The more time i spend looking at bits and pieces of stats & analysis, the more i find the concept of "O Line Rating" completely impossible. I.e What is a "good" OLine and what is a "bad" one? So i come down on the 'middling' vote but do understand why a significant majority go lower. Can you call the O Line in front of the Leagues #1 QB in Yards, #6 in Accuracy (of QB's to start 5 games) a bottom 10 unit? Not really, no. "But our Run game is awful and we can't run block", yes we do have the 6th worst total Rush Yds but equally we are =12th in YPC. Thus - Ups & Downs / Middling O Line.
In other news - so Adams & Cooper have been traded! For a grand total of a 3rd, 3rd, and day-3 junk swap that doesn't really matter/count. It's relevant because i hope people look and think hard about "DK trade" concepts. Being generous to DK, the age advantage and his physical nature advantage, whilst discounting the penalty & fumble problem to only look at yardage states, i think this sets his trade ceiling at a 3rd Rd pick. Is it worth losing what DK can provide for that? Personally i don't think so, when he plays well he's far above that value to the 'Hawks, and i'd rather gamble for now he can sort his sh*t out.... well.... unless... we used that 3rd.... to draft a QB.... out of Texas... called Quinn Ewers...
IMO … O-line relates to time to throw. Comparing Genos time to throw to other QBs around the league. That’s at least the metrics for pass block rankings that I see. But both Geno and Grubb know this is the case so they can maneuver protection and plays to still run a decent offense.
I think the interesting part of the DK debate is less about what draft comp we could get but if we should reallocate his $$$. is he worth $30M+ a year? Or Would you rather have say two decent to good guards?
I agree, interesting. I do think it is a little easier said than done, though. We'd have to find 2 guards for that money, first. Then, they would have to play like it, or better
Genos time to throw/pressure is 2.3 seconds. League average is 2.4 seconds. Our conversion rate of blitzs to sacks/hurries is a little below average but not worrying. But people keep saying our OLine is truly awful, and the eye test kind of agrees but the stats and analysis don't.
Is DK worth extending, and is DK worth trading are two different questions. I don't think he's worth extending at a Top10 we contract, but I also would not trade him.
I doubt this will come into play until the offseason, but I think that DK's value is greater than either Adams or Cooper, and would guess we could get a 2nd round pick for him. The rest of this season will weigh heavily upon his value, however, so who knows.
He's younger, but is he better? All aspects considered I'd say most teams would value Adams more than DK, and as such DKs trade ceiling is a 3rd. And I think he's worth more than that to the Hawks, taking trade talks off the table.
The Adams trade is a conditional 3rd or 2nd, if they go to the title game or he makes all pro. Something like that. Doesn’t change your point. That might have been the midseason trade available for DK. I might have taken it.
If DK turns his year around to be a legit All pro WR, yes his trade value would go up like Adam's. But at that point, why would we trade him? If he can do that, find that next level, let's keep him and do what we can to extend him!
But for me as neither Adams nor DK will be All Pro, and neither the Jets not Hawks will make the Championship round, the market value is a 3rd - something most of us agree is pretty meh.
I’m not all doom and gloom on the season yet. We’ve had some bad games, but we’ve also had some good ones. Even when we’ve played bad, somehow we’ve managed to still be in positions to win pretty late in those games we lost. I’d like to think we’ll improve and that the coaches and players will keep learning about each other to make that happen. Football’s a funny game. Anything could happen. My glass is still half full. Stay positive people. Go Hawks.
I agree, Dale. I don't understand how who we were under Pete somehow migrates over to now. I can understand how folks have a short fuse as concerns hoping for brighter results. I feel on firm ground expecting these new coaches have prepared for worst-case situations like now and will be direct dealing with how we fight our way back to the top. "Boo-Hoo/poor me" has nothing to do with this locker room. That room is filled with exceptional competitors who live for hard times and digging deep. Our Bench players are much more experienced than
expected so early and in such numbers. They understand how opposing players and coaches have found their weak points and exploited them. Subtle 'tells' have been exposed. We will start seeing our guys surprising our opponents, making them hesitate or get tentative. There's a new Sheriff in town. We'll be seeing improvement in Atlanta. Dominance is a ways off yet. I'm still seeing 11+.
Interesting to see the contrast between the survey results ( generally negative) and the comments we see here among what I might consider to be the hard core, or the faithful. I’m hopeful. I don’t think all the improvements we need are with the players, I think the coaching cadre needs to get better at what they do, fast.
And those of us more pessimistic aren't excited about thinking that way, so not wanting to comment negativity. At least that is how I'm thinking. I want to be wrong! C'mon Hawks, let's go.
The more time i spend looking at bits and pieces of stats & analysis, the more i find the concept of "O Line Rating" completely impossible. I.e What is a "good" OLine and what is a "bad" one? So i come down on the 'middling' vote but do understand why a significant majority go lower. Can you call the O Line in front of the Leagues #1 QB in Yards, #6 in Accuracy (of QB's to start 5 games) a bottom 10 unit? Not really, no. "But our Run game is awful and we can't run block", yes we do have the 6th worst total Rush Yds but equally we are =12th in YPC. Thus - Ups & Downs / Middling O Line.
In other news - so Adams & Cooper have been traded! For a grand total of a 3rd, 3rd, and day-3 junk swap that doesn't really matter/count. It's relevant because i hope people look and think hard about "DK trade" concepts. Being generous to DK, the age advantage and his physical nature advantage, whilst discounting the penalty & fumble problem to only look at yardage states, i think this sets his trade ceiling at a 3rd Rd pick. Is it worth losing what DK can provide for that? Personally i don't think so, when he plays well he's far above that value to the 'Hawks, and i'd rather gamble for now he can sort his sh*t out.... well.... unless... we used that 3rd.... to draft a QB.... out of Texas... called Quinn Ewers...
IMO … O-line relates to time to throw. Comparing Genos time to throw to other QBs around the league. That’s at least the metrics for pass block rankings that I see. But both Geno and Grubb know this is the case so they can maneuver protection and plays to still run a decent offense.
I think the interesting part of the DK debate is less about what draft comp we could get but if we should reallocate his $$$. is he worth $30M+ a year? Or Would you rather have say two decent to good guards?
Interesting debate, I think.
I agree, interesting. I do think it is a little easier said than done, though. We'd have to find 2 guards for that money, first. Then, they would have to play like it, or better
Genos time to throw/pressure is 2.3 seconds. League average is 2.4 seconds. Our conversion rate of blitzs to sacks/hurries is a little below average but not worrying. But people keep saying our OLine is truly awful, and the eye test kind of agrees but the stats and analysis don't.
Is DK worth extending, and is DK worth trading are two different questions. I don't think he's worth extending at a Top10 we contract, but I also would not trade him.
I doubt this will come into play until the offseason, but I think that DK's value is greater than either Adams or Cooper, and would guess we could get a 2nd round pick for him. The rest of this season will weigh heavily upon his value, however, so who knows.
It's gotta be more. He is significantly younger than borh those guys
BUT, I would say your 2nd rd guess seems like a good one to me
He's younger, but is he better? All aspects considered I'd say most teams would value Adams more than DK, and as such DKs trade ceiling is a 3rd. And I think he's worth more than that to the Hawks, taking trade talks off the table.
The Adams trade is a conditional 3rd or 2nd, if they go to the title game or he makes all pro. Something like that. Doesn’t change your point. That might have been the midseason trade available for DK. I might have taken it.
If DK turns his year around to be a legit All pro WR, yes his trade value would go up like Adam's. But at that point, why would we trade him? If he can do that, find that next level, let's keep him and do what we can to extend him!
But for me as neither Adams nor DK will be All Pro, and neither the Jets not Hawks will make the Championship round, the market value is a 3rd - something most of us agree is pretty meh.
I’m not all doom and gloom on the season yet. We’ve had some bad games, but we’ve also had some good ones. Even when we’ve played bad, somehow we’ve managed to still be in positions to win pretty late in those games we lost. I’d like to think we’ll improve and that the coaches and players will keep learning about each other to make that happen. Football’s a funny game. Anything could happen. My glass is still half full. Stay positive people. Go Hawks.
I agree, Dale. I don't understand how who we were under Pete somehow migrates over to now. I can understand how folks have a short fuse as concerns hoping for brighter results. I feel on firm ground expecting these new coaches have prepared for worst-case situations like now and will be direct dealing with how we fight our way back to the top. "Boo-Hoo/poor me" has nothing to do with this locker room. That room is filled with exceptional competitors who live for hard times and digging deep. Our Bench players are much more experienced than
expected so early and in such numbers. They understand how opposing players and coaches have found their weak points and exploited them. Subtle 'tells' have been exposed. We will start seeing our guys surprising our opponents, making them hesitate or get tentative. There's a new Sheriff in town. We'll be seeing improvement in Atlanta. Dominance is a ways off yet. I'm still seeing 11+.
We will beat the falcons. We will win 2 or 3 out of the next three go into the bye week hot and come out and whip the Niners in SF.
7-3 or 6-4 will be here soon (fingers crossed … gulp)
Go hawks.
I need some of this optimism.
Interesting to see the contrast between the survey results ( generally negative) and the comments we see here among what I might consider to be the hard core, or the faithful. I’m hopeful. I don’t think all the improvements we need are with the players, I think the coaching cadre needs to get better at what they do, fast.
Higher percentage of commenters are optimistic, it seems.
And those of us more pessimistic aren't excited about thinking that way, so not wanting to comment negativity. At least that is how I'm thinking. I want to be wrong! C'mon Hawks, let's go.