If we agree that a favorite O-Line guy doesn't have to actually have been good or anything, I'll offer Robby Tobeck and Breno Giacomini as two guys whose jerseys I'd proudly wear.
Wow we got a Millard in here. Nice. Ok Mack Strong!!! Seriously would be Tobeck, Unger, Millard and too short Mawae (stud for the Jets) and played almost forever, Blair Bush. Surprising how many quality centers we used to have before PC devalued the position.
You hear a lot about the offensive line for Seattle and it's usually bad news. One thing I think that is interesting is that Seattle has been addressing their line since 2022 and not just ignoring it. So what is different about 2025. Coaching, scheme , 1st round guard and a number of 2nd year players. Why was Haynes considered such a great prospect in last years draft. His stability and expereince at guard in college. Oh by the way, UConn ran a wide zone style of offense. In 2024 Seattle didn't run that offense, they will in 2025 under Kubiak. Zable also has a lot of expereince at the wide zone concept as does Sundell. Interesting tidbit on Sam I am. He was second in the league last year in play action pass attempts from behind center. Goff was first. Sam completed 57% of his passes 20 yards or more and led the league. So why did Seattle draft the way they did. It sounds to me that this years offense is a much better fit to the talent they have. That includes Sam I am as well. He is perfectly suited to Kubiak's run oriented play action pass offense. This is an entirely different offense than 2024, and one that plays to the strentgths for both the line and QB. Don't forget the addition of a FB/TE which could offer a variety of looks. Both Cabeldue and Richman also come out of a wide zone offense. Joe's right. How could PFN write an article on Seattle's offensive line and not mention Kubiak and a new scheme for 2025. That's sounds like cookie cutter journalism to me. Projections without key considerations. K9 came out of an offense that also incorporated zone blocking schemes and play actions passes at Michigan St. Another consideration for this type of offensive scheme is what type of receivers do well in it. They must block for the run, understand zone defenses and have excellent route skills and a multiple route tree to do well. That sounds like JSN and Kupp to me. I think the TE room will offer a variety of options with this type of scheme as well.
Past favorite lineman...Unger, Tobeck, McKenzie, Bush, Millard. Special nod to Brenno and his fire.
Reggie McKenzie brought a nastiness and toughness and attitude that really helped boost Chuck Knox's offense. Knox brought him to Seattle to "teach these guys how to win". Honorable mention to Blair Bush.
Seaside! Dude! A great comprehesive articulation of why the Hawks O-line will not suck the neon green weanie in 2025. PFN & PFF have our O-line as (almost) the worst. You've got the 'less sucky than last year' ground well covered. Allow me to offer the "Top Five O-line" pitch. Zabel, a healthy Lucas and Cabeldue (you just watch) are force multipliers! Me, and my Unicorn, are hyped on this O-line!
We could trot out the same guys this year as last year and they'd improve. Better coaching, play calling and protection schemes. Less hanging the o-line out to dry on third and long and empty backfield. Schemes to leverage what the players do best.
On top of that if you upgrade at RG (TBD) and settle on a RG and stick with him, you're better still. Ain't that enough? Get to middle of the pack. If the defence is elite, that's a recipe to win games.
I’m getting more hope than I had expected about Seattle this year. This article does make sense to me, virtually impossible to imagine Seattle’s OL won’t be an improvement vs last year’s. Which would mean my biggest Darnold/Kubiak fear (the OL) may be over-inflated.
As a caution, from camp reports it seems the offense is really struggling against the defense. You can read that two ways: offense is bad, or, defense is REALLY good
Could be the latter. Our offense is going to be decent — but our defense in Macdonalds 2nd year is a MONSTER
I believe in Coaching I have witnessed it in teams I have coached that were not overly talented. and we have all seen it in the NFL, MLB, NBA
My belief is this could be a year like 2012 when the Hawks come into there own. Great coaching makes a difference. Of course great talent especially makes a coach look great. look at the KC Chiefs. Great coaching with one extraordinarily talented QB.
If the Seahawks OL get the kind of coaching I think they will, Watch Out
Thank you for this article. Love it (as so many others). I get the rankings (these guys haven’t proven themselves) and same time it’s as you list here. The coaching changes. Play calls. The injuries. All massive impact. Vikes replaced their entire IOL this year. Why? Because they actually were not good. We need the starting 5 identified at start of camp and just let them gel as a unit.
I’ve been reading your daily articles ‘daily’ for some time now. I’m not sure of my streak of consecutive days, but at least since I became a super joe. I saw your article notification today taking issue with the national media’s assessment of the Seattle Seahawks and I said, “ugh,” I’m going to get so incensed if I read this, why not skip it. And this on top of just yesterday Shaymus McFamous recommending I ignore these ignoramuses as they truly offer very little worthwhile information. So I said to myself, you’re right Shaymus, let me just stop with this fruitless behavior. But then I read your article anyway.
I have lots of time on my hand. I retired in 2013, and my day consists of a walk to Volunteer park and back every morning weather permitting, reading a book every 7 to 10 days, food shopping, cooking, and occasionally the theater and music performances in the evening. This leaves me hours to consume articles and podcasts concerning the Seahawks. I occasionally read about the other teams in their NFC West, but just keep vaguely aware of the other 28 teams in the league. The BIG problem with these national ignoramuses is it is impossible for one talking head to have a very good grasp on 32 teams. Thus, these talking heads just spit out blurbs they get from other no nothing talking heads. Hold on while I put “Dirty Laundry” on my music stream. Just the other day I thought of this tune when Sam Monsoon of PFF took the under on the Seahawks. “We got the bubble headed bald guy, comes on at five, He’ll tell you bout the Seahawks crash with a gleam in his eye. It’s interesting when teams fail, give us dirty laundry!”
Anyway, we need a football information podcast that has 32 reporters, one for each team that delves into only that team. They broadcast for 8 hours a day, one hour for each of the 8 divisions, 15 minutes by each of the 4 division experts. The current format relying on a few personalities who espouse on 32 teams from a point of view of near ignorance should not be rewarded with viewers.
Sorry for getting this off my chest. And if you’re listening Shaymus, I’m going back to taking your advice.
On a different note….all this talk about Zabel worries me. Even though he is highly ranked, it is still his first taste of NFL. I worry about everyone having super high expectations. Instead, I think that if he is just serviceable, I will be happy enough. I refuse to expect superstar quality from him. This can only lead to disappointment.
I can speak up for the kind of people who grow up among cattle and crops. Given a newness to how strong, quick and brutal the NFL is, these kids will rise to the challenge as a matter of Nature and finding your place in it all. Mastering it starts in your head. No way will Zabel go home defeated. If he's not good enough, then get good enough. That process will play out in and through the locker room as help gets offered or extended.
Maybe they will, maybe they won’t. We’re all different and cope with things differently. I’ve seen highly talented kids - capable of performing at the highest level - not end with success due to the pressures put on them from the start. Not because they’re weak or not good enough, but because they are poorly managed; pushed too hard too early and / or lumped with unrealistically high expectations before they start. Some kids need time to adjust. It’s just human nature. It’s a lot of pressure on Zabel. I just hope he’s the type of kid you describe. Otherwise it could destroy any chance and hope he has.
Looking at my post below, I am most intrigued by New Orleans. With Klint Kubiak, John Benton, and Rick Dennison coaching, they predicted the Saints as the worst OL in the NFL in 2024.
The final ranking of the Saints OL? 22
With rookie Fuaga and first time starter Penning starting the whole season.
With the best OL and elite center, McCoy missing 10 games.
With so many OL going down and playing out of position to field a complete OL that they not only needed to elevate PS players to starters, they needed to sign a center off of the Jets PS to start.
With all of that, the Saints OL outperformed preseason expectations by 11 spots. That's a classic sign of damned good coaching.
This year with the Seahawks, WE now have Kubiak, Benton, and Dennison, and we add Outten.
What do you think are the chances of the Seahawks OL wildly outperforming expectations this year?
I prattle on: Just because a team or a unit has been bad for a while is no reason to think they have to get better, because they don't. The Browns, Jaguars, and Jets prove this point. Injuries and other "Luck" factors (both good and bad) tend to regress toward the mean, though, and I wonder how good the N.O. Saints' O-Line might have been last year if not for the injuries? We'll never know, but we do know that Seattle has upgraded their coaches, added better players, and is hoping for improvements from current players. All of the indicators are leaning towards positive.
I would love to see an in depth breakdown of our coaching staff on the o-line and offense. Perhaps defense as well. Where did they come from..quotes and opinions from former players on their quality. This is the first season I can remember in a LONG while us investing in quality coaching staff to elevate the play and technique of our offense.
I don't read these negative "predictions" because of what you pointed out, KenJoe. I see the headlines and repeat to myself that these "analysts" (1st 4 letters is anal) are as full of shit as a Christmas goose. They are shooting for clicks and misleading the readers so why waste my time reading their bull shit
I believe if you took the same personnel we had last year and had to deal with all the same injuries, but put this coaching staff in charge, we'd have been mediocre. If these guys play well together, the media will talk about drafting Zabel, and Lucas getting healthy, and Cross taking the next step, but the best offseason addition will have been a couple of 60+ year old dudes.
Setting aside Hall of Famers Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson, who is your favorite Seahawks O-lineman of all-time?
Russell Okung wasn’t a favorite in many ways, but as a LT arguably best in Hawks history after Walter Jones.
But gotta say Unger too, along with so many other Joes voting for him
Howard Ballard because "House" and Floyd Womack because "Pork Chop"
I was going to say!
Sweezy!
If we agree that a favorite O-Line guy doesn't have to actually have been good or anything, I'll offer Robby Tobeck and Breno Giacomini as two guys whose jerseys I'd proudly wear.
Wow we got a Millard in here. Nice. Ok Mack Strong!!! Seriously would be Tobeck, Unger, Millard and too short Mawae (stud for the Jets) and played almost forever, Blair Bush. Surprising how many quality centers we used to have before PC devalued the position.
Gotta go with Bryan Millard. No, I never heard of him before today...
Breno - he took no prisoners.
That's mine too. fought like hell every game.
Max Unger
Agree, Nicolas. Mr. Max Unger.
Robbie Tobeck.
That is the correct answer. ;)
Max Unger was certainly up there. I was gutted that we traded him for Jimmy Graham. And good as Jimmy was, that was the beginning of our O line woes.
Many (Most?) of us Hawk fans agree with this sentiment.
You hear a lot about the offensive line for Seattle and it's usually bad news. One thing I think that is interesting is that Seattle has been addressing their line since 2022 and not just ignoring it. So what is different about 2025. Coaching, scheme , 1st round guard and a number of 2nd year players. Why was Haynes considered such a great prospect in last years draft. His stability and expereince at guard in college. Oh by the way, UConn ran a wide zone style of offense. In 2024 Seattle didn't run that offense, they will in 2025 under Kubiak. Zable also has a lot of expereince at the wide zone concept as does Sundell. Interesting tidbit on Sam I am. He was second in the league last year in play action pass attempts from behind center. Goff was first. Sam completed 57% of his passes 20 yards or more and led the league. So why did Seattle draft the way they did. It sounds to me that this years offense is a much better fit to the talent they have. That includes Sam I am as well. He is perfectly suited to Kubiak's run oriented play action pass offense. This is an entirely different offense than 2024, and one that plays to the strentgths for both the line and QB. Don't forget the addition of a FB/TE which could offer a variety of looks. Both Cabeldue and Richman also come out of a wide zone offense. Joe's right. How could PFN write an article on Seattle's offensive line and not mention Kubiak and a new scheme for 2025. That's sounds like cookie cutter journalism to me. Projections without key considerations. K9 came out of an offense that also incorporated zone blocking schemes and play actions passes at Michigan St. Another consideration for this type of offensive scheme is what type of receivers do well in it. They must block for the run, understand zone defenses and have excellent route skills and a multiple route tree to do well. That sounds like JSN and Kupp to me. I think the TE room will offer a variety of options with this type of scheme as well.
Past favorite lineman...Unger, Tobeck, McKenzie, Bush, Millard. Special nod to Brenno and his fire.
Reggie McKenzie brought a nastiness and toughness and attitude that really helped boost Chuck Knox's offense. Knox brought him to Seattle to "teach these guys how to win". Honorable mention to Blair Bush.
Seaside! Dude! A great comprehesive articulation of why the Hawks O-line will not suck the neon green weanie in 2025. PFN & PFF have our O-line as (almost) the worst. You've got the 'less sucky than last year' ground well covered. Allow me to offer the "Top Five O-line" pitch. Zabel, a healthy Lucas and Cabeldue (you just watch) are force multipliers! Me, and my Unicorn, are hyped on this O-line!
We could trot out the same guys this year as last year and they'd improve. Better coaching, play calling and protection schemes. Less hanging the o-line out to dry on third and long and empty backfield. Schemes to leverage what the players do best.
On top of that if you upgrade at RG (TBD) and settle on a RG and stick with him, you're better still. Ain't that enough? Get to middle of the pack. If the defence is elite, that's a recipe to win games.
Good article SSJ, thanks.
I’m getting more hope than I had expected about Seattle this year. This article does make sense to me, virtually impossible to imagine Seattle’s OL won’t be an improvement vs last year’s. Which would mean my biggest Darnold/Kubiak fear (the OL) may be over-inflated.
As a caution, from camp reports it seems the offense is really struggling against the defense. You can read that two ways: offense is bad, or, defense is REALLY good
Could be the latter. Our offense is going to be decent — but our defense in Macdonalds 2nd year is a MONSTER
I believe in Coaching I have witnessed it in teams I have coached that were not overly talented. and we have all seen it in the NFL, MLB, NBA
My belief is this could be a year like 2012 when the Hawks come into there own. Great coaching makes a difference. Of course great talent especially makes a coach look great. look at the KC Chiefs. Great coaching with one extraordinarily talented QB.
If the Seahawks OL get the kind of coaching I think they will, Watch Out
Thank you for this article. Love it (as so many others). I get the rankings (these guys haven’t proven themselves) and same time it’s as you list here. The coaching changes. Play calls. The injuries. All massive impact. Vikes replaced their entire IOL this year. Why? Because they actually were not good. We need the starting 5 identified at start of camp and just let them gel as a unit.
I’ve been reading your daily articles ‘daily’ for some time now. I’m not sure of my streak of consecutive days, but at least since I became a super joe. I saw your article notification today taking issue with the national media’s assessment of the Seattle Seahawks and I said, “ugh,” I’m going to get so incensed if I read this, why not skip it. And this on top of just yesterday Shaymus McFamous recommending I ignore these ignoramuses as they truly offer very little worthwhile information. So I said to myself, you’re right Shaymus, let me just stop with this fruitless behavior. But then I read your article anyway.
I have lots of time on my hand. I retired in 2013, and my day consists of a walk to Volunteer park and back every morning weather permitting, reading a book every 7 to 10 days, food shopping, cooking, and occasionally the theater and music performances in the evening. This leaves me hours to consume articles and podcasts concerning the Seahawks. I occasionally read about the other teams in their NFC West, but just keep vaguely aware of the other 28 teams in the league. The BIG problem with these national ignoramuses is it is impossible for one talking head to have a very good grasp on 32 teams. Thus, these talking heads just spit out blurbs they get from other no nothing talking heads. Hold on while I put “Dirty Laundry” on my music stream. Just the other day I thought of this tune when Sam Monsoon of PFF took the under on the Seahawks. “We got the bubble headed bald guy, comes on at five, He’ll tell you bout the Seahawks crash with a gleam in his eye. It’s interesting when teams fail, give us dirty laundry!”
Anyway, we need a football information podcast that has 32 reporters, one for each team that delves into only that team. They broadcast for 8 hours a day, one hour for each of the 8 divisions, 15 minutes by each of the 4 division experts. The current format relying on a few personalities who espouse on 32 teams from a point of view of near ignorance should not be rewarded with viewers.
Sorry for getting this off my chest. And if you’re listening Shaymus, I’m going back to taking your advice.
On a different note….all this talk about Zabel worries me. Even though he is highly ranked, it is still his first taste of NFL. I worry about everyone having super high expectations. Instead, I think that if he is just serviceable, I will be happy enough. I refuse to expect superstar quality from him. This can only lead to disappointment.
I can speak up for the kind of people who grow up among cattle and crops. Given a newness to how strong, quick and brutal the NFL is, these kids will rise to the challenge as a matter of Nature and finding your place in it all. Mastering it starts in your head. No way will Zabel go home defeated. If he's not good enough, then get good enough. That process will play out in and through the locker room as help gets offered or extended.
Maybe they will, maybe they won’t. We’re all different and cope with things differently. I’ve seen highly talented kids - capable of performing at the highest level - not end with success due to the pressures put on them from the start. Not because they’re weak or not good enough, but because they are poorly managed; pushed too hard too early and / or lumped with unrealistically high expectations before they start. Some kids need time to adjust. It’s just human nature. It’s a lot of pressure on Zabel. I just hope he’s the type of kid you describe. Otherwise it could destroy any chance and hope he has.
Here's some food for thought:
Looking at my post below, I am most intrigued by New Orleans. With Klint Kubiak, John Benton, and Rick Dennison coaching, they predicted the Saints as the worst OL in the NFL in 2024.
The final ranking of the Saints OL? 22
With rookie Fuaga and first time starter Penning starting the whole season.
With the best OL and elite center, McCoy missing 10 games.
With so many OL going down and playing out of position to field a complete OL that they not only needed to elevate PS players to starters, they needed to sign a center off of the Jets PS to start.
With all of that, the Saints OL outperformed preseason expectations by 11 spots. That's a classic sign of damned good coaching.
This year with the Seahawks, WE now have Kubiak, Benton, and Dennison, and we add Outten.
What do you think are the chances of the Seahawks OL wildly outperforming expectations this year?
I think it's pretty damned good.
Short answer: I agree!!
I prattle on: Just because a team or a unit has been bad for a while is no reason to think they have to get better, because they don't. The Browns, Jaguars, and Jets prove this point. Injuries and other "Luck" factors (both good and bad) tend to regress toward the mean, though, and I wonder how good the N.O. Saints' O-Line might have been last year if not for the injuries? We'll never know, but we do know that Seattle has upgraded their coaches, added better players, and is hoping for improvements from current players. All of the indicators are leaning towards positive.
I would love to see an in depth breakdown of our coaching staff on the o-line and offense. Perhaps defense as well. Where did they come from..quotes and opinions from former players on their quality. This is the first season I can remember in a LONG while us investing in quality coaching staff to elevate the play and technique of our offense.
Here you go...
https://www.seahawks.com/team/coaches-roster/
Can’t find it but SJ did on Benton a few months back. And Coach K.
Yes! The Benton article was excellent (and linked within the article) Would love the same for Dennison and others!
I don't read these negative "predictions" because of what you pointed out, KenJoe. I see the headlines and repeat to myself that these "analysts" (1st 4 letters is anal) are as full of shit as a Christmas goose. They are shooting for clicks and misleading the readers so why waste my time reading their bull shit
2024 Saints - David Carr, Chris Olave, Rashid Shaheed, Juwan Johnson, Taysom Hill
2025 Seahawks - Sam Darnold, JSN, Cooper Kupp, Kenneth Walker, Zach Charbonnet, Noah Fant, AJ Barner
If the 2024 Saints could lead the league in offense for 2 games I see no reason why the Hawks can't this year.
Let's hope it's for more than 2 games
I believe if you took the same personnel we had last year and had to deal with all the same injuries, but put this coaching staff in charge, we'd have been mediocre. If these guys play well together, the media will talk about drafting Zabel, and Lucas getting healthy, and Cross taking the next step, but the best offseason addition will have been a couple of 60+ year old dudes.
I’ve been saying that. If Eagles had 2 starting Cs, 3 starting RGs and 4 starting RTs, they aren’t Super Bowl
Champs.