The problem is that fans have the memory of a gold fish. They may cheer when it is suggested we will be stronger in the long run with at least one bad season. Hmmm. I would bet that after a two and Zero start to a season, all that understanding will go out the window and the clamor for the heads of coaches and GM's would drown out any calmer voices.
Hey, remember we are hoping to get the franchise over these middling seasons by having one bad season. No, they won't remember that, and they won't remember cheering either.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
You are describing the beginning of the end. Or not. Who the f knows? I agree that at some point, John will have screw up his courage at take a bite at the QB apple.
On DK, you may be correct, but Baldwin was the BOMB. I only wish he hadn't retired so early. The more I watched his play, the more I became impressed with his talent.
I’m with you all the way on DK, but he is very popular with the team, so I don’t know if JS will trade him. I think he wants top 5 receiver pay ($30+ million) and that is a big waste of $30 million imho.
When Garrett Wilson said he wanted out of New York at the end of their season, I thought immediately trade DK for Garrett. We’d have to send the Jets a draft pick to make it happen, and possibly eat some of DK’s cap hit this year, but Garrett was JSN’s teammate for a year at OSU, and although he isn’t as big a deep threat, he’s a much better route runner and contested pass receiver. I don’t know if the change coming to NYJ will temper Garrett Wilson’s desire to leave. I also don’t think we will get better than a 2nd round pick for DK if all we do is trade for picks, but I’m down for trying.
This is the smartest group of people to chat Seahawks with on the internet. People on Twitter/X are out of their minds on DK's trade value. "A first and a second, if they're high enough," and such talk. He's going to be up for a big $ extension and hasn't been that productive. Plus the penalties, drops, and screw-ups. I would be thrilled to trade him for Garrett if the price is remotely right.
Wow that’s crazy. Doug was a master of misdirection and getting open. No one was better at it.
DK has all the tools and when I saw him catch a Td pass against Dallas in ‘23 he was clocked over 24 mph.
Sometimes I believe that players gifted with all the tools don’t have to work that hard. They are athletic freaks. They then get to a point they can either plateau or get that “ I want to be the best ever” and improve.
It amazes me how many times I read about tanking when it comes to Seahawks fans. These are likely the same people that would do anything for just one playoff series for the Mariners.
Now we are highlighting the Commandos?
That’s Washington’s first playoff win in 20 years!
We should not be like commandos, bears, jets, browns etc. having a top 10 draft pick assures us of one thing: we suck.
The whole idea that we should lose to draft a QB is like a riddled graveyard in the NFL.
And Stephen is right, these same fans would torch the coaches, players and owners with one bad season.
A 10-win season is bad? Absolutely not. It could be a whole lot worse, just look across the street.
LONGTIME Seahawk fans can compare to the jets, commanders, bears, browns, et al. That’s just the Flores and Erickson years. Personally, I never want the Seahawks to be that bad again.
Wish I could you more stars. Absolutely correct. It’s the part time Hawk fans that have no historical memory that speak that way. I still remember our NFC Championship win going to our first SB. All us old time fans didn’t want to leave Seahawks Stadium. Decades of trying we finally got there, only to have the NFL steal our first win.
See Rusty’s comment. Totally agree Mike. People forget the dead days of the 90s before Paul bought the team. 10 win season being bad is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion. I go back to 76. I never want to be like those other teams or like SJ just wrote about the Raiders. Only positive of those bad seasons we got a Tez and got to see an Arnold, a guy better than Arnold, play.
Another thought: take a page out of our own Super Bowl book. We didn’t win because of the QB, we won with a solid OL and a great running game. Why fight 32 other teams for an elite QB? Spend all that money in the trenches and settle for a QB that can be a game manager with some upside. And find an OC that can call a game suited to the talent on hand. If your OL sucks use misdirection, a variety of screens, three step drops, etc. Take advantage of the over aggressive pass rush.
We really did not have a solid OL. It amazes me how much everyone forgets that it was Russ escaping sacks, and Lynch running through tackles that made that OL look good. It was mediocre at best, and was more likely fairly well below average.
Does JS & his crew even have the ability to evaluate QB talent? Outside of signing Geno, it’s been a series of fails since the Russell pick. Lock, Howell, and I’d throw Flynn on the list too. And a few other weak late picks & UDFAs. He spouted off about Lock being a key part of the Russell trade. All a big nothing.
Respectfully. Lock had the best game a NY Giant QB has had in 10 years. He scored 5 TD's. Howell is still a unopened box filled with potential. Look at his season with the Commanders. He needs starter reps to get into his groove. It is known that John specifically keyed in on Mahones and Allen before they were drafted. So a case could be made that John is actually adept at spotting QB talent. Just sayin.
Fair enough, I can’t agree on Lock. He didn’t show enough and we let him go. That’s a fail on the talent decision for JS. Howell, I agree, hasn’t had a real chance yet, so we only have one horrible appearance with the offense in disarray plus rumors from inside the org. We’ll see - I hope the rumors are wrong and we already have a good young talent. But I’ll believe it when I see it. Pretty soon we’ll know if he cuts Geno and gives Sam a shot, or tries to sign another #1.
I have a feeling that we're going to have an offseason of big offensive turnover. There are too many contracts reaching decision points, a new coordinator, and a GM and HC looking to turn the page. Get ready for excitement and outrage.
Any cap savy minds here? I am not one. With all the other potential cuts and their related OTC dead money, will JS feel this is the right time for an extra $21M in dead money so we can play without DK?
Potentially cutting 3 or your top 4 receiver targets all at once. Bobo and an unknown rookie WR will work instead? Really? Our star rb is injury prone and can't be relied on to pick up the slack either.
Staton wrote a believable piece on why DK dead money is a big reason why he won't be cut. Staton also demonstrated that WR peer $30M extensions cost much less in the first several years than #30M/yr and provides a "kick the can down the road" type of cap management method.
McDonald seems to like DK, wanting to find ways to get him more touches to impact the game more.
Given these contributing factors, I'd be surprised if DK is traded this year unless dead money be maneuvered to an acceptable amount. Cap expert, explain how we can do it?
Just looking at OTC and it states that a post-June 1 trade would result in $13.8M dead money, rather than the $21M if we traded sooner. I'm not cap savvy or great at interpreting OTC's data, but it seems like this would suggest a better return to trade him for 2026 picks instead of getting something done pre-draft this offseason. I think DK will be on the roster heading into training camp, but will be holding out for an extension or trade prior to week one. It'll be fun to watch in all play out.
Bobo is good at short to medium fade routes and is a really good blocker. Has great hands and a big body he knows how to use. I don't see him as an NFL #3 simply due to lack of speed, but he has value for sure.
If you're looking for article ideas, a retrospective on prior draft 'trade-downs' would be of interest. What JS's history of success vs 'meh' payback from those maneuvers?
I agree on the soft schedule oppty. If Seattle can become a top 10 defense against a bottom 10 schedule, could be 11-12 wins. Only reason it might not win the division is that everyone in the division has a good schedule this year
We don't need to tank necessarily to get a top pick....we need to acquire the first pick of a team likely to be picking high. Let them stink it up, and we get their pick.
DK gone. Geno probably too. New look 'Hawks coming soon.
After Metcalf returned from injury, Ryan Grubb used him mainly as a decoy.
The Occam’s Razor conclusion for the back half of Metcalf’s 2024 season is (1) he played hurt and (2) the then-OC did not use him properly. To be fair, the latter may be related to the former.
As for DK, I agree with everything you say. But I have a big issue to add. Certainly his knucklehead penalties are costly on the field, but he goes farther by demanding that he’s not going to change… “that’s who I am”. That HAS TO BE A LOCKER ROOM CANCER. He’s hurting the team and is devoted to doing it more. His teammates have got to be infuriated by that attitude. He has to go. ADDITIONALLY BY SUBTRACTION.
Piling on a bit here: he can’t run a full short route tree. He is a one trick pony—go long. Our OL can’t protect long enough for long, slow developing plays to develop.
I just can’t decide. JS imo has been pretty good with getting players that have kept us competitive. Although, just being competitive is getting tired. I want playoffs and potential SB. Also, has MM really proven anything yet? Ok, our D looked better, but our O? Will his job be on the line if we have a bad season next year? Surely he’ll have a say on who we pick up in FA and draft.
Maybe we just need to do a clean sweep and cut off the deadwood and take a punt on a few young draftees to develop. This would be a boom or bust strategy, but at least it will be different. However, I agree with Stephen Pitell that fans would be forgetful with a building mentality and they’ll be impatient for success. But that is exactly where we’re at anyway, aren’t we?
Is it better to stay competitive and hope that things fall our way when it counts, or is it better to take a punt on a proper rebuild and cop a season or two of bruised fan ego? I’m not even sure that rebuilds are always that successful anyway. So, like I said, I just can’t decide.
Regarding DK, lets see what he can do with a good QB and a new OC before we trade him. There's no rule saying he has to be traded pre season. As far as tanking goes, how did that work out for drafting Ryan Leaf, De Marcus Russell, Rick Mirer, or many other busts.
Get cap space by trading Geno ( to Pete's Raiders) and cutting a bunch of over priced dead weight, both Fants, D.Jones, Tomlinson, P. Brown, and let Lockett retire with full honors and make him an assistant recievers coach.
There are some very interesting QBs available in the later rounds
The problem is that fans have the memory of a gold fish. They may cheer when it is suggested we will be stronger in the long run with at least one bad season. Hmmm. I would bet that after a two and Zero start to a season, all that understanding will go out the window and the clamor for the heads of coaches and GM's would drown out any calmer voices.
Hey, remember we are hoping to get the franchise over these middling seasons by having one bad season. No, they won't remember that, and they won't remember cheering either.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
You are describing the beginning of the end. Or not. Who the f knows? I agree that at some point, John will have screw up his courage at take a bite at the QB apple.
On DK, you may be correct, but Baldwin was the BOMB. I only wish he hadn't retired so early. The more I watched his play, the more I became impressed with his talent.
Baldwin had All-Pro feet when it came to getting off the line. To this day, I’m mystified that he was undrafted.
I’m with you all the way on DK, but he is very popular with the team, so I don’t know if JS will trade him. I think he wants top 5 receiver pay ($30+ million) and that is a big waste of $30 million imho.
When Garrett Wilson said he wanted out of New York at the end of their season, I thought immediately trade DK for Garrett. We’d have to send the Jets a draft pick to make it happen, and possibly eat some of DK’s cap hit this year, but Garrett was JSN’s teammate for a year at OSU, and although he isn’t as big a deep threat, he’s a much better route runner and contested pass receiver. I don’t know if the change coming to NYJ will temper Garrett Wilson’s desire to leave. I also don’t think we will get better than a 2nd round pick for DK if all we do is trade for picks, but I’m down for trying.
This is the smartest group of people to chat Seahawks with on the internet. People on Twitter/X are out of their minds on DK's trade value. "A first and a second, if they're high enough," and such talk. He's going to be up for a big $ extension and hasn't been that productive. Plus the penalties, drops, and screw-ups. I would be thrilled to trade him for Garrett if the price is remotely right.
Wow that’s crazy. Doug was a master of misdirection and getting open. No one was better at it.
DK has all the tools and when I saw him catch a Td pass against Dallas in ‘23 he was clocked over 24 mph.
Sometimes I believe that players gifted with all the tools don’t have to work that hard. They are athletic freaks. They then get to a point they can either plateau or get that “ I want to be the best ever” and improve.
DK is at that fork.
DK will only reach his full potential on another team. And thats actually a big if. Here in Seattle he's on cruise control.
It amazes me how many times I read about tanking when it comes to Seahawks fans. These are likely the same people that would do anything for just one playoff series for the Mariners.
Now we are highlighting the Commandos?
That’s Washington’s first playoff win in 20 years!
We should not be like commandos, bears, jets, browns etc. having a top 10 draft pick assures us of one thing: we suck.
The whole idea that we should lose to draft a QB is like a riddled graveyard in the NFL.
And Stephen is right, these same fans would torch the coaches, players and owners with one bad season.
A 10-win season is bad? Absolutely not. It could be a whole lot worse, just look across the street.
Stay the course and keep stacking!
LONGTIME Seahawk fans can compare to the jets, commanders, bears, browns, et al. That’s just the Flores and Erickson years. Personally, I never want the Seahawks to be that bad again.
Wish I could you more stars. Absolutely correct. It’s the part time Hawk fans that have no historical memory that speak that way. I still remember our NFC Championship win going to our first SB. All us old time fans didn’t want to leave Seahawks Stadium. Decades of trying we finally got there, only to have the NFL steal our first win.
Tanking isn’t an option in the NFL, if for no other reason than the way contracts are structured.
See Rusty’s comment. Totally agree Mike. People forget the dead days of the 90s before Paul bought the team. 10 win season being bad is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion. I go back to 76. I never want to be like those other teams or like SJ just wrote about the Raiders. Only positive of those bad seasons we got a Tez and got to see an Arnold, a guy better than Arnold, play.
Well said Randall!
Thank you.
Another thought: take a page out of our own Super Bowl book. We didn’t win because of the QB, we won with a solid OL and a great running game. Why fight 32 other teams for an elite QB? Spend all that money in the trenches and settle for a QB that can be a game manager with some upside. And find an OC that can call a game suited to the talent on hand. If your OL sucks use misdirection, a variety of screens, three step drops, etc. Take advantage of the over aggressive pass rush.
We really did not have a solid OL. It amazes me how much everyone forgets that it was Russ escaping sacks, and Lynch running through tackles that made that OL look good. It was mediocre at best, and was more likely fairly well below average.
Does JS have the balls to move up for any QB? Answer is No. The next super star QB must be a 3-4 rounder or nothing with JS.
Does JS & his crew even have the ability to evaluate QB talent? Outside of signing Geno, it’s been a series of fails since the Russell pick. Lock, Howell, and I’d throw Flynn on the list too. And a few other weak late picks & UDFAs. He spouted off about Lock being a key part of the Russell trade. All a big nothing.
Respectfully. Lock had the best game a NY Giant QB has had in 10 years. He scored 5 TD's. Howell is still a unopened box filled with potential. Look at his season with the Commanders. He needs starter reps to get into his groove. It is known that John specifically keyed in on Mahones and Allen before they were drafted. So a case could be made that John is actually adept at spotting QB talent. Just sayin.
Fair enough, I can’t agree on Lock. He didn’t show enough and we let him go. That’s a fail on the talent decision for JS. Howell, I agree, hasn’t had a real chance yet, so we only have one horrible appearance with the offense in disarray plus rumors from inside the org. We’ll see - I hope the rumors are wrong and we already have a good young talent. But I’ll believe it when I see it. Pretty soon we’ll know if he cuts Geno and gives Sam a shot, or tries to sign another #1.
I have a feeling that we're going to have an offseason of big offensive turnover. There are too many contracts reaching decision points, a new coordinator, and a GM and HC looking to turn the page. Get ready for excitement and outrage.
Exactly.
Any cap savy minds here? I am not one. With all the other potential cuts and their related OTC dead money, will JS feel this is the right time for an extra $21M in dead money so we can play without DK?
Potentially cutting 3 or your top 4 receiver targets all at once. Bobo and an unknown rookie WR will work instead? Really? Our star rb is injury prone and can't be relied on to pick up the slack either.
Staton wrote a believable piece on why DK dead money is a big reason why he won't be cut. Staton also demonstrated that WR peer $30M extensions cost much less in the first several years than #30M/yr and provides a "kick the can down the road" type of cap management method.
McDonald seems to like DK, wanting to find ways to get him more touches to impact the game more.
Given these contributing factors, I'd be surprised if DK is traded this year unless dead money be maneuvered to an acceptable amount. Cap expert, explain how we can do it?
Just looking at OTC and it states that a post-June 1 trade would result in $13.8M dead money, rather than the $21M if we traded sooner. I'm not cap savvy or great at interpreting OTC's data, but it seems like this would suggest a better return to trade him for 2026 picks instead of getting something done pre-draft this offseason. I think DK will be on the roster heading into training camp, but will be holding out for an extension or trade prior to week one. It'll be fun to watch in all play out.
I didn't realize the June 1st designation can be for cuts AND trades. That could push $17-18M of top 5 cuts/trades dead money to 2026.
Made me wonder hope successful 2024 dead cap leaders were. Whoa! Lots of playoff teams had huge dead cap.
the highest dead money in 2024:
Denver Broncos: $85.21 million
New York Giants: $79.57 million
Minnesota Vikings: $69.83 million
Buffalo Bills: $68.47 million
Carolina Panthers: $68.28 million
Green Bay Packers: $65.53 million
Tennessee Titans: $62.89 million
Philadelphia Eagles: $61.95 million
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: $60.64 million
Bobo is good at short to medium fade routes and is a really good blocker. Has great hands and a big body he knows how to use. I don't see him as an NFL #3 simply due to lack of speed, but he has value for sure.
If you're looking for article ideas, a retrospective on prior draft 'trade-downs' would be of interest. What JS's history of success vs 'meh' payback from those maneuvers?
Thanks, love the work.
I agree on the soft schedule oppty. If Seattle can become a top 10 defense against a bottom 10 schedule, could be 11-12 wins. Only reason it might not win the division is that everyone in the division has a good schedule this year
We don't need to tank necessarily to get a top pick....we need to acquire the first pick of a team likely to be picking high. Let them stink it up, and we get their pick.
DK gone. Geno probably too. New look 'Hawks coming soon.
Yes. The more draft capital we acquire the more options to move up or get lucky with a high pick.
Metcalf 2024 Games 1-7: 35 REC / 638 yds / 18.2 YPC / 3 TD
Games 8-9: Injured, DNP
Games 11-17: 31 REC / 358 yds / 11.5 YPC / 2 TD
After Metcalf returned from injury, Ryan Grubb used him mainly as a decoy.
The Occam’s Razor conclusion for the back half of Metcalf’s 2024 season is (1) he played hurt and (2) the then-OC did not use him properly. To be fair, the latter may be related to the former.
As for DK, I agree with everything you say. But I have a big issue to add. Certainly his knucklehead penalties are costly on the field, but he goes farther by demanding that he’s not going to change… “that’s who I am”. That HAS TO BE A LOCKER ROOM CANCER. He’s hurting the team and is devoted to doing it more. His teammates have got to be infuriated by that attitude. He has to go. ADDITIONALLY BY SUBTRACTION.
Piling on a bit here: he can’t run a full short route tree. He is a one trick pony—go long. Our OL can’t protect long enough for long, slow developing plays to develop.
According to Mike Dugar, who spends a fair amount of time with players, Metcalf is anything but a locker room cancer.
Good piece on DK.
I have felt this way for awhile. Not that we need to trade him but that he is overrated.
My buddy calls him stonehands. Sure he is gifted with some extreme athleticism, but I don’t see him ever becoming a great pass catcher.
Having said that … I think he will still likely be a Seahawks next year.
Could he dip to $27M? Maybe still looking at around $30M, IMO
I just can’t decide. JS imo has been pretty good with getting players that have kept us competitive. Although, just being competitive is getting tired. I want playoffs and potential SB. Also, has MM really proven anything yet? Ok, our D looked better, but our O? Will his job be on the line if we have a bad season next year? Surely he’ll have a say on who we pick up in FA and draft.
Maybe we just need to do a clean sweep and cut off the deadwood and take a punt on a few young draftees to develop. This would be a boom or bust strategy, but at least it will be different. However, I agree with Stephen Pitell that fans would be forgetful with a building mentality and they’ll be impatient for success. But that is exactly where we’re at anyway, aren’t we?
Is it better to stay competitive and hope that things fall our way when it counts, or is it better to take a punt on a proper rebuild and cop a season or two of bruised fan ego? I’m not even sure that rebuilds are always that successful anyway. So, like I said, I just can’t decide.
Regarding DK, lets see what he can do with a good QB and a new OC before we trade him. There's no rule saying he has to be traded pre season. As far as tanking goes, how did that work out for drafting Ryan Leaf, De Marcus Russell, Rick Mirer, or many other busts.
Get cap space by trading Geno ( to Pete's Raiders) and cutting a bunch of over priced dead weight, both Fants, D.Jones, Tomlinson, P. Brown, and let Lockett retire with full honors and make him an assistant recievers coach.
There are some very interesting QBs available in the later rounds
Geno is a 500 QB. We need better.