“Which, unfortunately, is another way of saying that Kupp is *probably not worth his salary* because if nobody can quantify his non-production related value then that means that John Schneider can’t quantify it.”
This is where I disagree. I value my car. I value my son. One has a price tag. It would be false to say my son is probably worth less than my car.
Another thought is that just because currently no one knows how to quantify those other aspects Kupp brings, doesn’t mean they can’t be quantified.
In basketball, to help quantify a player’s overall impact, teams track the production of the team when Player X is on the floor and when he’s not whether or not they are a scorer. This helps quantify the intangible value of setting screens, communicating with teammates, and being a scrappy defender.
Hold yer horses, cowboy! We just added some depth so Coop can rest a little. 10-12 game season, healthy for the playoffs, leader in the clubhouse, what we wanted. Next season is next season.
Was Percy Harvin worth it? I think he was the highest paid receiver the year we won it all. I don't think anyone cares how much we paid for CK as long as we win baby! But yes it's an overpay...but it might just be worth it in this situation. We'll find out.
Percy received $14.5 million for one game in 2013 and was worth it. I never thought the Hawks would win a championship up to that point and am happy he was on that team for that one game. So worth it.
I should have posted it when I saw it but after one of the games there was a Mark Schlereth video where he was talking about CK. He said when he went in motion down the line he was calling out the defense alignment. He also mentioned the time CK spends in the QB room. As a receiver, so far for this year he is overpaid. Like Joe said, how do you put a $$$ on the other things he does, coaching/mentoring? I'm glad he's on the team and I think he is worth it for all the intangibles. Who knows how much better the team is this year because he is on it? I don't see the advantage to cutting him with his guaranteed contract. Let him play out the guaranteed contract and hopefully we build up some good will that he can become one of our coaches like has been suggested. And you know he's going to make Rashid better. A better Rashid opposite JSN? Look out, super bowl here we come!
At Over The Cap look up Kupp. There is a valuation tab. He is below his value right now. Could improve later when he gets healthy. People say cut him. I say wait and see. How will you feel about cutting him if he catches the game winning touchdown in the super bowl?
I glad he's a Seahawk, but he's not worth it. His salary is a luxury this season that we can afford, and maybe all the intangible stuff is worth it, but he's got to be cut after we win the Super Bowl.
Would JS offer him a pay cut with a little more guaranteed money to stay with the team next year? Something like they did with Nwosu? There is just no way that JS can justify the cap space to keep him in 2026 on his current deal, but they may want to explore other ways to keep him around for depth and leadership. We'll owe him about $8 million anyway. What might a new deal look like that guarantees a little more while lowering the cap hit?
I'm not sure there is a clear reason to cut him for either the financials nor the roster. What I might see him doing is realizing he has to go fight for WR2 playing time and continues to push himself to do that. That said, I dont see him playing all three years of this contract, this could very well be his last season here. Seems like he has a knack for coaching and mentoring, but as a competitor can he make that switch for the next season.
Kupp excels at seeing what he needs to see. His teaching talents are over and above that. Surely he sees himself playing in a young man's game. I suspect landing here is no accident. No doubt he has a working knowledge of Billy Ball and the needs it creates. As Jody, John and Mike continue to build our Hawks, I hold zero doubt they will find Cooper a place among us where he can continue to re-write The Book on how to coach today's young folks. Where better to land than a place where he grew up? Neighborhood and Community are our way forward, Seasiders. I find great comfort in our endeavors, to include Coop as a future Coach.
Biding enough time to get Horton healthy/more experience and Shaheed (wonder why we went for MVS and not Shaheed before the season, probably wasn’t an option I’m guessing)
Job well done.
Worth it.
Jokes aside. I agree with the article. I have no idea how to rank Kupps effectiveness on the offense. But I know it’s hard to be negative on anyone in such a stellar offense. My outlook is positive on Kupp (and probably won’t be here next year) but happy Shaheed is here.
He won’t retire. He’s the type that needs to work. If he’s released, he’ll either play for someone else or coach somewhere else. I think it’d be a shame if it’s for another team.
I don't think that passing volume is reason enough to say a certain receiver isn't worth the money when that receiver is catching what is thrown at him. Through 8 games, Darnold is only attempting 27 passes/game and completing 19/game. That is good for 24th and 22nd in the NFL, respectively, while his passing yardage is 8th. JSN is getting 7.25 of those completions/game, leaving 11-12 completions/game to spread around to the rest of the receivers/TEs/RBs. This isn't a matter of ability, it is a matter of mathematics. Kupp is fine.
This is my take as well. Our yardage and explosive plays are coming via the pass but I don't see us as a "passing" team. We are quite balanced overall. If his playing time starts decreasing, we will know the writing is on the wall. Until then, I have to believe the coaching staff is content with his output.
As to whether Kupp is "worth it", based on his hard stats, he is not. During the press conference with KK this week, he was asked about Kupp's feedback to the coaches and whether it was common for a player to offer feedback. KK's answer was "it is not uncommon but Kupp has an uncommon way of going about it and the coaches are listening."
Sometimes a player's value isn't captured via the pure statistics. From what I am seeing and hearing, he is worth every penny this year.
As of Thursday, the Seahawks had four WRs on the injury report (Young, Bobo, Horton, Kupp), and Kupp was the only one that participated in Thursday's practice.
I’m happy that Kupp is on the team and, since it’s not my money, I don’t care what he makes. It’s depending on Kupp as the #2 WR that is problematic to me.
Thirteen of his 24 receptions came in two games (Pittsburgh and Tampa). Otherwise he hasn’t had much of an impact. There’s an argument that this doesn’t make any difference because JSN is going to get the most targets anyway. The pushback wonders how sustainable this is, especially against good defenses. FWIW, I doubt that this is sustainable, which is why I’m happy with the Shaheed trade—Shaheed is an actual threat who can get open covered one-on-one.
Kupp is worth it. When we got Kupp this offseason, I heard every expert say how poor are WR room was. Replacing DK with Kupp, and losing Lockett as well. I bristled at this constant falsehood. Kupp is Lockett’s replacement and DK was being replaced in the aggregate. (Increased production from JSN, Horton, and the TEs) Kupp’s performance this year will be close to or better than Lockett last year. JSN’s production alone could be the equal of JSN24 and DK24. Case closed, experts should have read SSJ rather than repeating the other experts.
I don’t believe Kupp will play all three years of his contract, especially if Shaheed is extended. What I do expect is Kupp remaining a Seahawk. He’s a workaholic. He’s not going to be able to retire and play golf. He wants to live in the PNW. He was born to coach for the Seahawks. Most players are unwilling to work the ungodly hours it takes to coach at the NFL level, not so with Kupp. If he’s not on the Hawks as a player next year, I expect him to be a WR coach, then perhaps passing game coordinator and maybe OC eventually. If KK stays three years before taking a head coach job, Kupp’s years with McVey and 3 years with KK would make him qualified to be OC for the Hawks down the road.
I totally believe Kupp will coach someday. You can see it in his behavior on the sidelines with the note cards, checking in with players and coaches, etc. He's totally built for it.
I think the Kupp is half full.
😆
“Which, unfortunately, is another way of saying that Kupp is *probably not worth his salary* because if nobody can quantify his non-production related value then that means that John Schneider can’t quantify it.”
This is where I disagree. I value my car. I value my son. One has a price tag. It would be false to say my son is probably worth less than my car.
Another thought is that just because currently no one knows how to quantify those other aspects Kupp brings, doesn’t mean they can’t be quantified.
In basketball, to help quantify a player’s overall impact, teams track the production of the team when Player X is on the floor and when he’s not whether or not they are a scorer. This helps quantify the intangible value of setting screens, communicating with teammates, and being a scrappy defender.
Hold yer horses, cowboy! We just added some depth so Coop can rest a little. 10-12 game season, healthy for the playoffs, leader in the clubhouse, what we wanted. Next season is next season.
I know not what
Was Percy Harvin worth it? I think he was the highest paid receiver the year we won it all. I don't think anyone cares how much we paid for CK as long as we win baby! But yes it's an overpay...but it might just be worth it in this situation. We'll find out.
Percy received $14.5 million for one game in 2013 and was worth it. I never thought the Hawks would win a championship up to that point and am happy he was on that team for that one game. So worth it.
....plus if by having CK we get over the hump and beat the rams twice (or more) this season it'll be well worth it.
I should have posted it when I saw it but after one of the games there was a Mark Schlereth video where he was talking about CK. He said when he went in motion down the line he was calling out the defense alignment. He also mentioned the time CK spends in the QB room. As a receiver, so far for this year he is overpaid. Like Joe said, how do you put a $$$ on the other things he does, coaching/mentoring? I'm glad he's on the team and I think he is worth it for all the intangibles. Who knows how much better the team is this year because he is on it? I don't see the advantage to cutting him with his guaranteed contract. Let him play out the guaranteed contract and hopefully we build up some good will that he can become one of our coaches like has been suggested. And you know he's going to make Rashid better. A better Rashid opposite JSN? Look out, super bowl here we come!
At Over The Cap look up Kupp. There is a valuation tab. He is below his value right now. Could improve later when he gets healthy. People say cut him. I say wait and see. How will you feel about cutting him if he catches the game winning touchdown in the super bowl?
As always, a good newsletter Joe.
I glad he's a Seahawk, but he's not worth it. His salary is a luxury this season that we can afford, and maybe all the intangible stuff is worth it, but he's got to be cut after we win the Super Bowl.
Would JS offer him a pay cut with a little more guaranteed money to stay with the team next year? Something like they did with Nwosu? There is just no way that JS can justify the cap space to keep him in 2026 on his current deal, but they may want to explore other ways to keep him around for depth and leadership. We'll owe him about $8 million anyway. What might a new deal look like that guarantees a little more while lowering the cap hit?
I'm not sure there is a clear reason to cut him for either the financials nor the roster. What I might see him doing is realizing he has to go fight for WR2 playing time and continues to push himself to do that. That said, I dont see him playing all three years of this contract, this could very well be his last season here. Seems like he has a knack for coaching and mentoring, but as a competitor can he make that switch for the next season.
Kupp excels at seeing what he needs to see. His teaching talents are over and above that. Surely he sees himself playing in a young man's game. I suspect landing here is no accident. No doubt he has a working knowledge of Billy Ball and the needs it creates. As Jody, John and Mike continue to build our Hawks, I hold zero doubt they will find Cooper a place among us where he can continue to re-write The Book on how to coach today's young folks. Where better to land than a place where he grew up? Neighborhood and Community are our way forward, Seasiders. I find great comfort in our endeavors, to include Coop as a future Coach.
Kupp was a “bridge” WR
Biding enough time to get Horton healthy/more experience and Shaheed (wonder why we went for MVS and not Shaheed before the season, probably wasn’t an option I’m guessing)
Job well done.
Worth it.
Jokes aside. I agree with the article. I have no idea how to rank Kupps effectiveness on the offense. But I know it’s hard to be negative on anyone in such a stellar offense. My outlook is positive on Kupp (and probably won’t be here next year) but happy Shaheed is here.
I really hope he transitions to receiver/qb coach, (emergency receiver) and doesn't retire.
He won’t retire. He’s the type that needs to work. If he’s released, he’ll either play for someone else or coach somewhere else. I think it’d be a shame if it’s for another team.
I don't think that passing volume is reason enough to say a certain receiver isn't worth the money when that receiver is catching what is thrown at him. Through 8 games, Darnold is only attempting 27 passes/game and completing 19/game. That is good for 24th and 22nd in the NFL, respectively, while his passing yardage is 8th. JSN is getting 7.25 of those completions/game, leaving 11-12 completions/game to spread around to the rest of the receivers/TEs/RBs. This isn't a matter of ability, it is a matter of mathematics. Kupp is fine.
This is my take as well. Our yardage and explosive plays are coming via the pass but I don't see us as a "passing" team. We are quite balanced overall. If his playing time starts decreasing, we will know the writing is on the wall. Until then, I have to believe the coaching staff is content with his output.
As to whether Kupp is "worth it", based on his hard stats, he is not. During the press conference with KK this week, he was asked about Kupp's feedback to the coaches and whether it was common for a player to offer feedback. KK's answer was "it is not uncommon but Kupp has an uncommon way of going about it and the coaches are listening."
Sometimes a player's value isn't captured via the pure statistics. From what I am seeing and hearing, he is worth every penny this year.
Agree, he’ll be fine for what we need. His only issue is going to be staying healthy.
As of Thursday, the Seahawks had four WRs on the injury report (Young, Bobo, Horton, Kupp), and Kupp was the only one that participated in Thursday's practice.
Shaheed pick up paying dividends already!
KenJoe, Thanks for the French phrase, "je ne sais quoi" /ZHə nə sā ˈkwä/.
... only on this site do we get this.
Thank God the French don't play American football or they would punt on every down!!!
He ne parle pas francais
Je parle francais, mais j'ecote lentement et je parle lentment! C'est tres difficile a parler rapidement! Haha
Je pense, donc je suis
hah, hah ... , yeah , right.
Damn auto correct, I meant to say J e, but if you type ‘j’ ‘e’, it becomes he. Auto correct causes as many problems as it solves.
When I first saw "Je suis" I thought someone had misspelled Jesus. Found it interesting to learn it means "I am".
I’m happy that Kupp is on the team and, since it’s not my money, I don’t care what he makes. It’s depending on Kupp as the #2 WR that is problematic to me.
Thirteen of his 24 receptions came in two games (Pittsburgh and Tampa). Otherwise he hasn’t had much of an impact. There’s an argument that this doesn’t make any difference because JSN is going to get the most targets anyway. The pushback wonders how sustainable this is, especially against good defenses. FWIW, I doubt that this is sustainable, which is why I’m happy with the Shaheed trade—Shaheed is an actual threat who can get open covered one-on-one.
If this is indeed Kupp’s last season as a player, he would be a good addition to the coaching staff.
Kupp is worth it. When we got Kupp this offseason, I heard every expert say how poor are WR room was. Replacing DK with Kupp, and losing Lockett as well. I bristled at this constant falsehood. Kupp is Lockett’s replacement and DK was being replaced in the aggregate. (Increased production from JSN, Horton, and the TEs) Kupp’s performance this year will be close to or better than Lockett last year. JSN’s production alone could be the equal of JSN24 and DK24. Case closed, experts should have read SSJ rather than repeating the other experts.
I don’t believe Kupp will play all three years of his contract, especially if Shaheed is extended. What I do expect is Kupp remaining a Seahawk. He’s a workaholic. He’s not going to be able to retire and play golf. He wants to live in the PNW. He was born to coach for the Seahawks. Most players are unwilling to work the ungodly hours it takes to coach at the NFL level, not so with Kupp. If he’s not on the Hawks as a player next year, I expect him to be a WR coach, then perhaps passing game coordinator and maybe OC eventually. If KK stays three years before taking a head coach job, Kupp’s years with McVey and 3 years with KK would make him qualified to be OC for the Hawks down the road.
I totally believe Kupp will coach someday. You can see it in his behavior on the sidelines with the note cards, checking in with players and coaches, etc. He's totally built for it.
Seahawks progression, WR coach → Passing Game Coordinator → OC → HC
Solid reasoning, Danno.
I have a plan, just in case JS needs help.