I just don’t think anyone really has a good read on John Schneider. We know he’s looking to retain the current team culture (because he said so) but nothing really beyond that. He’s playing this pretty close to the vest.
As far as anyone on Xitter having any clue, fuggetaboutit. It’s not called Xitter for nothin’.
Ken you were sceptical of Johnson sticking with the Lions but getting to the NFCCG is soooo close the temptation to stick it out one more year to see if they can get back has to be very strong. I don't see it as a deficiency in the offer the Seahawks or Commanders were possibly making as much as wanting to keep Dan's Band together.
I've only looked at the Field Gulls article and below, and I don't believe that we have ANY idea what transpired in interviews with Schneider or what Johnson's real reasoning was... or even if it was really his decision. E.g., if overall Hawks situation isn't made appealing enough, there's no decision to make. An issue that's not been talked about here, I think, is how much control the new Hawks HC will have. E.g., Will he choose his own coordinators? (I've seen it suggested Schneider will choose. I forget where.) How much input in the draft? I can imagine Schneider, having full control for the first time, being somewhat reluctant to hand over a lot of stuff. As for the $15 million, that looked like it was sourced from Josina Anderson--the number one fabulator of NFL "news" on Twitter. I imagine that if JS found the right guy, they'd be happy to pay $15 million. I'm not sure the Hawks position is that attractive for someone of sound mind.
I mean, is $15M even that much for a head coach? I know the numbers for staff are usually kept private, but for an NFL team that would seem an amount that couldn't possibly "scare anyone away." Certainly considering player contracts.
$15M would have been tied for 3rd, but 2 of the 4 at $15M+ were fired (Belichek and Carroll, who had more roles than just coach). The other two? Peyton and McVay. $15M would have been tied for 2nd behind Peyton and the other 2 are alteady Super Bowl winning coaches.
There’s not much point in speculating as to why. For all we know, his decision to stay in Detroit is family-related and has little to do with football.
Even if his asking price was real news, who phrases information like this?
"I'm told personnel around the league are discussing their awareness that some Owners have been told #Lions OC Ben Johnson's asking price is at least or around $15M/year for a head coach job, per source."
What???
Well, I've been told that some people are thinking about being aware of the thoughts that others could be thinking if those people were thoughtful enough to think thoughts.
You turn down the HC roles once to "complete" something/get some more time under your belt/wait for the right offer. Twice? Somethings feeling distinctly off about Ben to me now.
It's gonna be Kafka isn't it. Honestly it's not the worst outcome, but gives me the feeling of "nice guy, but the one after him will be the succesful star HC". Moons however must be losing their sh*t.
I felt Campbell was addressing losing Johnson next year when he said things will be incredibly more difficult next year. I choose to believe there are many reasons in play. Talk now to the 'Money/ambition' guys who did a 1 and out. He has set a true test of skills when everybody will be gunning for you next year. My bet is they are being quietly sought out by Free Agents. Every viable athlete will want to get in on what is going on there.
Yep. And looking at the second interview candidates. It fells like the plan was to narrow the field to one candidate with a defensive background and one candidate with an offensive background and then make a choice. I think that the Seahawks identified Kafka and possibly Johnson as the OC candidates. I say possibly Johnson because they could be sure Johnson was a choice. Turns out he wasn’t. So it is down to Kafka or a D guy. Don’t know who they like best in the group as the D guy.
I think Kenneth has done a great job, identifying why an offensive minded head coach, who calls plays has the edge in the selection process. I also think that it’s what Green Bay does and I think an awful lot of what John thinks is influence by what he learned in Green Bay. That being said, I think John is going to give everybody an opportunity to talk him out of it. To me the odds favor Kafka, but it doesn’t mean it’s a done deal.
In Brazil we have a word for what the Cowboys did: botafogar. It's based on a (soccer) football team (Botafogo) which usually does just that (starts super strong, then chokes by the end). It's also nice that it sounds like afogar (to drown). We also have the word (actually an expression) that you didn't find in the dictionary: Paraguayan horse. People also use cheirinho (lit: little smell) meaning the team feels the smell of victory but that's just it, the smell.
Speaking of horses, here's my dark horse candidate: Ben McAdoo. You heart it here first.
1) Amy Poehler for President, more of her please and thank you
2) I have mentioned previously and will reiterate here that the position that the best decisions for someone like John Schneider to make are the ones which, in the moment, look like bad ideas to alot of the rest of us.
We are NOT NFL experts, despite reading about the sport and the league every day for decades on end. We know less about football in the NFL than the lowliest assistant on the worst teams (apart from maybe the nepobabies). We perceive good ideas as those which are sold to us as such by the media, ones which mimic decisions that have brought success under similar circumstances, and those which have a face-value benefit. If John Schneider, or any other GM, is to earn their salary and help their team reach and win Super Bowls, they HAVE to be able to bring vision and foresight which is far beyond the ken of the rest of us.
3) I feel like a good scheme on either side of the ball should take a bit of a cue from improv: use "yes, and", play to your strengths, keep em guessing and don't be afraid to be extra.
Example: Ben Johnson, will you look to install a diverse, multi-headed run game that uses motion and ties in with the pass game concepts? Yes, and I have prepared counters to the runs I had the most success with against LA in the playoffs. I will use ZC and K9 in the Monty & Gibbs roles respectively and make use of more 11 personnel runs to keep our excellent trio of WRs on the field more often. I will need to invest heavily in the OL to facilitate this including adding more talent both inside and outside with 2-3 new starters.
Why am I waffling on about this? Because, as we saw with Matt Canada in Pittsburgh, simply parroting schematic trends from other teams isn't enough, you have to understand *why* they work, anticipate how they will be attacked by opposing co-ordinators, link them into your full game plan and identify what skillsets are required for them to work with maximum efficacy. Others have put this simply as "hire a schemer, not a scheme" but I don't believe in brevity.
4) New seasons of The Traitors UK & Australia have been released and are most entertaining
If the Ukraine can elect a comedian as President to successfully handle a crisis, why not Amy P for the USA? Makes sense to me and as a Canadian I fully support that!
And good points in the rest of the post as well. "As flies to wanton boys are we to the NFL GMs; they use us for their sport."
Thank you for the take on challenging Washington as a better opportunity and the connection to Johnson. This entire cycle, whenever I have thrown out my uneducated speculation that we were in the running to land him, person after person challenged that Washing had this or Ben was from that area, etc. While all of those arguments are true you can never know what makes a person tick; sometimes it can be trivial or sometimes it can be significant and sometimes still timing can undermine a choice that otherwise would be made. The fact is we don’t know, and never did. Thank you for your perspective on that.
I just wish I didn’t read that at the same time Johnson announced he is staying. Good for him. Excellent for Detroit.
I’m more confused and conflicted and aware of the lack of control I have in this situation, more than ever.
Good decision, Ben. Good for football. Good for our kids. Good for Detroit. This is about Character and Character matters. A move would have been a Blow to what Campbell is doing, or rather, the commitment the entire Team has to what this sport can do for an entire area. Such magnitude is not reached often, but it has been reached here, as a devastated City finds its' future again. It's about America and the Dream it holds. It's about resiliency, about getting up off the floor. A very powerful, powerful story is being written.
Well, we don’t know if his 15mil asking price was legit, and if it was, if either franchise turned it down. I am sure no details will be shared other than his commitment to Detroit is strong as it ever was. It’s still a good news story and I’ll continue to root for the Lions.
I quit Chess when I found myself thinking in chess-moves. These guys are on a whole different stream of conscious thought. History is being written and we will get the version found most lovable to everyone. It does have an element of a middle finger to Corporate America...
You may be the only writer to frame the news this way, but I agree and it’s nice to see it stated plainly.
$15m/yr asking price (if true) at this point in an ascending career doesn’t bode well for the type of give-and-take partnership we have been led to believe Schneider wants.
The reporting is he turned down the opportunity rather than he didn’t get an offer. I think that is the most likely scenario because both Seattle and the Moons had to go to Detroit to interview him. That is something one does when you are pitching a prospect rather than the prospect is applying. Makes me like Johnson more than ever. The winner is Goff and the Lions.
Going to have give a counter point, Charlie. If I wasn’t sure I was really going to hire someone, I would say “don’t come here; I’ll come to you” If I wanted to hire someone, I would get them to Seattle and roll out the red carpet.
Then this all smoke. They really wanted some else and this was a look good exercise. I just don’t buy it. I think it was pitch and Johnson didn’t go for it. Also why did Washington do the same thing.
Except for our Ken, nobody has discerned what JS is up to. Even then, I believe Witherspoon was #2 behind Anthony Richardson, who got snagged just ahead of us. John had minutes to name our Choice. It's the JS genius. His super power.
There is no such thing as "Twitter". Twitter (or X) is a collection of a zillion individual people some of whom love Dan Cambell and post when he does something good and are quiet at other times. When the fans are quiet, the detracters post. They aren't the same people.
Nobody will be handing out 'take-it-or-leave-it' offers. Agents and their teams will be taking stock for where it sits. Families meet. I expect word tomorrow or by Thursday. It will be an Event.
JS has spent a huge amount of time working on the leadership of this team, especially if it were true that he knew early on that a change were to take place at the end of the season. What if, thinking outside of the 'box', JS wants to design something that will keep the best coordinators with the team without the worry of losing them after a year or two. I don't know how it would work but possibly having a two headed, head coach( the two coordinators). JS would be the ultimate decision maker if needed in certain circumstances. Would that work? I don't know. It would be very tricky to have two people who could work together so closely and be successful. Just a thought that if your're going to make a big change how about a BIG change. Ha ha ha having a little fun with this.
Young McDonald
Per Adam Schefter, Macdonald is the man. See Twitter/X.
I just don’t think anyone really has a good read on John Schneider. We know he’s looking to retain the current team culture (because he said so) but nothing really beyond that. He’s playing this pretty close to the vest.
As far as anyone on Xitter having any clue, fuggetaboutit. It’s not called Xitter for nothin’.
IIRC, the Castillian dialect of Spanish pronounces the "X" with kind of an "sh" sound.
"Xitter" works!
It's down to Kafka vs MacDonald now, looks like.
Ken you were sceptical of Johnson sticking with the Lions but getting to the NFCCG is soooo close the temptation to stick it out one more year to see if they can get back has to be very strong. I don't see it as a deficiency in the offer the Seahawks or Commanders were possibly making as much as wanting to keep Dan's Band together.
I've only looked at the Field Gulls article and below, and I don't believe that we have ANY idea what transpired in interviews with Schneider or what Johnson's real reasoning was... or even if it was really his decision. E.g., if overall Hawks situation isn't made appealing enough, there's no decision to make. An issue that's not been talked about here, I think, is how much control the new Hawks HC will have. E.g., Will he choose his own coordinators? (I've seen it suggested Schneider will choose. I forget where.) How much input in the draft? I can imagine Schneider, having full control for the first time, being somewhat reluctant to hand over a lot of stuff. As for the $15 million, that looked like it was sourced from Josina Anderson--the number one fabulator of NFL "news" on Twitter. I imagine that if JS found the right guy, they'd be happy to pay $15 million. I'm not sure the Hawks position is that attractive for someone of sound mind.
I mean, is $15M even that much for a head coach? I know the numbers for staff are usually kept private, but for an NFL team that would seem an amount that couldn't possibly "scare anyone away." Certainly considering player contracts.
$15M would have been tied for 3rd, but 2 of the 4 at $15M+ were fired (Belichek and Carroll, who had more roles than just coach). The other two? Peyton and McVay. $15M would have been tied for 2nd behind Peyton and the other 2 are alteady Super Bowl winning coaches.
Johnson passed on the Moons as well.
There’s not much point in speculating as to why. For all we know, his decision to stay in Detroit is family-related and has little to do with football.
I read he announced himself not available, thus not wasting time and money for anyone.
Even if his asking price was real news, who phrases information like this?
"I'm told personnel around the league are discussing their awareness that some Owners have been told #Lions OC Ben Johnson's asking price is at least or around $15M/year for a head coach job, per source."
What???
Well, I've been told that some people are thinking about being aware of the thoughts that others could be thinking if those people were thoughtful enough to think thoughts.
Seems a popular sport today is to tell others what they are thinking.
...AI?
You turn down the HC roles once to "complete" something/get some more time under your belt/wait for the right offer. Twice? Somethings feeling distinctly off about Ben to me now.
It's gonna be Kafka isn't it. Honestly it's not the worst outcome, but gives me the feeling of "nice guy, but the one after him will be the succesful star HC". Moons however must be losing their sh*t.
Johnson might not want to be a head coach at this point in his life or to move his family unless someone really ponies up.
I felt Campbell was addressing losing Johnson next year when he said things will be incredibly more difficult next year. I choose to believe there are many reasons in play. Talk now to the 'Money/ambition' guys who did a 1 and out. He has set a true test of skills when everybody will be gunning for you next year. My bet is they are being quietly sought out by Free Agents. Every viable athlete will want to get in on what is going on there.
The Moons loosing S is true.
The Kafka odds just went up. If JS is looking for an offensive guy there's only one left... Kafka.
Yep. And looking at the second interview candidates. It fells like the plan was to narrow the field to one candidate with a defensive background and one candidate with an offensive background and then make a choice. I think that the Seahawks identified Kafka and possibly Johnson as the OC candidates. I say possibly Johnson because they could be sure Johnson was a choice. Turns out he wasn’t. So it is down to Kafka or a D guy. Don’t know who they like best in the group as the D guy.
I think Kenneth has done a great job, identifying why an offensive minded head coach, who calls plays has the edge in the selection process. I also think that it’s what Green Bay does and I think an awful lot of what John thinks is influence by what he learned in Green Bay. That being said, I think John is going to give everybody an opportunity to talk him out of it. To me the odds favor Kafka, but it doesn’t mean it’s a done deal.
In Brazil we have a word for what the Cowboys did: botafogar. It's based on a (soccer) football team (Botafogo) which usually does just that (starts super strong, then chokes by the end). It's also nice that it sounds like afogar (to drown). We also have the word (actually an expression) that you didn't find in the dictionary: Paraguayan horse. People also use cheirinho (lit: little smell) meaning the team feels the smell of victory but that's just it, the smell.
Speaking of horses, here's my dark horse candidate: Ben McAdoo. You heart it here first.
Well, Ben Johnson has stated that he's staying in Detroit for another season. So mark my #1 candidate off of the list.
I should have scrolled before posting! I thought I had breaking news.
Me too.
Well. There we have it. Johnson has not completed The Job in Detroit.
Poor Ben. He's younger than me so I forgive him for his folly, but all us older fans understand that what happened Sunday is simply in the Lion's DNA.
So a few thoughts from this:
1) Amy Poehler for President, more of her please and thank you
2) I have mentioned previously and will reiterate here that the position that the best decisions for someone like John Schneider to make are the ones which, in the moment, look like bad ideas to alot of the rest of us.
We are NOT NFL experts, despite reading about the sport and the league every day for decades on end. We know less about football in the NFL than the lowliest assistant on the worst teams (apart from maybe the nepobabies). We perceive good ideas as those which are sold to us as such by the media, ones which mimic decisions that have brought success under similar circumstances, and those which have a face-value benefit. If John Schneider, or any other GM, is to earn their salary and help their team reach and win Super Bowls, they HAVE to be able to bring vision and foresight which is far beyond the ken of the rest of us.
3) I feel like a good scheme on either side of the ball should take a bit of a cue from improv: use "yes, and", play to your strengths, keep em guessing and don't be afraid to be extra.
Example: Ben Johnson, will you look to install a diverse, multi-headed run game that uses motion and ties in with the pass game concepts? Yes, and I have prepared counters to the runs I had the most success with against LA in the playoffs. I will use ZC and K9 in the Monty & Gibbs roles respectively and make use of more 11 personnel runs to keep our excellent trio of WRs on the field more often. I will need to invest heavily in the OL to facilitate this including adding more talent both inside and outside with 2-3 new starters.
Why am I waffling on about this? Because, as we saw with Matt Canada in Pittsburgh, simply parroting schematic trends from other teams isn't enough, you have to understand *why* they work, anticipate how they will be attacked by opposing co-ordinators, link them into your full game plan and identify what skillsets are required for them to work with maximum efficacy. Others have put this simply as "hire a schemer, not a scheme" but I don't believe in brevity.
4) New seasons of The Traitors UK & Australia have been released and are most entertaining
If the Ukraine can elect a comedian as President to successfully handle a crisis, why not Amy P for the USA? Makes sense to me and as a Canadian I fully support that!
And good points in the rest of the post as well. "As flies to wanton boys are we to the NFL GMs; they use us for their sport."
Ben Johnson did not get a head coach job and will return to the Lions.
Nobody wanted to pay his asking price.
Thank you for the take on challenging Washington as a better opportunity and the connection to Johnson. This entire cycle, whenever I have thrown out my uneducated speculation that we were in the running to land him, person after person challenged that Washing had this or Ben was from that area, etc. While all of those arguments are true you can never know what makes a person tick; sometimes it can be trivial or sometimes it can be significant and sometimes still timing can undermine a choice that otherwise would be made. The fact is we don’t know, and never did. Thank you for your perspective on that.
I just wish I didn’t read that at the same time Johnson announced he is staying. Good for him. Excellent for Detroit.
I’m more confused and conflicted and aware of the lack of control I have in this situation, more than ever.
Good decision, Ben. Good for football. Good for our kids. Good for Detroit. This is about Character and Character matters. A move would have been a Blow to what Campbell is doing, or rather, the commitment the entire Team has to what this sport can do for an entire area. Such magnitude is not reached often, but it has been reached here, as a devastated City finds its' future again. It's about America and the Dream it holds. It's about resiliency, about getting up off the floor. A very powerful, powerful story is being written.
Well, we don’t know if his 15mil asking price was legit, and if it was, if either franchise turned it down. I am sure no details will be shared other than his commitment to Detroit is strong as it ever was. It’s still a good news story and I’ll continue to root for the Lions.
I quit Chess when I found myself thinking in chess-moves. These guys are on a whole different stream of conscious thought. History is being written and we will get the version found most lovable to everyone. It does have an element of a middle finger to Corporate America...
You may be the only writer to frame the news this way, but I agree and it’s nice to see it stated plainly.
$15m/yr asking price (if true) at this point in an ascending career doesn’t bode well for the type of give-and-take partnership we have been led to believe Schneider wants.
Kafka is looking better again!
The reporting is he turned down the opportunity rather than he didn’t get an offer. I think that is the most likely scenario because both Seattle and the Moons had to go to Detroit to interview him. That is something one does when you are pitching a prospect rather than the prospect is applying. Makes me like Johnson more than ever. The winner is Goff and the Lions.
Going to have give a counter point, Charlie. If I wasn’t sure I was really going to hire someone, I would say “don’t come here; I’ll come to you” If I wanted to hire someone, I would get them to Seattle and roll out the red carpet.
Then this all smoke. They really wanted some else and this was a look good exercise. I just don’t buy it. I think it was pitch and Johnson didn’t go for it. Also why did Washington do the same thing.
Except for our Ken, nobody has discerned what JS is up to. Even then, I believe Witherspoon was #2 behind Anthony Richardson, who got snagged just ahead of us. John had minutes to name our Choice. It's the JS genius. His super power.
My 2¢ about Dan Cambell and twitter:
There is no such thing as "Twitter". Twitter (or X) is a collection of a zillion individual people some of whom love Dan Cambell and post when he does something good and are quiet at other times. When the fans are quiet, the detracters post. They aren't the same people.
Nobody will be handing out 'take-it-or-leave-it' offers. Agents and their teams will be taking stock for where it sits. Families meet. I expect word tomorrow or by Thursday. It will be an Event.
JS has spent a huge amount of time working on the leadership of this team, especially if it were true that he knew early on that a change were to take place at the end of the season. What if, thinking outside of the 'box', JS wants to design something that will keep the best coordinators with the team without the worry of losing them after a year or two. I don't know how it would work but possibly having a two headed, head coach( the two coordinators). JS would be the ultimate decision maker if needed in certain circumstances. Would that work? I don't know. It would be very tricky to have two people who could work together so closely and be successful. Just a thought that if your're going to make a big change how about a BIG change. Ha ha ha having a little fun with this.
Today will end with an announcement of some kind. That is my prediction.
Life without Twitter is better than life with Twitter, no question.