Said it before re: Haynes. Yes “high” pick and yet was third ranked OG. Taken as 3rd OG. Was seen by a lot of people has being good. Did well in respected Senior Bowl. But more critical, of the top 10 IOL of last year. Only 3 had any significant playing time and 2 were first rounders. Only the whiners hit on late pick player. Of IOL. Only 1 hit in his rookie season. You posted it took Fries 3 seasons. Years ago we had Glowinski. Took him a few seasons. Pocic. Sorry just don’t get the comments that our 3rd rounder was a bad pick when no one else hit on last year either.
I think the grades are a fair reflection. JS didn't get desparate, and the additions were very much thought out players that fit what we need & are all on team friendly deals. The trade outs were good too.
The Geno to Raiders move of course is the big one. Raiders clearly wanted Stafford first, so quite how JS turned their second (or even third choice) into a 3rd i don't know. Smart to go to them with DK&Geno for Crosby to spark a conversation, probably catching them off guard and peaking Carroll into action"Oh, Geno's actually available?! Let's get a deal done then yes!" JS just needs to finish the smooth work by drafting a QB.
Kupp continues to intrigue. Value wise we did pretty well, on par with the market, and avoiding paying him a bonus for reputation. Like with all moves we'll only know whether they were right or not in time, so until we see quite how he's used the B grading feels pretty fair.
Anyway, most of us are roughly on the same pages. Other teams will steal headlines and buzz, but JS i think has sneakily had one of the better off-seasons thus far. I'm excited for the Draft where we have capital in the right places, and a real ability to go BPA again on Day 1 where we could really bag a blue chipper without doing much (Campbell at LB, Starks/Emanwori/Barron at DB as examples)
I love DK on a rookie contract. Even the second was fine. But nothing I've seen from his public persona (which admittedly may not reflect who he truly is) speaks of the type of person willing to do the grinding and extra detail work it will take to justify his newest compensation. By no means do I think his stats will objectively "suck," but there's no reason to think he'll be a league leader in catches/yards/TDs next year (or ever) based on his past.
I recall an article on FG (maybe elsewhere?) a few years back that looked at DK's pedestrian rate of winning contested catches and his unexpectedly low separation numbers: it was both eye-opening and stupifying to see how comparatively bad he is at those critical skills. To be a top 5 WR you can't make those skills lower priorities than how you look in a tight t-shirt. And I don't see how someone can justify a top 5 contract without top 5 production.
I know some say "but he's such a key decoy - they need to keep him or JSN/etc. are screwed." To be clear: if you need a $30 million decoy to free up your productive WRs there's a serious problem with your offensive scheme. And hey, look at that: new scheme unlocked for 2025.
I fully expect DK to keep relying on his raw physical ability (to decent effect for at least a couple more years) and downplaying his penalties, drops, low contested catch rate, etc. as fan/media concern about nothing. Like a lot of really physically gifted players, though, he isn't self-aware enough to realize that those gifts are (a) on a [rapidly approaching] timeline and (b) not so much better than his NFL peers to get him to where he thinks he already is.
It would be fascinating to live in a world where players could have the athleticism of their 20s and the self-awareness that (hopefully) comes with age/experience: I cannot even imagine what someone like DK could accomplish in that scenario.
"It would be fascinating to live in a world where players could have the athleticism of their 20s and the self-awareness that (hopefully) comes with age/experience"
No doubt. It's a crying shame that the human brain isn't fully developed until your late 20's, when your body is at the end of its' peak. DK can't look like an Adonnis eating candy 3 meals a day when he's my age, I assure you.
I would say you may possibly describing the world we do live in, and JSN is one example of the players you long for. In fact, there are many players who recognize the weaknesses in their game and work on them or around them. That has to show some amount of self-awareness. Bobo is another example: a dude that knows he isn't NFL fast, but he uses his other skills to more than compensate.
Not trying to argue or contradict you, though. I agree that it is a shame that too many of the top uber-talented guys have had their ego over-fed for so long that their perspectives have blind spots. It is refreshing to see and root for the ones that have the appropriate level of humility that allows them to be self-aware enough to be great. I always had to respect Jerry Rice for that, even though Largent was our guy.
I know its easy to pick apart things you don't like about players, but I never understood DKs lack of restraint. You are supposed to be a grown ass man. You are getting paid a lot of money to play a game, and your teammates are counting on you. I can only describe it as selfish, or generously as childish.
Is he a gifted, talented player? Yes
Is he a liability when DBs know they can get in his head? Also, yes.
I'm with Mike Brophy on this; DK can be a lid case for someone else. I was getting tired of his mental breakdowns on the field, which usually followed him dropping passes he should have caught.
Will his talent be tough to replace? Probably. But hell, I can run fast and drop passes too. And I don't make shit for pay compared to DK.
(And full disclaimer, I COULD run fast back when I was his age. Now, not so much)
Schneider’s #1 priority for the offseason was “fix the OL”. So far, has he? See “Chicago Bears” if you want to see what might have been.
Can any rookie be counted on to fix our OL in his first year?
No.
So, we are going to struggle on “O” and be fairly easy to stop. Gonna all be on the shoulders of the D, too much so to get past the early playoff rounds. Playoffs are possible given our patsy schedule, which we have wasted by still believing things will be better while still with a #30 or worse OL
Fair enough, but I disagree with a couple of things. I think (hope) that Darnold may well be an upgrade. Time will tell. Also, not every other team was looking for a QB, so saying the whole league agrees is patently false. And PC has always been bias with Geno (overly so OMO).
Also, I think both Geno and DK were bad for team dynamics. Geno’s poor body language and DK’s poor on-field attitude were bad. That stuff just brings everyone else down. So that should make overall improvement across the entire franchise right there.
Regardless of all that, it’s only opinions we’re discussing and it keeps life interesting. Time will tell if JS has the right mix so far or not. And none of us know what they have planned going forward, so, as I said, trust the process and have a little faith.
The way I look at, Geno is very unlikely to further develop. Whatever you think of his game, is it not going to improve and it’s going to decline sooner rather than later. Maybe the same is true of Darnold. But I’m no talent evaluator, and intuitively I think that a 27-year old can still get better regardless of where he is now.
Seattle could have its QB for the next 8-10 years. On the one hand, this is an ideal case; on the other, it’s not farfetched. Since Geno wanted out anyway, this is the equivalent of landing on your feet.
Your #1 priority was the OLine. Schneider's was broarder with a focus on "have a longer term plan at QB.
Honestly, i think one rookie really could bump our OLine into a solid unit. Swapping in a replacement for Laken "Turnstyle" Tomlinson will go a long way. Someone like Donovan Jackson rightly gets a lot of love for his work, despite a lack of consistency around him at Ohio. Pair him with a reliable figure like Cross and that left side of line instantly looks not only solid, but downright good.
Or take someone like Dalton Risner or Liam Eichenberg on relatively prove-it deals with a more developmental prospect like Jackson Slater or Wyatt Milum to work on as competition. And if we took a Zabel/Banks/Savaiinaea as well in our first 4/5 picks then wow our OLine feels very very different and we barely paid anything for it.
Well look. We can all be fans and hope, and as I’ve said before, I hope I’m wrong, as I have been before.
But our offseason starts with a downgrade at the most important position in sports, an NFL QB, a substantial one. Oakland agrees, they paid substantially more than we were willing to pay to get Geno, when Darnold was sitting there. And the entire league agrees, since no one else was willing to pay what we did for Darnold. The entire league could be wrong of course, and Oakland could be wrong of course, that’s got to be our hope.
Then we swapped Metcalf and Lockett for Kupp and MVS. Kupp is prob an upgrade vs Lockett (if he plays a full season?) but MVS is way worse than DK, flaws notwithstanding.
Any other moves come to mind that would say our offense is even parity to last year’s, personnel-wise?
No.
But we did save a bunch of cap space, actually the best thing about the offseason, not only for this season but especially for 2026 and 2027.
If you’re prepared for this to be a 7 win season despite our cushy schedule (an outcome SSJ has suggested), and instead bet on 2026 and 2027, then you’re prob happy with this offseason. Perhaps that’s what you mean by the forest instead of the trees — 2025 being the tree immediately before us.
Wasn’t where I saw us heading after the end of last season, that’s all.
Perhaps this discussion misses the way in which JS DID upgrade our OL. I think we can agree that Grubb & Co. didn't improve their play. As HawkBlogger suggested, looking at PFF numbers, Kubiak and the team he brought with him from NOLA were able significantly to improve the numbers for all of their OL, even the scrubs. Like...20% better run blocking and 5% better pass. I don't have any idea if that's simply scheme or if it's actual coaching, but hope it's both. Until I see them fail in THIS system I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic about Olu and Haynes, both of them still quite young. This draft SHOULD yield at least one starting-quality guard, or we'll find one on the side of the road, or whatever. Regardless, this coaching staff may on its own be a significant upgrade for OL play.
Looked up a number this morning. Our run game was 28th (by yardage) last year. A theoretical 20% improvement would put us at 16th. Just behind (wait for it...) NOLA!
Yes, clearly Schneiders's #1 priority was not the OL, it was indeed mine -- and pretty much everyone else's that's been posting here too over the last few yrs, including SSJ -- although SSJ's been crystal-clear in predicting that Schneider won't prioritize the OL if you look at his history, same as he won't be picking a QB, no matter how much the fan base or the press thinks he should.
Guess we can hope you're right that an iOL can be a difference maker in his first year, as there have been two pro bowl iOL rookies in the modern era:
- Zach Martin in 2014
- Quentin Nelson in 2018
I was hoping to get at least one pro bowl or potential pro bowl iOL in free agency, such as Trey Smith (who got franchise-tagged) or Joe Thuney (who the Bears got, not Schneider), would have even settled for Dalman too (who the Bears also got, not Schneider); would have really liked Will Fries (who the Vikings got, not Schneider), or Teven Jenkins (who the Browns (!) got, not Schneider); even Kevin Zeitler (who the Titans got, not Schneider) or Mehki Becton (who the Chargers got, not Schneider).
Here's the thing: we can all be fans here and say we've got a chance to have a better OL but is there ANYONE posting here (even you) who didn't feel at least a small twinge when the above guys got signed by someone else, not Schneider?
Truth is, OL was and has been the worst unit (by far) on the Hawks for years. Schneider yet again did nothing to improve it, even though most people would say it's been the Achilles heel of our passing game and our running game.
So he gets a D, regardless of swapping Metcalf for Kupp or Geno for Darnold. Still hasn't fixed what needs fixing.
Not an F bc he did save some cap and he did improve the defense (IMHO).
I wanted Trey Smith too, but he never reached the open market. That one can't even count as a miss. But I wanted Thuney as well. I would have been happy with Becton or Dalman, but I don't know the particulars as to why they signed where they did. I am happy we didn't sign Fries or the fragile Hummel doll on my grandma's shelf that is Teven Jenkins for the contracts that they got. Most importantly, it's still March. There will be a lot of turnover between now and when games are played. I really do think the position group will be different and hopefully improved by then.
Demanding any rookie to be a Pro Bowler is setting yourself up for dissapointment, especially on the OLine. (Not going to go into why "Pro Bowler" as a measurement is not a good idea)
You have to take Trey Smith off any list here, he never reached Free Agency and never was on the Trade Block. That's not a failure of JS. Then apart from Thuney it's a string of decidedly not-Pro Bowlers. So lets be fair to JS, he didn't pay Pro Bowler money for non-Pro Bowl players, and by your own workings could get a rookie to come in be a full time starter and not hit Pro Bowl just as effectively.
I'd have loved to get Dalman or Fries or Smith. But i'm happy we didn't pay their large player-friendly deals when there was still plenty of other needs we across the roster. Sometimes you just miss out and have to look at other ways to fill your needs. A running theme of mine for the last year has been that our OLine is a lot better than most fans think, because I actually watch the OLine.
Laken was a major weakness. The inconsistency between Olu, Sundell, Bradford, Haynes, Jerrell and Lucas didn't help either. I've commented at length on where each of them has issues, but also where each has done well, and crucially where there are issues how they can be fixed with better coaching and play calling. So i strongly stand by the view that we didn't need to splash our cash on a mix of Veterans a la the Bears, and believe that with two clever Draft picks plus a third wave prove-it player we can work a perfectly good OLine. I like JS going in a different direction to the Bears (seriously, the Bears... no-one should ever try to copy the Bears, it's not 1985 no matter how much Bowling For Soup you listen to) or to the Eagles. Because crucially for me, this is also not the same Seahawks of 2018-2023, with plenty of difference to the OLine as it is, to the Offence, and beyond.
[I reserve the right to change my tune 180 if JS doesn't draft OLine effectively by the end of Day 2 of the draft]
Ok, let’s revisit this after the draft, for sure it’s the big missing piece in our grading. We disagree on the mid term grade but maybe we’ll align on the final
I gave Shneider a better grade than I did for Geno, for the reason you mentioned and also bc he got a 2nd rd pick, which is AMAZING considering what other equal-to-better WR’s have garnered recently, who also wanted $30m. That Rd 2 pick was HUGE, congrats Mr Schneider
I’m the lone “D” I guess, if “we” were only 1% of the vote.
Sure hope I’m wrong, and I guess we’ll find out in a few months.
If Schneider isn’t able to improve the OL (so far gets a big fat zero on that front) then we’re about to see how Darnold will respond when he is required to throw under more duress (was I the only one who watched the Rams and Lions games to end of the Vikings season?), and with no running game (so far, why would Seattle have any better running game than it did last year? Bc Kupp blocks better than Lockett?).
You can’t let a guy go who was effective (we can debate “how effective” after we watch poor Darnold back there) unless a) you replace with an equally effective guy (jury’s out but not likely, or the Raiders would have preferred to keep their 3rd pick and a cheaper contract), or b) you improve substantially the OL so your new guy has more time and a better running game than his better predecessor
Since John has done neither a nor b yet, I’m not changing my D just bc he saved $10m/yr which he then spent on Josh Jones and MVS.
But I realize I’m in a massive minority so I DEFINITELY hope you guys prove me wrong
This comment is the hard truth that seems like very little fans want to face. Hope is great so I’m all for peoples positivity. But reality is reality.
I did watch the rams and lions game very closely (and you can toss the jags game in also that I didn’t see). My takeaway was that the game overwhelmed Darnold and he could not operate at an NFL level. Doesn’t matter how good the team is around him - you can’t win with that bad of QB play.
Darnold lows are significantly lower than Geno’s.
Hopefully things change! But there is a reason Minny let him walk. Hope to be wrong but I am staying with reality and not hope. Don’t see this plan working but we will see. Expectations are lower for next year than they were two weeks ago, that’s for sure
You're definitely not in the minority for feeling like the O line is the weakest unit on the team. I can only speak for myself, but I'm not terribly worried about it in March. The contracts given out to the iOL who hit free agency seemed way out of line for their level of play for any period of time/injury history/length of contract they wanted and so forth.
I think Ken Hamlin (that HAS to be who posts under the K Hammerling username) put it well. I was among the ones pulling out pitchforks over John's "overpaid and over drafted" comment before looking deeper into it, both here and other places. He's right. Or at least, not wrong. The money a middling guard got -and on a 5 year contract -after only having a little over a year of production and coming off a broken leg was baffling. If that works out, it will be a fine signing. But what a ton of investment in a question mark. Similarly, the guard who finished 5-6 games all last year and has a reputation for calling it a day midgame over a hangnail got paid. I don't want our young guys looking to anyone like that as a possible way to play the game.
OL is such a weird position group. They are SO vital, and yet so hard to evaluate. I stopped even trying to watch their tape (aka YouTube videos). First rounders bust at not THAT much a lower rate than 4th rounders. One turned ankle or rolled up knee can mean weeks of missed games and it's an oft injured place to play football. Yet there are so few good ones that it's near impossible to have a good unit and great depth. I have to wonder if lots of the athletic big guys get pushed to DL in high school to have more of an impact. And then they play that in college and it becomes who they are. And let's face it, ego surely plays a part. Pancaking a guy isn't nearly as impressive as getting a sack. But with the checks being written these days, maybe this will start to change.
I did watch most Vikings games this year (my good friend is a huge fan), including the end where Sam Darnold turned into a pumpkin. The biggest thing I would say though is that his protection was kind of terrible all year. There was a game midseason where the Cardinals looked like the Eagles and were in his face all day. Not as bad as the Rams in the playoffs, I'll grant you. But he took a beating all season and won 14 games. I do lean that Geno is a slightly better player and known quantity. But the contract he was said to have wanted would have handicapped us far too much.
I agree with you on how hard it is to evaluate OL’s but by almost any stat, ours is at best in the bottom quartile of the league.
Agree Donald was hit a lot but my fear is much of that is on him (slow processing despite having guys like Jefferson and Hockenson to target, and O’Connell calling plays). Reason I fear this is most of the advanced analytics show him as high as 2nd in time to throw.
I do get the challenge with signing Geno but I’m afraid it’s sign of the times, yesterdays $25m is todays $40m for QB’s. Sadly.
Guess we’ll see soon enough. My one hope is Darnold went 3rd overall for a reason, hopefully we unlock that. Essentially the reason I’m so ballistic about doing nothing to strengthen his OL.
I hear what you’re saying Zez, but I think it’s more about the fact he’s at least trying to improve the team. Too long have the Seahawks been the same old example of mediocrity doing the same thing with the same players (or carbon copies). JS has just gotten rid of a QB that has not improved and, given his age, likely never going to. He’s failed over and over again on multiple teams over his career and is only likely to regress. Then JS has obtained a QB who is arguably as talented, much younger and likely hasn’t hit his ceiling yet. And that’s just at the QB position. Then he’s made all the other moves - all of which have been positive IMO. Even if it doesn’t all work out yet, at least he’s having a crack at changing it up. Doing the same thing over and over again and wondering why you get the same result is madness. JS and the coaching crew are only beginning to build this team. Hell, this is only their first season being all together! Give ‘em a chance and JS some credit for bringing it together.
DK can drop passes and get 15 yard penalties for unsportsmanlike conduct for someone else!! Then he shoots his mouth off on Lynch podcast saying him and Lockett were mistreated. Does he actually think we were supposed to sign both of them for over $60 million for the pair?? NOT VERY SMART DK😡😡
Obviously I don’t know what goes on in the VMAC, but my hunch is that if Geno or DK felt like outsiders, it’s because they chose to feel that way. A new coaching staff comes in, it’s a reset. It levels the playing field, and relationships need to be built. If you view the coaching staff as outsiders, then you feel like an outsider. Just a thought, not fact.
If you don't gel with a coach or their staff, then you find out all of them are fired and a new batch is coming in, wouldn't that be a reason to STAY?
I find myself wondering if DK just wanted a big raise and extension, then left when he didn't get it, but doesn't want to look like he left for money. Maybe I am painting a non-existent soap opera in my head, but his reasonings on MikeRob and Marshawn's podcast just didn't make logical sense. Knowing it's a business, how can you begrudge JS for cutting Lockett's contract? He is free to sign another one at proper value. I don't see how DK could think Tyler was done wrong even if all of what he said about how good Tyler was is true. His cap hit was exorbitant. Does he think Tyler was REALLY worth $30mil+, or is that just a self-serving position for him to take so he can say he deserves more money himself? That would be disingenuous, and I think that's how it came off to me. It just seemed to me that DK made excuses for going to get his bag.
It's a shame, because I know at least 99% of folks in THIS community would not fault him for that. Just be upfront and honest about it. Of course, I could be way off-base.
Said it before re: Haynes. Yes “high” pick and yet was third ranked OG. Taken as 3rd OG. Was seen by a lot of people has being good. Did well in respected Senior Bowl. But more critical, of the top 10 IOL of last year. Only 3 had any significant playing time and 2 were first rounders. Only the whiners hit on late pick player. Of IOL. Only 1 hit in his rookie season. You posted it took Fries 3 seasons. Years ago we had Glowinski. Took him a few seasons. Pocic. Sorry just don’t get the comments that our 3rd rounder was a bad pick when no one else hit on last year either.
The best way to determine the correct frequency of Seahawks surveys is to produce a weekly survey about the frequency of surveys.
Thoroughly enjoyed reading through the comments this morning. Thanks to all. Respectful discourse is rare to find, and good for the soul.
I definitely voted A for DK trade because of his contract expectations. Hard to replace him, but not hard to use that much cap space better.
All surveys all the time, Ken! Well maybe not all the time, but you know what opinions are like, we all have them …. And like to share them, often.
Something stinks about this comment
Would like to see a survey on the first 3 rounds of the draft by everyone. Put out 4 names for each round.
May the 12s be with you. Go Seahawks!
Perhaps 2-4 names per draft choice?
"Only when it's relevant"?!?? What fun is that? Geez man, tough room
And, relevant to whom?!
No kidding! Just ask Mrs. Turtleman, I want my opinion asked daily!
I've always said that everyone has a right to MY opinion....
PIT will regret the DK trade, it’s a big win for the Hawks.
I think the grades are a fair reflection. JS didn't get desparate, and the additions were very much thought out players that fit what we need & are all on team friendly deals. The trade outs were good too.
The Geno to Raiders move of course is the big one. Raiders clearly wanted Stafford first, so quite how JS turned their second (or even third choice) into a 3rd i don't know. Smart to go to them with DK&Geno for Crosby to spark a conversation, probably catching them off guard and peaking Carroll into action"Oh, Geno's actually available?! Let's get a deal done then yes!" JS just needs to finish the smooth work by drafting a QB.
Kupp continues to intrigue. Value wise we did pretty well, on par with the market, and avoiding paying him a bonus for reputation. Like with all moves we'll only know whether they were right or not in time, so until we see quite how he's used the B grading feels pretty fair.
Anyway, most of us are roughly on the same pages. Other teams will steal headlines and buzz, but JS i think has sneakily had one of the better off-seasons thus far. I'm excited for the Draft where we have capital in the right places, and a real ability to go BPA again on Day 1 where we could really bag a blue chipper without doing much (Campbell at LB, Starks/Emanwori/Barron at DB as examples)
And oddly, Geno doesn’t have a new contract yet. Seems strange.
I still wonder if Vegas has eyes on drafting Sanders. Geno being a one-year Bridge PC knows well, whilst they sit Shedeur and get him up to speed.
I love DK on a rookie contract. Even the second was fine. But nothing I've seen from his public persona (which admittedly may not reflect who he truly is) speaks of the type of person willing to do the grinding and extra detail work it will take to justify his newest compensation. By no means do I think his stats will objectively "suck," but there's no reason to think he'll be a league leader in catches/yards/TDs next year (or ever) based on his past.
I recall an article on FG (maybe elsewhere?) a few years back that looked at DK's pedestrian rate of winning contested catches and his unexpectedly low separation numbers: it was both eye-opening and stupifying to see how comparatively bad he is at those critical skills. To be a top 5 WR you can't make those skills lower priorities than how you look in a tight t-shirt. And I don't see how someone can justify a top 5 contract without top 5 production.
I know some say "but he's such a key decoy - they need to keep him or JSN/etc. are screwed." To be clear: if you need a $30 million decoy to free up your productive WRs there's a serious problem with your offensive scheme. And hey, look at that: new scheme unlocked for 2025.
I fully expect DK to keep relying on his raw physical ability (to decent effect for at least a couple more years) and downplaying his penalties, drops, low contested catch rate, etc. as fan/media concern about nothing. Like a lot of really physically gifted players, though, he isn't self-aware enough to realize that those gifts are (a) on a [rapidly approaching] timeline and (b) not so much better than his NFL peers to get him to where he thinks he already is.
It would be fascinating to live in a world where players could have the athleticism of their 20s and the self-awareness that (hopefully) comes with age/experience: I cannot even imagine what someone like DK could accomplish in that scenario.
"It would be fascinating to live in a world where players could have the athleticism of their 20s and the self-awareness that (hopefully) comes with age/experience"
No doubt. It's a crying shame that the human brain isn't fully developed until your late 20's, when your body is at the end of its' peak. DK can't look like an Adonnis eating candy 3 meals a day when he's my age, I assure you.
I would say you may possibly describing the world we do live in, and JSN is one example of the players you long for. In fact, there are many players who recognize the weaknesses in their game and work on them or around them. That has to show some amount of self-awareness. Bobo is another example: a dude that knows he isn't NFL fast, but he uses his other skills to more than compensate.
Not trying to argue or contradict you, though. I agree that it is a shame that too many of the top uber-talented guys have had their ego over-fed for so long that their perspectives have blind spots. It is refreshing to see and root for the ones that have the appropriate level of humility that allows them to be self-aware enough to be great. I always had to respect Jerry Rice for that, even though Largent was our guy.
Danno is bang on Kenneth
I know its easy to pick apart things you don't like about players, but I never understood DKs lack of restraint. You are supposed to be a grown ass man. You are getting paid a lot of money to play a game, and your teammates are counting on you. I can only describe it as selfish, or generously as childish.
Is he a gifted, talented player? Yes
Is he a liability when DBs know they can get in his head? Also, yes.
I'm with Mike Brophy on this; DK can be a lid case for someone else. I was getting tired of his mental breakdowns on the field, which usually followed him dropping passes he should have caught.
Will his talent be tough to replace? Probably. But hell, I can run fast and drop passes too. And I don't make shit for pay compared to DK.
(And full disclaimer, I COULD run fast back when I was his age. Now, not so much)
Schneider’s #1 priority for the offseason was “fix the OL”. So far, has he? See “Chicago Bears” if you want to see what might have been.
Can any rookie be counted on to fix our OL in his first year?
No.
So, we are going to struggle on “O” and be fairly easy to stop. Gonna all be on the shoulders of the D, too much so to get past the early playoff rounds. Playoffs are possible given our patsy schedule, which we have wasted by still believing things will be better while still with a #30 or worse OL
In fairness, the offensive coaching staff appears to be an upgrade. That can impact the OL.
Fair enough, but I disagree with a couple of things. I think (hope) that Darnold may well be an upgrade. Time will tell. Also, not every other team was looking for a QB, so saying the whole league agrees is patently false. And PC has always been bias with Geno (overly so OMO).
Also, I think both Geno and DK were bad for team dynamics. Geno’s poor body language and DK’s poor on-field attitude were bad. That stuff just brings everyone else down. So that should make overall improvement across the entire franchise right there.
Regardless of all that, it’s only opinions we’re discussing and it keeps life interesting. Time will tell if JS has the right mix so far or not. And none of us know what they have planned going forward, so, as I said, trust the process and have a little faith.
The way I look at, Geno is very unlikely to further develop. Whatever you think of his game, is it not going to improve and it’s going to decline sooner rather than later. Maybe the same is true of Darnold. But I’m no talent evaluator, and intuitively I think that a 27-year old can still get better regardless of where he is now.
Seattle could have its QB for the next 8-10 years. On the one hand, this is an ideal case; on the other, it’s not farfetched. Since Geno wanted out anyway, this is the equivalent of landing on your feet.
Your #1 priority was the OLine. Schneider's was broarder with a focus on "have a longer term plan at QB.
Honestly, i think one rookie really could bump our OLine into a solid unit. Swapping in a replacement for Laken "Turnstyle" Tomlinson will go a long way. Someone like Donovan Jackson rightly gets a lot of love for his work, despite a lack of consistency around him at Ohio. Pair him with a reliable figure like Cross and that left side of line instantly looks not only solid, but downright good.
Or take someone like Dalton Risner or Liam Eichenberg on relatively prove-it deals with a more developmental prospect like Jackson Slater or Wyatt Milum to work on as competition. And if we took a Zabel/Banks/Savaiinaea as well in our first 4/5 picks then wow our OLine feels very very different and we barely paid anything for it.
Yes, as I’ve said before, trust the process. I think Zez is having trouble seeing the forest for the trees.
Well look. We can all be fans and hope, and as I’ve said before, I hope I’m wrong, as I have been before.
But our offseason starts with a downgrade at the most important position in sports, an NFL QB, a substantial one. Oakland agrees, they paid substantially more than we were willing to pay to get Geno, when Darnold was sitting there. And the entire league agrees, since no one else was willing to pay what we did for Darnold. The entire league could be wrong of course, and Oakland could be wrong of course, that’s got to be our hope.
Then we swapped Metcalf and Lockett for Kupp and MVS. Kupp is prob an upgrade vs Lockett (if he plays a full season?) but MVS is way worse than DK, flaws notwithstanding.
Any other moves come to mind that would say our offense is even parity to last year’s, personnel-wise?
No.
But we did save a bunch of cap space, actually the best thing about the offseason, not only for this season but especially for 2026 and 2027.
If you’re prepared for this to be a 7 win season despite our cushy schedule (an outcome SSJ has suggested), and instead bet on 2026 and 2027, then you’re prob happy with this offseason. Perhaps that’s what you mean by the forest instead of the trees — 2025 being the tree immediately before us.
Wasn’t where I saw us heading after the end of last season, that’s all.
Perhaps this discussion misses the way in which JS DID upgrade our OL. I think we can agree that Grubb & Co. didn't improve their play. As HawkBlogger suggested, looking at PFF numbers, Kubiak and the team he brought with him from NOLA were able significantly to improve the numbers for all of their OL, even the scrubs. Like...20% better run blocking and 5% better pass. I don't have any idea if that's simply scheme or if it's actual coaching, but hope it's both. Until I see them fail in THIS system I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic about Olu and Haynes, both of them still quite young. This draft SHOULD yield at least one starting-quality guard, or we'll find one on the side of the road, or whatever. Regardless, this coaching staff may on its own be a significant upgrade for OL play.
Looked up a number this morning. Our run game was 28th (by yardage) last year. A theoretical 20% improvement would put us at 16th. Just behind (wait for it...) NOLA!
I think this is the thing people are missing. Development of our o-line prospects is IMO our biggest failure. We’re about to find out.
Yes, clearly Schneiders's #1 priority was not the OL, it was indeed mine -- and pretty much everyone else's that's been posting here too over the last few yrs, including SSJ -- although SSJ's been crystal-clear in predicting that Schneider won't prioritize the OL if you look at his history, same as he won't be picking a QB, no matter how much the fan base or the press thinks he should.
Guess we can hope you're right that an iOL can be a difference maker in his first year, as there have been two pro bowl iOL rookies in the modern era:
- Zach Martin in 2014
- Quentin Nelson in 2018
I was hoping to get at least one pro bowl or potential pro bowl iOL in free agency, such as Trey Smith (who got franchise-tagged) or Joe Thuney (who the Bears got, not Schneider), would have even settled for Dalman too (who the Bears also got, not Schneider); would have really liked Will Fries (who the Vikings got, not Schneider), or Teven Jenkins (who the Browns (!) got, not Schneider); even Kevin Zeitler (who the Titans got, not Schneider) or Mehki Becton (who the Chargers got, not Schneider).
Here's the thing: we can all be fans here and say we've got a chance to have a better OL but is there ANYONE posting here (even you) who didn't feel at least a small twinge when the above guys got signed by someone else, not Schneider?
Truth is, OL was and has been the worst unit (by far) on the Hawks for years. Schneider yet again did nothing to improve it, even though most people would say it's been the Achilles heel of our passing game and our running game.
So he gets a D, regardless of swapping Metcalf for Kupp or Geno for Darnold. Still hasn't fixed what needs fixing.
Not an F bc he did save some cap and he did improve the defense (IMHO).
I wanted Trey Smith too, but he never reached the open market. That one can't even count as a miss. But I wanted Thuney as well. I would have been happy with Becton or Dalman, but I don't know the particulars as to why they signed where they did. I am happy we didn't sign Fries or the fragile Hummel doll on my grandma's shelf that is Teven Jenkins for the contracts that they got. Most importantly, it's still March. There will be a lot of turnover between now and when games are played. I really do think the position group will be different and hopefully improved by then.
Demanding any rookie to be a Pro Bowler is setting yourself up for dissapointment, especially on the OLine. (Not going to go into why "Pro Bowler" as a measurement is not a good idea)
You have to take Trey Smith off any list here, he never reached Free Agency and never was on the Trade Block. That's not a failure of JS. Then apart from Thuney it's a string of decidedly not-Pro Bowlers. So lets be fair to JS, he didn't pay Pro Bowler money for non-Pro Bowl players, and by your own workings could get a rookie to come in be a full time starter and not hit Pro Bowl just as effectively.
I'd have loved to get Dalman or Fries or Smith. But i'm happy we didn't pay their large player-friendly deals when there was still plenty of other needs we across the roster. Sometimes you just miss out and have to look at other ways to fill your needs. A running theme of mine for the last year has been that our OLine is a lot better than most fans think, because I actually watch the OLine.
Laken was a major weakness. The inconsistency between Olu, Sundell, Bradford, Haynes, Jerrell and Lucas didn't help either. I've commented at length on where each of them has issues, but also where each has done well, and crucially where there are issues how they can be fixed with better coaching and play calling. So i strongly stand by the view that we didn't need to splash our cash on a mix of Veterans a la the Bears, and believe that with two clever Draft picks plus a third wave prove-it player we can work a perfectly good OLine. I like JS going in a different direction to the Bears (seriously, the Bears... no-one should ever try to copy the Bears, it's not 1985 no matter how much Bowling For Soup you listen to) or to the Eagles. Because crucially for me, this is also not the same Seahawks of 2018-2023, with plenty of difference to the OLine as it is, to the Offence, and beyond.
[I reserve the right to change my tune 180 if JS doesn't draft OLine effectively by the end of Day 2 of the draft]
Here here.
Ok, let’s revisit this after the draft, for sure it’s the big missing piece in our grading. We disagree on the mid term grade but maybe we’ll align on the final
Yep! Ultimately we both want the same thing in the end, just with differing views on how to get there.
I gave Shneider a better grade than I did for Geno, for the reason you mentioned and also bc he got a 2nd rd pick, which is AMAZING considering what other equal-to-better WR’s have garnered recently, who also wanted $30m. That Rd 2 pick was HUGE, congrats Mr Schneider
I’m the lone “D” I guess, if “we” were only 1% of the vote.
Sure hope I’m wrong, and I guess we’ll find out in a few months.
If Schneider isn’t able to improve the OL (so far gets a big fat zero on that front) then we’re about to see how Darnold will respond when he is required to throw under more duress (was I the only one who watched the Rams and Lions games to end of the Vikings season?), and with no running game (so far, why would Seattle have any better running game than it did last year? Bc Kupp blocks better than Lockett?).
You can’t let a guy go who was effective (we can debate “how effective” after we watch poor Darnold back there) unless a) you replace with an equally effective guy (jury’s out but not likely, or the Raiders would have preferred to keep their 3rd pick and a cheaper contract), or b) you improve substantially the OL so your new guy has more time and a better running game than his better predecessor
Since John has done neither a nor b yet, I’m not changing my D just bc he saved $10m/yr which he then spent on Josh Jones and MVS.
But I realize I’m in a massive minority so I DEFINITELY hope you guys prove me wrong
Just an excellent comment. Well done
This comment is the hard truth that seems like very little fans want to face. Hope is great so I’m all for peoples positivity. But reality is reality.
I did watch the rams and lions game very closely (and you can toss the jags game in also that I didn’t see). My takeaway was that the game overwhelmed Darnold and he could not operate at an NFL level. Doesn’t matter how good the team is around him - you can’t win with that bad of QB play.
Darnold lows are significantly lower than Geno’s.
Hopefully things change! But there is a reason Minny let him walk. Hope to be wrong but I am staying with reality and not hope. Don’t see this plan working but we will see. Expectations are lower for next year than they were two weeks ago, that’s for sure
Reality?
Geno Smith has never won a playoff game in his career. And only ever made one. Reality is reality.
You're definitely not in the minority for feeling like the O line is the weakest unit on the team. I can only speak for myself, but I'm not terribly worried about it in March. The contracts given out to the iOL who hit free agency seemed way out of line for their level of play for any period of time/injury history/length of contract they wanted and so forth.
I think Ken Hamlin (that HAS to be who posts under the K Hammerling username) put it well. I was among the ones pulling out pitchforks over John's "overpaid and over drafted" comment before looking deeper into it, both here and other places. He's right. Or at least, not wrong. The money a middling guard got -and on a 5 year contract -after only having a little over a year of production and coming off a broken leg was baffling. If that works out, it will be a fine signing. But what a ton of investment in a question mark. Similarly, the guard who finished 5-6 games all last year and has a reputation for calling it a day midgame over a hangnail got paid. I don't want our young guys looking to anyone like that as a possible way to play the game.
OL is such a weird position group. They are SO vital, and yet so hard to evaluate. I stopped even trying to watch their tape (aka YouTube videos). First rounders bust at not THAT much a lower rate than 4th rounders. One turned ankle or rolled up knee can mean weeks of missed games and it's an oft injured place to play football. Yet there are so few good ones that it's near impossible to have a good unit and great depth. I have to wonder if lots of the athletic big guys get pushed to DL in high school to have more of an impact. And then they play that in college and it becomes who they are. And let's face it, ego surely plays a part. Pancaking a guy isn't nearly as impressive as getting a sack. But with the checks being written these days, maybe this will start to change.
I did watch most Vikings games this year (my good friend is a huge fan), including the end where Sam Darnold turned into a pumpkin. The biggest thing I would say though is that his protection was kind of terrible all year. There was a game midseason where the Cardinals looked like the Eagles and were in his face all day. Not as bad as the Rams in the playoffs, I'll grant you. But he took a beating all season and won 14 games. I do lean that Geno is a slightly better player and known quantity. But the contract he was said to have wanted would have handicapped us far too much.
I agree with you on how hard it is to evaluate OL’s but by almost any stat, ours is at best in the bottom quartile of the league.
Agree Donald was hit a lot but my fear is much of that is on him (slow processing despite having guys like Jefferson and Hockenson to target, and O’Connell calling plays). Reason I fear this is most of the advanced analytics show him as high as 2nd in time to throw.
I do get the challenge with signing Geno but I’m afraid it’s sign of the times, yesterdays $25m is todays $40m for QB’s. Sadly.
Guess we’ll see soon enough. My one hope is Darnold went 3rd overall for a reason, hopefully we unlock that. Essentially the reason I’m so ballistic about doing nothing to strengthen his OL.
I hear what you’re saying Zez, but I think it’s more about the fact he’s at least trying to improve the team. Too long have the Seahawks been the same old example of mediocrity doing the same thing with the same players (or carbon copies). JS has just gotten rid of a QB that has not improved and, given his age, likely never going to. He’s failed over and over again on multiple teams over his career and is only likely to regress. Then JS has obtained a QB who is arguably as talented, much younger and likely hasn’t hit his ceiling yet. And that’s just at the QB position. Then he’s made all the other moves - all of which have been positive IMO. Even if it doesn’t all work out yet, at least he’s having a crack at changing it up. Doing the same thing over and over again and wondering why you get the same result is madness. JS and the coaching crew are only beginning to build this team. Hell, this is only their first season being all together! Give ‘em a chance and JS some credit for bringing it together.
DK can drop passes and get 15 yard penalties for unsportsmanlike conduct for someone else!! Then he shoots his mouth off on Lynch podcast saying him and Lockett were mistreated. Does he actually think we were supposed to sign both of them for over $60 million for the pair?? NOT VERY SMART DK😡😡
Obviously I don’t know what goes on in the VMAC, but my hunch is that if Geno or DK felt like outsiders, it’s because they chose to feel that way. A new coaching staff comes in, it’s a reset. It levels the playing field, and relationships need to be built. If you view the coaching staff as outsiders, then you feel like an outsider. Just a thought, not fact.
I wonder about that too.
Here's another one that popped into my head:
If you don't gel with a coach or their staff, then you find out all of them are fired and a new batch is coming in, wouldn't that be a reason to STAY?
I find myself wondering if DK just wanted a big raise and extension, then left when he didn't get it, but doesn't want to look like he left for money. Maybe I am painting a non-existent soap opera in my head, but his reasonings on MikeRob and Marshawn's podcast just didn't make logical sense. Knowing it's a business, how can you begrudge JS for cutting Lockett's contract? He is free to sign another one at proper value. I don't see how DK could think Tyler was done wrong even if all of what he said about how good Tyler was is true. His cap hit was exorbitant. Does he think Tyler was REALLY worth $30mil+, or is that just a self-serving position for him to take so he can say he deserves more money himself? That would be disingenuous, and I think that's how it came off to me. It just seemed to me that DK made excuses for going to get his bag.
It's a shame, because I know at least 99% of folks in THIS community would not fault him for that. Just be upfront and honest about it. Of course, I could be way off-base.
I wonder whether DK blamed MM for Grubb, and maybe thought that he should have stepped in more than he did.
Maybe, but then why demand a trade AFTER MM fired Grubb? (basically doing what DK wanted)
Does the defense's case hold woadah? NO, the defense is wroahng!
https://youtu.be/CFdJza0AbeA?feature=shared