I have not read all 87 comments yet, but the performance difference between Offensive lines is the key difference, and something Geno never had. Remember all the injured tackles? Both of them in the first game of the season? Geno was getting pressured at a high rate, but Sam Darnold has had very little pressure to deal with. Some of that is coaching, but having a healthy Cross and Lucas adds a lot to why Sam isn't under a massive amount of pressure. Though PFF has not been kind to our rookie guard, but Zabel hasn't given up ANY sacks and just a single pressure so far this season. I believe that is a vast improvement over last year. Some of it is a quicker release of the ball. We don't seem to use many long developing plays, which we did last year.
I love Sam Darnold, don't get me wrong. His pocket presence seems much better than Geno, and his accuracy is top notch, and maybe even elite. I agree it was a great trade to get something for Geno and replace him with Sam Darnold. But let's give credit to the OLine, too.
The 4 NFC west teams are in the top 5 defense in the NFC.
We are the number 3 offense in the NFC.
And at this early point, scoring margin/ net points we are 5 points behind the leader, the Lions. The next team near to us is the Vikings, they are 22 points points behind us.
I like where we are right now and like Joe points out we are a much better team than the one last year that won ten games. Going down the stretch last year we lost 5 of 8.
We seem to have found an amazing OC in Klint. I hope we can keep him awhile before somebody steals him away. It seems like right now there is a lot of turnover at that position. They either get fired or hired away. Maybe he will like all the winning and stay awhile.
I feel like everyone’s so high on us after a prime time win. I’m notably a pessimistic perfectionist who bleeds action green, but i still think this team is a tier 2 team until (1) it shows it can move the ball methodically/keep our defense off the field for several drives in the same game. And (2) the defense holds strong against a top tier QB.
While our early schedule was *slightly* harder than last year, these next 3 games tell us a lot. Bucs are a complete though not perfect team, great chance for our defense to earn the top-5 status. Bucs, Jags, and Texans will show us a lot of our offensive limits (or hopefully lack thereof)
SJ that Trevor quote what an awesome find. I really laughed out loud when I read it. Well said. And I loved the part that we still have several of the same defensive players from PCs last year. First it was the Nordstroms, then later Paul, but we’ve had some very good coaches. And thank you JS for staying ahead of the curve.
Once, in another life, a card shark said to me, "I'd rather be lucky than good!" My reply was, "I'd rather be both.". Is Sam really that good or just lucky to be surrounded by "good"? BOTH! It's still a team sport and Sam, a very good QB, with an embarrassement of great, albiet young, talent is going to make some serious noise this year. So much noise in fact that I am quivering with anticipation for when the national pundits and sports networks will be forced, kicking and screaming and whining all the way, to acknowledge the existance of the Seahawks! IN YOUR FACE!! GO HAWKS!
Yeah, I think that if Geno and Sam had both been able to go to a better team than the Jets, their careers would have started differently. They're good and they were unlucky. As a draft pick, sometimes being good is the same as being unlucky if you're a high draft pick. Darnold's handled the pressure well this season and Geno has not.
Really good article! Of course I'm gonna love an article that pumps my team up, but this feels more grounded and logical pointing out several differences from other scenarios. I just keep seeing instances where the coaching is the main change and therefore leads me to think the coaching is the main driver of the positive changes in the organization. Keep hitting on draft picks and we'll be a dynasty in no time.
Getting the guys to buy into ALL of it. Not some, ALL (I count Woolen a late arrival). It could be argued that last year's new guys didn't get a fair shake, so faithfully committing to see they get a full shot at getting expert has gone a long way to binding and bonding this Team. Watching the guys we snapped up excel points at sad coaching is why they dropped in the cut. It gives me quiet pleasure to know Woolen is horrified at how easily he can be replaced. I don't expect apologies will go too far... He wants to be a hired gun? Great. You got it.
Yes! The talented coaching and systemic changes are but one leg of a winning trifecta that includes a talented QB supported by a very talented young team...on O, D AND Special Teams. Throw in a Ready Squad that, thus far, has stepped up big time and I can smell playoffs in the wind.
Yeah this Darnold thing is REALLY impressive -- and it's been four games now, lots could still go unhinged but so far he just really seems to be inside himself.
I must admit I thought Geno's strengths outweighed his weaknesses, and feared we'd be for the worse without him (less so DK). And Darnold really felt risky although the contract was relatively acceptable. Felt like a budget solution, heavily dependent on strengthening the OL, and when we didn't sign any of the big-name guards I feared the worst.
But Geno is imploding, reminding me of "bad Geno" which none of us will forget (still can't believe he had the chuptza to mention Jordan and Kobe as similar to his will to win). Cannot BELIEVE how fast I've gotten over Geno and how quickly I've accepted Darnold. By "accepted" I mean that if he has a bad game, I'll just treat it as rhat, rather than it characterize him. He's savvy, will throw it away, doesn't act like he has Superman carved on hos chest etc. And he's surprisingly accurate -- don't know why I thought he wouldn't be, am just pleasantly surprised. And now that teams have to double JSN and we have a couple dangerous TE's, our offense is quite good.
So I gotta eat my words on Darnold. Great job by Schneider
To be honest, I saw the Geno/Sam choices as lose/lose. It's nice to be wrong. Plus we have the makings of a truly superior talent-in-waiting with Milroe. I suspect Lock is on par with Sam's skill level. We'll go through this year and next before Drew firms up his skills and he's snapped up as a true starter somewhere. No doubt Carroll already knows what he can do.
I think Schneider reflected on being in the same division as McVay and Shanahan, and realized how badly he was being outcoached, he could have gone for a 3rd offensive genius (Ben Johnson?) or the antidote, a defensive/running game guy. I'm so glad he went for the antidote -- bc in addition to it being arguably the more effective strategy (so many "Mr Offense" failures there are out there), it's also what's associated with our 2013 killer team. In fact Pete was considered quite the defensive genius with Cover 3 -- maybe Schneider is just going back to the future now with Coach Mac
The national media if finally getting a clue about the Seahawks, and what we knew months ago. “The Athletic” did a recap video after the Thursday night game, and Robert Mays said, “I’m going to have to eat some crow. The Seahawks are a really good team, and Darnold is as good as last year.” Derrick Klassen (sp) said, “I was wrong about the Seahawks.” Both has the Seahawks as a playoff team, where Klassen actually had the “under” on then and stated a drastic step back losing Geno, DK and Tyler. He said they were rebuilding. It never made sense to me, but I doubt either bothered to really look at the Hawks at all until Thursday night. We’ll have a chance in 2 weeks to showcase again on Monday Night.
I believe the truth of the matter is that Geno had a half a season stretch of 2022 where he played much better than he is. Ever since the 2nd half of the 2022 season he's played as he truly is... a guy who can make some great throws but is careless with the ball if he doesn't have great blocking.
In my eyes Sam and Geno have similar talent but because Sam is getting better blocking (the Raider O-line is terrible) and coaching he's performing better than Geno. And because Sam's contract is so much more team friendly, moving on from Geno was always the best move.
There was also the final stretch in 2023. Geno Smith was the second-best QB in the league from week 13 on in 2023 (per EPA) even though Share Waldron was his coordinator.
Week 13 at Dallas: 23/41 for 334 yards and 3 TDs / 1 Int
Week 16 at Tenn: 25/36 227 yards 2 TDs / 0 Int
Week 17 Pitt: 23/33 290 yards 1 TD / 0 Int
Week 18 at Zona: 16/28 189 yards 2 TDs / 0 Int
Also added 69 yards rushing and a TD on the ground.
Over that 4-game stretch Geno had a higher Expected Points Added per play (0.328) than Sam Darnold has had this year (0.285).
hah, hah ~ "Now they (the mainstream media) just sort of pretend like they always liked Sam Darnold, and by the way the Raiders aren’t the only team feeling the impact of the offseason QB carousel."
Honestly, I wasn’t surprised by the offseason narratives about how the Seahawks were rebuilding and were going to be worse off by getting rid of Geno and DK. Nor am I surprised that this team is having the current level of success and that all the naysayers are now acting like they didn’t say those things. #LANK (btw this clip still cracks me up https://youtube.com/shorts/xJs6ff3YlNU?si=r3ktwAmy4MearAHZ)
I have to give Joe credit for maintaining a sense of logic and calm that all signs were pointing up for this team.
This season is fascinating from the QB perspective.
Vikings said the last two games Darnold played were so bad that they let him walk. (Could those two games be the most important games for the Seahawks organization if Darnold continues his play? Crazy ... but that is the NFL)
Seahawks made a weak attempt to extend Geno and instead chose to trade him for a 3rd round pick and put their weight behind a player coming off two bad games in big moments but has talent and played well for most in 2024 year. A player that may be suffering from stigma (the perception of him is worse than he actually is (underrated and therefore cheap) from his first years in the league but who has steadily improved. Added to the mix was the familiarity with the newly hired OC.
Raiders said no chance to Darnold and after attempting to get Stafford decided to move onto Geno, a player familiar with the HC and O Coordinator. A player with high pedigree in terms of accuracy and big play ability but older (34 years old) and turnover concerns. However, as HC Pete pointed out, didn't take a hit for years so the projections were higher. Geno also had apparently been talking with new head coach Pete Carroll all year.
Place your bets!
Well, so far, John Schneider has been the winner. Plain and Simple.
Geno Smith has had his two worst games since 2022 (his second" career), by far, in the first 4 weeks. Combining turnovers with a lack of big plays. Now they head into a team that is good (Hello Daniel Jones) on the road and could drop to 1-4 on a 4-game losing streak. The pressure is ratcheting up quickly on the Pete and Geno era after a terrible loss at home to the Bears (interestingly, both the Hawks game and Raiders game came down to a just over 50 yard field goal. One miss, one make ... makes a huge difference for the fan bases/media/team projections etc. That is the fine line and beauty of football).
Meanwhile, the main concerns (from the Vikings point of view) around Darnold were his worst games in 2024 were so bad that his team moved on. Darnold hasn't shown those bad games through 4 games. Although game 1 and the first half of game 2 weren't great. But also not to be unexpected with all the changes. Darnold has by and large gotten the ball out in rhythm, on time, and accurate. Cultivating a strong relationship with top WR JSN. SD has also made big plays in big moments. A spin move 3rd down in Pitt followed by a feathery touch to TE Barner. A 3rd and 6th perfectly thrown pass to best player JSN.
The Vikings (and the Seahawks tried) decided to plow money into the Offensive Line in the offseason and won the bidding war against Seattle for a guard. While simultaneously turning over the reins to a "rookie" JJ McCarthy. Was KOC arrogant in thinking any QB will do in his system? This strategy appears to have undervalued Darnold's addition to the team while overweighting the coaches ability to put any QB in and win. Also, the investments in the O-line have not paid off so far.
Through 4 weeks, the NFL has been as expected, fascinating with the John Schneider led Hawks leading the high stakes game of QB poker.
Keep it rolling SD! If the first 4 weeks are the next 13 weeks, watch out.
Let's realize the team dynamics of individuals fighting for a piece of the pie over a team firmly fixed on WINNING. If Sam harbors "an issue" then no doubt he has let MM in on it. I can see us bringing in Lock if the "issue" flares up, no doubt, at the absolute worst time possible. Maybe he's fighting "the flu" that day? Next man up. Relieve the pressure and hit it again when sanity prevails. No big deal.
I think a big part in the musical chairs of GBs is Klint was hired and did an evaluation of the talent and that influenced what happened. We could have had a new OC who would have said we needed to keep Geno, lucky for us we got Klint and I am sure he influenced MM/JS to bail on Geno and get Sam.
I have not read all 87 comments yet, but the performance difference between Offensive lines is the key difference, and something Geno never had. Remember all the injured tackles? Both of them in the first game of the season? Geno was getting pressured at a high rate, but Sam Darnold has had very little pressure to deal with. Some of that is coaching, but having a healthy Cross and Lucas adds a lot to why Sam isn't under a massive amount of pressure. Though PFF has not been kind to our rookie guard, but Zabel hasn't given up ANY sacks and just a single pressure so far this season. I believe that is a vast improvement over last year. Some of it is a quicker release of the ball. We don't seem to use many long developing plays, which we did last year.
I love Sam Darnold, don't get me wrong. His pocket presence seems much better than Geno, and his accuracy is top notch, and maybe even elite. I agree it was a great trade to get something for Geno and replace him with Sam Darnold. But let's give credit to the OLine, too.
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1D8MW9yDW4/?mibextid=wwXIfr
Early in the season but,
The 4 NFC west teams are in the top 5 defense in the NFC.
We are the number 3 offense in the NFC.
And at this early point, scoring margin/ net points we are 5 points behind the leader, the Lions. The next team near to us is the Vikings, they are 22 points points behind us.
I like where we are right now and like Joe points out we are a much better team than the one last year that won ten games. Going down the stretch last year we lost 5 of 8.
We seem to have found an amazing OC in Klint. I hope we can keep him awhile before somebody steals him away. It seems like right now there is a lot of turnover at that position. They either get fired or hired away. Maybe he will like all the winning and stay awhile.
We see Saleh is back in Frisco as DC. Being HC isn't as easy as promised? Let's hope coaches start taking their time before jumping out.
I feel like everyone’s so high on us after a prime time win. I’m notably a pessimistic perfectionist who bleeds action green, but i still think this team is a tier 2 team until (1) it shows it can move the ball methodically/keep our defense off the field for several drives in the same game. And (2) the defense holds strong against a top tier QB.
While our early schedule was *slightly* harder than last year, these next 3 games tell us a lot. Bucs are a complete though not perfect team, great chance for our defense to earn the top-5 status. Bucs, Jags, and Texans will show us a lot of our offensive limits (or hopefully lack thereof)
I put the Eagles and Lions on tier 1 and not the Seahawks. I just don't find myself overly impressed with the other NFC teams on tier 2 or tier 3 yet.
It just hit me. Here's what Pete's going to do to solve his unexpected Geno problem:
He's going to trade a conditional 7th to the Giants....
For Russell Wilson.
Nice idea, I'd love to see it
Oh hell yes.
SJ that Trevor quote what an awesome find. I really laughed out loud when I read it. Well said. And I loved the part that we still have several of the same defensive players from PCs last year. First it was the Nordstroms, then later Paul, but we’ve had some very good coaches. And thank you JS for staying ahead of the curve.
Once, in another life, a card shark said to me, "I'd rather be lucky than good!" My reply was, "I'd rather be both.". Is Sam really that good or just lucky to be surrounded by "good"? BOTH! It's still a team sport and Sam, a very good QB, with an embarrassement of great, albiet young, talent is going to make some serious noise this year. So much noise in fact that I am quivering with anticipation for when the national pundits and sports networks will be forced, kicking and screaming and whining all the way, to acknowledge the existance of the Seahawks! IN YOUR FACE!! GO HAWKS!
Yeah, I think that if Geno and Sam had both been able to go to a better team than the Jets, their careers would have started differently. They're good and they were unlucky. As a draft pick, sometimes being good is the same as being unlucky if you're a high draft pick. Darnold's handled the pressure well this season and Geno has not.
Really good article! Of course I'm gonna love an article that pumps my team up, but this feels more grounded and logical pointing out several differences from other scenarios. I just keep seeing instances where the coaching is the main change and therefore leads me to think the coaching is the main driver of the positive changes in the organization. Keep hitting on draft picks and we'll be a dynasty in no time.
Getting the guys to buy into ALL of it. Not some, ALL (I count Woolen a late arrival). It could be argued that last year's new guys didn't get a fair shake, so faithfully committing to see they get a full shot at getting expert has gone a long way to binding and bonding this Team. Watching the guys we snapped up excel points at sad coaching is why they dropped in the cut. It gives me quiet pleasure to know Woolen is horrified at how easily he can be replaced. I don't expect apologies will go too far... He wants to be a hired gun? Great. You got it.
Yes! The talented coaching and systemic changes are but one leg of a winning trifecta that includes a talented QB supported by a very talented young team...on O, D AND Special Teams. Throw in a Ready Squad that, thus far, has stepped up big time and I can smell playoffs in the wind.
Yeah this Darnold thing is REALLY impressive -- and it's been four games now, lots could still go unhinged but so far he just really seems to be inside himself.
I must admit I thought Geno's strengths outweighed his weaknesses, and feared we'd be for the worse without him (less so DK). And Darnold really felt risky although the contract was relatively acceptable. Felt like a budget solution, heavily dependent on strengthening the OL, and when we didn't sign any of the big-name guards I feared the worst.
But Geno is imploding, reminding me of "bad Geno" which none of us will forget (still can't believe he had the chuptza to mention Jordan and Kobe as similar to his will to win). Cannot BELIEVE how fast I've gotten over Geno and how quickly I've accepted Darnold. By "accepted" I mean that if he has a bad game, I'll just treat it as rhat, rather than it characterize him. He's savvy, will throw it away, doesn't act like he has Superman carved on hos chest etc. And he's surprisingly accurate -- don't know why I thought he wouldn't be, am just pleasantly surprised. And now that teams have to double JSN and we have a couple dangerous TE's, our offense is quite good.
So I gotta eat my words on Darnold. Great job by Schneider
To be honest, I saw the Geno/Sam choices as lose/lose. It's nice to be wrong. Plus we have the makings of a truly superior talent-in-waiting with Milroe. I suspect Lock is on par with Sam's skill level. We'll go through this year and next before Drew firms up his skills and he's snapped up as a true starter somewhere. No doubt Carroll already knows what he can do.
Let me make room for you on the Sam Darnold bandwagon.
Commenting on the defense:
I think Schneider reflected on being in the same division as McVay and Shanahan, and realized how badly he was being outcoached, he could have gone for a 3rd offensive genius (Ben Johnson?) or the antidote, a defensive/running game guy. I'm so glad he went for the antidote -- bc in addition to it being arguably the more effective strategy (so many "Mr Offense" failures there are out there), it's also what's associated with our 2013 killer team. In fact Pete was considered quite the defensive genius with Cover 3 -- maybe Schneider is just going back to the future now with Coach Mac
The national media if finally getting a clue about the Seahawks, and what we knew months ago. “The Athletic” did a recap video after the Thursday night game, and Robert Mays said, “I’m going to have to eat some crow. The Seahawks are a really good team, and Darnold is as good as last year.” Derrick Klassen (sp) said, “I was wrong about the Seahawks.” Both has the Seahawks as a playoff team, where Klassen actually had the “under” on then and stated a drastic step back losing Geno, DK and Tyler. He said they were rebuilding. It never made sense to me, but I doubt either bothered to really look at the Hawks at all until Thursday night. We’ll have a chance in 2 weeks to showcase again on Monday Night.
I believe the truth of the matter is that Geno had a half a season stretch of 2022 where he played much better than he is. Ever since the 2nd half of the 2022 season he's played as he truly is... a guy who can make some great throws but is careless with the ball if he doesn't have great blocking.
In my eyes Sam and Geno have similar talent but because Sam is getting better blocking (the Raider O-line is terrible) and coaching he's performing better than Geno. And because Sam's contract is so much more team friendly, moving on from Geno was always the best move.
There was also the final stretch in 2023. Geno Smith was the second-best QB in the league from week 13 on in 2023 (per EPA) even though Share Waldron was his coordinator.
Week 13 at Dallas: 23/41 for 334 yards and 3 TDs / 1 Int
Week 16 at Tenn: 25/36 227 yards 2 TDs / 0 Int
Week 17 Pitt: 23/33 290 yards 1 TD / 0 Int
Week 18 at Zona: 16/28 189 yards 2 TDs / 0 Int
Also added 69 yards rushing and a TD on the ground.
Over that 4-game stretch Geno had a higher Expected Points Added per play (0.328) than Sam Darnold has had this year (0.285).
Too bad he couldn't maintain that.
Yes … that is too bad.
hah, hah ~ "Now they (the mainstream media) just sort of pretend like they always liked Sam Darnold, and by the way the Raiders aren’t the only team feeling the impact of the offseason QB carousel."
Love the tweet from Boland!
Honestly, I wasn’t surprised by the offseason narratives about how the Seahawks were rebuilding and were going to be worse off by getting rid of Geno and DK. Nor am I surprised that this team is having the current level of success and that all the naysayers are now acting like they didn’t say those things. #LANK (btw this clip still cracks me up https://youtube.com/shorts/xJs6ff3YlNU?si=r3ktwAmy4MearAHZ)
I have to give Joe credit for maintaining a sense of logic and calm that all signs were pointing up for this team.
... that clip is funny, Thanks, Defjames.
I have been out of town for a bit, so here are my comments for the past 5 articles...... Begaw, Begaw, Begaw, Begaw, and BEGAW!!!!
I can Begaw that.
Begaw thirded
This season is fascinating from the QB perspective.
Vikings said the last two games Darnold played were so bad that they let him walk. (Could those two games be the most important games for the Seahawks organization if Darnold continues his play? Crazy ... but that is the NFL)
Seahawks made a weak attempt to extend Geno and instead chose to trade him for a 3rd round pick and put their weight behind a player coming off two bad games in big moments but has talent and played well for most in 2024 year. A player that may be suffering from stigma (the perception of him is worse than he actually is (underrated and therefore cheap) from his first years in the league but who has steadily improved. Added to the mix was the familiarity with the newly hired OC.
Raiders said no chance to Darnold and after attempting to get Stafford decided to move onto Geno, a player familiar with the HC and O Coordinator. A player with high pedigree in terms of accuracy and big play ability but older (34 years old) and turnover concerns. However, as HC Pete pointed out, didn't take a hit for years so the projections were higher. Geno also had apparently been talking with new head coach Pete Carroll all year.
Place your bets!
Well, so far, John Schneider has been the winner. Plain and Simple.
Geno Smith has had his two worst games since 2022 (his second" career), by far, in the first 4 weeks. Combining turnovers with a lack of big plays. Now they head into a team that is good (Hello Daniel Jones) on the road and could drop to 1-4 on a 4-game losing streak. The pressure is ratcheting up quickly on the Pete and Geno era after a terrible loss at home to the Bears (interestingly, both the Hawks game and Raiders game came down to a just over 50 yard field goal. One miss, one make ... makes a huge difference for the fan bases/media/team projections etc. That is the fine line and beauty of football).
Meanwhile, the main concerns (from the Vikings point of view) around Darnold were his worst games in 2024 were so bad that his team moved on. Darnold hasn't shown those bad games through 4 games. Although game 1 and the first half of game 2 weren't great. But also not to be unexpected with all the changes. Darnold has by and large gotten the ball out in rhythm, on time, and accurate. Cultivating a strong relationship with top WR JSN. SD has also made big plays in big moments. A spin move 3rd down in Pitt followed by a feathery touch to TE Barner. A 3rd and 6th perfectly thrown pass to best player JSN.
The Vikings (and the Seahawks tried) decided to plow money into the Offensive Line in the offseason and won the bidding war against Seattle for a guard. While simultaneously turning over the reins to a "rookie" JJ McCarthy. Was KOC arrogant in thinking any QB will do in his system? This strategy appears to have undervalued Darnold's addition to the team while overweighting the coaches ability to put any QB in and win. Also, the investments in the O-line have not paid off so far.
Through 4 weeks, the NFL has been as expected, fascinating with the John Schneider led Hawks leading the high stakes game of QB poker.
Keep it rolling SD! If the first 4 weeks are the next 13 weeks, watch out.
Go Hawks.
Let's realize the team dynamics of individuals fighting for a piece of the pie over a team firmly fixed on WINNING. If Sam harbors "an issue" then no doubt he has let MM in on it. I can see us bringing in Lock if the "issue" flares up, no doubt, at the absolute worst time possible. Maybe he's fighting "the flu" that day? Next man up. Relieve the pressure and hit it again when sanity prevails. No big deal.
I think a big part in the musical chairs of GBs is Klint was hired and did an evaluation of the talent and that influenced what happened. We could have had a new OC who would have said we needed to keep Geno, lucky for us we got Klint and I am sure he influenced MM/JS to bail on Geno and get Sam.