I gotta say that I would pretty excited about this hire. He checks the boxes Mike is looking for and the more I hear about this guy, the more I'm impressed with him. He sounds like he could be the next McVay, from the intelligence side of things.
I'm surprised. Most people on the rebound look for the qualities that were missing from the previous mistake. I thought for sure, they'd go for older and more experienced. This doesn't disappoint me, just surprised.
I would really like an advantage over the world, so a young genius would be nice.
I think there's three things Coach Mac is looking for (speculation alert!).
- Some form of offensive genius. It needs to be someone that can talk and relate to him at his level. If he doesn't see that, he won't hire him.
- He has to hear the fire and passion to dictate terms to the defense, play tough football, and will accept nothing else.
- There has to be some compatibility there. Coach Mac needs to trust this guy to implement the vision on offense. Grubb broke this trust, so he won't let that happen again.
I have no idea which of the candidates will meet these terms. But I'm relatively certain these, and perhaps others, are non-negotiable.
You'll never know which Play calling Genius sits inside a Human's head until you unleash it.
They need to be intelligent, have great awareness and a lot of experience with football plays, if this comes from being a former player or just a tactical nerd doesn't really matter.
I would love to watch an OC interview and if I were MM I would ask questions like: when I call that defense, how do you beat it.
And in these interviews they should get a really good feel about the person's knowledge and playcalling.
Of the names we know, Fraley is currently atop my list. I would love for us to bring in Josh McCown; he has over 15 years in the league at varying levels starterdom and has spent a couple of years under O'Connell's wing just like Udinski.
MCR stands for My Chemical Romance, right? I fell in love with one of their songs so I bought the album. IMO, that was the only song worth listening to on the entire album. So, you probably liked all of those songs, I suppose?
Maybe my obsession with Peetz pays off, with at least a seeming openness from the Hawks to look at the McVay Tree & relative OC Inexperience - if the candidate has proven chops. And Peetz has arguably more experience and chops than Udinski. Someone is going to take Peetz as an OC soon, and taking the chance now during the rebuild phase carries minimal risks and a lot of additional benefits.
I guess we have to trust Coach Mac on that one. He's worked with him for a year, so if he doesn't feel he's the guy, I have to have some faith he isn't.
I'd be good with that but I don't think Assistant OC/Pass game coordinator would be seen as progression for him from what he has now with the Vikings. Now if Fraley was the OC and Udinsky was calling the plays, that would not be a lateral. I don't think I've ever seen an OC not call plays, other than when the HC is calling them. So that would be a bit odd.
I am going to go against the SJ community a bit, here.
1st, I am with everyone thinking the OL is priority #1.
But, with all of the responsibilities that an OC has: calling plays, game planning, being the "coordinator" of all the position coaches, setting the direction and vision for the offense, among others; just how close is he going to be to coaching the OL and making them better? He may have some ideas of some things they need to work on, but the OL coaches are going to be "coaching them up" in those things. With that in mind and also with the idea in mind we had from last year that they needed a guy who could call games holistically (plays early that set up plays later in the game and season) and was good at the "chess match" against the opposing DC, I am not excited about the idea of a guy who has never called plays in the NFL as OC. I would rather see them hire a great OL teacher as OL coach and a guy who has a good grasp of playcalling and play designing strategies as OC, especially since JS has 3 defensive guys in house already. We'll all be expecting the OC to be concerned with the QB and be in his ear regularly, as well. Even though the OC has to follow MM's vision for the offense, he is still on an offensive island for all intents and purposes when it comes to when to call what, what is in the playbook, and what the players can handle at what time.
If we're expecting to hire an OC to fix the OL, IMHO we're putting that expectation on the wrong guy. Lets get the chess champ OC and an OL teacher who will follow his and MM's demands to coach up our new guys (lots of them possibly) and the holdovers.
Perfect Shaymus. Sure feels like so many do not understand that. OC isn’t the coach of all positions. QB and play calling. Yes the Director of the offense provides the direction and designs the plays etc, but the technical mgr directs the developers. The functional manager leads the users etc.
Exactly. Re the OL, the most important thing the next OC can do is recommend the right OL coach. For all I know that’s Huff, although he seems to be on thin ice.
Good points. I presume the OL coach reports to the OC. My assumption is that we want the OC to set the priorities and the OL coach to make them happen. My second assumption is that it's both of their jobs to make certain those priorities are achievable with the talent available and, if not, to have sufficient input to solve the problem. So, to go back to yesterday's post, if we have an OC/OL team that wants huge guys like the Eagles, we don't have those guys, can't get them overnight, so it's not going to work. Those are the wrong coaches for us.
Imagine being Grubb. He took a job that was probably pitched to him by whom? John Schneider, most likely. He gave up a job at Alabama and it was his choice, but now where does he go? I feel bad for the guy. He has talent and experience but his situation just got upended. Hope the dude lands on his feet.
It’s happened before and it will happen again. Grubb knew the drill. He left a seven-figure contract at Alabama, so you can bet that he was well-compensated in Seattle.
He looks like a Coach. Playing TE means he's big, which spells good things with fellow Big Men. There is 'going out of the box', but this would be more like grabbing onto a hot air balloon. Given the addition of A.I. assistance and the explosion of enthusiasm among a young group, I can see a fire lit that hasn't yet been tried. Having the brilliant defense mind of MM to act like a critical testing component for any designs might be what MacD was talking about when he said Grubb left because he wanted to "go in a different direction". Watching Grubb's offense stumble about the field all year hinted at him refusing to hear Mike's input. Maybe he simply got territorial?
Absolutely on Grub being territorial. What a shame. That we somewhat wasted a season(on the offensive side). I read that they almost parted ways with Grubb at the byweek.
John probably talked Macdonald down on the basis that it would be putting a bad look out there regarding the firing of a OC midseason. I think John probably feels really bad about this, and is gonna get Coach everything he needs to be successful. Fortune goes to the brave. If this roster is gonna match up to the best teams, John is gonna need to get out the flamethrower and burn off the fat. And there's a lot of fat to burn.
I trust JS and MM to get a great candidate in place. If he's a young inexperienced coach, so be it. I thought they might go for someone with NFL experience or at least someone that knows the league inside and out. To echo many, as long as the new coach can improve the line, I'm happy. I'm also seeing a theme that people want to see a team identity. I have typically seen the identity come once the team becomes a team. I can't wait for that to happen. Go Hawks!
I'm wondering at what point did the two decide to replace Grubb? We can be certain JS had a long list of potentials to consider at any given time. Is it 'good form' or 'common practice' to announce before the Super Bowl? Or are we waiting for one of the teams to win/lose, as their choice is still actively coaching? Is Seattle considered high on the List of places a Coach wants to come to? Will Ben Johnson be going to Dallas? (I see Deion is interviewing).
Definitely common practice to do so early. Mostly Head Coaches but why called Black Monday after the last Sunday of regular season. As for timing, Coach Mac just stated, next season basically started. You want to get a jump on it and the NFL, for coaches, is never “off season”. They need their coaches together to start evaluating own players, other teams free agents and draft. Direction and design for next season starts now. Players get months off. FO and coaches do not.
I can see The Decision to move Grubb out was made. Fairness demands he finds out ASAP, which was the next day, AKA "Black Monday". Looks to me like MacD will forever demand a sense of urgency, in all they do. This will come to affect Players, culling the herd accordingly. He will have nothing less, at all times, both Coaches and Players. This is Big Money Time. Everything gets relegated to #2, including family issues unless issued a Hall Pass according to the 'Pete Carroll Culture' rules, which are generous and forgiving. Hey, Pete's doctorate was in psychology. It's his secret sauce. His fast ball. Use it. Just don't ask Mike to tap his inner cheerleader. It ain't there.
I obviously don't know when JS and MM decided to pull the plug on the Grubb experiment, but I'm guess the decision was made during the Minnesota game. Trailing by 3. A couple of completions gets Seattle to the 37 or so yard line of the Vikings. 3 or 4 minutes left on the clock......don't remember. I was thinking, run the clock, get into safer FG range, and take a shot down the field if you get a safe shot. Grubb went incomplete pass, incomplete pass, Geno 8 yard sack. Didn't run it, didn't wind the clock, went backwards instead of forwards. I'd have fired him after the game. Can't have it.
Solid reasoning. I agree, Chris. MacD will demand we do the dictating, not others. Failure to perform is not an option. Dig deep. If it ain't there, you're gone. The time to set the table expired after the 3rd quarter of the season. Win early. Make it easy. No more precipissers.
Well, here I disagree. McD is going to want someone as creative and analytical as he is. He’s a very serious student of football. Anyone he’s hiring has to match those wits and that thinking. What Grubb failed at was literally this part. He was creative, but it was frequently evident that he didn’t or couldn’t study the defense he was opposing. How often did you see Geno finally have time—and nowhere to throw? That’s scheme, or a failure of scheme. Watching the Rams last night you saw scheme slaughter a good defense. Even with the Rams’ backups they constantly threw underneath against Seattle in week 18. What that tells you is that scheme can even beat a talent advantage, and whoever the Hawks hire had better be a student of the defense he’s facing. He has to see and reveal their weaknesses. Seattle hasn’t had that in ages, and in the modern NFL it’s crucial. Be a leader, yes, but know the other team’s weaknesses and have a plan to beat them. PLEASE!
Exactly Paul. When Geno’s #1 or 2 open, Geno is very good. When not, Geno either doesn’t see the field or know the routes. Wilson was awesome at that. Telling was Rams game, the EZ INT. K9 was sitting at the 3 for multiple segments, open. Geno never looked left. I’m screaming from my seat to look at Walker. Instead Geno, who had tons of time, finally throws into EZ, way short of Tyler, INT. Geno awesome when primary receiver for play is open. Quite poor when primary isn’t open.
Name familiarity aside, I appreciate that we're looking for young and innovative, not grizzled and safe. I'm not in favor of copying what worked last season. Let's figure out who we are, what we're good at, and excel at that. Oh, and coach up the OL. Let's set the tempo, not follow everybody else's tune.
I don't care how cute they get with the OC interview process. All I want to know is what is his plan for the OL. The OL hasn't been worth 2 shits since about 2015. If you need to interview more than 3 or 4 people you probably aren't really sure what you're looking for.
I can't remember the last time I felt good about having a 3rd and 1. Are we going to have some kind of a penalty, run one of those 5 yard loss flysweeps, have a loss due to a sack?
You get me to 3rd and 1 and I want to be able to run it over and through the bastards what ever their colors are. 1st down, let's go! Keep marching, time of possession.
If you're 28 y.o. QB savant is the guy then bring him on in.
Count me in. Actually, I think he should get more backfield snaps in general, maybe 20-25/game. A 2-way player. Model is that Ricard guy at the Ravens, except in Murphy's case he also should be getting DL snaps.
I gotta say that I would pretty excited about this hire. He checks the boxes Mike is looking for and the more I hear about this guy, the more I'm impressed with him. He sounds like he could be the next McVay, from the intelligence side of things.
I'm surprised. Most people on the rebound look for the qualities that were missing from the previous mistake. I thought for sure, they'd go for older and more experienced. This doesn't disappoint me, just surprised.
I would really like an advantage over the world, so a young genius would be nice.
How about if we let the Vikings keep that guy (though I do like his name), but we get Kevin O'Connell?
I think there's three things Coach Mac is looking for (speculation alert!).
- Some form of offensive genius. It needs to be someone that can talk and relate to him at his level. If he doesn't see that, he won't hire him.
- He has to hear the fire and passion to dictate terms to the defense, play tough football, and will accept nothing else.
- There has to be some compatibility there. Coach Mac needs to trust this guy to implement the vision on offense. Grubb broke this trust, so he won't let that happen again.
I have no idea which of the candidates will meet these terms. But I'm relatively certain these, and perhaps others, are non-negotiable.
You'll never know which Play calling Genius sits inside a Human's head until you unleash it.
They need to be intelligent, have great awareness and a lot of experience with football plays, if this comes from being a former player or just a tactical nerd doesn't really matter.
I would love to watch an OC interview and if I were MM I would ask questions like: when I call that defense, how do you beat it.
And in these interviews they should get a really good feel about the person's knowledge and playcalling.
You can learn so much from "the other side"
Love the MCR reference.
Of the names we know, Fraley is currently atop my list. I would love for us to bring in Josh McCown; he has over 15 years in the league at varying levels starterdom and has spent a couple of years under O'Connell's wing just like Udinski.
MCR stands for My Chemical Romance, right? I fell in love with one of their songs so I bought the album. IMO, that was the only song worth listening to on the entire album. So, you probably liked all of those songs, I suppose?
I also really like their name. Clever.
Spot on, not everyone's cup of tea but I am a proud Elder Emo and you've got to appreciate your roots XD
Maybe my obsession with Peetz pays off, with at least a seeming openness from the Hawks to look at the McVay Tree & relative OC Inexperience - if the candidate has proven chops. And Peetz has arguably more experience and chops than Udinski. Someone is going to take Peetz as an OC soon, and taking the chance now during the rebuild phase carries minimal risks and a lot of additional benefits.
I guess we have to trust Coach Mac on that one. He's worked with him for a year, so if he doesn't feel he's the guy, I have to have some faith he isn't.
Hank Frayley OC. Grant Udinsky Assistant OC/ Pass game coordinator. We have both Sam Howell and Jaren Hall, both are ballers.
I'd be good with that but I don't think Assistant OC/Pass game coordinator would be seen as progression for him from what he has now with the Vikings. Now if Fraley was the OC and Udinsky was calling the plays, that would not be a lateral. I don't think I've ever seen an OC not call plays, other than when the HC is calling them. So that would be a bit odd.
I am going to go against the SJ community a bit, here.
1st, I am with everyone thinking the OL is priority #1.
But, with all of the responsibilities that an OC has: calling plays, game planning, being the "coordinator" of all the position coaches, setting the direction and vision for the offense, among others; just how close is he going to be to coaching the OL and making them better? He may have some ideas of some things they need to work on, but the OL coaches are going to be "coaching them up" in those things. With that in mind and also with the idea in mind we had from last year that they needed a guy who could call games holistically (plays early that set up plays later in the game and season) and was good at the "chess match" against the opposing DC, I am not excited about the idea of a guy who has never called plays in the NFL as OC. I would rather see them hire a great OL teacher as OL coach and a guy who has a good grasp of playcalling and play designing strategies as OC, especially since JS has 3 defensive guys in house already. We'll all be expecting the OC to be concerned with the QB and be in his ear regularly, as well. Even though the OC has to follow MM's vision for the offense, he is still on an offensive island for all intents and purposes when it comes to when to call what, what is in the playbook, and what the players can handle at what time.
If we're expecting to hire an OC to fix the OL, IMHO we're putting that expectation on the wrong guy. Lets get the chess champ OC and an OL teacher who will follow his and MM's demands to coach up our new guys (lots of them possibly) and the holdovers.
Perfect Shaymus. Sure feels like so many do not understand that. OC isn’t the coach of all positions. QB and play calling. Yes the Director of the offense provides the direction and designs the plays etc, but the technical mgr directs the developers. The functional manager leads the users etc.
Exactly. Re the OL, the most important thing the next OC can do is recommend the right OL coach. For all I know that’s Huff, although he seems to be on thin ice.
Good points. I presume the OL coach reports to the OC. My assumption is that we want the OC to set the priorities and the OL coach to make them happen. My second assumption is that it's both of their jobs to make certain those priorities are achievable with the talent available and, if not, to have sufficient input to solve the problem. So, to go back to yesterday's post, if we have an OC/OL team that wants huge guys like the Eagles, we don't have those guys, can't get them overnight, so it's not going to work. Those are the wrong coaches for us.
Imagine being Grubb. He took a job that was probably pitched to him by whom? John Schneider, most likely. He gave up a job at Alabama and it was his choice, but now where does he go? I feel bad for the guy. He has talent and experience but his situation just got upended. Hope the dude lands on his feet.
It’s happened before and it will happen again. Grubb knew the drill. He left a seven-figure contract at Alabama, so you can bet that he was well-compensated in Seattle.
Double rec on this, Stephen. Good Fortune to Coach Grubb.
He looks like a Coach. Playing TE means he's big, which spells good things with fellow Big Men. There is 'going out of the box', but this would be more like grabbing onto a hot air balloon. Given the addition of A.I. assistance and the explosion of enthusiasm among a young group, I can see a fire lit that hasn't yet been tried. Having the brilliant defense mind of MM to act like a critical testing component for any designs might be what MacD was talking about when he said Grubb left because he wanted to "go in a different direction". Watching Grubb's offense stumble about the field all year hinted at him refusing to hear Mike's input. Maybe he simply got territorial?
Absolutely on Grub being territorial. What a shame. That we somewhat wasted a season(on the offensive side). I read that they almost parted ways with Grubb at the byweek.
John probably talked Macdonald down on the basis that it would be putting a bad look out there regarding the firing of a OC midseason. I think John probably feels really bad about this, and is gonna get Coach everything he needs to be successful. Fortune goes to the brave. If this roster is gonna match up to the best teams, John is gonna need to get out the flamethrower and burn off the fat. And there's a lot of fat to burn.
Cool. No need for creepy-nice bye-byes. Door. Ass. Bang. The guys will be with him (Coach). Nothing like the Absent to take the blame.
I trust JS and MM to get a great candidate in place. If he's a young inexperienced coach, so be it. I thought they might go for someone with NFL experience or at least someone that knows the league inside and out. To echo many, as long as the new coach can improve the line, I'm happy. I'm also seeing a theme that people want to see a team identity. I have typically seen the identity come once the team becomes a team. I can't wait for that to happen. Go Hawks!
I'm wondering at what point did the two decide to replace Grubb? We can be certain JS had a long list of potentials to consider at any given time. Is it 'good form' or 'common practice' to announce before the Super Bowl? Or are we waiting for one of the teams to win/lose, as their choice is still actively coaching? Is Seattle considered high on the List of places a Coach wants to come to? Will Ben Johnson be going to Dallas? (I see Deion is interviewing).
Definitely common practice to do so early. Mostly Head Coaches but why called Black Monday after the last Sunday of regular season. As for timing, Coach Mac just stated, next season basically started. You want to get a jump on it and the NFL, for coaches, is never “off season”. They need their coaches together to start evaluating own players, other teams free agents and draft. Direction and design for next season starts now. Players get months off. FO and coaches do not.
I can see The Decision to move Grubb out was made. Fairness demands he finds out ASAP, which was the next day, AKA "Black Monday". Looks to me like MacD will forever demand a sense of urgency, in all they do. This will come to affect Players, culling the herd accordingly. He will have nothing less, at all times, both Coaches and Players. This is Big Money Time. Everything gets relegated to #2, including family issues unless issued a Hall Pass according to the 'Pete Carroll Culture' rules, which are generous and forgiving. Hey, Pete's doctorate was in psychology. It's his secret sauce. His fast ball. Use it. Just don't ask Mike to tap his inner cheerleader. It ain't there.
I obviously don't know when JS and MM decided to pull the plug on the Grubb experiment, but I'm guess the decision was made during the Minnesota game. Trailing by 3. A couple of completions gets Seattle to the 37 or so yard line of the Vikings. 3 or 4 minutes left on the clock......don't remember. I was thinking, run the clock, get into safer FG range, and take a shot down the field if you get a safe shot. Grubb went incomplete pass, incomplete pass, Geno 8 yard sack. Didn't run it, didn't wind the clock, went backwards instead of forwards. I'd have fired him after the game. Can't have it.
Total speculation obviously.
Solid reasoning. I agree, Chris. MacD will demand we do the dictating, not others. Failure to perform is not an option. Dig deep. If it ain't there, you're gone. The time to set the table expired after the 3rd quarter of the season. Win early. Make it easy. No more precipissers.
This is pretty much the only Seahawk forum I follow so it's fair to ask if other people are as worked up over the O-Line as us Seasiders?
Every Seahawk forum wants to see the O-line a focus this offseason. Badly.
I don't think the answer we need is in the x's and o's. The answer we need is "how are you going to develop the OL?"
If anyone can solve that question, I'm all in on him.
I don't care if he's 28 or 68....I'd be a little nervous if he was 78.
Well, here I disagree. McD is going to want someone as creative and analytical as he is. He’s a very serious student of football. Anyone he’s hiring has to match those wits and that thinking. What Grubb failed at was literally this part. He was creative, but it was frequently evident that he didn’t or couldn’t study the defense he was opposing. How often did you see Geno finally have time—and nowhere to throw? That’s scheme, or a failure of scheme. Watching the Rams last night you saw scheme slaughter a good defense. Even with the Rams’ backups they constantly threw underneath against Seattle in week 18. What that tells you is that scheme can even beat a talent advantage, and whoever the Hawks hire had better be a student of the defense he’s facing. He has to see and reveal their weaknesses. Seattle hasn’t had that in ages, and in the modern NFL it’s crucial. Be a leader, yes, but know the other team’s weaknesses and have a plan to beat them. PLEASE!
In fairness, there were plenty of times where Geno could not find receivers who were open. Reading the field quickly is not his strong suit.
Exactly Paul. When Geno’s #1 or 2 open, Geno is very good. When not, Geno either doesn’t see the field or know the routes. Wilson was awesome at that. Telling was Rams game, the EZ INT. K9 was sitting at the 3 for multiple segments, open. Geno never looked left. I’m screaming from my seat to look at Walker. Instead Geno, who had tons of time, finally throws into EZ, way short of Tyler, INT. Geno awesome when primary receiver for play is open. Quite poor when primary isn’t open.
Yeah. The guys need someone who carries a "presence". He has the Look, but I'll wait until I hear him.
Name familiarity aside, I appreciate that we're looking for young and innovative, not grizzled and safe. I'm not in favor of copying what worked last season. Let's figure out who we are, what we're good at, and excel at that. Oh, and coach up the OL. Let's set the tempo, not follow everybody else's tune.
Wait. Does JJ McCarthy come with?
Darnold blew his chances for next year after ending the last two games projecting the classic Deer-in-the-Headlights.
I don't care how cute they get with the OC interview process. All I want to know is what is his plan for the OL. The OL hasn't been worth 2 shits since about 2015. If you need to interview more than 3 or 4 people you probably aren't really sure what you're looking for.
I can't remember the last time I felt good about having a 3rd and 1. Are we going to have some kind of a penalty, run one of those 5 yard loss flysweeps, have a loss due to a sack?
You get me to 3rd and 1 and I want to be able to run it over and through the bastards what ever their colors are. 1st down, let's go! Keep marching, time of possession.
If you're 28 y.o. QB savant is the guy then bring him on in.
I would also want to know the plans for (a) getting the ball to Walker where he can do something with it and (b) making DK dangerous again.
3rd and 1...Byron Murphy started college as a running back. Enough said?
Count me in. Actually, I think he should get more backfield snaps in general, maybe 20-25/game. A 2-way player. Model is that Ricard guy at the Ravens, except in Murphy's case he also should be getting DL snaps.