Thank you Kenneth! You have succinctly put into the words the annoyance and sheer exhaustion of listening to that cabal of fans who cannot credit Pete and John with doing anything positive since 2014, joyfully wheeling out the same morose mantra that the Hawks will continue to be a dysfunctional basement-dweller until they are got rid of. Yes mistakes have been made - they got away from the core philosophy when they made Russ the highest paid NFL player ever, drafting has sometimes been been average and some big trades have gone awry - but they deserve their shot to redo the magic of 2012.
Hoping you can somehow keep this standard up - it’s exceptional in my book.
With you on this 100%, Kenneth. I love watching Pete's enthusiasm, his approach of helping players succeed rather than just yelling at them, and his commitment to improve the society in which his players live. Pete is a big part of the entertainment the Hawks provide and I will miss him when he's no longer coach.
Well phrased. Loved Russ, but also happy with moving on. If Pete and John haven't earned the right to do this, who has? Shoot, Belichick hasn't won a SB without Brady and when he constantly lets veterans walk everyone talks about how wise he is. If anyone has ever studied Pete or read his book, he has to stay true to himself because at previous stops he was undermined and he didn't really understand who he was. I'm happy to see what happens. If it doesn't work, so be it. But I'm not going to root against it, and be a miserable SOB like so many are. People get spoiled really quick.
Well put, nice to hear someone in the media noting that Pete has like everyone, made choices that turn out to be positive or negative, but generally errs to the positive. All of us questioning his choices would be lucky to say the same. And it's really important to remember that all these choices have far-reaching ramifications in all aspects of the team, and it's not as simple as people seem to imply. I will say it was nice to see him so genuinely excited!
PCJS 100% deserve to lead this rebuild. They’re 1-1 in rebuilds thus far. First one being an all-time great team, (from the ashes of what many considered the worst roster in the NFL at the time). Team building hasn’t been as strong since, but they’ve got more resources than ever, let’s see how they do.
"preaching positive messages to players and fans, while staying out of the headlines entirely for character damaging reasons." This alone is more than enough. Gratitude, Pete.
Well, all aboard for the issue of sainthood to Pete Carroll. Reality check. He's one man, with a staff, and a G.M.--- no different than any other head coach.
By far Pete Carroll. I loved Russ let's see if he can use the middle of the field. No knock but defenses did leave that "NFL" open" You know Geno could be the QB who knows
I agree with much of what you write these days but this comment is demonstrably false:
"Carroll had never lost 10 games before, until finally 2021 put a 17th game on the schedule. That’s what finally got him."
In fact, the Seahawks 10th loss came in their 15th game (week 16 including the bye week). It placed them at 5 and 10. They then won the last two to go 7 and 10.
I do think Carroll has very real strengths as a coach but very real deficiencies too. He's had a great record in Seattle but it coincides with his having a great QB under center and he's worked hard to hammer Wilson's skill set into his (Carroll's) run-first, defense-oriented, time of possession control vision of football.
Had he not had a QB he could reign in and then let loose late in the fourth quarter with the game on the line to consistently good results, I think he'd have been fired years ago.
No Kenneth, he hasn’t got you at all. The ‘extra’ game was against the Steelers, as we played eight of our regular schedule games against the NFC North and AFC South. So remove that one that we lost ....we are 7 - 9.
We were blanked on offense in the second half of 2020 because Russell couldn't adapt, not because of play calling and Russ was just plain bad last year regardless of the reason. You act like it's a coincidence that Pete has spent the last twenty years as one of the winningest coaches at the highest levels of football. Had Russ not gotten a big head and been unable to adapt we might have achieved greater heights.
Didn't do anything in the NFL until Russ came along. And he forced Russ to play a style that didn't take full advantage of his talents except for five or six games at the beginning of the 2020 season. After the first loss, Pete appeared to take it upon himself to restore "order".
I'm not saying Wilson has nothing to do with what went wrong. I sometimes wonder if, after the experiment was shut down, he had his heart in games the same way he did before. We know that last season and this, Russ was making major noises reflecting a discouragement that was clearly not there when he signed his contract extension. He wanted some meaningful changes or to go elsewhere. The Seahawks seemed to oblige by hiring Waldron but then it seemed that Carroll kept him on a short leash.
Of course none of us was there to know what happened so we speculate. We do know that there were signs of a new style which were later shut down and that Carroll made a derisive reference to the term "let Russ cook". We also know that Waldron was creative in his first game as OC and then it was gone. We returned to Pete ball.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not a strong critic of Carroll. I see him as having real strengths and weaknesses. I don't see him in the pantheon of great NFL coaches because he lacked adaptability. He is the best Seattle coach we've had and I remember back to Knox.
Pete had a ten year run at the top of the college ranks. If you read about Pete's history you'll find that he credits his success to learning from his past and making a sigificant change to his coaching style that conicided to his success at USC. I think Pete's all about being adaptable but every successful coach has a formula. We did play to Russ' strenghts with lots of RPO but teams adapted. The "let Russ cook" era was ended by opposing defenses, not Pete. Pete merely did what was required to stop the turnover carnage. It was Russ who didn't adapt to defenses taking away his long ball. It's obvious Russ is a great talent but I truly believe his obsession with his legacy has destroyed one of his greatest strengths which was coachability. I think is funny how fans have trashed Pete's insistence on running the ball but when you survey the league that's what every good team is doing. GB, Rams, SF, Tampa Bay, Tenessee, Buffalo, Cincy, and even KC all have significant running games.
I think Carroll has demonstrated plenty of stubbornness and in a lot of ways. There are far more adaptable coaches who play to the strengths of their team from year to year and game to game. Belichick for instance. In week 13 against the Bills, Jones attempted all of three passes because Belichick assessed the strengths of each team and the reality of the weather. It worked. The Patriots won that game. No way Carroll does something like that.
None of which means he's not a good coach. He's been to two superbowls and won one. One has to question the call at the end of the second. His clock management sucks. His conservative play calling. His stubbornness. But he's got strengths too. He molds a very positive environment. We've seen guys who want to play for the Seahawks and have signed at a discount to come or stay here.
You make some good points, but one thing that sticks out was on Bellicheck’s run first approach to the week 13 Bills game, and the statement that Carroll would never do anything like that.
Bellicheck could do that because his QB is the malleable rookie Mac Jones (and before him, a malleable Brady). Carroll however would’ve had future HoF QB and (near) highest paid NFL player if all time in Wilson, who he knew was disgruntled and was copywriting ‘let Russ cook’ (I still struggle to believe he did that). I don’t think anyone would really expect Carroll to tell Russ that he would only be throwing three times in a game.
You're missing my point. There's no way Belichick would do that with Russ. He wouldn't waste a tool in his arsenal. He would find creative ways to get Russ cooking and keep him cooking when defenses learned to adjust. Carroll doesn't have that kind of creativity and he doesn't trust his assistants. He pounds square pegs into round holes.
Belichick is absolutely unique in his ability to radically change his game plan from week to week. The vast majority of winning coaches have a style. McVay, Shanahan, LaFleur, and Reid all have innovative approaches but it's basically the same plan for their entire tenure. What other successful, defensive minded coach has been willing to make as radical a change as Pete has this offseason? He tried letting Russ cook until it didn't work. Pete introduced fun practices with music blasting, a defensive style the rest of the league copied, and he drafted/started a 5'9" QB and changed the leagues approach to QBs. I think Pete has been extremely inventive and adaptable but you have to be stubborn on the things you believe in. The necessity for a strong running game as been portrayed as stubborn but look what every good team is doing today. The run-and-shoot, spread-it-out, and all pass genre has pretty much died in the NFL. My biggest complaint about Russ' play was his inability to accept/execute the short passing game intregal to any westcoast concept. Russ wants to be the hero every play. Pete's approach is let's just do what it takes to win.
Thank you Kenneth! You have succinctly put into the words the annoyance and sheer exhaustion of listening to that cabal of fans who cannot credit Pete and John with doing anything positive since 2014, joyfully wheeling out the same morose mantra that the Hawks will continue to be a dysfunctional basement-dweller until they are got rid of. Yes mistakes have been made - they got away from the core philosophy when they made Russ the highest paid NFL player ever, drafting has sometimes been been average and some big trades have gone awry - but they deserve their shot to redo the magic of 2012.
Hoping you can somehow keep this standard up - it’s exceptional in my book.
thanks johnny! i hope i can keep it up too!
Holy hell, well said!
With you on this 100%, Kenneth. I love watching Pete's enthusiasm, his approach of helping players succeed rather than just yelling at them, and his commitment to improve the society in which his players live. Pete is a big part of the entertainment the Hawks provide and I will miss him when he's no longer coach.
Well phrased. Loved Russ, but also happy with moving on. If Pete and John haven't earned the right to do this, who has? Shoot, Belichick hasn't won a SB without Brady and when he constantly lets veterans walk everyone talks about how wise he is. If anyone has ever studied Pete or read his book, he has to stay true to himself because at previous stops he was undermined and he didn't really understand who he was. I'm happy to see what happens. If it doesn't work, so be it. But I'm not going to root against it, and be a miserable SOB like so many are. People get spoiled really quick.
Well put, nice to hear someone in the media noting that Pete has like everyone, made choices that turn out to be positive or negative, but generally errs to the positive. All of us questioning his choices would be lucky to say the same. And it's really important to remember that all these choices have far-reaching ramifications in all aspects of the team, and it's not as simple as people seem to imply. I will say it was nice to see him so genuinely excited!
PCJS 100% deserve to lead this rebuild. They’re 1-1 in rebuilds thus far. First one being an all-time great team, (from the ashes of what many considered the worst roster in the NFL at the time). Team building hasn’t been as strong since, but they’ve got more resources than ever, let’s see how they do.
"preaching positive messages to players and fans, while staying out of the headlines entirely for character damaging reasons." This alone is more than enough. Gratitude, Pete.
Well, all aboard for the issue of sainthood to Pete Carroll. Reality check. He's one man, with a staff, and a G.M.--- no different than any other head coach.
The best quarterback in the NFL will be middle of the road without an OL. This is one of your best.
Thank you!
By far Pete Carroll. I loved Russ let's see if he can use the middle of the field. No knock but defenses did leave that "NFL" open" You know Geno could be the QB who knows
He might be!
I agree with much of what you write these days but this comment is demonstrably false:
"Carroll had never lost 10 games before, until finally 2021 put a 17th game on the schedule. That’s what finally got him."
In fact, the Seahawks 10th loss came in their 15th game (week 16 including the bye week). It placed them at 5 and 10. They then won the last two to go 7 and 10.
I do think Carroll has very real strengths as a coach but very real deficiencies too. He's had a great record in Seattle but it coincides with his having a great QB under center and he's worked hard to hammer Wilson's skill set into his (Carroll's) run-first, defense-oriented, time of possession control vision of football.
Had he not had a QB he could reign in and then let loose late in the fourth quarter with the game on the line to consistently good results, I think he'd have been fired years ago.
Haha, you got me there.
No Kenneth, he hasn’t got you at all. The ‘extra’ game was against the Steelers, as we played eight of our regular schedule games against the NFC North and AFC South. So remove that one that we lost ....we are 7 - 9.
Hey that's true too! ha
We were blanked on offense in the second half of 2020 because Russell couldn't adapt, not because of play calling and Russ was just plain bad last year regardless of the reason. You act like it's a coincidence that Pete has spent the last twenty years as one of the winningest coaches at the highest levels of football. Had Russ not gotten a big head and been unable to adapt we might have achieved greater heights.
Didn't do anything in the NFL until Russ came along. And he forced Russ to play a style that didn't take full advantage of his talents except for five or six games at the beginning of the 2020 season. After the first loss, Pete appeared to take it upon himself to restore "order".
I'm not saying Wilson has nothing to do with what went wrong. I sometimes wonder if, after the experiment was shut down, he had his heart in games the same way he did before. We know that last season and this, Russ was making major noises reflecting a discouragement that was clearly not there when he signed his contract extension. He wanted some meaningful changes or to go elsewhere. The Seahawks seemed to oblige by hiring Waldron but then it seemed that Carroll kept him on a short leash.
Of course none of us was there to know what happened so we speculate. We do know that there were signs of a new style which were later shut down and that Carroll made a derisive reference to the term "let Russ cook". We also know that Waldron was creative in his first game as OC and then it was gone. We returned to Pete ball.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not a strong critic of Carroll. I see him as having real strengths and weaknesses. I don't see him in the pantheon of great NFL coaches because he lacked adaptability. He is the best Seattle coach we've had and I remember back to Knox.
Pete had a ten year run at the top of the college ranks. If you read about Pete's history you'll find that he credits his success to learning from his past and making a sigificant change to his coaching style that conicided to his success at USC. I think Pete's all about being adaptable but every successful coach has a formula. We did play to Russ' strenghts with lots of RPO but teams adapted. The "let Russ cook" era was ended by opposing defenses, not Pete. Pete merely did what was required to stop the turnover carnage. It was Russ who didn't adapt to defenses taking away his long ball. It's obvious Russ is a great talent but I truly believe his obsession with his legacy has destroyed one of his greatest strengths which was coachability. I think is funny how fans have trashed Pete's insistence on running the ball but when you survey the league that's what every good team is doing. GB, Rams, SF, Tampa Bay, Tenessee, Buffalo, Cincy, and even KC all have significant running games.
I think Carroll has demonstrated plenty of stubbornness and in a lot of ways. There are far more adaptable coaches who play to the strengths of their team from year to year and game to game. Belichick for instance. In week 13 against the Bills, Jones attempted all of three passes because Belichick assessed the strengths of each team and the reality of the weather. It worked. The Patriots won that game. No way Carroll does something like that.
None of which means he's not a good coach. He's been to two superbowls and won one. One has to question the call at the end of the second. His clock management sucks. His conservative play calling. His stubbornness. But he's got strengths too. He molds a very positive environment. We've seen guys who want to play for the Seahawks and have signed at a discount to come or stay here.
You make some good points, but one thing that sticks out was on Bellicheck’s run first approach to the week 13 Bills game, and the statement that Carroll would never do anything like that.
Bellicheck could do that because his QB is the malleable rookie Mac Jones (and before him, a malleable Brady). Carroll however would’ve had future HoF QB and (near) highest paid NFL player if all time in Wilson, who he knew was disgruntled and was copywriting ‘let Russ cook’ (I still struggle to believe he did that). I don’t think anyone would really expect Carroll to tell Russ that he would only be throwing three times in a game.
You're missing my point. There's no way Belichick would do that with Russ. He wouldn't waste a tool in his arsenal. He would find creative ways to get Russ cooking and keep him cooking when defenses learned to adjust. Carroll doesn't have that kind of creativity and he doesn't trust his assistants. He pounds square pegs into round holes.
Belichick is absolutely unique in his ability to radically change his game plan from week to week. The vast majority of winning coaches have a style. McVay, Shanahan, LaFleur, and Reid all have innovative approaches but it's basically the same plan for their entire tenure. What other successful, defensive minded coach has been willing to make as radical a change as Pete has this offseason? He tried letting Russ cook until it didn't work. Pete introduced fun practices with music blasting, a defensive style the rest of the league copied, and he drafted/started a 5'9" QB and changed the leagues approach to QBs. I think Pete has been extremely inventive and adaptable but you have to be stubborn on the things you believe in. The necessity for a strong running game as been portrayed as stubborn but look what every good team is doing today. The run-and-shoot, spread-it-out, and all pass genre has pretty much died in the NFL. My biggest complaint about Russ' play was his inability to accept/execute the short passing game intregal to any westcoast concept. Russ wants to be the hero every play. Pete's approach is let's just do what it takes to win.