Brock Huard had the most salient comment of the day. QB and scheme go out the window if you can't block and Crosby was in Geno's face all day long. The Raiders manhandled both of our lines yesterday. I blame Waldron a bit for not giving Lucas help when it was obvious he was overmatched. K9 is learning but he's proven he's capable when he's given any space. There were no lanes yesterday and how often was he met in the backfield? TE is another issue because Fant and Parkinson are not adequate run blockers. An effective run game is half of the pass blocking battle. With Lucas/Cross a year older and a line/TEs that can run block, yesterday is a different game offensively. On defense we got little pressure and couldn't stop the run. Those are both front five issues. While I understand the sentiment of a QB at the top of the draft, I believe our assets must go to fixing the trenches. Another Nwosu, a disruptive defensive tackle, a center, a guard, and a blocking TE are needed. I'd love to get another WR but as Huard pointed out, the QB has to have the time for a WR to matter.
Two games in a row with the same issues stopping the power run game with the same excuse of scheming to stop the passing game. I don't think Pete is going to allow that to happen again. The question is not will they adjust, but can they? Can we go back to what worked during our four-game win streak, or did Tampa Bay just give the league the blue print for scoring points against the Seahawks? It sounds a lot better for Pete to say we schemed to stop Brady's short passing game, or Devante Adams elite level of play, than to say we don't have the personnel to stop the power run game against the middle of our D line.
Great writing here. Can I ask the folks here a rookie question (i'm the rookie)? comparing The Giants game against the Raiders Game, were we solidly in 3-4 defense for both? I know that there was a schematic change for the Giants and other games in that great streak where they were 'punching the gap' rather than staying back to read. Meanwhile whether they were reading or punching, were they always still in 3-4?
I ask for confirm here because I can't shake the feeling that the 'punch the gap' vs 'read' strategy should be adjustable play-by-play. why does it seem to be one or the other from start to finish on a per-game basis? ... I'm also asking because i'm likely light in my football knowledge if I'm thinking an adjustment should be easy to do, especially to one that had success against a top team in the NY Giants.
I've been searching around, and I think here's the deal: Against the Giants it was more Bear front which is what they ran last year and the year before under Norton. With the Bucks and Raiders they back to more 3-4 principles which is more two gap read and react with the defensive tackles. It seems straightforwardly (though I could always use some backup or disagreement here because I'm not an expert) that the only games they used the 'old system' of Bear fronts were the 4 game hot streak, bookended with The Cardinals. Everything else has been the new 3-4 scheme brought in by Hurtt.
If that holds up to be true to more expert folks than me, I think it's a pretty straightforward sign that we should no longer run the 3-4, ever again this year. Arguments being that the bear 4/3 plugs gaps with quickness which is what we're built for, as opposed to the 3-4 which relies on strength and guys' ability to toss their blocker.
But i'm not sure, i've just been kinda learning stuff over the last couple days. I wish i could call in to John Clayton about this on Saturday. *le sigh*. How's Irish doing, I wonder?
So, 6 people liked what you had to say but 25 people wanted to comment. I guess that’s a good thing. Some stats are hard to figure.
One of the things you listed was the 3 times 39+ points scored against our defense this year. You went back 8 or 9 years to find 3 more games where opposing teams scored that many points. I’d be surprised if you found any year between now and 1976 where we had 39+ points scored on us 3 times in a year.
Number 1 need is an offense wrecking D lineman. 2 is a Mike LB that can tackle ( B Wags where are you) 3 interior Ol . Until then, no QB can out score this Hawks D.
We agree with the exception that I also think we need another pass rusher. Our linebackers are having to fight off second level blocks on every play, hence your number one need, defensive line. Brooks is leading in the pro-bowl voting and Barton has missed very few tackles but I wonder how Barton is at shedding blocks. The real issue with out linebackers is their lack of coverage ability.
I think our ILB crew is better than most. Barton and Brooks have very few missed tackles. The problem is mostly in the line or the secondary. A elite D lineman will make Barton look like peak KJ.
Geno did make a few mistakes, but who doesn't. He had an int that could be blamed on both parties and a couple of short hops, but he did throw for over 300 yds. The incomplete pass to DK hurt but that's nitpicking.
Yet another great informed and level-headed analysis Kenneth.
After reading it, I can’t help but think a lot of our success comes from Pete and the coaching staff. For instance, I don’t think Geno’s a superstar. He’s capable, but not excellent. Now, after watching Wilson struggle, I’m starting to think that maybe he wasn’t the superstar we all thought he was. Maybe it was the coaching and planning that has given assisted in giving merely capable or very good QB’s, rather than excellent, the success??
We see this season the Hawks over performing to pre season expectations and arguably player list (as pointed out by you). I think it’s time to acknowledge the genius of Pete and the way he runs his team (the coaching team that is).
I try to tune out comments blaming refs and rarely have felt calls were terribly one-sided, though it does happen.
If Jalen Carter is available with Denver’s pick, surely we grab him. I want another rb as well. Outside of that, Id be fine with all trenches and McCall, assuming he comes out. He alluded that he might come back in a tweet last week.
Sometimes there are games when it seems like 5 or 6 fumbles or dropped interceptions what-have-you ALL go to one team. That does happen. There's no rhyme or reason to it, same as a "one-sided" game. The days of blaming Super Bowl XL on the refs is something I'm happy to say is well in my rear view. It's a waste of anger!
I would love to join the subscriber chat, but according to Substack, it's not available to Android users. Why everyone has to adapt to the Apple cult, I have no idea. You're losing at least half of your audience.
Edit: I'm still trying to get over that mess yesterday, so I won't comment on the game.
Android is still 3/4ths of the total market so I 100% hope that Substack gets that resolved soon. I believe they are considered to be the leader in the race to be the biggest newsletter/blog source, it's hopefully just a matter of partnering up with the best tech giant in the future, whether that's Apple or Facebook or Google or Amazon, etc. For now, they still seem to be in the early stages of development, like a start up, and so I'm crossing my fingers through the growing pains.
Unfortunately, this is up to Substack and has nothing to do with the powers available to Seaside Joe. I'm not sure what solution is expected here outside of abandoning the entire year of work put into Seaside Joe's newsletter to build what we've built together. I'd love it if Substack expands more, we have to give them time as they are still a small company.
It's coming...click on the link to join the chat in the article above and you'll see that Substack is adding Android access. Hopefully before the season is over.
Giving up 30+ points over and again to lousy teams is a declarative statement to where the priority in draft should be. Defensive needs outweigh the needs at QB regardless the pick.
Seems plausible that Geno would realize the Hawks have a T5 pick and understand his value proposition for it or that he realizes his stats are bonkers and he gets his bag in FA. Succession planning for Geno could be in the form of Lock effectively following the same path Geno did. The PCJS machine functions on solid defense and a median level of QB play.
Troublesome is the emergence that Eskridge's body cant function in the NFL and now there should be some worry about our WR room that may mean a high draft pick at WR.
We need DL studs, specifically interior DT studs, so go after someone like Carter with the T5 pick. Save the cap hit on Diggs and draft S talent high. Go for a WR and LB. Then draft a QB in the 5th or later from Our Lady of the Lake or wherever.
I believe that the Seahawks would be much better with another elite defensive player, no doubt! But let's also not pretend that these players come in and change football immediately. Or that they pan out 100% of the time. I know what you mean 100% and I don't disagree necessarily, I just hate putting all that pressure on one player to save a franchise, so I'm hesitant to say, "Well, definitely draft a player at (X position) because that will solve it." Bobby Wagner, Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Tariq Woolen...surely by now we know that great defensive players do not have to come in the top-10. Even if that increases the odds and would be very exciting.
I like to just keep in mind that Travon Walker, Aidan Hutchinson, Derek Stingley, Kayvon Thibodeaux, Jordan Davis, Kyle Hamilton...all these very great defensive 2022 prospects would not move the needle much, if at all, for the Seahawks right now. So to stop the bleeding of allowing 39 points to bad teams, Seattle has to do more than shoot for a savior at the top of the draft.
Should a team pass on a potential Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen for a potential Quinnen Williams?
Should a team pass on Aaron Donald when the QB could be Zach Wilson? Other than Nwosu, which of our defensive front five don't need to be replaced for the Hawks to contend? Our best lineman is 35 year old Al Woods and second is 31 year old Shelby Harris. Nick Bosa, Joey Bosa, Max Crosby, Myles Garrett, or Chase Young could absolutely be a savior on this defense. There are four top ten worthy front five defenders in Anderson, Carter, Murphy, and Breese, but relatively little depth beyond.
I used to be all aboard the trade your 25th+ pick for more picks later in hopes of getting a diamond in the rough. However when it comes to top 10 and most certainly top 5 picks- I do think players outside the QB position can make an immediate impact. Too many first round QB busts to go there- they are the riskiest of the lot for them becoming the chosen one.
I agree that I used to be more in favor of trading down from that range than I am now. I don't think this has any impact however on whether or not top-5 or top-10 non-QB picks are likely to have an immediate impact. If you see any research that backs up that belief, I'd love to read it for sure.
1. This being the same refereeing crew from the only other game this season I think the refs were partial against us (Saints) is at least suspicious.
2. If Neal has to miss extended time, I'd experiment playing Tre as a strong safety, and we only put Jones in for dime packages. Brown looked like a terrific tackler last year,
3. Interestingly, I looked at "DVOA by week" for the Seahawks, and we had a few weeks with negative (good) defensive DVOA against the run: Weeks 1, 2 and our 4 game winning streak. The only game we won with positive run defense was against Detroit, and that was close to 0 (only 2.2%), and compensated with the best offensive game of the season (56.4%, second best was 17.9% against the Chargers). So yes, this is a Pete Carroll team that will go as far as the run defense does their job.
If wins and losses are not determined by the teams competing on a mostly level playing field the entire sport is undermined and there is no reason to believe it isn't scripted like Pro-Wrestling. I can't imagine continuing to watch the NFL if you think it is rigged like this. Then again I don't understand how Pro-Wrestling is enjoyed by anyone, so maybe a scripted NFL is still worth watching for some just not me.
It's either "I believe in NFL conspiracies" or "I do not believe in NFL conspiracies." For me, I'm going to stick with there isn't an NFL conspiracy against the Seahawks. I think more people need to make this stand and say, "No, there isn't an NFL conspiracy, let's try something different."
Geno Smith lead the Seahawks to 34 points without any run game but two K9 great TD runs. Anyone blaming Geno is crazy. Kenneth Walker got ball and man on almost every handoff, who is being indecisive? The Raiders noted for being pour in their middle defense bulldozed Seattle on pass and run.
Two games in a row we played to stop the pass and got gashed by the run. A happy medium will atleast cause some thinking. Al Woods if he can, needs to play more snaps. He is the heart of the defense. When he is on the field we get pressure freeing up others to make the play. Also other than Nwosou and maybe Irving we lack talent, Mafe could be one but it takes time. To bad Taylor has not lived up to last season. I sure wish we had Carlos Dunlap, every Cheifs game I watch he shows up !
On the last play if Crosby wasn't in Geno's earhole we likely would have been in field goal range. It was the theme of the game. Without Geno playing well maybe we only score seventeen and it's a blowout. QBs get too much blame and too much credit... except maybe MaHomes. Got one of those laying around?
This is an article about the history of NFL teams with two first round picks:
https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/every_team_that_has_made_two_top_10_picks_in_the_nfl_draft/s1__37259760#slide_12
Brock Huard had the most salient comment of the day. QB and scheme go out the window if you can't block and Crosby was in Geno's face all day long. The Raiders manhandled both of our lines yesterday. I blame Waldron a bit for not giving Lucas help when it was obvious he was overmatched. K9 is learning but he's proven he's capable when he's given any space. There were no lanes yesterday and how often was he met in the backfield? TE is another issue because Fant and Parkinson are not adequate run blockers. An effective run game is half of the pass blocking battle. With Lucas/Cross a year older and a line/TEs that can run block, yesterday is a different game offensively. On defense we got little pressure and couldn't stop the run. Those are both front five issues. While I understand the sentiment of a QB at the top of the draft, I believe our assets must go to fixing the trenches. Another Nwosu, a disruptive defensive tackle, a center, a guard, and a blocking TE are needed. I'd love to get another WR but as Huard pointed out, the QB has to have the time for a WR to matter.
Two games in a row with the same issues stopping the power run game with the same excuse of scheming to stop the passing game. I don't think Pete is going to allow that to happen again. The question is not will they adjust, but can they? Can we go back to what worked during our four-game win streak, or did Tampa Bay just give the league the blue print for scoring points against the Seahawks? It sounds a lot better for Pete to say we schemed to stop Brady's short passing game, or Devante Adams elite level of play, than to say we don't have the personnel to stop the power run game against the middle of our D line.
Great writing here. Can I ask the folks here a rookie question (i'm the rookie)? comparing The Giants game against the Raiders Game, were we solidly in 3-4 defense for both? I know that there was a schematic change for the Giants and other games in that great streak where they were 'punching the gap' rather than staying back to read. Meanwhile whether they were reading or punching, were they always still in 3-4?
I ask for confirm here because I can't shake the feeling that the 'punch the gap' vs 'read' strategy should be adjustable play-by-play. why does it seem to be one or the other from start to finish on a per-game basis? ... I'm also asking because i'm likely light in my football knowledge if I'm thinking an adjustment should be easy to do, especially to one that had success against a top team in the NY Giants.
Interesting question, Andy! I don't have the answer myself but will keep this in mind for the future to share with everyone.
I've been searching around, and I think here's the deal: Against the Giants it was more Bear front which is what they ran last year and the year before under Norton. With the Bucks and Raiders they back to more 3-4 principles which is more two gap read and react with the defensive tackles. It seems straightforwardly (though I could always use some backup or disagreement here because I'm not an expert) that the only games they used the 'old system' of Bear fronts were the 4 game hot streak, bookended with The Cardinals. Everything else has been the new 3-4 scheme brought in by Hurtt.
If that holds up to be true to more expert folks than me, I think it's a pretty straightforward sign that we should no longer run the 3-4, ever again this year. Arguments being that the bear 4/3 plugs gaps with quickness which is what we're built for, as opposed to the 3-4 which relies on strength and guys' ability to toss their blocker.
But i'm not sure, i've just been kinda learning stuff over the last couple days. I wish i could call in to John Clayton about this on Saturday. *le sigh*. How's Irish doing, I wonder?
So, 6 people liked what you had to say but 25 people wanted to comment. I guess that’s a good thing. Some stats are hard to figure.
One of the things you listed was the 3 times 39+ points scored against our defense this year. You went back 8 or 9 years to find 3 more games where opposing teams scored that many points. I’d be surprised if you found any year between now and 1976 where we had 39+ points scored on us 3 times in a year.
Well to be fair, many of the comments are my own
Stuffing the box! Say it isn’t so, Joe.
Number 1 need is an offense wrecking D lineman. 2 is a Mike LB that can tackle ( B Wags where are you) 3 interior Ol . Until then, no QB can out score this Hawks D.
We agree with the exception that I also think we need another pass rusher. Our linebackers are having to fight off second level blocks on every play, hence your number one need, defensive line. Brooks is leading in the pro-bowl voting and Barton has missed very few tackles but I wonder how Barton is at shedding blocks. The real issue with out linebackers is their lack of coverage ability.
I think our ILB crew is better than most. Barton and Brooks have very few missed tackles. The problem is mostly in the line or the secondary. A elite D lineman will make Barton look like peak KJ.
I'm going back to the position I took at the beginning of the season, which is that I will celebrate wins and losses equally. So, Yipeee. We lost.
It was an exciting game from a neutral fan POV. Lots to celebrate as a Seahawks fan, but some complaints, too.
Imagine Richard Sherman saying this from the sidelines:
"Just stop the run, Stop the run! JUST STOP THE RUN!"
Geno did make a few mistakes, but who doesn't. He had an int that could be blamed on both parties and a couple of short hops, but he did throw for over 300 yds. The incomplete pass to DK hurt but that's nitpicking.
Pete said the int wasn't on Geno.
Yet another great informed and level-headed analysis Kenneth.
After reading it, I can’t help but think a lot of our success comes from Pete and the coaching staff. For instance, I don’t think Geno’s a superstar. He’s capable, but not excellent. Now, after watching Wilson struggle, I’m starting to think that maybe he wasn’t the superstar we all thought he was. Maybe it was the coaching and planning that has given assisted in giving merely capable or very good QB’s, rather than excellent, the success??
We see this season the Hawks over performing to pre season expectations and arguably player list (as pointed out by you). I think it’s time to acknowledge the genius of Pete and the way he runs his team (the coaching team that is).
Thank you!
I try to tune out comments blaming refs and rarely have felt calls were terribly one-sided, though it does happen.
If Jalen Carter is available with Denver’s pick, surely we grab him. I want another rb as well. Outside of that, Id be fine with all trenches and McCall, assuming he comes out. He alluded that he might come back in a tweet last week.
Sometimes there are games when it seems like 5 or 6 fumbles or dropped interceptions what-have-you ALL go to one team. That does happen. There's no rhyme or reason to it, same as a "one-sided" game. The days of blaming Super Bowl XL on the refs is something I'm happy to say is well in my rear view. It's a waste of anger!
I would love to join the subscriber chat, but according to Substack, it's not available to Android users. Why everyone has to adapt to the Apple cult, I have no idea. You're losing at least half of your audience.
Edit: I'm still trying to get over that mess yesterday, so I won't comment on the game.
I have an android computer and I get
seaside Joe emailed to me almost every day. Had a glitch a day ago.
Android is still 3/4ths of the total market so I 100% hope that Substack gets that resolved soon. I believe they are considered to be the leader in the race to be the biggest newsletter/blog source, it's hopefully just a matter of partnering up with the best tech giant in the future, whether that's Apple or Facebook or Google or Amazon, etc. For now, they still seem to be in the early stages of development, like a start up, and so I'm crossing my fingers through the growing pains.
Ok my second problem I have an android I bought in Thailand so I too can't join
Unfortunately, this is up to Substack and has nothing to do with the powers available to Seaside Joe. I'm not sure what solution is expected here outside of abandoning the entire year of work put into Seaside Joe's newsletter to build what we've built together. I'd love it if Substack expands more, we have to give them time as they are still a small company.
Sorry to hear it!
It's coming...click on the link to join the chat in the article above and you'll see that Substack is adding Android access. Hopefully before the season is over.
Thank you for adding that note!
Giving up 30+ points over and again to lousy teams is a declarative statement to where the priority in draft should be. Defensive needs outweigh the needs at QB regardless the pick.
Seems plausible that Geno would realize the Hawks have a T5 pick and understand his value proposition for it or that he realizes his stats are bonkers and he gets his bag in FA. Succession planning for Geno could be in the form of Lock effectively following the same path Geno did. The PCJS machine functions on solid defense and a median level of QB play.
Troublesome is the emergence that Eskridge's body cant function in the NFL and now there should be some worry about our WR room that may mean a high draft pick at WR.
We need DL studs, specifically interior DT studs, so go after someone like Carter with the T5 pick. Save the cap hit on Diggs and draft S talent high. Go for a WR and LB. Then draft a QB in the 5th or later from Our Lady of the Lake or wherever.
I believe that the Seahawks would be much better with another elite defensive player, no doubt! But let's also not pretend that these players come in and change football immediately. Or that they pan out 100% of the time. I know what you mean 100% and I don't disagree necessarily, I just hate putting all that pressure on one player to save a franchise, so I'm hesitant to say, "Well, definitely draft a player at (X position) because that will solve it." Bobby Wagner, Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Tariq Woolen...surely by now we know that great defensive players do not have to come in the top-10. Even if that increases the odds and would be very exciting.
I like to just keep in mind that Travon Walker, Aidan Hutchinson, Derek Stingley, Kayvon Thibodeaux, Jordan Davis, Kyle Hamilton...all these very great defensive 2022 prospects would not move the needle much, if at all, for the Seahawks right now. So to stop the bleeding of allowing 39 points to bad teams, Seattle has to do more than shoot for a savior at the top of the draft.
Should a team pass on a potential Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen for a potential Quinnen Williams?
Should a team pass on Aaron Donald when the QB could be Zach Wilson? Other than Nwosu, which of our defensive front five don't need to be replaced for the Hawks to contend? Our best lineman is 35 year old Al Woods and second is 31 year old Shelby Harris. Nick Bosa, Joey Bosa, Max Crosby, Myles Garrett, or Chase Young could absolutely be a savior on this defense. There are four top ten worthy front five defenders in Anderson, Carter, Murphy, and Breese, but relatively little depth beyond.
I don't know what you want me to say! I am the one saying consider all options. You are the one saying to not consider all options.
I used to be all aboard the trade your 25th+ pick for more picks later in hopes of getting a diamond in the rough. However when it comes to top 10 and most certainly top 5 picks- I do think players outside the QB position can make an immediate impact. Too many first round QB busts to go there- they are the riskiest of the lot for them becoming the chosen one.
I agree that I used to be more in favor of trading down from that range than I am now. I don't think this has any impact however on whether or not top-5 or top-10 non-QB picks are likely to have an immediate impact. If you see any research that backs up that belief, I'd love to read it for sure.
No research but ancedoltally N. Bosa, J. Bosa, Garrett, Young, and Mack come to mind. Obvious, immediate impact may be position dependent.
I prefer to do research.
A couple of considerations:
1. This being the same refereeing crew from the only other game this season I think the refs were partial against us (Saints) is at least suspicious.
2. If Neal has to miss extended time, I'd experiment playing Tre as a strong safety, and we only put Jones in for dime packages. Brown looked like a terrific tackler last year,
3. Interestingly, I looked at "DVOA by week" for the Seahawks, and we had a few weeks with negative (good) defensive DVOA against the run: Weeks 1, 2 and our 4 game winning streak. The only game we won with positive run defense was against Detroit, and that was close to 0 (only 2.2%), and compensated with the best offensive game of the season (56.4%, second best was 17.9% against the Chargers). So yes, this is a Pete Carroll team that will go as far as the run defense does their job.
If wins and losses are not determined by the teams competing on a mostly level playing field the entire sport is undermined and there is no reason to believe it isn't scripted like Pro-Wrestling. I can't imagine continuing to watch the NFL if you think it is rigged like this. Then again I don't understand how Pro-Wrestling is enjoyed by anyone, so maybe a scripted NFL is still worth watching for some just not me.
Tre Brown seems small for SS to me, but he might play FS and have Q play SS, which he has done before.
Yeh, I'd agree but I would like to see him at nickel.
It's either "I believe in NFL conspiracies" or "I do not believe in NFL conspiracies." For me, I'm going to stick with there isn't an NFL conspiracy against the Seahawks. I think more people need to make this stand and say, "No, there isn't an NFL conspiracy, let's try something different."
I don't mean a conspiracy, just a specific referee crew hating our guts.
I want to make it clear that that's not what's happening.
Geno Smith lead the Seahawks to 34 points without any run game but two K9 great TD runs. Anyone blaming Geno is crazy. Kenneth Walker got ball and man on almost every handoff, who is being indecisive? The Raiders noted for being pour in their middle defense bulldozed Seattle on pass and run.
Two games in a row we played to stop the pass and got gashed by the run. A happy medium will atleast cause some thinking. Al Woods if he can, needs to play more snaps. He is the heart of the defense. When he is on the field we get pressure freeing up others to make the play. Also other than Nwosou and maybe Irving we lack talent, Mafe could be one but it takes time. To bad Taylor has not lived up to last season. I sure wish we had Carlos Dunlap, every Cheifs game I watch he shows up !
I said Geno Smith played pretty good myself. But it's incorrect to say that he's blameless.
On the last play if Crosby wasn't in Geno's earhole we likely would have been in field goal range. It was the theme of the game. Without Geno playing well maybe we only score seventeen and it's a blowout. QBs get too much blame and too much credit... except maybe MaHomes. Got one of those laying around?
And every player can be criticized, evne Mahomes.