Gary Beban- QB and Heisman winner at UCLA. Drafted Round 2. Played 2 years then gone. Steve Spurrier-QB and Heisman winner at Florida. Drafted Round 1, pick 3. Played 10 years as a backup. Great football coach. Terry Baker-QB and Heisman winner at Oregon State. Drafted Round 1 pick 1. Lasted 2 years in NFL. Couldn’t throw long. He did help Oregon State basketball team to the Final Four. Drafting a quarterback is a different beast.
So besides DT, what is our weakest link on the Seahawks team? I saw recently an analyst saying that the nickel corner is the third most critical position on the defense, and the hardest corner position to fill. Having watched the Seahawks for decades I can say without hesitation that the nickel corner position has been the weakest link on this team for as long as I can remember.
Last year our run defense eclipsed the nickel corner position for weakest link, but our second weakest link was again, our nickel corner, played by rookie Coby Bryant, who gave up a QB rating of somewhere in the neighborhood of 120 QB rating. That is bad, but Coby managed to be a ball hawk and just missed getting credit for more than one interception as well as forcing three or more fumbles. Those were Coby's saving grace, but it didn't erase that QB rating of 120.
Some have suggested Coby will improve this year and all is well, and that is a possibility for sure, and one I hope for if nothing else changes. However, it has occurred to me that the Hawks may change their normal tactic of never drafting a CB earlier than the 90th pick this year if there is an opportunity to permanently plug that oh so difficult to plug hole on our defense with an early pick.
I have heard people say that Witherspoon is a natural nickel cornerback. Though, he could play outside corner, he has all the skills to play the nickel corner position at a very high level. If Pete and John feel the same way, perhaps they will use our #5 pick on Witherspoon as an alternative to trading down, taking Carter, or being forced to use the pick on a guard or WR.
Personally, If I had not thought of this, I would have been shocked to see them draft a CB in the first round like everyone else here. But now, I am not so sure. I hate that teams abuse our defense almost at will on third downs because we cannot stop the slop receiver from getting open.
I have my doubts Coby Bryant is the answer at nickel cornerback, and so I'd be OK with fixing this problem with a high pick.
If everyone is healthy, we may see more Love and less Coby on the field in that nickel role. I get the feeling that they don't expect any surprises from Coby and that maybe he's already about as good as he's going to get.
That is a great point. And I've been thinking about it since you wrote that, and do you think that means they will likely use Love as either the third safety in non-nickel situations, and as a nickel in nickel situations, and therefore will be on the field 100% of the time? Or will we ever go back to 4-3 or true 3-4-4 in which case Love will come off the field? Because if they will never use a true 3-4-4 or go back to 4-3-4 then I am not sure I see much necessity of drafting another LBer.
If Adams can stay healthy and play at the level we hope, then you've got Love as a SS/nickel hybrid and Adams as a SS/LB hybrid. I believe Pete when he says those two plus Diggs will be on the field at the same time a lot. In my mind we're replacing playing time from last year's combo of Neal, Bryant and Barton with just these two guys who are hopefully way better than all three of them. Bwagz in the middle like the good ol' days and when Brooks is back they have even more options. Injuries will happen and depth is important, so Coby and Bush will play, but I don't think their roles will be that big unless other guys go down. I wouldn't expect any safety or ILB they draft to have anything more than a backup role as a rookie, but sometimes we get nice surprises in round 5.
We don't know what the conversation with Neal was, but I imagine he wanted the chance to start (and deserves it!) and he wasn't going to get it in Seattle without more injuries ahead of him on the depth chart.
So, in my mind, that reduces emphasis on LB, and explains continued interest in the safety position (interviews mostly) but leaves the door open for more LB/Safety hybrid players of which I can think of more than a couple that might fit that description in this draft from both the LB and Safety positions. Skinner and Pace come to mind immediately. I also see Nolan Smith as an off ball LB if he is taken.
I agree about Neal, he deserves to start somewhere. Coby probably comes in on dime packages, unless Tre Brown beats him out. I'm having problems using all our draft picks without doubling and tripling up on some positions like DL.
Right. No matter how we imagine packaging our current personnel together out there, DL and edge/OLB continue to stand out as our greatest need for some pro bowl level talent. Hopefully Dre'mont Jones and Nwosu are close, but it'd be wonderful to have one or two guys playing at that level on a rookie deal for a few years. Carter at #5 (if he's there) just seems like such a worthwhile gamble to me the closer we get to draft day.
Yea, the more I understand what they have done already, the more I see DL as the first and second most important position to draft. We have one starting slot open and three potential backup spots open.
OLB is always on the table, but if no value shows up, I'm not expecting them to reach for need. Edge is a fairly thick class this year, if not strong at the top, so they might wait for rotational pieces.
The more I think about it, the more I would like to see a list of players in front of me. This is like the best computer games that always made me start writing things down to keep track of things. The actual openings on the 53 don't allow for every draftee this year to make that team. We might even draft a LS if we don't have one signed.
That is why I advise caution to people when contemplating drafting a QB. You cannot draft a developmental QB and stash him on the practice squad unless you draft him very very late, and still you have to have no attachment to him if you stash him on the practice squad. If we draft one early we will carry three QB's almost certainly.
Great piece and fantastic questions (not ones you see elsewhere!)
I would take issue with her answer to #1 tho. Pete found gold with Russ in round 3 AND THEN IMMEDIATELY DID IT AGAIN W GENO. Rare or not the guy has done it twice in a row so he has to be at least entertaining the idea he can do it again.
New tweet from Schefter says there are 6 teams that want to trade up with the Cardinals. I guess the Seahawks could be one but this makes me think a good portion of the league wants to move up for a QB or is Will Anderson generating this much interest?
This seems like one of those clickbaity kinda these to say without really saying anything. The suggestion is that at least six teams want to trade up for a QB. The reality is probably that a bunch of teams are talking to the Cards GM about what a draft-day trade might look like in the event the first two picks play out a certain way. There's only ten minutes between picks to make a potentially franchise-altering decision. Every year GMs lay the ground work for these types of deals ahead of time because you have to given the draft day time constraints. My guess is the Arizona GM's phone rings a lot more if the Texans draft a non-QB at #2.
Wow that’s why I like Miah and Seaside Joe. JSN remains my dark horse at 5. He just fits what they want to do on offense. I keep thinking this would be an easy draft with the 9th and 10th pick (JSN and Robinson because that is where they should and probably will go) instead of the 5th and the 20th.
It seems like if one WR is gonna go higher than expected it would be JSN. If there were someway to guarantee that I'd be getting Doug Baldwin in his prime (or better) on the #5 pick rookie contract, I'd say sign me up for that!
Guarantees and the draft are mutually exclusive terms. What I know is that his shuttle was elite, his lower body is close to a running back and his hands are excellent. At best I have him as a hybrid Doug / Debo receiver. The biggest risk are the lack of separation at the college level means he can be covered man to man at the pro level and injuries. The thing I like best is something Chris Simms observed that
when the defensive back had JSN covered for a short gain JSN consistently made him miss. I don’t think JSN is a number 1 receiver because of the lack top end speed but I think he is a very good to great number 2 in a couple of years and a great number 3 his rookie year. Sort of like Doug Baldwin come to think of it.
I will vote for a Baldwin clone. Sadly, I don't think Baldwin was ever fully appreciated by the Seattle fans, but even more nationally. He got separation at an incredible rate. Immediately, right off the line because of his feet. I loved his game. Wilson never used him as much as he should have.
Congrats on 1500!! I started reading your newsletter my first year out of college. I had it sent to my work inbox, and whenever it came in, it would kick off my coffee/water cooler break. Here's to many more great newsletters!
One thing I have always liked about Pete Carroll is his positivity. He isn’t over zealous but a good balance; of course his glass isn’t 1/2 full but 3/4 full. Go Hawks! Go Seaside Joe!
I know the QB is a different beast, but Seattle had their greatest success when the team was full of personalities and egos: Marshawn, Sherm, Earl, Bennett and Tate to name a few. I don’t think Pete would be concerned about any of these top five QBs derailing the locker room.
McDude is obviously very McOld. I recognize the names, they're QB's of old, but I'm fuzzy what the connection to the previous comment was.
When I saw you comment to "MDude" I thought you were kidding him or something, but then I saw his name really is McDude, so wow, McDude, welcome to SJ comments. amiright?
Congratulations my friend...Thank you so much for what you do .
MK for MD (Roman numeral). Thanks Ken, and congratulations on this great accomplishment -
I’m a Seasider, thanks for gathering, leading & entertaining our community!
Thomas, I was just agreeing with you. I use to live at the airport and everything went over my head. Lol. Take care. 😊
Great questions for Mina.
Gary Beban- QB and Heisman winner at UCLA. Drafted Round 2. Played 2 years then gone. Steve Spurrier-QB and Heisman winner at Florida. Drafted Round 1, pick 3. Played 10 years as a backup. Great football coach. Terry Baker-QB and Heisman winner at Oregon State. Drafted Round 1 pick 1. Lasted 2 years in NFL. Couldn’t throw long. He did help Oregon State basketball team to the Final Four. Drafting a quarterback is a different beast.
So besides DT, what is our weakest link on the Seahawks team? I saw recently an analyst saying that the nickel corner is the third most critical position on the defense, and the hardest corner position to fill. Having watched the Seahawks for decades I can say without hesitation that the nickel corner position has been the weakest link on this team for as long as I can remember.
Last year our run defense eclipsed the nickel corner position for weakest link, but our second weakest link was again, our nickel corner, played by rookie Coby Bryant, who gave up a QB rating of somewhere in the neighborhood of 120 QB rating. That is bad, but Coby managed to be a ball hawk and just missed getting credit for more than one interception as well as forcing three or more fumbles. Those were Coby's saving grace, but it didn't erase that QB rating of 120.
Some have suggested Coby will improve this year and all is well, and that is a possibility for sure, and one I hope for if nothing else changes. However, it has occurred to me that the Hawks may change their normal tactic of never drafting a CB earlier than the 90th pick this year if there is an opportunity to permanently plug that oh so difficult to plug hole on our defense with an early pick.
I have heard people say that Witherspoon is a natural nickel cornerback. Though, he could play outside corner, he has all the skills to play the nickel corner position at a very high level. If Pete and John feel the same way, perhaps they will use our #5 pick on Witherspoon as an alternative to trading down, taking Carter, or being forced to use the pick on a guard or WR.
Personally, If I had not thought of this, I would have been shocked to see them draft a CB in the first round like everyone else here. But now, I am not so sure. I hate that teams abuse our defense almost at will on third downs because we cannot stop the slop receiver from getting open.
I have my doubts Coby Bryant is the answer at nickel cornerback, and so I'd be OK with fixing this problem with a high pick.
If everyone is healthy, we may see more Love and less Coby on the field in that nickel role. I get the feeling that they don't expect any surprises from Coby and that maybe he's already about as good as he's going to get.
That is a great point. And I've been thinking about it since you wrote that, and do you think that means they will likely use Love as either the third safety in non-nickel situations, and as a nickel in nickel situations, and therefore will be on the field 100% of the time? Or will we ever go back to 4-3 or true 3-4-4 in which case Love will come off the field? Because if they will never use a true 3-4-4 or go back to 4-3-4 then I am not sure I see much necessity of drafting another LBer.
If Adams can stay healthy and play at the level we hope, then you've got Love as a SS/nickel hybrid and Adams as a SS/LB hybrid. I believe Pete when he says those two plus Diggs will be on the field at the same time a lot. In my mind we're replacing playing time from last year's combo of Neal, Bryant and Barton with just these two guys who are hopefully way better than all three of them. Bwagz in the middle like the good ol' days and when Brooks is back they have even more options. Injuries will happen and depth is important, so Coby and Bush will play, but I don't think their roles will be that big unless other guys go down. I wouldn't expect any safety or ILB they draft to have anything more than a backup role as a rookie, but sometimes we get nice surprises in round 5.
We don't know what the conversation with Neal was, but I imagine he wanted the chance to start (and deserves it!) and he wasn't going to get it in Seattle without more injuries ahead of him on the depth chart.
So, in my mind, that reduces emphasis on LB, and explains continued interest in the safety position (interviews mostly) but leaves the door open for more LB/Safety hybrid players of which I can think of more than a couple that might fit that description in this draft from both the LB and Safety positions. Skinner and Pace come to mind immediately. I also see Nolan Smith as an off ball LB if he is taken.
I agree about Neal, he deserves to start somewhere. Coby probably comes in on dime packages, unless Tre Brown beats him out. I'm having problems using all our draft picks without doubling and tripling up on some positions like DL.
Right. No matter how we imagine packaging our current personnel together out there, DL and edge/OLB continue to stand out as our greatest need for some pro bowl level talent. Hopefully Dre'mont Jones and Nwosu are close, but it'd be wonderful to have one or two guys playing at that level on a rookie deal for a few years. Carter at #5 (if he's there) just seems like such a worthwhile gamble to me the closer we get to draft day.
Yea, the more I understand what they have done already, the more I see DL as the first and second most important position to draft. We have one starting slot open and three potential backup spots open.
OLB is always on the table, but if no value shows up, I'm not expecting them to reach for need. Edge is a fairly thick class this year, if not strong at the top, so they might wait for rotational pieces.
The more I think about it, the more I would like to see a list of players in front of me. This is like the best computer games that always made me start writing things down to keep track of things. The actual openings on the 53 don't allow for every draftee this year to make that team. We might even draft a LS if we don't have one signed.
That is why I advise caution to people when contemplating drafting a QB. You cannot draft a developmental QB and stash him on the practice squad unless you draft him very very late, and still you have to have no attachment to him if you stash him on the practice squad. If we draft one early we will carry three QB's almost certainly.
Great piece and fantastic questions (not ones you see elsewhere!)
I would take issue with her answer to #1 tho. Pete found gold with Russ in round 3 AND THEN IMMEDIATELY DID IT AGAIN W GENO. Rare or not the guy has done it twice in a row so he has to be at least entertaining the idea he can do it again.
Congratulations for 1500! That is truly amazing. Thank you for making my day a little more interesting...each day 🎆🎇
Here here! We’ll done Kenneth, and thank you.
Now I want to see a "why draft" piece written on Jaxon Smith-Njigba!
And Nolan Smith too, if you're taking requests.
1500 holy carp! Great stuff, and here's to 1500 more Kenneth! And to you too commenters, readers, likers and community!
Good answers from Mina. A timely reminder that for all we think we know about PC/JS and their plans, we really know next to nothing.
New tweet from Schefter says there are 6 teams that want to trade up with the Cardinals. I guess the Seahawks could be one but this makes me think a good portion of the league wants to move up for a QB or is Will Anderson generating this much interest?
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1645451234357264385?s=20
This seems like one of those clickbaity kinda these to say without really saying anything. The suggestion is that at least six teams want to trade up for a QB. The reality is probably that a bunch of teams are talking to the Cards GM about what a draft-day trade might look like in the event the first two picks play out a certain way. There's only ten minutes between picks to make a potentially franchise-altering decision. Every year GMs lay the ground work for these types of deals ahead of time because you have to given the draft day time constraints. My guess is the Arizona GM's phone rings a lot more if the Texans draft a non-QB at #2.
Exactly. Preparing for the possibility they can get either Stroud or Young. If the Texans take Anderson, the draft will get very exciting very fast.
Congratulations to 1500!
Wow that’s why I like Miah and Seaside Joe. JSN remains my dark horse at 5. He just fits what they want to do on offense. I keep thinking this would be an easy draft with the 9th and 10th pick (JSN and Robinson because that is where they should and probably will go) instead of the 5th and the 20th.
It seems like if one WR is gonna go higher than expected it would be JSN. If there were someway to guarantee that I'd be getting Doug Baldwin in his prime (or better) on the #5 pick rookie contract, I'd say sign me up for that!
Guarantees and the draft are mutually exclusive terms. What I know is that his shuttle was elite, his lower body is close to a running back and his hands are excellent. At best I have him as a hybrid Doug / Debo receiver. The biggest risk are the lack of separation at the college level means he can be covered man to man at the pro level and injuries. The thing I like best is something Chris Simms observed that
when the defensive back had JSN covered for a short gain JSN consistently made him miss. I don’t think JSN is a number 1 receiver because of the lack top end speed but I think he is a very good to great number 2 in a couple of years and a great number 3 his rookie year. Sort of like Doug Baldwin come to think of it.
I will vote for a Baldwin clone. Sadly, I don't think Baldwin was ever fully appreciated by the Seattle fans, but even more nationally. He got separation at an incredible rate. Immediately, right off the line because of his feet. I loved his game. Wilson never used him as much as he should have.
Congrats on 1500!! I started reading your newsletter my first year out of college. I had it sent to my work inbox, and whenever it came in, it would kick off my coffee/water cooler break. Here's to many more great newsletters!
One thing I have always liked about Pete Carroll is his positivity. He isn’t over zealous but a good balance; of course his glass isn’t 1/2 full but 3/4 full. Go Hawks! Go Seaside Joe!
I know the QB is a different beast, but Seattle had their greatest success when the team was full of personalities and egos: Marshawn, Sherm, Earl, Bennett and Tate to name a few. I don’t think Pete would be concerned about any of these top five QBs derailing the locker room.
It is kind of a different beast. I think of Gary Beban, Terry Baker, Steve Spurrier, etc.
Mcdude your comment zoomed way over my head 😂
McDude is obviously very McOld. I recognize the names, they're QB's of old, but I'm fuzzy what the connection to the previous comment was.
When I saw you comment to "MDude" I thought you were kidding him or something, but then I saw his name really is McDude, so wow, McDude, welcome to SJ comments. amiright?
McOld very funny 😁
Low hanging fruit.