever threatened a D that was well ontop. Negatives, we didn't seem to adjust to it. Result, I hope Hurtt can get a handle on it, because it's the kind of play the 49ers, Cowboys & Eagles will love given their players.
In other areas - I really like Sanchez as a commentator, he is very fun and aware of what's actually going on. 49ers handled the Jags, oh no they are back after a wobble so we are going to be in for a tough games there. I do feel pretty ok that 9-8 will get you a NFC wildcard spot, and actually even 8-9 could well happen. I feel sorry for the fans in Germany who had to see that Colts-Pats game as probably their first NFL experience, that game was awful!
“Result, I hope Hurtt can get a handle on it…”
The question is can Bobby Wagner get a handle on it because that’s who these plays were exploiting.
Great words to live by Ken! - "Enjoy the 2023 ride..." and the rebuild chips PC/JS hit on.
2023 Hawks aren't that good. They're still rebuilding & missing a lot more than "THE" (presumably magic) QB. They lack: 1. NFL quality interior O and D lines 2. LB depth 3. Unable to coordinate mismatches/routes w/allegedly talented receiving corps. I didn't re-watch yet, from what I recall:
The 1 or 2 run attempts up the middle didn't work. The rest of "up the middle runs" were misdirection O line stacks to draw D line inside to make it look like a run up the middle, then RB bounced between G-T or off tackle. Hawks can't run up the middle because their interior line can't block it. If D's don't respect inside run, they overplay edge runs & passes. This is Hawk O's fatal flaw. I don't look forward to upcoming 5 straight months of draft/FA talk, but an ass-kicking center will help 2024 QB "magic".
BWags coverage is more than a talking point. Commander plays isolated him in coverage. Better teams will do a better job of this. He should be rotational but Hawks lack LB depth.
W/o Nwosu, & w/Hawk usual fair-to-poor pass rush, BWags will do his best. Our mileage may vary - enjoy the ride! The interior D line is so bad, PC/JS traded a 2nd for rent-a-Williams. An emergency move to keep LA, SF, Dal, PHI from going bananas vs. D. (They signed another DL to PS last week.)
Geno gave away a FG and potentially the game. But unless SF takes a dive, Hawk ceiling is '22 repeat. There will be a 2024 QB competition, I'm ok waiting for '24. Don't mess w/Drew's post-Bronco rehab! He's got a gun, height, athleticism, 2 years in the system. If he uses it, he'll get the job.
Enjoy the ride! ;-)
On-point analysis that does raise a question: Why is a Reed-Jones-Williams interior DL not NFL quality? An awful lot of teams would take those three in a nanosecond.
Like the break-down Mike. It’ll be interesting to see if the upcoming match-ups use the ‘flaws’ that you see. Hopefully they’re not as bad as you make it sound, but you sound convincing to me.
One stat I liked from today. Four drives of ten or more plays.
My takeaways from the game:
1. To me it didn't feel close at all, even though it was decided by a field goal. Most of their points came as a direct result of 3 plays to Brian Robinson: the first TD, the field goal right after the half, and their second-to-last TD drive where he took another short pass down the sideline for a big gain. The 2 massive YAC plays were broken plays, where the defense just lost sight of Brian Robinson, and the other one was a poor angle by bobby wagner if I remember correctly. Without those 3 plays the game isn't close.
2. Jason Myers is having a pretty good season for an even year number. Perfect 5/5 on field goals today.
3. If they can clean up their penalties, they will be a much better offense. Obviously Geno's intentional grounding is in the front of everyone's minds, but also let's not forget the delay of game that probably cost 4 points on the first seahawks possession, and the false start in the redzone on 4th&1 that probably took away 4 points.
4. I don't care what people say, it felt like Geno had an actually decent day. He was off by a few throws, but also JSN had some more drop(s?), Metcalf didn't contest the ball on a pass breakup that he should've caught, even Charbonnet dropped/miscommunicated on a pass or two. I don't recall any awful throws that should've been intercepted off the top of my head, which is a good thing. Not saying that Geno is necessarily the answer for the future, but today was one of his better games in a while.
5. K9 is SPECIAL. I don't check the next gen stats but felt like lots of yards after contact, and the HUGE catch-and-run for the TD.
6. Witherspoon, as always, was the best player on the D. Always love seeing his fire and watching him trash talk after every notable play.
7. A win is a win. Onto the Rams next week, go hawks!
Another good break-down. We’ll said Jeremy.
Well said ... you can add Fant inexplicably stopping his route as another missed opportunity that didn’t help out Geno.
Same with me on the Fant play. Geno has had The Fight coached out of him. Quarterbacks carry a Presence in the huddle, radiating both good and bad attitudes. A will to overcome or a desire to get this shit over with. Fant wasn't sure what was happening and turned early to look, causing him to miss getting to his mark, which Geno no doubt hit.
If anyone was at the Game, tell us what the 12's reactions were?
The way I saw it was that Fant was heading straight into coverage if he continued on his trajectory. He (correctly) adjusted so as to stay open. Geno did his robot self and didn’t adjust. He has a problem with going off script as is obvious each week with his regular forced passes and teams now regularly reading him and getting more hands on passes.
C’mon Mike, we’ve had this conversation 😁.
Well ... Do you believe Mark Sanchez?
Mark Sanchez "Geno is expecting him in that honey hole towards the sideline in Cover 2, in between the corner and the safety."
He clearly cutoff the corner route. I get that he thought it was covered but it was not. He made the wrong read. I think he thought 26 was going to fall back but he kept running with the clear-out route (Bobo). And you can clearly see that it wasn't covered since the ball actually hits the turf right where Fant would've been if he didn't stop running.
Pete commented on plays like this in the post-game presser in a general way. The reporter even asked point blank "Are you referring to Fant?" - Pete declined to comment.
Not sure what convo you are referring to but it seems pretty clear what happened.
I still stand by what I said. Geno was unable to adapt to a change that occurred, no matter how you view it. Something went awry, he didn’t adapt. I understand it’s not easy for any QB to make those decisions in the little time these things happen, but my observation, and my point, is that Geno appears to have a struggle with going off-scheme when it’s required. He’s a bit too robotic and struggles to improvise.
"We didn’t fire just right on a couple of the third down opportunities. He took some tough throws and there was a couple of balls—you know, he throws, to the fans it looks like ‘Oh, what a terrible throw!’ And the receiver kinda pulled out and tried to adjust what he was seeing in coverage, so it looks like, you know, like the throws bad. We have to work together. That’s what I’m talking about, everybody’s gotta help. It’s not just a one man show. and sometimes guys make some decisions that don’t work, and don’t work for the QB you know? And you know, you look at him like he can’t throw the ball to anybody. So it’s just a matter of just getting better and staying with it." <- Pete Carroll
Greg Bell is the one that asked specifically about the Fant play.
"Next!" <- Pete's response
Haha ... pretty funny. Not as funny if we would have lost.
The good news is we won. We beat a sub 500 team. The bad news is the rest of the schedule. I can see at least 4 loses leaving us at 6 and 7 with only 4 games left and Geno at QB. and Waldron calling plays.
This does not give me a warm and fuzzy feelings about the playoffs.
A few thoughts. It makes no difference since Pete Carroll doesn't care about my observations but, for whatever it's worth, Drew Lock had great chemistry with DK in the preseason. Then as soon as Geno entered that last preseason game, that chemistry disappeared.
On paper the Seahawks offensive stats looked good today. To my eyes, the whole offensive performance looked uneven at best and, frankly, offensive to anyone who cares about this team. I'm factoring in the defense they were up against when I say that. I just don't see this team having success against the 49ers, Eagles, Cowboys or other teams of that caliber. Yes, they can beat the Loos in a hard fought game at home. That's not a surprise.
I agree that the defense is looking promising with Witherspoon and Mafe coming on strong. Witherspoon looks like he could be a superstar before long. Mafe looks like he could be a key contributor and possible All Pro. Williams flashed his skills but he did not and cannot, in my book, overcome the burden of his price tag which was highway robbery. It made sense for the 49ers to acquire Chase Young for a third rounder because they have all the pieces to, with a bit of luck, win now. Plus, they paid way less than we did. We gave away our second most valuable piece of draft stock in the off season plus a fifth the following year. We're not the 49ers. We're going to need to keep adding pieces. Totally idiotic move (in case anyone was wondering my opinion -- ha!).
I agree with your assessment, Kenneth, that we drive ourselves crazy worrying about that which we cannot control. That said, I have no control over my frustration when the team makes mistakes I'm sure they'll live to regret. Other than to disengage and not give a damn. I could do that. I'm not doing that but I have pulled back adequately to not care much. Enjoyed shooting the breeze in the comments today during the live stream. I can't do that during Husky games because I'm hanging on every play. It's easier with the Seahawks because I have way less invested.
"I can't do that during Husky games because I'm hanging on every play. It's easier with the Seahawks because I have way less invested. "
That's me too Parallax. Years of the Seahawks barely winning or barely losing, and beating teams they should lose to and losing to teams they should beat...well that has finally numbed me somewhat. That long-standing trend bodes well for the upcoming schedule tho! Enjoy the ride as Kenneth said.
Meanwhile the Huskies keep winning, but too close for comfort and still more extremely tough games ahead.
I love football...but sometimes I'm not sure why lol.
I'd like your post more than once if I could, brother. I remember with fondness the 1991 Huskies, as that was the year they were truly dominant. The defense was incredible. I remember one game against UCLA where we knocked out their starting QB and their backup. Then the UCLA offensive coordinator approached our defensive coordinator with an offer. "Stop blitzing and we won't try to throw deep", which was UCLA's thing that season. Our coordinator's response, as he later reported it, was "How many quarterback's you got?" We blew their wheels off.
The only downer was the split polling. But we Husky fans were sure that we'd come out on top in a real game on the field. That was a season when there wasn't much stress anytime the team hit the gridiron.
Unfortunately, the very next season, the wins were more challenging and then the whole thing fell apart. Heck, we lost to Arizona and then to WSU that year. Major bummer.
But in retrospect, it was like the Buddhists say, our expectations that were the challenge. Without expectations one cannot be disappointed. A lesson I've still not really learned, given how hard it can be to watch the Huskies play.
Now, truth be told, a lot of this is because I have a 9-year-old son. I can handle my disappointment when my team loses. It's harder to contain his. I know it's a life lesson he's got to learn. Ideally, I'd like him to learn it next year. I've told him that if his team ever goes all the way, he should consider it a once-in-a-lifetime experience. I don't think he's taken it in fully. It's probably the kind of lesson one has to learn the hard way. And the good news is his mother is really good at holding him when he's upset. I would too, but he'll run to her at those moments. He watches the games with me and turns to her when they don't end well. Dad energy; mom energy.
The 6-3 glass is 1/3 full.
Scheider’s 2nd-round picks:
2012: Bobby Wagner
2013: Christine Michael
2014: Justin Britt, Paul Richardson
2015: Frank Clark
2016: Jarran Reed
2017: Malik McDowell, Ethan Pocic
2018: No pick
2019: Marquis Blair, D K Metcalf
2020: Darrell Taylor
2021: Dee Eskridge
2022: Boye Mafe, Ken Walker III
2023: Derick Hall, Zach Charbonnet
Based on this list, the “highway robbery” risk for Williams is low.
Damn, it won’t let me post that photo of Williams again! 😆
Agree with the offensive comments. Again, believe your eyes! Though I admit it was probably one of Geno’s better performances (though that’s not saying much). And just to really annoy you....
That's one thing I didn't get - heard it when it happened & mentioned today: SF gets more accomplished guy than WIlliams for lesser price? Or did SF absorb his salary that Hawks supposedly "avoid" but really pay 2 & 5. Don't have enough time to understand caps BUT in light of pieces still needed don't pay a 2...
We couldn't fit Williams under our cap so the Giants absorbed almost all of it. This raised the price tag. I'm not sure how much salary SF took on with Chase Young, but I figured his injury history was part of the asking price being low for a young player of his caliber.