Yes I like how you did the alternative listing because that’s significant. And doesn’t count the large 2027 incoming. Will note too that often a defensive player improves and ages with age. Offensive tends to be a younger man game, except certain oline and QB. Can look at studs like Jones or Hayward or our own DLaw Big Cat and JReed :-)
The Defense, and probably DE/ OLB/ DT will likely be the focus early in next years Draft. DLaw, Nwosu, JReed are all getting close to aging out. Leo probably has some solid years left, but who knows how many? MM is a Defense First coach, so you know he will be looking to keep that side of the ball dominant. As SSJ so accurately points out, Offense (with exception of RG) is mostly set. As Grant Alden points out below, having all those draft picks next year means there will be some gems found in the draft that will push hard for roster spots or starting positions, leading to some surprise cuts. I am hopeful that R. Mills, Clark and Neal become key pieces of our D, and that J. Price is an OROY candidate.
All those draft picks next year, somebody’s going to become expendable. Get replaced. Somebody we like. Twelve picks. Say…seven stick? Whose jobs do they take?
"and half of that group is 34. It’s a good age if you’re a citizen, but makes you among the oldest in the league if you’re in the NFL." ~ only here by KenJoe. what a site.
* Offense: The Hawks are so set up here that it makes me nervous! I’m skeptical that the transitioning from Bradford to a stockpiled Day 3 pick or Christian Haynes can be pulled off without a few hiccups. On the other hand, any fan (not to mention John Schneider) has to be happy that the greatest offensive biggest roster-building challenge looks to be finding a replacement-level guard. Schneider can deal with that without losing too much sleep
* Defense: It’s notable that four of the five defensive line starters are acquisitions, either by trade or free agency. Historically, Schneider has not shied from building the DL with acquisitions—with exception of Red Bryant, none of the LOB starting DL began their career with the Hawks. An approach of extending Williams, moving Hall into the starting lineup, and replacing Nwosu and Reed with veteran FAs should not surprise anyone
Not worried about Spoon just yet. Let's get to camp and see what's what. Only 1 month and 2 days 'til the first preseason game! Who'll be the new guy that comes out of nowhere to impress and make the 53? What undrafted FA will make the team? Almost always happens. We'll see. Making this team will be hard.
I'm really liking both Clark and Neal's potential this year. And if not now, then certainly next year. Both use our L.O.B. as THE model for training themselves.
Bud Clark:
" Man, you know the crazy thing? It's a blessing. Because like you know, being the Legion, Legion of Boom man, like boom man, like who wouldn't want to be a part of it, you know? So I feel like you know, being able to try to recreate that is something that we are working on for sure!"
Julian Neil:
"“I’m the most physical corner in this draft class,” Neal said. “I use my arms to my advantage. I use my length. I use my availability. I’ve never gotten hurt, I’ve never missed a game in college from being hurt. I come down [and] I hit something. I’m going to go up and get the ball. I’m getting interceptions. I’m pressing dudes at the line. I’m locking dudes up at the line. It’s box time.” (Sounds like Sherm?)
I’ll add one other player to the notable omissions list - Chris Paul Jr. I think he’s going to be the next Drake Thomas/Okada/Jobe on defense and perhaps make the 53 this year. As for Spoon, I want him extended, but I also want JS to maintain his line in the sand when it comes to what he’s willing to pay for his extension. I know Julian Love has talked about how much MM loves Spoon. We all do. But at some number it might cost the Seahawks in their ability to sign or let go of one of Leo, Barner, Murphy or Darnold. MM and Karl Scott were able to greatly improve Josh Jobe. If Spoon isn’t signed before training camp. JS might be taking a very close look at Pritchett, Igbinoghene, Neal, Fuller and Dansby. If two or three of those players look to have a high upside, perhaps Spoon plays out this year and is traded after the Super Bowl. Right now the gap between Spoon and those players is the Grand Canyon. But perhaps it becomes the Snake Canyon after this year. Spoon’s signed through the following season (2027) so the Seahawks can wait and see if a deal can be had next year, or Spoon can traded prior to the draft while he still is under contract for the 5th year option. I also like that you have Logan Brown as a notable omissions list player. I think he can push for a roster spot this year.
"Right now the gap between Spoon and those players is the Grand Canyon. But perhaps it becomes the Snake Canyon after this year." ~ 'nother one, hah, hah, we're so fortunate.
How do you figure out a way to keep Spoon if he wants more than JS feels he’s worth? There’s a number JS is willing to pay based on Spoon’s value to the team. Right now they don’t see eye to eye. Spoon’s number is probably north of the $31 million the Rams just paid a CB, and Gonzalez has yet to sign. If Gonzalez signs for $32.5, Spoon will want $33+. It’s possible that is beyond what JS will pay. Spoon in under contract with the Seahawks for 2 more years. He can decide to do what he did with Cross. See how it goes this season and adjust the number accordingly.
This is all speculation. *If* Spoon wants $33M/yr, they should be able to work something out unless Schneider is low-balling. Which I doubt because Schneider generally negotiates in good faith.
I wouldn’t consider $30 million low balling. It is possible JS view $31 million a year the Rams paid as a big over-payment for CB. He felt $14 million for a RB an overpayment. I don’t know where JS feels the line on Spoon is. Maybe it is $33 million and Spoon will get that. We won’t know for sure until he’s signed or the season starts and he’s still not signed.
Spoon must show he's bought-in with what JS/MM are trying to do. Schneider can't be found to have held back or every Agent will use this to hold out, causing all kinds of Drama which no Team ever needs (certainly not an MM Team). JS has hired every Voice who may have genius and experience in finding clever ways of fixing such deals (Like Leslie Frazier). They absolutely know what is needed this year in a full-spectrum perspective. Then next year and the year after. They are after repeat Super Bowls 2, 3 4 or ?? and building accordingly. C'mon, Spoon! Get with it! SSJ is right in exposing how important Spoon is as a major Leader in our locker room and on the field. He's right. If it isn't gonna happen, then we have this year to realize that...
All of the notable omissions were for offense. That's not for any reason, maybe I just forgot to do a rundown for defense (totally possible that's what happened), but that's why you didn't see Paul or Julian Neal, etc.
I think I just became laser focused on how Seattle could basically just focus their efforts on building defense for a while because the offense has so many options signed long-term. Most likely I just forgot to do the defensive list when I was done with offense.
It would be so nice to keep all these players together, but the Seahawks will change and evolve, even in the short term. If we just look at the 2022 class. They signed Cross and Lucas, but let go of many quality players - Mafe, K9, Bryant, Woolen, Young… I was sure they’d sign at least three and probably 4 from that class. The trouble is when you scout so well and draft so well, you just can’t afford to sign everyone. We already signed 2 from the 2023 class. JSN and D Hall. Spoon would make three. But the Seahawks have to stay frugal and stingy with these extensions. At least that’s how I’m reading JS’s actions. Especially when you look at the 2024 and 2025 draft classes. Murphy and Barner will be must sign big number player, followed by Zabel, Emmanwori, and then who know what Arroyo , Mills, Horton, Ouzts, Richmond, Cabeldue might rise up and look like a 2nd contract player? I have always overestimated the chances of Seahawks on rookie contracts getting another contract here in Seattle. Hall provided value in his contract, but at $35 million APY, does Spoon’s value diminish? All those CBs taken in the draft? I love how Spoon plays and he was a big factor in the Super Bowl, but now I wonder if he wants too much for the long term plan to continue. Not going all in on Hendrickson, Garrett, Crosby, etc… I think JS wants a shot at the Super Bowl for several years to come. These past two years, not only did the starters get better, but the special teams and the back ups and ready squad improved.Find the Thomas/Okada/Jobes of the world, and get real bang for the buck. At what point is Spoon just playing up to his pay, but the bang is not there for the $$ paid?
Danno, yes the Hawks will have to stay frugal, 100 PERCENT! They cannot hold onto everyone, particularly if they way overpay for certain positions.
I love Spoon, and hope we re-sign him. BUT, the intensity with which he hits and plays at 180 lbs. does not set him up well for a long NFL career. If he costs too much, I would take the two No 1 picks and move on.
From what Julian Love says, I think MM wants him, and JS probably wants him at a price point. It could turn out to be a similar situation to Coby Bryant last offseason. The Seahawks wanted him and made offers to him, but his price point was beyond what JS was willing to pay. The question is, can the two sides get together? If being the highest paid CB in the NFL is really something Spoon wants, that might put him beyond JS’s line in the sand. It is currently $31 million APY for CBs, and Gonzalez has yet to sign.
Spoon has not been offered in a trade, but elite CB’s can command 2 No1’s. That is what Indy gave the Jets for Sauce Gardner.
Spoon has a higher CB rating than Gardner, so that is the logic, and has been speculated multiple times in SSJ and other media outlets as the trade value for Spoon.
JS is showing us his honest intent on keeping the Team together. Every player will know the what and why Spoon is elsewhere and how hard Schneider fought to keep him. Unavoidable. So we end up with a couple 1st round picks while winning Super Bowls. I simply can not imagine Spoon choosing to walk away from a run at the Record Books. Your call, Devon.
Age is key in this league. Thanks for the breakdown. And thanks for all the off-season content. My fan experience is so much better since I got SSJ! Great to see AJB get some credit in yesterday write up as well. Dudes a beast and no one outside of SEA seems to notice. I hope we're able to keep Barner for a long time.
Weren't we supposed to be bored during this slowest time of the year? SSJ is doing an incredible job during this most special Run in Team history. Expect Netflix will be calling, Ken! Who better to know how that happened from outside the system?
Yes I like how you did the alternative listing because that’s significant. And doesn’t count the large 2027 incoming. Will note too that often a defensive player improves and ages with age. Offensive tends to be a younger man game, except certain oline and QB. Can look at studs like Jones or Hayward or our own DLaw Big Cat and JReed :-)
The Defense, and probably DE/ OLB/ DT will likely be the focus early in next years Draft. DLaw, Nwosu, JReed are all getting close to aging out. Leo probably has some solid years left, but who knows how many? MM is a Defense First coach, so you know he will be looking to keep that side of the ball dominant. As SSJ so accurately points out, Offense (with exception of RG) is mostly set. As Grant Alden points out below, having all those draft picks next year means there will be some gems found in the draft that will push hard for roster spots or starting positions, leading to some surprise cuts. I am hopeful that R. Mills, Clark and Neal become key pieces of our D, and that J. Price is an OROY candidate.
Think there's any value in using Haynes as a trade piece this year? Feels like he's never going to see the field for more than a couple plays
All those draft picks next year, somebody’s going to become expendable. Get replaced. Somebody we like. Twelve picks. Say…seven stick? Whose jobs do they take?
Wow we are pretty young on both sides with those "minor tweaks". Most will probably come to fruition as well.
Love it!
"and half of that group is 34. It’s a good age if you’re a citizen, but makes you among the oldest in the league if you’re in the NFL." ~ only here by KenJoe. what a site.
Well for guys like you me and Danno, that is a good age. Decades ago…
* Offense: The Hawks are so set up here that it makes me nervous! I’m skeptical that the transitioning from Bradford to a stockpiled Day 3 pick or Christian Haynes can be pulled off without a few hiccups. On the other hand, any fan (not to mention John Schneider) has to be happy that the greatest offensive biggest roster-building challenge looks to be finding a replacement-level guard. Schneider can deal with that without losing too much sleep
* Defense: It’s notable that four of the five defensive line starters are acquisitions, either by trade or free agency. Historically, Schneider has not shied from building the DL with acquisitions—with exception of Red Bryant, none of the LOB starting DL began their career with the Hawks. An approach of extending Williams, moving Hall into the starting lineup, and replacing Nwosu and Reed with veteran FAs should not surprise anyone
Not worried about Spoon just yet. Let's get to camp and see what's what. Only 1 month and 2 days 'til the first preseason game! Who'll be the new guy that comes out of nowhere to impress and make the 53? What undrafted FA will make the team? Almost always happens. We'll see. Making this team will be hard.
I'm really liking both Clark and Neal's potential this year. And if not now, then certainly next year. Both use our L.O.B. as THE model for training themselves.
Bud Clark:
" Man, you know the crazy thing? It's a blessing. Because like you know, being the Legion, Legion of Boom man, like boom man, like who wouldn't want to be a part of it, you know? So I feel like you know, being able to try to recreate that is something that we are working on for sure!"
Julian Neil:
"“I’m the most physical corner in this draft class,” Neal said. “I use my arms to my advantage. I use my length. I use my availability. I’ve never gotten hurt, I’ve never missed a game in college from being hurt. I come down [and] I hit something. I’m going to go up and get the ball. I’m getting interceptions. I’m pressing dudes at the line. I’m locking dudes up at the line. It’s box time.” (Sounds like Sherm?)
I’ll add one other player to the notable omissions list - Chris Paul Jr. I think he’s going to be the next Drake Thomas/Okada/Jobe on defense and perhaps make the 53 this year. As for Spoon, I want him extended, but I also want JS to maintain his line in the sand when it comes to what he’s willing to pay for his extension. I know Julian Love has talked about how much MM loves Spoon. We all do. But at some number it might cost the Seahawks in their ability to sign or let go of one of Leo, Barner, Murphy or Darnold. MM and Karl Scott were able to greatly improve Josh Jobe. If Spoon isn’t signed before training camp. JS might be taking a very close look at Pritchett, Igbinoghene, Neal, Fuller and Dansby. If two or three of those players look to have a high upside, perhaps Spoon plays out this year and is traded after the Super Bowl. Right now the gap between Spoon and those players is the Grand Canyon. But perhaps it becomes the Snake Canyon after this year. Spoon’s signed through the following season (2027) so the Seahawks can wait and see if a deal can be had next year, or Spoon can traded prior to the draft while he still is under contract for the 5th year option. I also like that you have Logan Brown as a notable omissions list player. I think he can push for a roster spot this year.
"Right now the gap between Spoon and those players is the Grand Canyon. But perhaps it becomes the Snake Canyon after this year." ~ 'nother one, hah, hah, we're so fortunate.
Long as nobody’s revving up a motorcycle…
YES Evil Kneival (Sp) What a disappointment that was. He wasn’t even mangled with 27 broken bones when he got out of his rocket motorcycle.
“If Spoon isn’t signed before training camp. JS might be taking a very close look at Pritchett, Igbinoghene, Neal, Fuller and Dansby.”
Hence, extend Spoon. You get an elite talent, you figure out a way to keep him.
How do you figure out a way to keep Spoon if he wants more than JS feels he’s worth? There’s a number JS is willing to pay based on Spoon’s value to the team. Right now they don’t see eye to eye. Spoon’s number is probably north of the $31 million the Rams just paid a CB, and Gonzalez has yet to sign. If Gonzalez signs for $32.5, Spoon will want $33+. It’s possible that is beyond what JS will pay. Spoon in under contract with the Seahawks for 2 more years. He can decide to do what he did with Cross. See how it goes this season and adjust the number accordingly.
This is all speculation. *If* Spoon wants $33M/yr, they should be able to work something out unless Schneider is low-balling. Which I doubt because Schneider generally negotiates in good faith.
I wouldn’t consider $30 million low balling. It is possible JS view $31 million a year the Rams paid as a big over-payment for CB. He felt $14 million for a RB an overpayment. I don’t know where JS feels the line on Spoon is. Maybe it is $33 million and Spoon will get that. We won’t know for sure until he’s signed or the season starts and he’s still not signed.
Spoon must show he's bought-in with what JS/MM are trying to do. Schneider can't be found to have held back or every Agent will use this to hold out, causing all kinds of Drama which no Team ever needs (certainly not an MM Team). JS has hired every Voice who may have genius and experience in finding clever ways of fixing such deals (Like Leslie Frazier). They absolutely know what is needed this year in a full-spectrum perspective. Then next year and the year after. They are after repeat Super Bowls 2, 3 4 or ?? and building accordingly. C'mon, Spoon! Get with it! SSJ is right in exposing how important Spoon is as a major Leader in our locker room and on the field. He's right. If it isn't gonna happen, then we have this year to realize that...
There’s doubt as to whether Spoon is bought in?
I don’t think so. I think the only issue is money.
All of the notable omissions were for offense. That's not for any reason, maybe I just forgot to do a rundown for defense (totally possible that's what happened), but that's why you didn't see Paul or Julian Neal, etc.
I think I just became laser focused on how Seattle could basically just focus their efforts on building defense for a while because the offense has so many options signed long-term. Most likely I just forgot to do the defensive list when I was done with offense.
First, let's see them prove themselves. We know how exacting you are, SSJ.
It would be so nice to keep all these players together, but the Seahawks will change and evolve, even in the short term. If we just look at the 2022 class. They signed Cross and Lucas, but let go of many quality players - Mafe, K9, Bryant, Woolen, Young… I was sure they’d sign at least three and probably 4 from that class. The trouble is when you scout so well and draft so well, you just can’t afford to sign everyone. We already signed 2 from the 2023 class. JSN and D Hall. Spoon would make three. But the Seahawks have to stay frugal and stingy with these extensions. At least that’s how I’m reading JS’s actions. Especially when you look at the 2024 and 2025 draft classes. Murphy and Barner will be must sign big number player, followed by Zabel, Emmanwori, and then who know what Arroyo , Mills, Horton, Ouzts, Richmond, Cabeldue might rise up and look like a 2nd contract player? I have always overestimated the chances of Seahawks on rookie contracts getting another contract here in Seattle. Hall provided value in his contract, but at $35 million APY, does Spoon’s value diminish? All those CBs taken in the draft? I love how Spoon plays and he was a big factor in the Super Bowl, but now I wonder if he wants too much for the long term plan to continue. Not going all in on Hendrickson, Garrett, Crosby, etc… I think JS wants a shot at the Super Bowl for several years to come. These past two years, not only did the starters get better, but the special teams and the back ups and ready squad improved.Find the Thomas/Okada/Jobes of the world, and get real bang for the buck. At what point is Spoon just playing up to his pay, but the bang is not there for the $$ paid?
Danno, yes the Hawks will have to stay frugal, 100 PERCENT! They cannot hold onto everyone, particularly if they way overpay for certain positions.
I love Spoon, and hope we re-sign him. BUT, the intensity with which he hits and plays at 180 lbs. does not set him up well for a long NFL career. If he costs too much, I would take the two No 1 picks and move on.
From what Julian Love says, I think MM wants him, and JS probably wants him at a price point. It could turn out to be a similar situation to Coby Bryant last offseason. The Seahawks wanted him and made offers to him, but his price point was beyond what JS was willing to pay. The question is, can the two sides get together? If being the highest paid CB in the NFL is really something Spoon wants, that might put him beyond JS’s line in the sand. It is currently $31 million APY for CBs, and Gonzalez has yet to sign.
Who has offered two #1 picks?
Spoon has not been offered in a trade, but elite CB’s can command 2 No1’s. That is what Indy gave the Jets for Sauce Gardner.
Spoon has a higher CB rating than Gardner, so that is the logic, and has been speculated multiple times in SSJ and other media outlets as the trade value for Spoon.
No one, but other stud CB's have been traded for a pair of firsts, so...
JS is showing us his honest intent on keeping the Team together. Every player will know the what and why Spoon is elsewhere and how hard Schneider fought to keep him. Unavoidable. So we end up with a couple 1st round picks while winning Super Bowls. I simply can not imagine Spoon choosing to walk away from a run at the Record Books. Your call, Devon.
Age is key in this league. Thanks for the breakdown. And thanks for all the off-season content. My fan experience is so much better since I got SSJ! Great to see AJB get some credit in yesterday write up as well. Dudes a beast and no one outside of SEA seems to notice. I hope we're able to keep Barner for a long time.
Weren't we supposed to be bored during this slowest time of the year? SSJ is doing an incredible job during this most special Run in Team history. Expect Netflix will be calling, Ken! Who better to know how that happened from outside the system?
Thanks, Scott!