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Largentium's avatar

I'll give Geno credit for playing his best game of the season. Sadly, it was in a meaningless game for the team. So it doesn't help his argument that he's a top QB in the NFC, let alone the league. It'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out this offseason.

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Charles R. Dyer's avatar

Since we don't have a lot of comments compared to other places, I like to read the comments in oldest first mode. While I appreciate all the SSJ commentators, I have noticed that the guys who nitpick (and sometimes write with preset minds) usually comment first. Thus, they get more likes and appear to overrepresent our community. We need the nitpickers, but we also need the more optimistic commentators, too.

Grubb was in his first year, installing a new system with fewer practices, especially with pads, than college players get. The recruiting process didn't even know what the team would be emphasizing until about a month before the draft. The O line coach couldn't even settle on a starting line until near the end of the season. Yet, Geno met all his incentives and the offense had fewer opportunities since the defense was also in learning mode, but still we won more games than the last two years and were just a play or two from squeeking into the playoffs. Grubb should stay.

More than half of Geno's interceptions were tipped balls and another quarter were receiver mistakes. Geno hit all his incentives despite having to suffer an enormous number of sacks and strip sacks due to a lousy O line. He routinely made throws that few other QBs in this league could make. The O line also left him with a horrible running game while we have very good running backs. Replacing him before we already have a decent soon-to-be franchise QB in waiting makes no sense. Geno is healthier than any other starting QB his age. Geno should stay.

The defense got more sacks than the 2013 Hawks. We didn't get the kind of linebackers needed for McDonald's system until mid-season. The D made significant strides.

Yes, the Hawks still need work. But let's move on to what we do need instead of grousing about things that are okay.

Go Hawks!

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Charles R. Dyer's avatar

Evidently, Grubb was fired while I was writing my comment. Frankly, I don't like it. But there may be factors that weren't reported.

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Stephen Pitell's avatar

There are always factors that aren't reported, but I agree with you that I don't like it.

OTOH, looking back on the situation, a rookie head coach paired with a rookie to the NFL OC chosen by a third party seems like a marriage doomed to failure, for one reason or another. In fact, in retrospect it seems like mismanagement by JS. If he was going to force an OC down MM's throat, he should have saddled him with someone with a lot of NFL experience, not none.

As to Grubb, I wish him luck. I'm sure he will be OK.

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Chris H's avatar

And so it ends, and begins. Many decisions to be made, and I'm very curious what the team will look like by the start of OTA's. 10 wins in year 1 of a new staff is absolutely a great starting point. At least we'll be in the conversations for coaches early this year instead of very late in the process like last year. Coach Mac didn't have much to pick from by the time he was hired.

I wanted the team to be coming together in the back half of the year, and a 6-2 finish shows me that they are doing just that......flaws and all.

JS and MM now need to get to work to build on the foundation. Find 2 more wins in the offseason. That's all. Just 2 more wins.

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PhilippRttr's avatar

I know most don't like to hear that now because of obvious reasons but:

New Coaching staff

10-7

2-0 Cards

1-1 9ers

1-1 Rams

If not for 1 series (you can call whichever you want, there were many who could have won us a game we lost) we would be NFC West winners and into the playoffs.

Defense was way better than last year

Leo Williams 11 Sacks

We have our highest Draft picks

We have young players who will own their extensions.

So in my opinion the season was better than expected, not great but I am absolutely with Geno, I am confident that there will be progression and that next year the Hawks will be back in the Playoffs with a hungry team and a fearsome defense.

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Paul G's avatar

I don’t read too much into this game, not when at any given time 22 guys’ top priority was to not get hurt.

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Barry R Carlson's avatar

SSJ,

Question unrelated to today’s column:

Why do you call the Commanders the Moons?

I know you’ve done this for a long time.

I just don’t know the history behind it.

Could you enlighten me?

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Dale's avatar

Geno saying he wants to continue fighting with these guys - Well, maybe that’s a sign he’s ready to negotiate a reasonable price for him to stay? Not saying that’s good or bad, but it’s gonna be an interesting few weeks with roster news.

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Paul G's avatar

I’m certain that Geno regards any price at which he is willing to play as reasonable.

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Phil's avatar

While acknowledging the Rams sat many defensive players... the right side of our O line today was Olu, Laumea, and Jerrell. Two rookies and a 2nd year center, and they seemed to hold up pretty well. I haven't re-watched the game yet, but unlike other years there are young O lineman on the roster that we can hope will develop into valuable pieces.

SS Joe often advocates drafting college tackles to become NFL guards - what about Jerrell doing that if Lucas comes back healthy? Have him and Haines compete for the LG spot, along with any new additions that come from the draft and free agency. The year-end OL roster seems to have much more up-side than prior years, given the number of snaps that young players managed to accumulate this year.

I'd like to see the focus in the next draft be a wide receiver, a great guard, and a quarterback to develop during Geno's last contract year.

DK is starting to remind me of the old beautiful blonde joke. Yeah, they're great looking, but somewhere in the background is a guy that's just plain tired of their shit. Getting tired of his entitled attitude / body language. Give his snaps to Cody White! Guy came out of nowhere off the practice squad to look like Doug Baldwin for a game, then disappears... DK is replaceable...

Same with Kenneth Walker. He is not a fit for what they want to be stylistically in the running game. He reminds me of Darrell Taylor, who only cared about doing wide speed rushes that paid off with a sack every 3rd game but never set an edge in his life. Walker only cares about making a cut back run to the house 3 or 4 times a year. If he has to lose yards on the rest of his carries to do that... so? MM got rid of Taylor right away; will he do the same with Walker on the offensive side after seeing how more effective Charbonnet and McIntosh were while Walker was out (again)? Will be an interesting off season.

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zezinhom400's avatar

I can’t have predicted a 9-8 season given the all-new coaching staff, two all-new schemes (offense and defense) and a weak OL, and then feel bad about finishing 10-7. I also cannot feel bad about going 4-2 in our division and beating both McVay (almost twice) and Shanahan, and sweeping the Cards. We are not getting outcoached so badly any longer.

Hell no we can’t stand pat and expect to do better with this team. In my irrelevant mind’s eye we need at least 1/3 of our current starters to move on — and their replacements have to be either better or cheaper so we can fund more Pro Bowl players, especially at guard. But if we do that (and I believe it’s executable) then I think we can do better next year.

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Paul G's avatar

There’s some luck in the 10-7: MM could coach another 25 years and not go 7-1 on the road. The 3-6 home record stings.

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Bob Johnston's avatar

The Hawks have been rebuilding and in a process like that I want to see them improve as the season goes on. After the first 9 games the Hawks were 4-5 with that record only looking average due to playing 3 bad teams out of the gate. The 2nd half of the season saw a marked improvement on defense and they finished 6-2, with their losses being to the Packers and a nailbiter against the Vikings. This was the improvement I had hoped to see last year that never materialized so I'll admit it, I'm hopeful for the future.

But being hopeful doesn't mean I'm seeing things through rose-colored glasses. The offense was borderline terrible - no 1st drive TDs, they barely averaged 20 points per game in the last 8 games, no running game to speak of, a decided lack of involvement of their supposedly top receiver and an O-line that can't consistently open holes or keep Geno upright. But we also saw the special teams game play steady if not spectacular football and the defense pushed teams around.

I don't think this team is too far off from being back to winning the NFC West and making a push in the playoffs.

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Mike Brophy's avatar

10-7 with 23 new coaches learning about 50+ players that before, knew very little about, making evaluations on the run-to me is successful… Now the critical YEAR 2 for coaches and players after a year together… Now there is No Excuse… Coaches have higher expectations, players now have a history with the coaches… To be a defensive, run oriented team, we need an O-Line serious upgrade, and running back depth… A lot of work ahead this off season… The question I ask in every post is “Who is evaluating the evaluator (JS)? We need an experienced Team President to supervise JS, and firmly provide direction. .. HELP and let me know if we have that person…

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Bryant's avatar

I’m happy the Hawks won, as I always am. However, since there was very little effect on draft status between a win or loss I was hoping to see Howell start. I wanted to see him after practicing with the “ones” for a week against somewhat real competition. I know Geno is adequate and maybe even a little better than that, but he is getting older and will need to be replaced sometime soon. It would have been nice to see if Howell is a realistic option to replace him.

It still seems obvious that upgrading the iOL is job one for the next offseason regardless of who the OC is next year.

I can’t knock 10-7 for a first time head coach, and hope he learned a lot that leads to further improvement next season.

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MOBILIZER's avatar

I'm not confident re the 2-3 year outlook. Too many middling seasons with enough wins to lock us out of the best draft picks. Without the Wilson trade, we'd be in even worse shape. The holes in the D line are going to open up again soon ( and the pass rush is in critical condition unless some miraculous development occurs), and the O line needs major surgery. And how long will it take to develop the post-Geno QB?

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Paul G's avatar

Huard says that this Seahawks team had more sacks through 16 games than the 2013 LOB.

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Paul Johnson's avatar

Wins and losses, great plays and dud plays, all that aside one aspect of this season has been better for me than most of the last six or seven. I joined seaside Joe almost a year ago, in the off season, and I have to say I learned a lot more about every aspect of the game and the team, thanks to SSJ and all the members comments. Come what may, I’m in for 2025.

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Mike McD's avatar

The Hawks defense looked fairly uninterested in that game. I am not reading too much into it but happy to win.

As far as competing goes … a couple of weeks ago we were up 4 with 4 minutes left against the 14-2 (maybe 15-2 after the game) Minnesota Vikings. If it weren’t for an unnecessary face mask call who knows. We also beat the Lions 2 out of the last 3 years in Detroit.

I’m not sure they can’t compete with those teams.

This season is different for me from the priors because of the rookie contribution. We have a bunch of impact players on cost controlled contracts. Which is why I think we should hit the gas pedal.

Last offseason we set out to improve the defense. We have.

Now it’s time to focus on offense. Which comes down to two things for me:

1) offensive line

2) offensive coordinator (whether you believe in Grubbs growth or through the seemingly attractive options on the market)

Lastly, it would really be a bad look for the Hawks if Geno hits $6M escalators and they cut him. Cut throat business for sure but I have hard time believing that is more likely than him coming back.

If it is the last game for Geno … way to go out on top. I will miss the guy.

Should be interesting offseason!

Go hawks

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Danno's avatar

I think Geno’s cap hit is now $44.5 million next year. They need to cut him or extend him by March 10th. Fist decision is on Grubb in the next 2 days.

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Mike McD's avatar

Yeah … I get the feeling Geno will be back. On an extension which will lower his first year hit and the escalators will be part of the negotiation process

That would send such a bad message to free agents and future contract negotiations that “hey if you hit your escalators we will just cut you”

I have hard time seeing the Hawks do that. But it is the NFL so who knows

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Danno's avatar

Well, I think we NEED to improve, and should consider improving every where we can every year, every month, and every week. From changing management, coaching, players and hopefully, eventually, ownership when they sell. This entire coaching staff save 1 was put together very late last year, and they were still figuring out what they were about when we entered free agency and the combine. They didn’t even go to the combine. Perhaps this lack of truly understanding what system and style the coaches were still settling upon is one reason free agency choices were such a disaster last year,and maybe led to some poor decisions in the draft.

I think with a year under his belt as head coach, MM can make decisive decisions to change and improve the coaching staff. I think the next 48 hours will see some coaches let go in favor of coaches who might be a better fit for MM and his system he wants to implement.

Players on the team today then need to be evaluated on their performance with their cost against the cap to decide if their value equals or exceeds their cost. After parsing the roster with cuts, evaluate which players should get contracts and extensions in light of what could be obtained via free agency, trade and the draft.

So the first decision coming tomorrow or Tuesday will be Grubb. Is he gone or does he get another year?

On another note, about 2 or 3 plays before DK’s TD catch he had the opportunity to catch a TD pass that hit him in both hands in stride and he dropped it. To me this has always been his biggest flaw. He has too many instances of dropping passes that many other great receivers make. They got the TD a few plays later, but this seems to be a problem he will always have and not something I think you pay $30 plus million for. Your thoughts?

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Paul G's avatar

“Perhaps this lack of truly understanding what system and style the coaches were still settling upon is one reason free agency choices were such a disaster last year,and maybe led to some poor decisions in the draft.”

This has been happening for nearly a decade regardless of coaches, system, and style.

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Mike McD's avatar

Excellent comment.

I lean towards Grubb being let go. I think that he is not ready for the NFL level that is much higher level of poker than college. I also believe he will get better which is why I don’t think it’s guaranteed.

The market for OCs seems like there could be some really strong candidates. I think MM wants to run defense and let the OC do his thing with minimal time and energy from him.

I wonder if DK might be closer to $27M. I would like to keep him but I agree that he is not and will not be a top level WR. But he is still very effective.

Having said that, if I need money to invest in O-line then I am trading DK before cutting Geno to open up cap space.

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JIMMY JOHNSON's avatar

I think DK has an effect on teammates that competes with MM's vision, which cannot continue. Given his drop rate is rookie-level, my bet is he's traded to a team with a QB (Russ) that get him the ball in clean air. Even then, it's iffy.

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Mike McD's avatar

Could be the case.

I am keeping the popcorn warm because I am interested to see what happens.

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Bryant's avatar

Apparently Grubb is out. JS and MM wasting no time.

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Mike McD's avatar

Yeah, unfortunately it didn't work out. But I think moving on is the right decision. Lots of talent at the OC postilion. And I don't think MM wants to hold Grubb's hand while he learns.

The NFL is the highest stakes chess match and Grubb was just not there yet. But he will be fine.

I wonder if any college to pro OC has worked on the first try?

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Bryant's avatar

It’s a tough transition, not sure of the success rate. I probably would have kept Grubb one more year, but I want MM to be comfortable with His OC so I’m not losing any sleep over this. I just hope Grubb doesn’t take what he learned this year to a rival and grow into the OC he was in college. Time will tell!

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JIMMY JOHNSON's avatar

Good point. Lee Vowell also made a good observation that in college ball, Grubb could exploit the weak links in defenses since the talent disparity is much wider than with the allstars brought to the NFL.

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Mike McD's avatar

Yeah ... I feel similar.

I think Grubb is most likely going back to college possibly Alabama.

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Danno's avatar

You say, “I believe he will get better,” about Grubb. I really have no idea what his up side is. The run game was a problem almost every week, but to what extent is that because we have the worst interior O-line in the league? Hopefully MM and JS know what his upside is, and if it is the O-line that’s the problem, can we please get JS to buy in on spending some money there. We signed 2 centers (both gone) and 2 guards (one still there but he needs to be gone). He has to pay for a real guard one day one of free agency. Also draft a center and a guard by the end of round 4.

I would trade DK if you could get something for him, but I worry his trade value is not what we hope. I would love for them to trade him to the Jets for Garrett Wilson, who wants out. But I don’t think They would like it as an even Steven trade. I also feel DK believes he is a $30 million dollar player. He might be, but he hasn’t played lie one the last 2 years.

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Mike McD's avatar

Yeah agree with all of this.

It’s the right question to ask about Grubb. What is the upside to stick with him and go through growing pains? Is it worth it?

Such a tough question that JS will need to make the call on. I’m interested to see … I lean letting him go.

Also interested to see what happens to DK and what he will command.

The NFL entertainment wheel keeps spinning

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Paul Johnson's avatar

I’ll give Grub credit for one tricky dazzle dazzle play, otherwise he’s just too vanilla. I don’t know if the job is that different going from college to the NFL. As with other aspects of the team’s play, the Oline probably made his job a nightmare. But that’s only an excuse for the average OC, it should be motivation for the outstanding. I think their poor performance on the offensive side of the ball is a result to be shared with Geno, Oline, and coaching. Those are the parts management needs to go to work on, either fixing or replacing the bad parts.

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JIMMY JOHNSON's avatar

In college, every team has very weak links on the field at any given time, which he could pry open and run/pass through the holes. Not so in the NFL. Every player is an allstar. Mistakes made are rapidly closed.

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Mike McD's avatar

I agree with much of the comment.

I think moving from College to Pro is huge move. Has anyone successfully done it on their first try?

Geno was already good under Waldron so I have a hard time putting much blame on him. The O-line was bad under Waldron also, but he and Pete mitigated the problem much better.

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