I do not think Rob Staton has great opinions in general about the team. He also makes incredibly poor arguments. However, I also think his draft analysis is very good in general (obviously can get carried away like Levis). Here is an exciting clip from a recent article:
"It’s a loaded early-round class for the offensive line. I have Tyler Guyton, Taliese Fuagu, Olumuyiwa Fashanu, Amarius Mims and JC Latham all graded as first round tackles with Troy Fautanu a first round guard. It’s early but at least one of these players will be there at #16."
TRENCHES .... TRENCHES ... TRENCHES
He goes on:
"I have 12 more O-liners with second round grades."
And when you think you're done ... it's a great time to get some more big guys.
I keep dwelling on Sean Peyton showing me what changing a Coach can do. He sets demands and expectations, knowing what excellence looks like in every position. Pete uses competition, playing who he see's as best each week. So next year, Russ is gone from the Broncos because he failed to be as prepared as Peyton demands. Every Bronco player now understands they must find the Champion within themselves. Having players who are "perty damn good" competing for the same position means you field a guy who will get beat by the guy looking to dominate his competitor, week in/week out. The assistant coaches need to tell a player he will have his ass handed to him this week and show them how it will happen. It takes unique personalities to do this, even if it means be rude, blunt and direct. Epiphanies often arrive like an electric jolt. McVey demands they do so, as does Shanahan. They are showing us the holes in this kumbaya coaching stuff. It was fine for a while, but footballers know a fist in the gut trumps natural talent, every time. Just ask DK. Ask Sherm. Baldwin got out early when anger was outlawed. Did we see us dominate once this year? No. It's not something you miss noticing. It's a coaching thing.
Desai got interviews and took a big job. And showed that our newish scheme can look really bad in other places too. Winning begets interviews. 7 wins, 9 wins, and 9 wins will get what they get.
Ken Norton was one of the best position coaches in the game. As a coordinator... not so much.
One thing I don't understand about Hurtt is that he has talked often about an aggressive approach to the DL, but these gap and a half plus schemes are not aggressive (see Al Woods' comments after he left). So is this Hurtt's idea or is he just implementing what he's told and having issues there?
What do the successful teams have that the Seahawks don’t have.Look to our own division, the 49ers and the Rams. Great coaching, and very good to out standing Quarterback play.
Until that changes for the Seahawks I’m afraid their is going to be A lot of unhappy fans.
A nine and eight record that wins the division just not gonna cut it, see Tampa Bay buccaneers, NFC south division.I can live with this season but for me Complacency and the same old same old that’s something else.
All the other 3 NFC west teams are top-13 in rushing (all better than us), and only the Cardinals gave up more rushing yards than we did in the entire NFL. Both our lines were horrendous in the run game. Without the 11 sacks vs the Giants, we would have been just ahead of the Cardinals for last in the division and 5th worst in the NFL.
The other successful teams in our division have good line play on both sides of the ball. In fact, that goes for the entire NFL, not just our division, as a rule of thumb.
Great article and I could not have stated this better myself. Many changes are needed and it starts with the OC and DC. I feel it should also include Pete. I think players are tired of hearing his voice. I listened to his 30 minutes on Brock with Salk yesterday and he talks like we will be in the Super Bowl next year. Our futures so bright we gotta wear shades. After hearing this positive we are great, I thought what a bunch of BS. Pete should be a used car salesman. I don’t buy what he is saying and
I think the players feel the same way. He has said it for to long.
1st section is spot-on, as usual, SSJ! The blame here clearly belongs to all the "big" 4. We can debate what percentage for each, but they all clearlt need to be better, or gone. I do want to say John has a part here, too. Maybe he has taken a backseat to Pete too much and has some untapped ability we need to tap. Maybe he deserves some of the blame for not giving Pete a non-coach's perspective enough. Maybe he lobbied or didn't lobby enough for certain draft picks.
After finishing the article, and reading the comments... as usual all y'all have very insightful and well presented ideas here, regardless of whether either Shane or Hurtt are gone (I want them both out), we absolutely MUST get position/specialized coaches who can get back to teaching and emphasizing pro-level fundamentals of blocking and tackling. I asked for Tom Cable's and Rocky's return earlier this week, and I wholeheartedly believe these issues have to be the focus of coach and player moves this offseason, as well as mentality shifting towards them.
Much like real estate is location, location, location... football is TRENCHES, TRENCHES, TRENCHES.
You make a good case for regime change even as you acknowledge your conclusions are based on anecdotal evidence. These changes may or may not be as good as any others but we all agree that SOMETHING has got to change.
You highlighted recent history of some successful teams to support your case, good stuff I learned a lot. Not sure you have the time or that it would yield insights but consider a similar analysis for a few teams that have been perennially ‘bad’, or that have been ‘average’. What can we learn from that exercise? More ‘here’s what NOT to do? Anyway, keep up the good work, and I’ll put in a good word for you with Pete.
After my post below and reading the comments, there is something I have brought up on Field Gulls. With Pete's contract and the looming sale of this team, Jodi is keeping Pete until they sell the team.
I do truly believe that Carrol and Geno will be gone when the sale goes through. Till then, I see Vulcan and Jodi keeping Pete to keep a stable image for potential buyers. I do believe Hurtt is gone. If not, I suspect the fan base will revolt. I am guessing this perspective is being accounted for by the powers to be.
I think if anyone watched both the Seahawks and Huskies this year with the conclusion of last nights game. I think it should be overwhelming clear the importance of the trenches.
Penix finally had to play behind a Seahawks esque line and it was not a great night for him. Shows how good Geno Smith really is.
Paul G pointed out the other day: We picked Charbs over O-Cyrus Torrance. Why? I am a Pete guy but mistakes like this and the lack of focus on the lines is one of the keys to the downfall of the Hawks.
Football has always been and will always be about the trenches. Draft and invest in them!
All great points. Penix looked bad before he got hurt. His sidearm flick delivery was not very accurate. His deep balls were all over the place, even when guys were wide open. He doesn't run. Throws flat-footed a ton. He does not look like a ready-to-play NFL prospect to me.
Also, I am loving your comments about the trenches!
For me, I think that the lines would be the #1 place I would invest when building a team. And I just don't think we have done enough post RW trade. Thought 2022 was a great draft. I think 2023 was a bit misguided.
2023 - 4th and 5th rounds in OL, 4th and 5th in DL (10 picks total)
2022 - 1st and 3rd in OL, 2nd and 5th in DL (9 picks total)
2021 - 6th in OL, none in DL (only 3 picks total)
2020 - 3rd in OL, 2nd and 5th in DL (8 picks total)
2019 - 4th in OL, 1st and 6th in DL (11 picks total)
I mean, how much more investment can they make without completely ignoring the other needs they have. You can quibble about who they picked, but they have invested plenty of draft capital.
I would say the investment should have been more. I really liked the 2022 draft with Cross and Lucas.
But the 2023 draft was incorrect, IMO. We drafted a CB, #3 WR, a number whatever DE, and a #2 RB, prior to drafting a lineman. That to me is not commitment. You know lineman will get injured ... and you preach competition. Keep drafting the lineman (and draft them high).
Spoon is a good pick ... I know people here love JSN, so I'll pass on that. But Hall and especially Charbs can be questioned, IMO.
Would you rather have:
Charbs and Bradford
or
O'Cyrus Torrence and Roschon Johnson
Also, I am just focusing on the rebuild, post RW trade, which started in 2022.
Anything is possible in the NFL. But, I would think that Shane saved his job with the offensive performance from Week 13 on. And this was behind a very bad offensive line but has a very good QB and receivers. However, the final game against the Cards shows the downside of Shane. The second half may as well been the playcalling from my high school days back in the early 2000s. It was terrible and if we fire him... I would not be upset.
I would also think Hurtts seat is very hot right now and he maybe demoted or fired. The exact opposite happened to the defense as it got worse and worse as the season went on. It probably peaked against the Bengals early in the year. I would love to get someone either from the Ravens or the Vikings to bring in their version of a modern defense.
Of course, this did not work when Pete tried to move to a Fangio style defense recently. Which could make him gun shy. I would not be. Be aggressive and go out and get an innovative DC.
Maybe I am in the minority here, but I think Waldron's plays would work if we had an offensive line that could block for more than 1.2 seconds. I don't care who the coach is; if you don't have the five guys up front to make blocks, your offense will stink. If we had a good line, not even excellent, our offense would hum.
Possibly. Maybe the coaching changes need to be at the position level moreso than at coordinator. We had more success with Rocky (why can't I ever remember his last name - someone commented with it earlier) teaching pro tackling and with Tom Cable teaching pro blocking. Our old QB coach is now an OC. We supposedly went and got a reputable QB coach to replace Canales, but Geno is at his ceiling, it appears. Regardless of coordinator moves, we DEFINITELY need better teaching/awareness of the pro level fundamentals of blocking and tackling.
Pete didn't really answer the question about significant changes coming up. He didn't say "no," so I expect the answer is yes. One or both coordinators are going to change. Pete and John will still be running the show, however.
His shout outs to Bobby and Jamal were thanks for the memories messages. He is loyal to them as people and teammates, but not as building blocks to next season's roster.
Jordan Brooks injury issues may work in our favor in keeping his price down for a second contract. I expect a significant offseason investment at LB (either high draft pick or expensive FA). How good would Roquan Smith have looked in a Seahawks uniform knowing what we know now?
I don't think we have a true strong safety on the roster with Jamal gone. All the other guys are better suited to play free safety. We gotta find someone that can disengage from blocks, fill run gaps, and reliably make open field tackles.
These are my early offseason thoughts/predictions/wish-list.
The most important part of my roles in management--by far--was establishing a relationship of confidence and trust with the manager above me. No matter how good I might be at the day-to-day of running a department, it would be for nought were I at cross-purposes with my manager.
The head coach is a senior executive. If his relationship with the coordinators is characterized by mutual respect, open two-way communications, and buy-in, he will be very reluctant to part with any of them because those qualities are really hard to find. It has little to do with loyalty and everything to do with the risk of exchanging functional for dysfunctional.
BTW, I would never say a syllable to KJ Wright about how to play linebacker. But when it comes to the makeup of a coaching staff, his experience playing a position is about as relevant as physicist's views on climate change. A roomful of superalphas jockeying to become a head coach somewhere means that infighting and backstabbing are inevitable. It's hard to see how that leads to anything could.
As I understand the argument the Seahawks don’t have top coaches because others don’t recruit them. The other argument is the unit is bad. My question is why would a top coach want to come to Seattle? Seattle is almost certain failure for the next Head coach/offensive coordinator. Particularly if they take over this year.
Seattle has a bottom defense and mid tier offense and yet somehow managed to win more games than they lost against one of the toughest schedules in the league. The coaches aren’t good so the reason the Seahawks did it is luck and luck doesn’t last - to be successful miracles will be required. Also on offense the expectation is that you will dump the average qb for an unknown and unproven qb the Seahawks will select after 15 teams other teams have passed on him and play that guy behind one of the worst offensive lines in football. Oh and by the way the Seahawks are getting new ownership. Sounds like a great opportunity.
I would say the same was true for Texans a year ago except their draft capital and two first rounders was extremely enticing. Their ownership is suspect and had a bad falling out with Watson. A speculative ownership change doesn’t matter because our upside is that we have young talent with heavy veteran contracts rolling off in a year or two with an apparently patient ownership group that we have no idea when the guard will change. We have a good reputation as an organization and a weak conference right now. And as we keep saying, winning cures all if someone can come in and do it - we are far from a bad landing spot for a new HC.
Houston by comparison was the perfect spot. Very weak division. Three years of losing badly = low expectations and therefore time. Solid accusation plan in place which dumped a toxic QB and salary by acquiring players and draft picks and the good fortune to have those picks at the right moment. Ownership didn’t look dumb, disinterested or overly meddlesome, but rather young and stable.
Now let’s look at the Seahawks- weak division? For the next three years, the 49ers look like the Seahawks of old - the best overall roster in football made possible with greatest cash value possible at qb. The Rams are better and have one of the best offensive coaches in the NFL. Some here have argued the Cardinals are close to if not better personnel wise and have a boatload of top picks. Do you think the path to winning the division was harder for Houston this year than it will be for the Seahawks? High expectations wild card is not good enough in Seattle - after years two years of losing will not be received well. Position to obtain a franchise QB. Houston had to have two teams make a mistake and one of them was the Bears. Seattle has to have 5 teams and the Bears have to make a mistake. Okay Seattle can go up - all it will cost is three firsts and DK.
Houston was a great situation conversely this is a Mike Holmgren situation and the new guy is much more likely to be Jim Mora than DeMeco Ryans.
By the way the Conference thing is way overblown. Bills Chiefs Ravens vs 49ers Lions and Packers are staple and strong and I suspect that Goff is the one QB willing to give a discount because of market is somebody else really going to pay him 50 million and has a coach who believed in him. The Packers appear to have completely executed the QB swap again. The weak conference argument seems really overblown One of the things that Kenneth has pointed out is that once the cap hit for the quarterback bites, it’s awfully hard to win it all. The cap hits are going to be in the AFC and the best overall teams are going to be in the NFC in the next two years. The problem with being a fan is that we don’t view our situation objectively.
I think Seattle is a great landing spot, potentially. If it's all change at HC, OC, DC you can come in and stamp whatever plans you like. There's scope to reform chunks of the roster around a solid core. Plus all the talk of a sale, as yet there is no sale nor bids or anything, speculation.
As of the moment only the Falcons is potentially the brighter spot to go. We're much better than Panthers or Washington etc.
Washington has new ownership and the 2nd draft pick and tons of Cap space. The Chargers have a top ten qb. The Raiders almost certainly want to be stable and are willing to take a few years. All seem like much better opportunities objectively to me than the Seahawks. The best player on the Seahawks is a rookie cornerback- good to have but not going to win championships.
Tyler Lockett gone and DK will want to be and should be traded.
If those things happen why would the Seahawks be in better position to win than the Giants?
As I recall your argument, and the argument in general, as I understand it here being slightly above average in a parity league is the road to perpetual mediocrity. I can absolutely understand that argument.
My point is that blowing up the coaching staff and getting a new QB under the current circumstances is likely to result in being significantly worse in the short term. But after you get past the ugliness of half full stadiums and 4 and 13 records for a couple years there is the opportunity to emerge anew. It is much easier to rebuild. The draft is a crap shoot but the odds much more in your favor if you are at the top.
My point on ownership is that there is uncertainty. Uncertainty at ownership when a rebuild is offing not the kind of thing that promising coordinators and upcoming superstars want to sign onto. This classic retread territory see Washington.
All that being said, I think it’s all just a mental exercise because it’s not gonna happen.
What I think is that Paul Allen loved Pete Carroll and I don’t think his sister is going to fire Pete. I think that responsibly she is prepared for the possibility that Pete might retire, but she’s gonna let him choose how he wants to go out, and he is going to go out in the next two years.
I honestly believe the team will be sold this year or next. Pete’s contract is over after next year, and if the team hasn’t been sold by the I suspect that absent a complete disaster the option will be renewed for 2025 but no further absent making it back to the Super Bowl. The Seahawks treated Mike Holmgren with class, and I expect them to do the same with Pete Carol,
That is a good business decision. Keeping the franchise, staple and attendance up is the best way to get highest price, and as a fiduciary is really her job.
Raiders - just lol. You're higher on Washington that I am, but i do get why that would be an enticing job. Chargers should be good, but it's the Chargers and it just feels like a poison chalice, someone will take it and believe "they are the one to turn it around".
But it introduces so many what ifs. You can't knock the 'Hawks because Noe & DK might leave, when thus far neither has made an indication to the fact (whereas Adams has clearly wanted out of Vegas for example). Equally you can't say a new QB is enticing to Washington, but negative to the 'Hawks.
I think your honest belief is basically the same as mine, but that's a kinda downbeat view and doesn't make for fun articles or discussion :p It really is a topic best suited for a bar and a long evening with snacks!
Rocky Sato was here (back when Seattle was the league's reference for tackling). Robert Saleh was here. Dan Quinn was here. Dave Canales was here. Brian Schottenheimer was here (anyone willing to entertain that his "problem" might have been Russ?). Darrell Bevell was here (anyone willing to entertain that his "problem" might have been Russ?). Kris Richard was here.
Listening to Pete's optimistic video right there (actually I stopped about 6-7 mins in bc it was obvious there was only going to be fluff) has me circling right back around to the HC.
Paraphrasing Pete: "there were 4-5 plays where we didn't flow to the ball properly and that was our problem". You mean 4-5 plays this game against a 4-12 team Pete. Felt more like 15-20 to me but hey. Then there was the Steelers game. Then there were the Titans taking you to the limit. And the Commanders. That Eagles win suddenly doesn't feel so momentous does it Pete. Niners and Rams at this point are just formalities, suggest you just put out the practice squad guys and save your players for games where you have a chance. MCVAY AND SHANAHAN ARE EXPOSING YOU DUDE. "Always compete"? Please, be serious....
How would you describe the team: "Young" (!) Ah, they're inexperienced and that's the problem. Except the Packers are younger. The Bengals (who played a back up most of the year). The Colts (who also played a back-up QB most of the year). And the Rams who OBLITERATED you again this year. Your problem is "young"? Chiefs Bucs Jaguars one month older. Lions and Dolphins 2 mos older. Means their players were born in August while yours were born in June. Wow, that explains it. Or the September teams, Cowboys and Ravens. Yeah "young", gotta be that.
Methinks the right word may be "old". The 5 HC's older than 60:
- Carroll 72
- Belichick 71
- Reid 65
- Reich 61
- Rivera 61
Am of the view the new HC needs to be brought in by ownership (new ownership?) now (OC? DC? Asst HC?), and have 2024 be the orderly transition year, when Carroll's contract expires.
The great waiting game. Could be worse, we could be the Pats - a team with a far more beligerant HC and far less talent on the roster.
I'm ok with making changes and it going badly. At least that would be trying something new. My frustration is that so many of the repeat issues of the last 2, 3, 5, 7 years are still issues. To me it feels ever more like the NFL has moved on and Pete just doesn't have it to make a really good team anymore. Thus we will wait and see, even waiting to start diving into draft prospects in much detail because that depends who's in charge
I do not think Rob Staton has great opinions in general about the team. He also makes incredibly poor arguments. However, I also think his draft analysis is very good in general (obviously can get carried away like Levis). Here is an exciting clip from a recent article:
"It’s a loaded early-round class for the offensive line. I have Tyler Guyton, Taliese Fuagu, Olumuyiwa Fashanu, Amarius Mims and JC Latham all graded as first round tackles with Troy Fautanu a first round guard. It’s early but at least one of these players will be there at #16."
TRENCHES .... TRENCHES ... TRENCHES
He goes on:
"I have 12 more O-liners with second round grades."
And when you think you're done ... it's a great time to get some more big guys.
I keep dwelling on Sean Peyton showing me what changing a Coach can do. He sets demands and expectations, knowing what excellence looks like in every position. Pete uses competition, playing who he see's as best each week. So next year, Russ is gone from the Broncos because he failed to be as prepared as Peyton demands. Every Bronco player now understands they must find the Champion within themselves. Having players who are "perty damn good" competing for the same position means you field a guy who will get beat by the guy looking to dominate his competitor, week in/week out. The assistant coaches need to tell a player he will have his ass handed to him this week and show them how it will happen. It takes unique personalities to do this, even if it means be rude, blunt and direct. Epiphanies often arrive like an electric jolt. McVey demands they do so, as does Shanahan. They are showing us the holes in this kumbaya coaching stuff. It was fine for a while, but footballers know a fist in the gut trumps natural talent, every time. Just ask DK. Ask Sherm. Baldwin got out early when anger was outlawed. Did we see us dominate once this year? No. It's not something you miss noticing. It's a coaching thing.
Desai got interviews and took a big job. And showed that our newish scheme can look really bad in other places too. Winning begets interviews. 7 wins, 9 wins, and 9 wins will get what they get.
Ken Norton was one of the best position coaches in the game. As a coordinator... not so much.
One thing I don't understand about Hurtt is that he has talked often about an aggressive approach to the DL, but these gap and a half plus schemes are not aggressive (see Al Woods' comments after he left). So is this Hurtt's idea or is he just implementing what he's told and having issues there?
What do the successful teams have that the Seahawks don’t have.Look to our own division, the 49ers and the Rams. Great coaching, and very good to out standing Quarterback play.
Until that changes for the Seahawks I’m afraid their is going to be A lot of unhappy fans.
A nine and eight record that wins the division just not gonna cut it, see Tampa Bay buccaneers, NFC south division.I can live with this season but for me Complacency and the same old same old that’s something else.
All the other 3 NFC west teams are top-13 in rushing (all better than us), and only the Cardinals gave up more rushing yards than we did in the entire NFL. Both our lines were horrendous in the run game. Without the 11 sacks vs the Giants, we would have been just ahead of the Cardinals for last in the division and 5th worst in the NFL.
The other successful teams in our division have good line play on both sides of the ball. In fact, that goes for the entire NFL, not just our division, as a rule of thumb.
Great article and I could not have stated this better myself. Many changes are needed and it starts with the OC and DC. I feel it should also include Pete. I think players are tired of hearing his voice. I listened to his 30 minutes on Brock with Salk yesterday and he talks like we will be in the Super Bowl next year. Our futures so bright we gotta wear shades. After hearing this positive we are great, I thought what a bunch of BS. Pete should be a used car salesman. I don’t buy what he is saying and
I think the players feel the same way. He has said it for to long.
1st section is spot-on, as usual, SSJ! The blame here clearly belongs to all the "big" 4. We can debate what percentage for each, but they all clearlt need to be better, or gone. I do want to say John has a part here, too. Maybe he has taken a backseat to Pete too much and has some untapped ability we need to tap. Maybe he deserves some of the blame for not giving Pete a non-coach's perspective enough. Maybe he lobbied or didn't lobby enough for certain draft picks.
Now, back to the rest of the article
..
After finishing the article, and reading the comments... as usual all y'all have very insightful and well presented ideas here, regardless of whether either Shane or Hurtt are gone (I want them both out), we absolutely MUST get position/specialized coaches who can get back to teaching and emphasizing pro-level fundamentals of blocking and tackling. I asked for Tom Cable's and Rocky's return earlier this week, and I wholeheartedly believe these issues have to be the focus of coach and player moves this offseason, as well as mentality shifting towards them.
Much like real estate is location, location, location... football is TRENCHES, TRENCHES, TRENCHES.
You make a good case for regime change even as you acknowledge your conclusions are based on anecdotal evidence. These changes may or may not be as good as any others but we all agree that SOMETHING has got to change.
You highlighted recent history of some successful teams to support your case, good stuff I learned a lot. Not sure you have the time or that it would yield insights but consider a similar analysis for a few teams that have been perennially ‘bad’, or that have been ‘average’. What can we learn from that exercise? More ‘here’s what NOT to do? Anyway, keep up the good work, and I’ll put in a good word for you with Pete.
After my post below and reading the comments, there is something I have brought up on Field Gulls. With Pete's contract and the looming sale of this team, Jodi is keeping Pete until they sell the team.
I do truly believe that Carrol and Geno will be gone when the sale goes through. Till then, I see Vulcan and Jodi keeping Pete to keep a stable image for potential buyers. I do believe Hurtt is gone. If not, I suspect the fan base will revolt. I am guessing this perspective is being accounted for by the powers to be.
I think if anyone watched both the Seahawks and Huskies this year with the conclusion of last nights game. I think it should be overwhelming clear the importance of the trenches.
Penix finally had to play behind a Seahawks esque line and it was not a great night for him. Shows how good Geno Smith really is.
Paul G pointed out the other day: We picked Charbs over O-Cyrus Torrance. Why? I am a Pete guy but mistakes like this and the lack of focus on the lines is one of the keys to the downfall of the Hawks.
Football has always been and will always be about the trenches. Draft and invest in them!
All great points. Penix looked bad before he got hurt. His sidearm flick delivery was not very accurate. His deep balls were all over the place, even when guys were wide open. He doesn't run. Throws flat-footed a ton. He does not look like a ready-to-play NFL prospect to me.
Thanks for the response!
Also, I am loving your comments about the trenches!
For me, I think that the lines would be the #1 place I would invest when building a team. And I just don't think we have done enough post RW trade. Thought 2022 was a great draft. I think 2023 was a bit misguided.
Except they have drafted in the trenches:
2023 - 4th and 5th rounds in OL, 4th and 5th in DL (10 picks total)
2022 - 1st and 3rd in OL, 2nd and 5th in DL (9 picks total)
2021 - 6th in OL, none in DL (only 3 picks total)
2020 - 3rd in OL, 2nd and 5th in DL (8 picks total)
2019 - 4th in OL, 1st and 6th in DL (11 picks total)
I mean, how much more investment can they make without completely ignoring the other needs they have. You can quibble about who they picked, but they have invested plenty of draft capital.
I would say the investment should have been more. I really liked the 2022 draft with Cross and Lucas.
But the 2023 draft was incorrect, IMO. We drafted a CB, #3 WR, a number whatever DE, and a #2 RB, prior to drafting a lineman. That to me is not commitment. You know lineman will get injured ... and you preach competition. Keep drafting the lineman (and draft them high).
Spoon is a good pick ... I know people here love JSN, so I'll pass on that. But Hall and especially Charbs can be questioned, IMO.
Would you rather have:
Charbs and Bradford
or
O'Cyrus Torrence and Roschon Johnson
Also, I am just focusing on the rebuild, post RW trade, which started in 2022.
Anything is possible in the NFL. But, I would think that Shane saved his job with the offensive performance from Week 13 on. And this was behind a very bad offensive line but has a very good QB and receivers. However, the final game against the Cards shows the downside of Shane. The second half may as well been the playcalling from my high school days back in the early 2000s. It was terrible and if we fire him... I would not be upset.
I would also think Hurtts seat is very hot right now and he maybe demoted or fired. The exact opposite happened to the defense as it got worse and worse as the season went on. It probably peaked against the Bengals early in the year. I would love to get someone either from the Ravens or the Vikings to bring in their version of a modern defense.
Of course, this did not work when Pete tried to move to a Fangio style defense recently. Which could make him gun shy. I would not be. Be aggressive and go out and get an innovative DC.
Maybe I am in the minority here, but I think Waldron's plays would work if we had an offensive line that could block for more than 1.2 seconds. I don't care who the coach is; if you don't have the five guys up front to make blocks, your offense will stink. If we had a good line, not even excellent, our offense would hum.
Possibly. Maybe the coaching changes need to be at the position level moreso than at coordinator. We had more success with Rocky (why can't I ever remember his last name - someone commented with it earlier) teaching pro tackling and with Tom Cable teaching pro blocking. Our old QB coach is now an OC. We supposedly went and got a reputable QB coach to replace Canales, but Geno is at his ceiling, it appears. Regardless of coordinator moves, we DEFINITELY need better teaching/awareness of the pro level fundamentals of blocking and tackling.
Pete didn't really answer the question about significant changes coming up. He didn't say "no," so I expect the answer is yes. One or both coordinators are going to change. Pete and John will still be running the show, however.
His shout outs to Bobby and Jamal were thanks for the memories messages. He is loyal to them as people and teammates, but not as building blocks to next season's roster.
Jordan Brooks injury issues may work in our favor in keeping his price down for a second contract. I expect a significant offseason investment at LB (either high draft pick or expensive FA). How good would Roquan Smith have looked in a Seahawks uniform knowing what we know now?
I don't think we have a true strong safety on the roster with Jamal gone. All the other guys are better suited to play free safety. We gotta find someone that can disengage from blocks, fill run gaps, and reliably make open field tackles.
These are my early offseason thoughts/predictions/wish-list.
The most important part of my roles in management--by far--was establishing a relationship of confidence and trust with the manager above me. No matter how good I might be at the day-to-day of running a department, it would be for nought were I at cross-purposes with my manager.
The head coach is a senior executive. If his relationship with the coordinators is characterized by mutual respect, open two-way communications, and buy-in, he will be very reluctant to part with any of them because those qualities are really hard to find. It has little to do with loyalty and everything to do with the risk of exchanging functional for dysfunctional.
BTW, I would never say a syllable to KJ Wright about how to play linebacker. But when it comes to the makeup of a coaching staff, his experience playing a position is about as relevant as physicist's views on climate change. A roomful of superalphas jockeying to become a head coach somewhere means that infighting and backstabbing are inevitable. It's hard to see how that leads to anything could.
As I understand the argument the Seahawks don’t have top coaches because others don’t recruit them. The other argument is the unit is bad. My question is why would a top coach want to come to Seattle? Seattle is almost certain failure for the next Head coach/offensive coordinator. Particularly if they take over this year.
Seattle has a bottom defense and mid tier offense and yet somehow managed to win more games than they lost against one of the toughest schedules in the league. The coaches aren’t good so the reason the Seahawks did it is luck and luck doesn’t last - to be successful miracles will be required. Also on offense the expectation is that you will dump the average qb for an unknown and unproven qb the Seahawks will select after 15 teams other teams have passed on him and play that guy behind one of the worst offensive lines in football. Oh and by the way the Seahawks are getting new ownership. Sounds like a great opportunity.
I would say the same was true for Texans a year ago except their draft capital and two first rounders was extremely enticing. Their ownership is suspect and had a bad falling out with Watson. A speculative ownership change doesn’t matter because our upside is that we have young talent with heavy veteran contracts rolling off in a year or two with an apparently patient ownership group that we have no idea when the guard will change. We have a good reputation as an organization and a weak conference right now. And as we keep saying, winning cures all if someone can come in and do it - we are far from a bad landing spot for a new HC.
Houston by comparison was the perfect spot. Very weak division. Three years of losing badly = low expectations and therefore time. Solid accusation plan in place which dumped a toxic QB and salary by acquiring players and draft picks and the good fortune to have those picks at the right moment. Ownership didn’t look dumb, disinterested or overly meddlesome, but rather young and stable.
Now let’s look at the Seahawks- weak division? For the next three years, the 49ers look like the Seahawks of old - the best overall roster in football made possible with greatest cash value possible at qb. The Rams are better and have one of the best offensive coaches in the NFL. Some here have argued the Cardinals are close to if not better personnel wise and have a boatload of top picks. Do you think the path to winning the division was harder for Houston this year than it will be for the Seahawks? High expectations wild card is not good enough in Seattle - after years two years of losing will not be received well. Position to obtain a franchise QB. Houston had to have two teams make a mistake and one of them was the Bears. Seattle has to have 5 teams and the Bears have to make a mistake. Okay Seattle can go up - all it will cost is three firsts and DK.
Houston was a great situation conversely this is a Mike Holmgren situation and the new guy is much more likely to be Jim Mora than DeMeco Ryans.
By the way the Conference thing is way overblown. Bills Chiefs Ravens vs 49ers Lions and Packers are staple and strong and I suspect that Goff is the one QB willing to give a discount because of market is somebody else really going to pay him 50 million and has a coach who believed in him. The Packers appear to have completely executed the QB swap again. The weak conference argument seems really overblown One of the things that Kenneth has pointed out is that once the cap hit for the quarterback bites, it’s awfully hard to win it all. The cap hits are going to be in the AFC and the best overall teams are going to be in the NFC in the next two years. The problem with being a fan is that we don’t view our situation objectively.
I think Seattle is a great landing spot, potentially. If it's all change at HC, OC, DC you can come in and stamp whatever plans you like. There's scope to reform chunks of the roster around a solid core. Plus all the talk of a sale, as yet there is no sale nor bids or anything, speculation.
As of the moment only the Falcons is potentially the brighter spot to go. We're much better than Panthers or Washington etc.
Washington has new ownership and the 2nd draft pick and tons of Cap space. The Chargers have a top ten qb. The Raiders almost certainly want to be stable and are willing to take a few years. All seem like much better opportunities objectively to me than the Seahawks. The best player on the Seahawks is a rookie cornerback- good to have but not going to win championships.
Tyler Lockett gone and DK will want to be and should be traded.
If those things happen why would the Seahawks be in better position to win than the Giants?
As I recall your argument, and the argument in general, as I understand it here being slightly above average in a parity league is the road to perpetual mediocrity. I can absolutely understand that argument.
My point is that blowing up the coaching staff and getting a new QB under the current circumstances is likely to result in being significantly worse in the short term. But after you get past the ugliness of half full stadiums and 4 and 13 records for a couple years there is the opportunity to emerge anew. It is much easier to rebuild. The draft is a crap shoot but the odds much more in your favor if you are at the top.
My point on ownership is that there is uncertainty. Uncertainty at ownership when a rebuild is offing not the kind of thing that promising coordinators and upcoming superstars want to sign onto. This classic retread territory see Washington.
All that being said, I think it’s all just a mental exercise because it’s not gonna happen.
What I think is that Paul Allen loved Pete Carroll and I don’t think his sister is going to fire Pete. I think that responsibly she is prepared for the possibility that Pete might retire, but she’s gonna let him choose how he wants to go out, and he is going to go out in the next two years.
I honestly believe the team will be sold this year or next. Pete’s contract is over after next year, and if the team hasn’t been sold by the I suspect that absent a complete disaster the option will be renewed for 2025 but no further absent making it back to the Super Bowl. The Seahawks treated Mike Holmgren with class, and I expect them to do the same with Pete Carol,
That is a good business decision. Keeping the franchise, staple and attendance up is the best way to get highest price, and as a fiduciary is really her job.
Raiders - just lol. You're higher on Washington that I am, but i do get why that would be an enticing job. Chargers should be good, but it's the Chargers and it just feels like a poison chalice, someone will take it and believe "they are the one to turn it around".
But it introduces so many what ifs. You can't knock the 'Hawks because Noe & DK might leave, when thus far neither has made an indication to the fact (whereas Adams has clearly wanted out of Vegas for example). Equally you can't say a new QB is enticing to Washington, but negative to the 'Hawks.
I think your honest belief is basically the same as mine, but that's a kinda downbeat view and doesn't make for fun articles or discussion :p It really is a topic best suited for a bar and a long evening with snacks!
Rocky Sato was here (back when Seattle was the league's reference for tackling). Robert Saleh was here. Dan Quinn was here. Dave Canales was here. Brian Schottenheimer was here (anyone willing to entertain that his "problem" might have been Russ?). Darrell Bevell was here (anyone willing to entertain that his "problem" might have been Russ?). Kris Richard was here.
Listening to Pete's optimistic video right there (actually I stopped about 6-7 mins in bc it was obvious there was only going to be fluff) has me circling right back around to the HC.
Paraphrasing Pete: "there were 4-5 plays where we didn't flow to the ball properly and that was our problem". You mean 4-5 plays this game against a 4-12 team Pete. Felt more like 15-20 to me but hey. Then there was the Steelers game. Then there were the Titans taking you to the limit. And the Commanders. That Eagles win suddenly doesn't feel so momentous does it Pete. Niners and Rams at this point are just formalities, suggest you just put out the practice squad guys and save your players for games where you have a chance. MCVAY AND SHANAHAN ARE EXPOSING YOU DUDE. "Always compete"? Please, be serious....
How would you describe the team: "Young" (!) Ah, they're inexperienced and that's the problem. Except the Packers are younger. The Bengals (who played a back up most of the year). The Colts (who also played a back-up QB most of the year). And the Rams who OBLITERATED you again this year. Your problem is "young"? Chiefs Bucs Jaguars one month older. Lions and Dolphins 2 mos older. Means their players were born in August while yours were born in June. Wow, that explains it. Or the September teams, Cowboys and Ravens. Yeah "young", gotta be that.
Methinks the right word may be "old". The 5 HC's older than 60:
- Carroll 72
- Belichick 71
- Reid 65
- Reich 61
- Rivera 61
Am of the view the new HC needs to be brought in by ownership (new ownership?) now (OC? DC? Asst HC?), and have 2024 be the orderly transition year, when Carroll's contract expires.
The great waiting game. Could be worse, we could be the Pats - a team with a far more beligerant HC and far less talent on the roster.
I'm ok with making changes and it going badly. At least that would be trying something new. My frustration is that so many of the repeat issues of the last 2, 3, 5, 7 years are still issues. To me it feels ever more like the NFL has moved on and Pete just doesn't have it to make a really good team anymore. Thus we will wait and see, even waiting to start diving into draft prospects in much detail because that depends who's in charge