Great response to my Riq/Spoon comment! Sorry I missed this yesterday.
This is exactly what I love about the SSJ community. We can see different things, point out evidence, and learn from each other. It’s never personal and we don’t give/take points for being right/wrong.
I need to look at more of the All-22 on Riq and Spoon. I’m especially interested to see how they perform starting next week. The players have finished the first quarter of the season and get a mini bye. It’s a small reset. I’m curious to see if either or both improve. Hopefully both.
The risk with Riq is that he overthinks himself into knots, rather than getting into the flow. The risk with Spoon is that he’s at his ceiling in coverage.
The upside would be if Riq flows and maximizes his natural ability. Spoon could have a long career as do-it-all DB.
I won't know if Sam is choking under pressure until after I see him do it late in the season. Look for it, Sam. Cherish it. Don't run from it. Ever. You sought out this Measure. It's alive. Laugh with it. Take it to The Dance. But you lead, Partner.
“Where do all of you stand on Witherspoon and Woolen after Week 4:”
Spoon: I am concerned that he is too slight to take the pounding in the slot without getting hurt and too short to play on the outside. This is a “time will tell” thing. Agree that he has yet to justify his draft status
Woolen: An enigma. For 90% of any given game, a shutdown CB and one of the best defensive players on the field.* But too often subject to costly and inexplicable brain farts. I don’t expect him to be in a Seattle uni next season.
*FWIW, I don’t care about a CB’s run support or tackling if he is good in coverage. The better he is at the latter, the less I care about the former.
Spoon's physical limitations are what they are. But, the biggest difference I see between those two players is that Spoon can impact the game in other ways, if he's not having his best day in coverage.....Woolen cannot.
I'm not worried at all about Spoon. I want him on my team. Dude's a baller. He'll find ways to make plays.
I agree that Woolen may not be on the roster next year, unless he comes back on a sweetheart deal for the Seahawks.
“It took him seven years to get to Seattle, but that’s like the norm in baseball; we could just say that the Jets are rookie ball, the Panthers are single-A, the 49ers are double-A, and the Vikings are triple-A.
Darnold finally made it to the majors.”
Back in 2019, my son and I went to the (soon to be defunct) Diamond to see the Richmond Flying Squirrels take on the Erie SeaWolves (re the name, go figure). A big lefty pitching for Erie stood our guys on their ears for six innings. It didn’t take an MLB scout to know that this kid had something. His name was unusual and I filed it away for future reference. Anyway, his team called him up in 2020 but he struggled out of the bullpen. I kept following him through three years of mediocrity as a starter. Then, last year, Tarik Skubal broke through and won the CYA.
Hey, it does happen. Why not Sam Darnold? Not only did he look terrific yesterday, like an ace pitcher he showed his teammates that he could pick them up when the chips were down. There’s no way to quantify the value of that.
BTW, Skubal pitched for the Seattle University Redhawks from 2016-2018.
I was actually excited about the win yesterday. In years past poor calls, questionable refereeing ended up in an unfortunate loss. The message from Pete was we need to play good enough that poor calls/officiating ultimately doesn’t cost us the game—-WE FINALLY DID IT! Take those two questionable officiating decisions away and the score would have been massively different. A wins a win…and in this case despite thing beyond players control we still won..on a short week against a divisional opponent on the road.
We watched Officials end Darren Erickson's career as Coach for us, back in Boston a few decades ago. Until the L.O.B., I quit watching pro football because of it. So hell yes! Take the Officials out of deciding close games. If they are under threat, then make it so obvious it will never happen again. Even home team players want it fair. Beyond dispute.
RE: Coby's fumble. When sliding, the runner is considered down as soon as they start the slide and "give themselves up". EXCEPT in the case where the ball comes loose and they have not yet been contacted by a defender. In that case, it is a fumble. This from Gene Steratore when something similar happened with RGIII:
"We can pass judgment when he has to voluntarily give himself up and you'll get the initial yardage," Steratore explained. "[The quarterback] will come in with the whistle saying he was down because he voluntarily gave himself up, but also knowing that as he slides forward, prior to being contacted, if that ball were to happen to come loose, it's a fumble."
MacDonald did not argue this one at all on Seattle Sports. He called out both EJ and CB for 'terrible' ball security after their picks. Earnest was holding out the ball like a loaf of bread on his, so lucky that one didn't get knocked out too.
Oh god a rules things to talk about. Props for quoting the rulebook, more fans need to actually read it each year!
So... my issue with this case is that, if it was a QB running, and a defender close by, he'd be ruled sliding and safe. That's 100% what would happen. But by rule, that call would be wrong.
As correctly stated here, losing the ball in slide is a fumble and Coby fumbled it. End of. I just wish the NFL would more consistently apply to rules to QBs, or apply QB rules to everyone else. In the rules there are no distinctions between QBs and the rest, yet we know the NFL directs their referees to do this. (Be mad at the NFL, not the referees!!!!)
Until the slide is complete, thnk of Coby actually just being upright. Rotate him 75deg and then time the loss of control and it's an obvious fumble.
Honestly Coby picked a bad spot to slide. Play recognition there is to try going out towards the touchline to end up out of bounds, where if you then lose the ball in contact it goes dead and you keep possession. Or you slide way earlier. Never slide in congestion!!!!
At the point where Knight knocks the ball loose, there was no contact by Wilson or Froholdt. This screenshot doesn't show the ball, but you can see the impact that knocked the ball loose and how far away the Cardinals players are.
There is also a stipulation in the slide rule that if contact is imminent, then the slide rule doesn't apply. I think that could be argued here as well, making this just a typical fumble. Either way, I will be interested to see if the NFL issues a clarification of the rules that applied to this, or if they just let it be.
Regarding Bradford, I think we just have to trust that the coaches are giving us the best with what they have. I'm sure when Haynes is healthy, he'll be given an opportunity to show what he's got in practice, but he's never seized those opportunities before. Nothing has really changed since training camp except for the addition of Lemieux to the practice squad. Maybe Schneider finds another option to shake things up, but it seems unlikely to me that that person is already on the roster given how the offseason played out. We may need to just accept that Bradford is the best Seahawks RG this season.
What has anyone got against Witherspoon? Yea, he allowed a TD and some catches, but they were near perfect throws, and every CB gives up perfect passes thrown to a perfect catch. I prefer he stay at nickel corner most of the time, but he isn't a liability the way Woolen can be.
Agreed! I dont understand any notion implying he is a liability in coverage. The TD play by Harrison was the ultimate display of “a game of inches”. Witherspoon was sticky on that play but came up a knuckle shy of a PD. Same with the underthrow/“back shoulder” play. Its borderline indefensible. I am not concerned about Witherspoon and still anticipate him having a high level career barring injury.
I am definitely a huge Devon Witherspoon fan. Just to clarify my points, which you may not be referring to but I'll do it anyway, is that there's some school of thought that physically he'll always be at some disadvantage to some receivers. That's just the way it is. And that I don't think he's been elite yet, which as one of the highest-drafted cornerbacks in NFL history, could be construed as a shutdown type of player with a relatively high rate of turnovers forced. As a huge Witherspoon fan with an objective Seahawks newsletter, I can't in good conscience call him elite or shutdown. In his career he's been the closest defender on 10 touchdowns and he's only intercepted one pass. When Sherman was an All-Pro corner, we praised him for allowing no touchdowns and intercepting a ton of passes.
If we now excuse Witherspoon for the same stats, we tarnish Sherman's accomplishments.
Witherspoon has a ways to go to become the great cornerback he is capable of becoming. I think he has the right attitude to get there. At this point, Josh Jobe has been better. And in no way am I saying this because it means anything other than "oh wow, really?" but Derion Kendrick has more INTs in 2 games with Seattle than Witherspoon has in his career. That's just a crazy fact- - witherspoon is a lot better than kendrick -- but as Seattle's "best" cornerback, yeah he should be better in year 3. And I'm worried about the potential for injuries.
What is amazing is everyone (nat'l media, not Joes) are talking about Darnold being a game manager or a good serviceable QB, not noticing his efficiency and the number of explosive plays he is making. Sure he went 18-26, but he had 3 20+ pass plays and averaged over 9 YPA. He is 28th in sack yards lost, and I know that's not always a QBs fault, but he is getting rid of the ball safely instead of taking a sack. My biggest knock on Geno was his not getting rid of the ball safely, either trying to force it or hanging on to it too long. Not coincidently he is currently 3rd in sack yards lost AND interceptions.
I am really happy with Darnolds play, its been better than I would think is necessary for the Hawks to win.
And did anyone catch the post game interview with Spoon? My takeaway from that sound bite was how the team works together lifting each other up, and it wasn't just platitudes, it felt like an actual commitment to each other, and when a team seems to all buy in, those intangibles seem to break the right way in close games. If you want to see a team on the opposite side of all in, watch the Dolphins players on both sides of the ball. No one celebrates a teammate after a good play, they just stand around and head back to the huddle. We have the offense celebrating the defense and vice versa. MM has this team bought in, and that can only help.
I'm very optimistic for this season as of right now.
I looked through espn stats...SEA well represented. Every category except sacks we had at least one in the top five in the league. And we have three in the top forty there. This feels like a good start.
What to do at right guard? I'd argue Lucas isn't showering himself with glory either. But I would say this: Bradford was facing Calais Campbell and that's a handful for anyone.
And, Bradford/Lucas/Walker issues aside, we did run for 155 which I'd have KILLED for last year. And while Darnold was sacked twice, he had time (many times) to make his throw. Not trying to say we don't have flaws, but man oh man are we better than last year, almost hate to complain
I was watching a post game podcast and one of the hosts stated Bradford had the second highest run block score for the game. I would not have guessed that.
Paradoxically there did seem to be more holes opening to the right than the left, although in zone blocking schemes it's not always due to the guy lined up where the hole ended up being.
Perception is such a funny thing in sports, especially when it comes to the QB position.
Not sure why there is endless comparisons between the former QB and the current one. But it’s all fun. I am thrilled at the QB play so far this year. This is the talent that SD has. But what the last 5 years should show very clearly to football fans is: The people around a QB matter, they matter a lot. We saw this with Geno Smith. We saw this with Sam Darnold. And now we are seeing it with Daniel Jones.
The QB is not a special elixir. They need good coaching and players around them.
Comparing what Geno Smith had to deal with in 2024 to what the current offense is around the QB is not ... not very similar at all? In week 4 last year the Hawks went on the road to Detroit and asked Geno to throw the ball 56 times! If you put Darnold in that situation what does he look like?
A more similar comparison would be the Hawks game plan in 2024 in Arizona and this years game. Lets take a look:
Geno: 2024 at Arizona: 24/30 (80% comp rate) for 233, 1 TD/0 Int and a passer rating of 110 (1 fumble not lost)
Hawks win 30-18
Darnold: 2025 at Arizona: 18/26 (70%) for 242 yards, 1 TD/ 0 Int and a passer rating of 111 (1 fumble not lost)
Hawks win 23-20
The 2 QBs played almost the exact same game! Perception is a hilarious thing in sports fandom.
Also, the reason Sam Darnold is what I would consider to be a tier 3 QB prior to the season is not because of his best games. When things are good around him he is very good. For example, if you put the best QBs in for the Seahawks last night (Allen, Lamar, Mahomes) I don't think they change the game that much. I think that the difference between the best QBs and a guy like SD becomes smaller and maybe not even discernible when the play around the QB is really good. This difference, however, magnifies when the play around the QB is worse.
This is not meant to be a knock on Darnold. It is just to say, these 2025 comparisons to 2024 are just wild. The QBs are not in remotely the same situations. Sam Darnold, by design, is not asked to do what Geno Smith was asked to do in 2024 and not even most QBs around the league are asked to do on a week in and week out basis.
I have been a Sam Darnold believer since prior to 2024. And he is off to the start that I would expect. Very sharp because this is his talent level. He is this good. This is not a fluke.
But the biggest thing to me is not Darnold's play. It is the two main problems after the 2024 season:
1) Offensive Coordinator
2) Offensive Line
So far, to me, these two questions are being answered in a very positive way (and health helps). These two questions breaking the Seahawks way have led for a QB to shine. But there are a lot of QBs that would shine for the Seahawks including my number 2 option this offseason Daniel Jones.
If you think people were hard on SD prior to this season, you should check out what they were saying about Jones, including a ton of this fan base.
Lastly, this should prove the Seahawks plan. Do not overpay at the QB position (unless it is Mahomes/Allen/Lamar). Stick to this plan. Remain cheap relative to the league at QB and focus on the O-line first. Fortunately or unfortunately, JSN is so freakin' good that we will run into a price issue shortly.
But, the QB position it appears has always and will always get too much blame in bad times and too much credit in good times.
Stay yourself SD, keep ballin, Kubiak keep calling the game plans this way and...
You also been doing the “endless comparisons”. So seems odd to start with that. Completely correct about perception which was in this article and SJ responded to you as well.
People have compared and ranked quarterbacks since the beginning of football. It happened with Zorn to Krieg, it happened when Hasselbeck was battling against Jon Kitna, it happened when Hasselbeck and Wilson didn't get any consideration for MVP, it happened with Russ to Geno, it is happening with Geno to Darnold, and it will happen with Darnold to Milroe or whoever the next guy is.
If it seems unmanageable to read fans compare Darnold to Geno, it could be a long season. This is what people have been doing for 100 years.
And if people disagree with our opinions of comparing QBs, it’s acceptable to just agree to disagree without trying to put the other person down for not knowing ball or something.
Mike McD, this doesn’t really make sense. If I’ve got this right, you’re arguing that you can’t really compare QB’s because of the players around them. Then you go ahead and compare QB’s between seasons - who have different players around them. Not sure what you’re trying to say.
I think most people (including me) make comparisons on what they see. As I’ve stated many times before, I’m not a huge stats fan. They’re a guide and don’t always give you the intangibles, and they can be presented in ways to fit the narrative one wants. As the saying goes: ‘there’s lies, damn lies and statistics’.
What my eyes tell me is that Darnold throws very accurately, he moves through his options smoothly, he doesn’t panic under pressure and his body language and attitude has, so far, shown positivity and encouragement to his team mates.
Whereas, Geno was not consistent with his accuracy (& that’s being generous IMO), he had trouble progressing from his first option (& was too slow when he did), he panicked under pressure and his body language and perceived attitude when things weren’t going his way (i.e. what i observed on tv) was atrocious.
These observations show me that we are in a much better position, with a much better QB than last season.
Good point … I should clarify. If one is to make comparisons from 2024 Seahawks to 2025 Seahawks they should adjust for the surroundings like Offensive coordinator and offensive line.
True, but these adjustments don't apply to Geno's attitude, his body language, his lack of *visible leadership. Again, from what the eyes saw, when things didn't go his way, he gave dirty looks to his teammates and sulked on the bench...by himself. None of his other teammates sat near him - who would want to??
I think leadership tends to be in the eye of the beholder. If he wins? Then he is Michael Jordan competitive and “holds his teammates accountable” if the team around him plays bad? He’s a jerk that is too aggressive with his teammates.
Was he wrong to ask for his teammates to play at a high level? Like he did? And perform under pressure?
He would be a guy I would want to play for. I know guys like that. Pete and Tom Brady know guys like that.
True, eye of the beholder. All I know is what my eyes showed me - Im not part of the clubhouse, so I have no idea how the guys really felt. I do recall KJW rolling his eyes when he was asked if Geno was a leader, and he DID know the guys. I also remember him doing a post-game interview after the game where DK screwed up his routes, and Geno said, tongue-in-cheek something to the effect of, yeah it's all my fault. It was a sarcastic comment, when everyone in the room knew he was not being sincere. So Seattle passive-aggressive. So yes, from these incidents plus my own eyeballs showing me who he is during games, I can assume he is not a leader of men.
KJ Wright is a guy who I really like but is also dead wrong often. When you look up his track record.
I can recall 99% of Geno’s post game interviews taking blame for a team that he had to carry.
Tom Brady is arguably the best QB and leader of football players. He is on the record saying he would not touch Darnold and threw his weight behind Geno.
Should KJ Wrights opinion be weighted heavier than Tom Brady?
Tom may or may not be right. You can look at Elway and countless other great players that aren’t great at GMing
Also, Michael Jordon and Kobe Bryant famously were harsh on their teammates. Jordan punched Steve Kerr. Kobe was shunned by the lakers. Are they not leaders? Why or why not?
Great response to my Riq/Spoon comment! Sorry I missed this yesterday.
This is exactly what I love about the SSJ community. We can see different things, point out evidence, and learn from each other. It’s never personal and we don’t give/take points for being right/wrong.
I need to look at more of the All-22 on Riq and Spoon. I’m especially interested to see how they perform starting next week. The players have finished the first quarter of the season and get a mini bye. It’s a small reset. I’m curious to see if either or both improve. Hopefully both.
The risk with Riq is that he overthinks himself into knots, rather than getting into the flow. The risk with Spoon is that he’s at his ceiling in coverage.
The upside would be if Riq flows and maximizes his natural ability. Spoon could have a long career as do-it-all DB.
I’m hoping for that upside direction!
I won't know if Sam is choking under pressure until after I see him do it late in the season. Look for it, Sam. Cherish it. Don't run from it. Ever. You sought out this Measure. It's alive. Laugh with it. Take it to The Dance. But you lead, Partner.
Witherspoon? Next man up. Bradford? Next Cabeldue up (or slide over Jalen and plug in Olu)...worth a shot right?
The QB School finally did a review of Sam. Check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JBUTaEQc0I
“Where do all of you stand on Witherspoon and Woolen after Week 4:”
Spoon: I am concerned that he is too slight to take the pounding in the slot without getting hurt and too short to play on the outside. This is a “time will tell” thing. Agree that he has yet to justify his draft status
Woolen: An enigma. For 90% of any given game, a shutdown CB and one of the best defensive players on the field.* But too often subject to costly and inexplicable brain farts. I don’t expect him to be in a Seattle uni next season.
*FWIW, I don’t care about a CB’s run support or tackling if he is good in coverage. The better he is at the latter, the less I care about the former.
Spoon's physical limitations are what they are. But, the biggest difference I see between those two players is that Spoon can impact the game in other ways, if he's not having his best day in coverage.....Woolen cannot.
I'm not worried at all about Spoon. I want him on my team. Dude's a baller. He'll find ways to make plays.
I agree that Woolen may not be on the roster next year, unless he comes back on a sweetheart deal for the Seahawks.
“It took him seven years to get to Seattle, but that’s like the norm in baseball; we could just say that the Jets are rookie ball, the Panthers are single-A, the 49ers are double-A, and the Vikings are triple-A.
Darnold finally made it to the majors.”
Back in 2019, my son and I went to the (soon to be defunct) Diamond to see the Richmond Flying Squirrels take on the Erie SeaWolves (re the name, go figure). A big lefty pitching for Erie stood our guys on their ears for six innings. It didn’t take an MLB scout to know that this kid had something. His name was unusual and I filed it away for future reference. Anyway, his team called him up in 2020 but he struggled out of the bullpen. I kept following him through three years of mediocrity as a starter. Then, last year, Tarik Skubal broke through and won the CYA.
Hey, it does happen. Why not Sam Darnold? Not only did he look terrific yesterday, like an ace pitcher he showed his teammates that he could pick them up when the chips were down. There’s no way to quantify the value of that.
BTW, Skubal pitched for the Seattle University Redhawks from 2016-2018.
““Matt Hasselbeck with a stronger arm”.
*Sorry I forgot who, shout yourself out”
Me! “Matt Hasselbeck with a fastball.”
I was actually excited about the win yesterday. In years past poor calls, questionable refereeing ended up in an unfortunate loss. The message from Pete was we need to play good enough that poor calls/officiating ultimately doesn’t cost us the game—-WE FINALLY DID IT! Take those two questionable officiating decisions away and the score would have been massively different. A wins a win…and in this case despite thing beyond players control we still won..on a short week against a divisional opponent on the road.
We watched Officials end Darren Erickson's career as Coach for us, back in Boston a few decades ago. Until the L.O.B., I quit watching pro football because of it. So hell yes! Take the Officials out of deciding close games. If they are under threat, then make it so obvious it will never happen again. Even home team players want it fair. Beyond dispute.
RE: Coby's fumble. When sliding, the runner is considered down as soon as they start the slide and "give themselves up". EXCEPT in the case where the ball comes loose and they have not yet been contacted by a defender. In that case, it is a fumble. This from Gene Steratore when something similar happened with RGIII:
"We can pass judgment when he has to voluntarily give himself up and you'll get the initial yardage," Steratore explained. "[The quarterback] will come in with the whistle saying he was down because he voluntarily gave himself up, but also knowing that as he slides forward, prior to being contacted, if that ball were to happen to come loose, it's a fumble."
https://www.commanders.com/news/confusion-remains-on-slide-dive-rule-11284997
The relevant rule here is Rule 3, Section 2, Note 2:
"In the field of play, if a catch or interception has been completed, and the ball comes loose before the player is down by contact, it is a fumble, "
https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-rulebook/
MacDonald did not argue this one at all on Seattle Sports. He called out both EJ and CB for 'terrible' ball security after their picks. Earnest was holding out the ball like a loaf of bread on his, so lucky that one didn't get knocked out too.
Oh god a rules things to talk about. Props for quoting the rulebook, more fans need to actually read it each year!
So... my issue with this case is that, if it was a QB running, and a defender close by, he'd be ruled sliding and safe. That's 100% what would happen. But by rule, that call would be wrong.
As correctly stated here, losing the ball in slide is a fumble and Coby fumbled it. End of. I just wish the NFL would more consistently apply to rules to QBs, or apply QB rules to everyone else. In the rules there are no distinctions between QBs and the rest, yet we know the NFL directs their referees to do this. (Be mad at the NFL, not the referees!!!!)
Until the slide is complete, thnk of Coby actually just being upright. Rotate him 75deg and then time the loss of control and it's an obvious fumble.
Honestly Coby picked a bad spot to slide. Play recognition there is to try going out towards the touchline to end up out of bounds, where if you then lose the ball in contact it goes dead and you keep possession. Or you slide way earlier. Never slide in congestion!!!!
Good insights. I was only of the mind that he was touched down by a Cardinals player.
At the point where Knight knocks the ball loose, there was no contact by Wilson or Froholdt. This screenshot doesn't show the ball, but you can see the impact that knocked the ball loose and how far away the Cardinals players are.
https://ibb.co/M58Dw7SC
FWIW, I thought that the ball was out. Tough break and a matter of inches, but to me it wasn’t a hard call. JSN’s penalty, on the other hand…
hahaha...the whole world knows what JSN thought about it...
Funny that the NFL can't give us the right angle.
There is also a stipulation in the slide rule that if contact is imminent, then the slide rule doesn't apply. I think that could be argued here as well, making this just a typical fumble. Either way, I will be interested to see if the NFL issues a clarification of the rules that applied to this, or if they just let it be.
Regarding Bradford, I think we just have to trust that the coaches are giving us the best with what they have. I'm sure when Haynes is healthy, he'll be given an opportunity to show what he's got in practice, but he's never seized those opportunities before. Nothing has really changed since training camp except for the addition of Lemieux to the practice squad. Maybe Schneider finds another option to shake things up, but it seems unlikely to me that that person is already on the roster given how the offseason played out. We may need to just accept that Bradford is the best Seahawks RG this season.
No sense in making it harder on the kid. He knows.
At least this year we’re only worried about one OLine position…
Big time comment, Grant, makes a huge difference compared to last year.
I agree
What has anyone got against Witherspoon? Yea, he allowed a TD and some catches, but they were near perfect throws, and every CB gives up perfect passes thrown to a perfect catch. I prefer he stay at nickel corner most of the time, but he isn't a liability the way Woolen can be.
Agreed! I dont understand any notion implying he is a liability in coverage. The TD play by Harrison was the ultimate display of “a game of inches”. Witherspoon was sticky on that play but came up a knuckle shy of a PD. Same with the underthrow/“back shoulder” play. Its borderline indefensible. I am not concerned about Witherspoon and still anticipate him having a high level career barring injury.
I am definitely a huge Devon Witherspoon fan. Just to clarify my points, which you may not be referring to but I'll do it anyway, is that there's some school of thought that physically he'll always be at some disadvantage to some receivers. That's just the way it is. And that I don't think he's been elite yet, which as one of the highest-drafted cornerbacks in NFL history, could be construed as a shutdown type of player with a relatively high rate of turnovers forced. As a huge Witherspoon fan with an objective Seahawks newsletter, I can't in good conscience call him elite or shutdown. In his career he's been the closest defender on 10 touchdowns and he's only intercepted one pass. When Sherman was an All-Pro corner, we praised him for allowing no touchdowns and intercepting a ton of passes.
If we now excuse Witherspoon for the same stats, we tarnish Sherman's accomplishments.
Witherspoon has a ways to go to become the great cornerback he is capable of becoming. I think he has the right attitude to get there. At this point, Josh Jobe has been better. And in no way am I saying this because it means anything other than "oh wow, really?" but Derion Kendrick has more INTs in 2 games with Seattle than Witherspoon has in his career. That's just a crazy fact- - witherspoon is a lot better than kendrick -- but as Seattle's "best" cornerback, yeah he should be better in year 3. And I'm worried about the potential for injuries.
What is amazing is everyone (nat'l media, not Joes) are talking about Darnold being a game manager or a good serviceable QB, not noticing his efficiency and the number of explosive plays he is making. Sure he went 18-26, but he had 3 20+ pass plays and averaged over 9 YPA. He is 28th in sack yards lost, and I know that's not always a QBs fault, but he is getting rid of the ball safely instead of taking a sack. My biggest knock on Geno was his not getting rid of the ball safely, either trying to force it or hanging on to it too long. Not coincidently he is currently 3rd in sack yards lost AND interceptions.
I am really happy with Darnolds play, its been better than I would think is necessary for the Hawks to win.
And did anyone catch the post game interview with Spoon? My takeaway from that sound bite was how the team works together lifting each other up, and it wasn't just platitudes, it felt like an actual commitment to each other, and when a team seems to all buy in, those intangibles seem to break the right way in close games. If you want to see a team on the opposite side of all in, watch the Dolphins players on both sides of the ball. No one celebrates a teammate after a good play, they just stand around and head back to the huddle. We have the offense celebrating the defense and vice versa. MM has this team bought in, and that can only help.
I'm very optimistic for this season as of right now.
I looked through espn stats...SEA well represented. Every category except sacks we had at least one in the top five in the league. And we have three in the top forty there. This feels like a good start.
I now realize that included am extra game...but still was cool to dream!
There might be another reason Spoon was off. He hasn’t played in two weeks and is overcoming an injury.
Exactly.
That's a piece of it for sure I think.
What to do at right guard? I'd argue Lucas isn't showering himself with glory either. But I would say this: Bradford was facing Calais Campbell and that's a handful for anyone.
And, Bradford/Lucas/Walker issues aside, we did run for 155 which I'd have KILLED for last year. And while Darnold was sacked twice, he had time (many times) to make his throw. Not trying to say we don't have flaws, but man oh man are we better than last year, almost hate to complain
No some bad tape for Lucas.
I was watching a post game podcast and one of the hosts stated Bradford had the second highest run block score for the game. I would not have guessed that.
Paradoxically there did seem to be more holes opening to the right than the left, although in zone blocking schemes it's not always due to the guy lined up where the hole ended up being.
I thought Abe would dominate this year. He hasn't. He's been solid enough, but not the animal I thought he'd be. Maybe it will yet come.
Perception is such a funny thing in sports, especially when it comes to the QB position.
Not sure why there is endless comparisons between the former QB and the current one. But it’s all fun. I am thrilled at the QB play so far this year. This is the talent that SD has. But what the last 5 years should show very clearly to football fans is: The people around a QB matter, they matter a lot. We saw this with Geno Smith. We saw this with Sam Darnold. And now we are seeing it with Daniel Jones.
The QB is not a special elixir. They need good coaching and players around them.
Comparing what Geno Smith had to deal with in 2024 to what the current offense is around the QB is not ... not very similar at all? In week 4 last year the Hawks went on the road to Detroit and asked Geno to throw the ball 56 times! If you put Darnold in that situation what does he look like?
A more similar comparison would be the Hawks game plan in 2024 in Arizona and this years game. Lets take a look:
Geno: 2024 at Arizona: 24/30 (80% comp rate) for 233, 1 TD/0 Int and a passer rating of 110 (1 fumble not lost)
Hawks win 30-18
Darnold: 2025 at Arizona: 18/26 (70%) for 242 yards, 1 TD/ 0 Int and a passer rating of 111 (1 fumble not lost)
Hawks win 23-20
The 2 QBs played almost the exact same game! Perception is a hilarious thing in sports fandom.
Also, the reason Sam Darnold is what I would consider to be a tier 3 QB prior to the season is not because of his best games. When things are good around him he is very good. For example, if you put the best QBs in for the Seahawks last night (Allen, Lamar, Mahomes) I don't think they change the game that much. I think that the difference between the best QBs and a guy like SD becomes smaller and maybe not even discernible when the play around the QB is really good. This difference, however, magnifies when the play around the QB is worse.
This is not meant to be a knock on Darnold. It is just to say, these 2025 comparisons to 2024 are just wild. The QBs are not in remotely the same situations. Sam Darnold, by design, is not asked to do what Geno Smith was asked to do in 2024 and not even most QBs around the league are asked to do on a week in and week out basis.
I have been a Sam Darnold believer since prior to 2024. And he is off to the start that I would expect. Very sharp because this is his talent level. He is this good. This is not a fluke.
But the biggest thing to me is not Darnold's play. It is the two main problems after the 2024 season:
1) Offensive Coordinator
2) Offensive Line
So far, to me, these two questions are being answered in a very positive way (and health helps). These two questions breaking the Seahawks way have led for a QB to shine. But there are a lot of QBs that would shine for the Seahawks including my number 2 option this offseason Daniel Jones.
If you think people were hard on SD prior to this season, you should check out what they were saying about Jones, including a ton of this fan base.
Lastly, this should prove the Seahawks plan. Do not overpay at the QB position (unless it is Mahomes/Allen/Lamar). Stick to this plan. Remain cheap relative to the league at QB and focus on the O-line first. Fortunately or unfortunately, JSN is so freakin' good that we will run into a price issue shortly.
But, the QB position it appears has always and will always get too much blame in bad times and too much credit in good times.
Stay yourself SD, keep ballin, Kubiak keep calling the game plans this way and...
Go Hawks, Great Win, Keep Stacking!
You also been doing the “endless comparisons”. So seems odd to start with that. Completely correct about perception which was in this article and SJ responded to you as well.
Can you point to a time this season where I have unprompted compared this QB to our prior QB?
People have compared and ranked quarterbacks since the beginning of football. It happened with Zorn to Krieg, it happened when Hasselbeck was battling against Jon Kitna, it happened when Hasselbeck and Wilson didn't get any consideration for MVP, it happened with Russ to Geno, it is happening with Geno to Darnold, and it will happen with Darnold to Milroe or whoever the next guy is.
If it seems unmanageable to read fans compare Darnold to Geno, it could be a long season. This is what people have been doing for 100 years.
Like I said “it’s all in fun”
Just pointing out that other players matter. How many people would put Daniel Jones where he is? Why? What changed?
But yeah … QB comparisons are all fun. But also lead to misrepresentations of talent like Sam Darnold, Daniel jones and Geno
And if people disagree with our opinions of comparing QBs, it’s acceptable to just agree to disagree without trying to put the other person down for not knowing ball or something.
*I agree … all for that.
Mike McD, this doesn’t really make sense. If I’ve got this right, you’re arguing that you can’t really compare QB’s because of the players around them. Then you go ahead and compare QB’s between seasons - who have different players around them. Not sure what you’re trying to say.
I think most people (including me) make comparisons on what they see. As I’ve stated many times before, I’m not a huge stats fan. They’re a guide and don’t always give you the intangibles, and they can be presented in ways to fit the narrative one wants. As the saying goes: ‘there’s lies, damn lies and statistics’.
What my eyes tell me is that Darnold throws very accurately, he moves through his options smoothly, he doesn’t panic under pressure and his body language and attitude has, so far, shown positivity and encouragement to his team mates.
Whereas, Geno was not consistent with his accuracy (& that’s being generous IMO), he had trouble progressing from his first option (& was too slow when he did), he panicked under pressure and his body language and perceived attitude when things weren’t going his way (i.e. what i observed on tv) was atrocious.
These observations show me that we are in a much better position, with a much better QB than last season.
A much better QB???
Oohhhhhh K
Everyone is entitled to their opinions 👍🏼
Good point … I should clarify. If one is to make comparisons from 2024 Seahawks to 2025 Seahawks they should adjust for the surroundings like Offensive coordinator and offensive line.
True, but these adjustments don't apply to Geno's attitude, his body language, his lack of *visible leadership. Again, from what the eyes saw, when things didn't go his way, he gave dirty looks to his teammates and sulked on the bench...by himself. None of his other teammates sat near him - who would want to??
We also know that legendary Head Coach Pete Carrol and Tom Brady would want to be with him and support him as a leader.
There is also this
https://www.si.com/nfl/raiders/seattle-seahawks-las-vegas-pete-carroll-geno-smith
https://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nfl/seattle-seahawks/article293100319.html
I think leadership tends to be in the eye of the beholder. If he wins? Then he is Michael Jordan competitive and “holds his teammates accountable” if the team around him plays bad? He’s a jerk that is too aggressive with his teammates.
Was he wrong to ask for his teammates to play at a high level? Like he did? And perform under pressure?
He would be a guy I would want to play for. I know guys like that. Pete and Tom Brady know guys like that.
True, eye of the beholder. All I know is what my eyes showed me - Im not part of the clubhouse, so I have no idea how the guys really felt. I do recall KJW rolling his eyes when he was asked if Geno was a leader, and he DID know the guys. I also remember him doing a post-game interview after the game where DK screwed up his routes, and Geno said, tongue-in-cheek something to the effect of, yeah it's all my fault. It was a sarcastic comment, when everyone in the room knew he was not being sincere. So Seattle passive-aggressive. So yes, from these incidents plus my own eyeballs showing me who he is during games, I can assume he is not a leader of men.
KJ Wright is a guy who I really like but is also dead wrong often. When you look up his track record.
I can recall 99% of Geno’s post game interviews taking blame for a team that he had to carry.
Tom Brady is arguably the best QB and leader of football players. He is on the record saying he would not touch Darnold and threw his weight behind Geno.
Should KJ Wrights opinion be weighted heavier than Tom Brady?
Tom may or may not be right. You can look at Elway and countless other great players that aren’t great at GMing
Also, Michael Jordon and Kobe Bryant famously were harsh on their teammates. Jordan punched Steve Kerr. Kobe was shunned by the lakers. Are they not leaders? Why or why not?