I look at the QB situation this way: If Carroll wanted to start Smith, we’d know; but, he doesn’t want to hand the job to Lock. Pete will take the risk of fewer reps for the winner because he believes that (1) if it’s Lock, winning a competition will be better for him than a full set of reps, (2) Geno is a such a known quantity that a full set of reps won’t make much difference, and (3) in any case this is risk worth taking to find out whether Lock is the guy. This is predicated on the assumption that Carroll does not necessarily believe that the results will be underwhelming no matter who he chooses.
While I don’t hold out much hope for Lock, it is worth taking a long look at him if there is a sliver of a chance that he can meet the Hasselbeck Threshold.* For one thing, this would put next year’s draft in an entirely different light.
* Where a GM cannot build a consistently successful team unless the QB is at least as good as Matt Hasselbeck.
If Pete really wants to win as many games as possible next season, he should tell John to get on the phone with Cleveland. I'll admit to not having watched much of Lock in NFL games, but what I have seen and the numbers suggest that he's not a starter. We know what Geno is.
While I am very, very happy that we failed in our quest to land DeShaun Watson, that's for off-field reasons. Outside of him I wanted the best QB available and I don't see another player better than Mayfield at this point. The Browns became my wife's backup team after we watched them celebrate their first win in an otherwise winless season, so I've watched a lot of Browns games since Baker was drafted. Outside of his post injury play last season, he's been good to very good on average and is tough as hell. It will be a contract year for him, and he'll have a lot to prove. Worst case scenario involving Mayfield seems orders of magnitude better than worst case scenario with Geno or Lock.
The conspiracy part of my brain thinks that the reason no one is willing to do business with Cleveland is their ire at the guaranteed contract they gave Watson. That's going to change the way contracts are done for star players from here on out. It's not because no one wants Baker, and certainly not if the Browns eat enough salary.
Silly me, I thought they already had 'decided' on Lock. 'Guess I breezed too fast through the last epic novel on this subject. Worn out trying to keep up. Now, I'll wait and see. LOL!
Forgotten in your analysis is that Geno Smith has already won the locker room. When he replaced Wilson last year, players celebrated Smith's successes and were hurt when he failed. I think they liked Smith more than Wilson, and Drew is entirely new to them.
I believe Pete understands this and will use the competition to give Lock a chance to win the player's support.
Everything you wrote today I am in agreement. I was holding my breath on your take of Chris Carson. Carson is a quality runningback and athlete, unfortunately you could not have a more difficult injury to deal with. Looking at this positively Pete Carroll loves Chris Carson and what he can do. I am pretty certain Carson is not a rah, rah, guy, but he is a leader. Just the way he attacks would be tacklers, he brings the hurt to them. He has scored some of the best two yard touchdowns that you could hope to see. Carson catches the ball very well and pass blocks at the same level. Just how the coaching staff will be able to judge Carson's reliability, has to be very difficult. In no order, can he take a battering and play in at least 12 to 14 games. Will he be able to play second or third string. I am not saying that's where he belongs, it's that sitting for 2 1/2 quarters before your called on, is a young man's game. I do believe Pete Carroll cares about his players as much as an NFL coach can. Will Pete be able to sign off on Carson playing if there is even a small chance of there being a life altering injury. I don't want to see him in pain for decades to come.
I think Drew Lock needs to get the lions share of reps to begin with. If both Geno, and Drew are able to play to their best ability, Drew Lock has more upside. If being the most important intangible. Also Geno knows the offense and receivers, so the first 10 to 14 days, 60/40 with Lock getting 60. I like the way 5 foot 8 Levi plays football.
Finally I remember a question being asked when has a quarterback moved teams and made a marked improvement or had success. I reached into the recesses of my memory and decided on Jim Plunkett. I actually didn't need to go quite that far back. After ruminating on this subconsciously I remember a player who was a hot mess after playing for his first NFL team and becoming one of the best to ever do it. He sat behind a Hall of Famer. He had maybe the best ever offensive mind to coach football at his second stop. This fellow threw a bucket load of ints at his first stop but he could run. I am speaking of Steve Young. In no way could I say that Drew Lock will be the next Steve Young, but his new address and Pete's positivity could coax out the obvious talent. I would like nothing more for Lock to have a season where he is 3 to 1 in Tds vs ints. The media just can't believe Seattle would go into the season with Drew Lock. If by good fortune or skill would it not be great to be playing meaningful football in December, just to say F You to so many so called experts. If not we will more than likely chose a good one in Grayson McCall. For every Seaside Joe reader that would be awesome.
Love Chris Carson , but if the medicals aren't 100% sure he is fully healthy he should retire like Cam Bam for his futures sake. However , if the meds check out, a backfield of Carson, Penney and Walker would be the best in the league. Curran looked like a starter last year. Lucas or Curran, nice problem to have.
Get Baker Mayfield. The other 2 are backups at best. Draft the quarterback you want in next year's draft. Mayfield will prove he's the one. I think he would be the final piece to the puzzle.
I wonder if the "open competition" is Pete's way to see who will take up the mental side of that leadership role. We know Russ came in and right away took up that mentality, and knocked Flynn (who we had just signed to a contract) off the throne. If Lock can command the team and lead, well then he's got the talent and mindset, go get it. If Geno rises up, well I don't think he has as much talent, but then so be it. I just haven't read or seen that alpha male mindset yet from Lock. I think Geno will be the starter. This is just speculation from an invested fan though.
Abe Lucas was actually a product of a run and shoot offense the last 2 years.. prior to that was Mike Leach's air raid system.
Wish writers would research a little before spouting the same wrong info.
WSU ran like 362 running plays for nearly 1500 yrds in the 2021 season. I dont think Abe Lucas's run blocking is not as bad as people think it is.
If im not mistaken Geno Smith joined seattle for the 2019 season making him a 3 yr veteran of this team. Not that it matters. Beating the 2021 jaguars at a 5 yrds average pass attempt is not lighting it on fire..
Blaming former HC Fangio, for Locks 3 scintillating years at Denver, conveniently misses the point. It wasn't Fangio throwing, all the incompletions, the 14 interceptions to 16 tds, and he wasnt responsible for all the clutch time failures.
What happens if Lock goes 1 and 4 and Smith goes 0 and3 ?Wait till next year and draft a rookie QB, hoping he can be the next franchise QB in year 1. Good luck. Why not pick up Mayfield or Minshew who have shown they can win now? Sorry, but replacing Wilson with Lock is a joke.
I’d be surprised if the starting QB had not been decided already. The competition will be to see if Smith/ Lock can do well enough to be the starter for the future. Will we feel the need to trade up and get the Jag’s number one pick in next years draft?
When I start getting excited about the new QB and how successful we’ll be for this year, I can’t help but remember how absolutely lousy our defense was last year. Too many times we couldn’t get off the field.
Maybe we have that fixed. Let’s see; we switched coaches, we’re going to still drop 7 and rush 4 guys, but, we’ll be in a 5/2 or a 3/4 alignment instead of a 4/3. Will I feel confident our defense has the advantage in third and long situations?
Will it matter who’s under center if they’re only getting the ball 3 or 4 times a half because the other side is running with 9 to 11 play drives.
I'd say start Lock and work his tail off with the best QB coaches you can find. Don't give up on him. Develop the running game, the short passing game. In the long run anyone else out there that might come in would need the same treatment. Build the team around the skills available. That is what coaches are there for.
Save $4.6m to roll Carson's salary over to next year by cutting him when we are SO loaded with 2023 cap room seems to be mute over the possibility that his skills are still at least occasionally near premium. I say keep him - even if he is just a #2a or 2b back and only cut him if he is a #3 or laid up.
As for QBs, remember in 2012 when Tarvares Jackson was the #1, Matt Flynn the high priced incoming talent and Russ was the promising rookie? Pete said "We know what Jackson can do." while justifying his almost NO reps. Flynn was mildly injured and did not get many reps either. Circumstances lead to the #3 (DangeRuss) getting the Most opportunities to shine, which he did.
This year, I suspect Geno (being the 'known quantity') will be the virtually no reps guy, while Lock gets a Lot of nurturing and opportunity, even though they will call him the #2, he will easily be given #1 reps throughout the mini-camps and pre-season.
I say coaching will key in on Lock as the Seahawks' day one starter. Geno is the insurance in 2022, just in case. With this running game, not as likely to be needed as people are predicting.
I look at the QB situation this way: If Carroll wanted to start Smith, we’d know; but, he doesn’t want to hand the job to Lock. Pete will take the risk of fewer reps for the winner because he believes that (1) if it’s Lock, winning a competition will be better for him than a full set of reps, (2) Geno is a such a known quantity that a full set of reps won’t make much difference, and (3) in any case this is risk worth taking to find out whether Lock is the guy. This is predicated on the assumption that Carroll does not necessarily believe that the results will be underwhelming no matter who he chooses.
While I don’t hold out much hope for Lock, it is worth taking a long look at him if there is a sliver of a chance that he can meet the Hasselbeck Threshold.* For one thing, this would put next year’s draft in an entirely different light.
* Where a GM cannot build a consistently successful team unless the QB is at least as good as Matt Hasselbeck.
If Pete really wants to win as many games as possible next season, he should tell John to get on the phone with Cleveland. I'll admit to not having watched much of Lock in NFL games, but what I have seen and the numbers suggest that he's not a starter. We know what Geno is.
While I am very, very happy that we failed in our quest to land DeShaun Watson, that's for off-field reasons. Outside of him I wanted the best QB available and I don't see another player better than Mayfield at this point. The Browns became my wife's backup team after we watched them celebrate their first win in an otherwise winless season, so I've watched a lot of Browns games since Baker was drafted. Outside of his post injury play last season, he's been good to very good on average and is tough as hell. It will be a contract year for him, and he'll have a lot to prove. Worst case scenario involving Mayfield seems orders of magnitude better than worst case scenario with Geno or Lock.
The conspiracy part of my brain thinks that the reason no one is willing to do business with Cleveland is their ire at the guaranteed contract they gave Watson. That's going to change the way contracts are done for star players from here on out. It's not because no one wants Baker, and certainly not if the Browns eat enough salary.
I know that Pete incessantly wants to add “Always Com-”
For Pete’s sake was that a pun?
Silly me, I thought they already had 'decided' on Lock. 'Guess I breezed too fast through the last epic novel on this subject. Worn out trying to keep up. Now, I'll wait and see. LOL!
Forgotten in your analysis is that Geno Smith has already won the locker room. When he replaced Wilson last year, players celebrated Smith's successes and were hurt when he failed. I think they liked Smith more than Wilson, and Drew is entirely new to them.
I believe Pete understands this and will use the competition to give Lock a chance to win the player's support.
Everything you wrote today I am in agreement. I was holding my breath on your take of Chris Carson. Carson is a quality runningback and athlete, unfortunately you could not have a more difficult injury to deal with. Looking at this positively Pete Carroll loves Chris Carson and what he can do. I am pretty certain Carson is not a rah, rah, guy, but he is a leader. Just the way he attacks would be tacklers, he brings the hurt to them. He has scored some of the best two yard touchdowns that you could hope to see. Carson catches the ball very well and pass blocks at the same level. Just how the coaching staff will be able to judge Carson's reliability, has to be very difficult. In no order, can he take a battering and play in at least 12 to 14 games. Will he be able to play second or third string. I am not saying that's where he belongs, it's that sitting for 2 1/2 quarters before your called on, is a young man's game. I do believe Pete Carroll cares about his players as much as an NFL coach can. Will Pete be able to sign off on Carson playing if there is even a small chance of there being a life altering injury. I don't want to see him in pain for decades to come.
I think Drew Lock needs to get the lions share of reps to begin with. If both Geno, and Drew are able to play to their best ability, Drew Lock has more upside. If being the most important intangible. Also Geno knows the offense and receivers, so the first 10 to 14 days, 60/40 with Lock getting 60. I like the way 5 foot 8 Levi plays football.
Finally I remember a question being asked when has a quarterback moved teams and made a marked improvement or had success. I reached into the recesses of my memory and decided on Jim Plunkett. I actually didn't need to go quite that far back. After ruminating on this subconsciously I remember a player who was a hot mess after playing for his first NFL team and becoming one of the best to ever do it. He sat behind a Hall of Famer. He had maybe the best ever offensive mind to coach football at his second stop. This fellow threw a bucket load of ints at his first stop but he could run. I am speaking of Steve Young. In no way could I say that Drew Lock will be the next Steve Young, but his new address and Pete's positivity could coax out the obvious talent. I would like nothing more for Lock to have a season where he is 3 to 1 in Tds vs ints. The media just can't believe Seattle would go into the season with Drew Lock. If by good fortune or skill would it not be great to be playing meaningful football in December, just to say F You to so many so called experts. If not we will more than likely chose a good one in Grayson McCall. For every Seaside Joe reader that would be awesome.
Love Chris Carson , but if the medicals aren't 100% sure he is fully healthy he should retire like Cam Bam for his futures sake. However , if the meds check out, a backfield of Carson, Penney and Walker would be the best in the league. Curran looked like a starter last year. Lucas or Curran, nice problem to have.
Get Baker Mayfield. The other 2 are backups at best. Draft the quarterback you want in next year's draft. Mayfield will prove he's the one. I think he would be the final piece to the puzzle.
I wonder if the "open competition" is Pete's way to see who will take up the mental side of that leadership role. We know Russ came in and right away took up that mentality, and knocked Flynn (who we had just signed to a contract) off the throne. If Lock can command the team and lead, well then he's got the talent and mindset, go get it. If Geno rises up, well I don't think he has as much talent, but then so be it. I just haven't read or seen that alpha male mindset yet from Lock. I think Geno will be the starter. This is just speculation from an invested fan though.
Abe Lucas was actually a product of a run and shoot offense the last 2 years.. prior to that was Mike Leach's air raid system.
Wish writers would research a little before spouting the same wrong info.
WSU ran like 362 running plays for nearly 1500 yrds in the 2021 season. I dont think Abe Lucas's run blocking is not as bad as people think it is.
If im not mistaken Geno Smith joined seattle for the 2019 season making him a 3 yr veteran of this team. Not that it matters. Beating the 2021 jaguars at a 5 yrds average pass attempt is not lighting it on fire..
Blaming former HC Fangio, for Locks 3 scintillating years at Denver, conveniently misses the point. It wasn't Fangio throwing, all the incompletions, the 14 interceptions to 16 tds, and he wasnt responsible for all the clutch time failures.
What happens if Lock goes 1 and 4 and Smith goes 0 and3 ?Wait till next year and draft a rookie QB, hoping he can be the next franchise QB in year 1. Good luck. Why not pick up Mayfield or Minshew who have shown they can win now? Sorry, but replacing Wilson with Lock is a joke.
This just in, Levi Lewis was waived.
START PENNY , GENO, LUCAS and CROSS ! Would you rather have a former 1st rnd QB and a 2nd rnd RB back there while the tackles get up to NFL speed ???
MORE INTERESTED in the DEFENSE out of the GATE, like EARLY LOB ! If we start 0-3 or 0-4 , they can change things up.
I’d be surprised if the starting QB had not been decided already. The competition will be to see if Smith/ Lock can do well enough to be the starter for the future. Will we feel the need to trade up and get the Jag’s number one pick in next years draft?
When I start getting excited about the new QB and how successful we’ll be for this year, I can’t help but remember how absolutely lousy our defense was last year. Too many times we couldn’t get off the field.
Maybe we have that fixed. Let’s see; we switched coaches, we’re going to still drop 7 and rush 4 guys, but, we’ll be in a 5/2 or a 3/4 alignment instead of a 4/3. Will I feel confident our defense has the advantage in third and long situations?
Will it matter who’s under center if they’re only getting the ball 3 or 4 times a half because the other side is running with 9 to 11 play drives.
I'd say start Lock and work his tail off with the best QB coaches you can find. Don't give up on him. Develop the running game, the short passing game. In the long run anyone else out there that might come in would need the same treatment. Build the team around the skills available. That is what coaches are there for.
Hey Kenneth -
Save $4.6m to roll Carson's salary over to next year by cutting him when we are SO loaded with 2023 cap room seems to be mute over the possibility that his skills are still at least occasionally near premium. I say keep him - even if he is just a #2a or 2b back and only cut him if he is a #3 or laid up.
As for QBs, remember in 2012 when Tarvares Jackson was the #1, Matt Flynn the high priced incoming talent and Russ was the promising rookie? Pete said "We know what Jackson can do." while justifying his almost NO reps. Flynn was mildly injured and did not get many reps either. Circumstances lead to the #3 (DangeRuss) getting the Most opportunities to shine, which he did.
This year, I suspect Geno (being the 'known quantity') will be the virtually no reps guy, while Lock gets a Lot of nurturing and opportunity, even though they will call him the #2, he will easily be given #1 reps throughout the mini-camps and pre-season.
I say coaching will key in on Lock as the Seahawks' day one starter. Geno is the insurance in 2022, just in case. With this running game, not as likely to be needed as people are predicting.