Well the Dissly/Colby combo more than what we’re paying Fant. I too like Colby but as a Receiver, Fant is one of the nfls best. Just hope we finally use him
One additional thought . The Rams have some money, not loaded, but they definitely have some change in their pocket..They have a spent all of their cap money so far on rebuilding their offense
Line.. Sean McVay may be many things, but one thing is for sure he is no dummy
Yes the market for offensive lineman has exploded. I believe many teams are coming to the realization that having a good two great line is a necessity of life Youcannot have. Your quarterback, running for his life on every play., he goes down, so does your season.You also need a solid running game to help your quarterback, control the clock etc. etc. Your
quarterback has time to make plays, then all sorts of good things can happen, he doesn’t, then it is a train wreck. Building a skyscraper on a weak foundation, well, we all know the answer to that one.
Dissly signed with the Chargers 14 million for three years with 10 million guaranteed sounds like a 9 million dollar signing bonus with vet minimums in all three years.
Every time a QB signs, it makes me happier we have Geno on his contract rather than Mayfield, et. al. at more money. I can't imagine having LESS money to build around the other QBs then we have to build around Geno (+QBotF), now. How bad would our OL be if we had to pay 10-20mil more for our QB. Sheesh. Rooting for John to spend it wisely!
If our new OC is as good as he should be, then maybe we see more 3WR sets (I always get confused at how the new ##-personnel system would call that because it leaves out WR completely, which seems backwards to me. Is that 11-personnel?) And get more usage out of JSN.... good! Just as long as we can improve on the OL, I am ok losing all the TEs. We just had to lean on them hard because our OL hasn't been healthy/good enough recently.
I do admit that I wanted to keep Colby over the other 2, though. I'm staying patient and not overreacting to any one player move, and will stay in that mindset until week 1, when John's exam begins.
I would add that I concur with some others on the board about Bobo. He looked pretty close to a TE at times last year. We still need at least a blocking TE but Bobo can certainly help at times.
Do they see BoBo as the heir apparent for red zone threats? Different positional value but, potentially a decent trade off for that threat alone? Blocking maybe not.
My thots went to Bobo, also. I suspect he is faster than his 4.99 in the 40, so bulked up he could easily take on TE duties. Certainly he holds the 'It' factor as regards getting open and has impressed with YAC. Not bad at blocking in the very limited time we've seen him play. And what is stopping MM from giving DK routes? It would explain his rudimentary efforts at blocking last year. Put up plays using DK, Bobo, Tyler and JSN all at once? Seems most likely Fant will stay if he is the sole TE on the roster.
Seems like he signed for less than what we had been paying 'uncle Will?' I hoped he would be TE #1, and his ability to make violently contested red zone catches would be a great complement to the WR's. Perhaps he felt he'd never get the targets here, but it's a new regime... Damn!
Kirk Cousins is older than Geno Smith and coming off a serious injury. For all the talk I hear that Geno has a 9-win ceiling cap or whatever people are saying. Cousins has, I believe, 1 playoff win in his career and is 1-4.
Geno Smith is younger, healthier, better? (IMO Geno is better but may not be everyone's) and costs roughly $20M less per year than Cousins.
Very lucky to have Geno.
"The #Falcons are signing Kirk Cousins to a four-year, $180 million contract that includes a $50M signing bonus, per sources.
Always worth a call. They have 11th overall pick, no third, but two 4th, two 5ths, and two 6ths.
I think JS would take a second rounder or the equivalent. That is just my personal wild guess. (Could think about it as trading Geno for Penix and letting Lock start)
However, if I were the GM, I wouldn't really consider trading Geno but if I were to consider it, it would have to start with a first and second or two firsts. Which is not where the market is at, I would assume. So I would not trade him.
Geno is not the greatest QB in the league and of course we’d like to see the Hawks have the best QB. In a cap free league I’d argue the Hawks should spend whatever it takes to make that happen. In the real world, Geno is a competent, relatively cheap, dependable guy. Get him a better line, draft his replacement, and even keep Lock for a 3 way competition. I never want to see the Hawks offer a contract like the one Cousins got to a medium QB which is what both Geno and Cousins are.
Only a couple of teams can have the absolute best QB, so if you aren’t one of those teams, and the Hawks aren’t, then minimize QB expense and maximize another piece of the game. That could be receivers, RBs, defense, etc. The cap makes it hard to be excellent at everything which is the whole point. They want parity to keep interest up in all teams.
The salary cap can make things misleading within the NFL. Its not about absolute play, its about how good someone is relative to their cost. The reason Brady and Mahomes are so good is that they actually outplay their contracts. The reason a QB like Purdy can be favored in the SB? He outplays his contract.
In other words, would the Chiefs and Patriots win if Brady or Mahomes took up 50% of the salary cap? I would say no. So even the best players at the most important position still need to provide value above cost.
Here is Over The Cap's attempt at showing it for Geno:
At least in their opinion and probably most people's, Geno is better than his contract. Just like Purdy, you can win even with a less than superstar QB playing better than their cost.
Overall, I think we are on the same page. Keep looking for the QB but also keep building a team with players that outplay their cost. Who knows, while you are looking for that QB you may just stumble into creating a good team.
I think early Russ fit this mold, although he might actually have been a top 5 QB. On his rookie deal he was cheap and provided way above average performance. His low cost allowed PC/JS to surround him with an outstanding team. As his cost rose his possibly improved play didn’t outweigh the loss of money to sign other talented players.
I like the route JS is taking so far. I think last year’s offense with a decent defense probably wins at least one playoff game. Hopefully next year’s offense doesn’t regress and Coach McD works his magic on the defense.
I guess it all depends upon how the Hawks feel about Geno. We've talked about Geno to death and my feeling is he doesn't put the Hawks over the top. I'd move on if I could get decent compensation.
I wouldn’t move Geno for anything less than a high first. It’s not that I think he’s that good—it’s that a reliable QB is that valuable to a first-time head coach whose priority is salvaging a bad defense. Geno also allows first-time NFL OC Ryan Grubb leeway that he’s likely to need.
It is all up to what JS, Mac, and Grubb see. The weird Schefter tweet would be the only thing that I have seen that would lead me to believe that they are looking to move on. That and I think JS really wants to give Lock a shot.
Personally, I am high on Geno. I don't think he is old. I think he is mature and ready. For the Hawks, it's all about building a team around him. Having said that, I would always draft a QB or look to add competition to the room. Also I would be ready to give Lock a shot (if he is still on the team) in a lost season. Same as last year.
I think there should always be competition at every position. Players should always be proving themselves. Including the QB.
Drew has more potential than Geno simply because we haven't seen what he may do when given his head. Maybe Geno was reined-in by Pete last year? He could make that argument. The quality of talent with them both comes quite cheap, to boot, giving JS money to focus elsewhere. I would consider no better place for a butt-kickn rookie QB to train under as a QB3, especially if MM goes with an all-out Rough and Ready attitude. If these new coaches get the guys to seriously buy into making a strong run at the Playoffs, watch out. What Bobby and Will do will speak volumes.
Geno was unbelievable last year from the Dallas game on (after Pete stepped in and Geno got the ball out quicker). And that is behind one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL. The second half of the Titans game, albeit against a bad defense, was essentially a perfect half of QB play outside of 1 or 2 plays. Just a beautiful thing to watch.
I would love to see what Geno can do behind an average offensive line or dare I even think about a good one?
I am also a fan of Lock. If Geno regresses and the season becomes lost, then give him a shot to see what he can do.
Also like drafting a QB if the right guy is there.
Salary aside, I’d suspect 32 of 32 GMs would take Cousins. Though many would surely take Geno factoring in cost. Cousins is the master of bag-getting. I don’t know why any qb would settle for an extension that doesn’t blow them away after seeing what he’s been able to do.
The GMs that were in the QB market the last two years would certainly agree that Cousins is better than Geno. At this point would all 32? Maybe ... maybe not.
As far as stats go... they seem pretty comparable to me. But Cousins also played behind a significantly better offensive line.
Overall? My personal opinion is I would rather have Geno regardless of salary difference. I think he is better. But I think most GMs would prefer Cousins as you said but who knows. He did play an awesome game against the Niners.
He's just a much more productive quarterback. I'm no fan of his, just trying to be objective. I might even argue that 32 of 32 GMs would take Geno on his salary than Cousins on his! Geno is a crazy good deal and better than a serviceable starter. That Cousins' deal is way too steep for an outside of the top 4-5 guy, IMO. This trend of paying good quarterbacks like great ones never seems to work out.
Seems ironic that we may finally have an OC that knows how to integrate the TE's into the offensive attack regularly, and Colby's gone before we see him in it. Best of Luck Colby, except when we play the Rams.
I'm glad the Seahawks are chillin'. Some crazy money getting thrown around right now. Patience Willow (if you get that movie reference, it's worth 1000 pts).
I think it’s the new going rate. Not really commensurate with the cap increase and RBs are getting better bags too! If it’s an overpay, the market should adjust later, but it’s of no help when we need a good guard now.
I just wish we had more draft capital to replace guys like Colby.
We could get some compensation for CP and others who will almost certainly be gone, like Fant, and maybe Lewis, and many others, but replacing them may be difficult without draft capital this year.
Market not going Seattle's way so far with guard market exploding as well as interior DL.
I would not be willing to go over $20M/yr for Williams. We will see what JS wants to do.
Also, with the guard market increases, I think you have to upgrade the positional value and draft accordingly. Does this mean at 16? Maybe. But I certainly would if it were a multi-positioned player who can play Tackle or Guard. (Fautano?)
I am not worried about tight ends. Sign Dissly or find a blocking TE and draft Westover.
Well the Dissly/Colby combo more than what we’re paying Fant. I too like Colby but as a Receiver, Fant is one of the nfls best. Just hope we finally use him
One additional thought . The Rams have some money, not loaded, but they definitely have some change in their pocket..They have a spent all of their cap money so far on rebuilding their offense
Line.. Sean McVay may be many things, but one thing is for sure he is no dummy
Yes the market for offensive lineman has exploded. I believe many teams are coming to the realization that having a good two great line is a necessity of life Youcannot have. Your quarterback, running for his life on every play., he goes down, so does your season.You also need a solid running game to help your quarterback, control the clock etc. etc. Your
quarterback has time to make plays, then all sorts of good things can happen, he doesn’t, then it is a train wreck. Building a skyscraper on a weak foundation, well, we all know the answer to that one.
Dissly signed with the Chargers 14 million for three years with 10 million guaranteed sounds like a 9 million dollar signing bonus with vet minimums in all three years.
Seeing all our needs, my #1 Santa request is Frankie Luvu. Let's get those elves to working!
Lucy signed with the Moons
Luvu (spell correction)
Rats.
I was hoping you really meant Lucy, but that would have left you with some splainin to do.
Every time a QB signs, it makes me happier we have Geno on his contract rather than Mayfield, et. al. at more money. I can't imagine having LESS money to build around the other QBs then we have to build around Geno (+QBotF), now. How bad would our OL be if we had to pay 10-20mil more for our QB. Sheesh. Rooting for John to spend it wisely!
If our new OC is as good as he should be, then maybe we see more 3WR sets (I always get confused at how the new ##-personnel system would call that because it leaves out WR completely, which seems backwards to me. Is that 11-personnel?) And get more usage out of JSN.... good! Just as long as we can improve on the OL, I am ok losing all the TEs. We just had to lean on them hard because our OL hasn't been healthy/good enough recently.
I do admit that I wanted to keep Colby over the other 2, though. I'm staying patient and not overreacting to any one player move, and will stay in that mindset until week 1, when John's exam begins.
First number = RB
Second number = TE
11 personnel = 1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WR
Once we resigned Lockett, I am with you, fine with letting the TEs go or comeback at a good rate.
Parkinson was fun with that size.
Thanks for the breakdown, Mike. I knew you were a great hire! 😄
Haha ... this comment section cracks me up.
I would add that I concur with some others on the board about Bobo. He looked pretty close to a TE at times last year. We still need at least a blocking TE but Bobo can certainly help at times.
I'm glad that same joke hasn't gotten tired, yet.
If I have anything to say about it....
It will.
Oh, yes.... it will.
Do they see BoBo as the heir apparent for red zone threats? Different positional value but, potentially a decent trade off for that threat alone? Blocking maybe not.
I wondered this as well. Maybe not a true in-line TE, but I would think he could play a hybrid TE/WR role.
My thots went to Bobo, also. I suspect he is faster than his 4.99 in the 40, so bulked up he could easily take on TE duties. Certainly he holds the 'It' factor as regards getting open and has impressed with YAC. Not bad at blocking in the very limited time we've seen him play. And what is stopping MM from giving DK routes? It would explain his rudimentary efforts at blocking last year. Put up plays using DK, Bobo, Tyler and JSN all at once? Seems most likely Fant will stay if he is the sole TE on the roster.
Seems like he signed for less than what we had been paying 'uncle Will?' I hoped he would be TE #1, and his ability to make violently contested red zone catches would be a great complement to the WR's. Perhaps he felt he'd never get the targets here, but it's a new regime... Damn!
Kirk Cousins is older than Geno Smith and coming off a serious injury. For all the talk I hear that Geno has a 9-win ceiling cap or whatever people are saying. Cousins has, I believe, 1 playoff win in his career and is 1-4.
Geno Smith is younger, healthier, better? (IMO Geno is better but may not be everyone's) and costs roughly $20M less per year than Cousins.
Very lucky to have Geno.
"The #Falcons are signing Kirk Cousins to a four-year, $180 million contract that includes a $50M signing bonus, per sources.
Another monster payday for Cousins, who gets $100 guaranteed — $90M in 2024 and ‘25, plus another $10M in 2026 — and a fresh start in Atlanta at age 35." https://x.com/TomPelissero/status/1767261025324134892?s=20
I wonder what sort of draft capital the Vikings would give up for Geno right now.
Zero as it is being reported that the Vikings are signing Lock for 4 million
I think we're definitely drafting a QB this year then.
Always worth a call. They have 11th overall pick, no third, but two 4th, two 5ths, and two 6ths.
I think JS would take a second rounder or the equivalent. That is just my personal wild guess. (Could think about it as trading Geno for Penix and letting Lock start)
However, if I were the GM, I wouldn't really consider trading Geno but if I were to consider it, it would have to start with a first and second or two firsts. Which is not where the market is at, I would assume. So I would not trade him.
Geno is not the greatest QB in the league and of course we’d like to see the Hawks have the best QB. In a cap free league I’d argue the Hawks should spend whatever it takes to make that happen. In the real world, Geno is a competent, relatively cheap, dependable guy. Get him a better line, draft his replacement, and even keep Lock for a 3 way competition. I never want to see the Hawks offer a contract like the one Cousins got to a medium QB which is what both Geno and Cousins are.
Only a couple of teams can have the absolute best QB, so if you aren’t one of those teams, and the Hawks aren’t, then minimize QB expense and maximize another piece of the game. That could be receivers, RBs, defense, etc. The cap makes it hard to be excellent at everything which is the whole point. They want parity to keep interest up in all teams.
Yeah definitely.
The salary cap can make things misleading within the NFL. Its not about absolute play, its about how good someone is relative to their cost. The reason Brady and Mahomes are so good is that they actually outplay their contracts. The reason a QB like Purdy can be favored in the SB? He outplays his contract.
In other words, would the Chiefs and Patriots win if Brady or Mahomes took up 50% of the salary cap? I would say no. So even the best players at the most important position still need to provide value above cost.
Here is Over The Cap's attempt at showing it for Geno:
https://overthecap.com/player/geno-smith/2249
At least in their opinion and probably most people's, Geno is better than his contract. Just like Purdy, you can win even with a less than superstar QB playing better than their cost.
Overall, I think we are on the same page. Keep looking for the QB but also keep building a team with players that outplay their cost. Who knows, while you are looking for that QB you may just stumble into creating a good team.
I think early Russ fit this mold, although he might actually have been a top 5 QB. On his rookie deal he was cheap and provided way above average performance. His low cost allowed PC/JS to surround him with an outstanding team. As his cost rose his possibly improved play didn’t outweigh the loss of money to sign other talented players.
I like the route JS is taking so far. I think last year’s offense with a decent defense probably wins at least one playoff game. Hopefully next year’s offense doesn’t regress and Coach McD works his magic on the defense.
Great comment ... nail on the head with the Russ example.
I agree.
I guess it all depends upon how the Hawks feel about Geno. We've talked about Geno to death and my feeling is he doesn't put the Hawks over the top. I'd move on if I could get decent compensation.
I wouldn’t move Geno for anything less than a high first. It’s not that I think he’s that good—it’s that a reliable QB is that valuable to a first-time head coach whose priority is salvaging a bad defense. Geno also allows first-time NFL OC Ryan Grubb leeway that he’s likely to need.
Absolutely.
It is all up to what JS, Mac, and Grubb see. The weird Schefter tweet would be the only thing that I have seen that would lead me to believe that they are looking to move on. That and I think JS really wants to give Lock a shot.
Personally, I am high on Geno. I don't think he is old. I think he is mature and ready. For the Hawks, it's all about building a team around him. Having said that, I would always draft a QB or look to add competition to the room. Also I would be ready to give Lock a shot (if he is still on the team) in a lost season. Same as last year.
I think there should always be competition at every position. Players should always be proving themselves. Including the QB.
Drew has more potential than Geno simply because we haven't seen what he may do when given his head. Maybe Geno was reined-in by Pete last year? He could make that argument. The quality of talent with them both comes quite cheap, to boot, giving JS money to focus elsewhere. I would consider no better place for a butt-kickn rookie QB to train under as a QB3, especially if MM goes with an all-out Rough and Ready attitude. If these new coaches get the guys to seriously buy into making a strong run at the Playoffs, watch out. What Bobby and Will do will speak volumes.
Geno was unbelievable last year from the Dallas game on (after Pete stepped in and Geno got the ball out quicker). And that is behind one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL. The second half of the Titans game, albeit against a bad defense, was essentially a perfect half of QB play outside of 1 or 2 plays. Just a beautiful thing to watch.
I would love to see what Geno can do behind an average offensive line or dare I even think about a good one?
I am also a fan of Lock. If Geno regresses and the season becomes lost, then give him a shot to see what he can do.
Also like drafting a QB if the right guy is there.
Salary aside, I’d suspect 32 of 32 GMs would take Cousins. Though many would surely take Geno factoring in cost. Cousins is the master of bag-getting. I don’t know why any qb would settle for an extension that doesn’t blow them away after seeing what he’s been able to do.
The GMs that were in the QB market the last two years would certainly agree that Cousins is better than Geno. At this point would all 32? Maybe ... maybe not.
As far as stats go... they seem pretty comparable to me. But Cousins also played behind a significantly better offensive line.
Overall? My personal opinion is I would rather have Geno regardless of salary difference. I think he is better. But I think most GMs would prefer Cousins as you said but who knows. He did play an awesome game against the Niners.
He's just a much more productive quarterback. I'm no fan of his, just trying to be objective. I might even argue that 32 of 32 GMs would take Geno on his salary than Cousins on his! Geno is a crazy good deal and better than a serviceable starter. That Cousins' deal is way too steep for an outside of the top 4-5 guy, IMO. This trend of paying good quarterbacks like great ones never seems to work out.
Seems ironic that we may finally have an OC that knows how to integrate the TE's into the offensive attack regularly, and Colby's gone before we see him in it. Best of Luck Colby, except when we play the Rams.
I'm glad the Seahawks are chillin'. Some crazy money getting thrown around right now. Patience Willow (if you get that movie reference, it's worth 1000 pts).
If Schneider thought Colby was worth his offer, he would have matched it.
Guards are getting absolutely bonkers money. No way I'd pay that.
I think it’s the new going rate. Not really commensurate with the cap increase and RBs are getting better bags too! If it’s an overpay, the market should adjust later, but it’s of no help when we need a good guard now.
I just wish we had more draft capital to replace guys like Colby.
We could get some compensation for CP and others who will almost certainly be gone, like Fant, and maybe Lewis, and many others, but replacing them may be difficult without draft capital this year.
Stay patient.
Market not going Seattle's way so far with guard market exploding as well as interior DL.
I would not be willing to go over $20M/yr for Williams. We will see what JS wants to do.
Also, with the guard market increases, I think you have to upgrade the positional value and draft accordingly. Does this mean at 16? Maybe. But I certainly would if it were a multi-positioned player who can play Tackle or Guard. (Fautano?)
I am not worried about tight ends. Sign Dissly or find a blocking TE and draft Westover.
Stay patient! Good work so far
Dissly is now in LA as a Charger.
Or Devin Culp. Brock Bowers looking good at 16.
Absolutely.
Culp was always one of my favorite huskies. Think that guy is talented and a great team player. Would be very happy to keep him in Seattle.
If Bowers falls you have to look at him.
Dang it I liked Colby, I was confident he would stay, shame!
Sorry to see CP go. He was rarely well utilized here and clearly valued highly. He is a red zone nightmare waiting to happen against all opponents.