In a prior discussion, we were discussing the Rams (FTR's) use of 13 personnel, and what the Seahawks would do to counter. In the 4 games leading up to Sunday's match-up, the Rams were using it 38% of the time, with a 4.7 yards/play average. On Sunday they ran it 36% of the time, for a 2.7 yards/play average. And as expected, the Seahawks stayed with their big nickel package, and played it tough.
Taking what I've seen to this point in the season, I can easily see a Division Championship. The Ram's game notwithstanding, Darnold throws A LOT of dimes to a plethora of awesome recievers...and our Defense is AMAZING! Even after such an ugly loss, NO ONE wants to play the Seahawks.
With three or less interceptions a game we should STILL make the playoffs right? The stats (and a visibly dominant Defense) suggest that if Sam can keep interceptions down, to say two, we may beat the Rams next time. One QB Buster Keeton day does not a season make. If Sam has another day shooting himself (and the team) in the foot with such accuracy, perhaps the rookie QB (What's his name? Milroe?) could keep the interception rate under two per game?
I've been trying to understand my feelings about this game for the better part of a day and I think I'm so conflicted because this is literally a Super Bowl winning team for everything but the QB. And I'm not sure that isn't even true of the QB although there is a lot of evidence building that it is the case. I felt this way going into the 2012 season too and was so mad that Peyton Manning didn't give the Hawks the time of day because I thought they'd win THAT YEAR with him (instead of beating him up so bad the following year!).
For the last 8-9 years, every loss felt like it was somewhat inevitable because there were too many holes on the roster - they were (almost) always good but rarely ever great. I'd assume they'd win, rationalize away losses, but at the end of the year always look back and realize they just weren't good enough, all across the lineup. However, I think this is a championship caliber team for the next few years. I was hoping we had the QB to match because that seems to be a pretty important position! But, I'm not sure he is. But I'm also not sure he isn't. Conlict!!
Had to take the night off and recover from the game. As many noted, the defenses was great and LA punter had a dream putter at the end of the game.
Darnold had a very bad game, BUT what I’m left with is how KK wouldn’t adjust the game plan to include more receivers then JSN and Barner as the primary targets, it seem so forced to JSN. Give Darnold some easy targets with Arroyo, Kupp and Shaheed but they all seem to me as number 2 or 3 target (OK one deep ball to Shaheed and they don’t have the timing togather yet). KK could have cleared the mid middle with JSN and Barner and it would be wide open. I like KK, but he and Darnold are joined at the hip for this season and when one has a bad game the other needs to help!
For me, about the worst result from this loss is now we’re going to have to hear from all the ‘experts’ about how Sam can’t take the pressure of winning in the ‘big’ games. For most of the season these bloviators haven’t even noticed the hawks, then, in the last two weeks they've discovered’ ‘that Seattle team is legit’. And now they insinuate that Sam can’t win the big one. These guys are like a pack of tourists, running from one side of the boat to the other, all wanting to be the first to shout their wisdom.
The fact is, the hawks played a very good team with a very good defense … And still came within two points of winning! It’s all about the optics, none of them seem to be looking at the numbers. The guy threw four interceptions, what other team/QB can do that and still have more time of possession, more yards and come so close to winning? This is a damn good team, they are a danger to any other team who has to play them. I’m sure the hawks will play with fire in the belly from here on out.
Unfortunately, whether on the Seahawks or the Rams, SD is now in the Alex Smith tier. First round pick shoved into playing without development. Has now developed, but the first few years of playing will forever be the narrative.
that's high praise JJ. You'll notice that most of what I have to say is based on emotion not tech analysis, so it's really just an old man's opinion. But the old dog can learn new tricks; SSJ's deep knowledge of the data, the business side of the biz, and his projections based on facts are really helping me learn more about how X's 0's and $$$ shape a team, and a season. Really, all the comments from the regulars are great for me.
The game matched the hype, two really good teams going toe to toe right until the end. It was Ali vs. Frazier in the Thrilla in Manila. Darnold had an horrific game and yet kept his composure to manufacture a last drive from his own 1 foot line that gave the Hawks a reasonable chance to win. Not the final result I wanted, of course, but a strangely encouraging loss.
Was that a foot? Thought it was 6". The tail of that damn ball nearly grazed the pylon, never seen anything like that in my life. Best punt in history and arguably what won them the game (despite the 4 int's). Another 5 yards forward and my money's on Myers for the win. Not to mention the limited set of plays you're going to run from the 1' line..or the 6" line...
Although I will say it was maddening to watch the slow development of that sequence of plays. Would have been much better to spike a couple of those immediately after getting the 1st down -- it's 4-downs all the way anyway. Maddening. Just one more positive play is all we needed and prob could have had two, with better clock mgmt
“…the Seahawks may have only lost this game because Rams punter Ethan Evans had the kick of his life…” Heck, it was the best punt of *my* life of watching football for nearly 60 years.
Let me see. Our defense outplayed their offense. Our offense outplayed their defense (when they weren't giving them the ball). Our special teams played really well again. And we lost anyway, due to our QB's generosity. I'm disappointed, but strangely heartened. I think we're the better team, that just missed proving that. I mean, 4 turnovers and you lost by a few yards? In a weird way, that's impressive. But, perhaps I've just got my rose colored glasses on.
I am MUCH more concerned that two-thirds of our interior line is now injured. Hopefully Grey's injury isn't too significant.
Our defense is legit. The Seahawks showed that they are the better team as much after the game as during it. The defense vehemently supported Sam. The players refusing to lose faith, and staying tight is what good teams do. That will continue to show on the field, as well as off.
Seriously though, they won they game so they'll always have the better argument. I was just impressed with our our defense handled them, especially the last 3 quarters. And our offense moved the ball.....that wasn't an issue, especially in the 2nd half. Just the damn picks. I came away thinking we were the better team that beat itself.
I guess if we're either winning big, or losing close ones, we must be a solid team. For the past 5 years it's been either winning close ones, or losing in blow-outs. So, I'll take the 7-3 and in every game until the end.
I was happy to see the Hawks play the game to the last second. I had my concerns about their ability to do that the last few weeks. Overall, we were the better team IMO. The football gods just had it in for us today.
I don't "like" a loss. But this is the best worst game I can remember. First Sam:
Sam might have had 5 picks if the Ram hadn't hit his hand and refs ruled incomplete pass - his receiver wasn't open. 1st pick was Sam being greedy, especially that early - K9 was open for short gain underneath. 2nd pick he was hit passing by a well disguised and poorly picked up blitz. OLB? faked outside the D tackle, went inside "cya Zach Charbonnet, hi Sam!"
3rd int. he seemed greedy again - had K9 & other outlet open. 4th - who knows?
But Sam & Kubiak kept chucking it enough to almost overcome...
I think the Ram D plan exposed 2 Hawk O weaknesses (not caused by McVay's Sam Darnold voodoo doll). The weaknesses have been there, just not exploited as well by lesser teams:
1. O line inability to do straight-ahead power run block. (same as last year, the year before, the year before, x n...) Hawk run blocking uses a lot of trap blocks. This takes longer to develop than straight ahead single or combo blocks. That gives a 7 or 8-man-box D more time to diagnose and react. Lack of power run blocking make it less likely a stacked box gets burned by a quick power combo block where all of a sudden K9/Charbonnet blows past the box, 1 on 1 with only a safety. It also allows D's to better disguise and in Hawks case, overplay the pass while still containing talented RBs. Rams run traps too, my unscientific eyeballs say Rams seem quicker to develop.
2. Lack of consistent quality receivers other than JSN. It's easier to key on JSN if the other receivers are unlikely to burn the D. Acquiring Shaheed is the acknowledgement of this. Hopefully QB-receiver chemistry will be as good as w/JSN well before playing Rams in Dec.
Some of what I don't understand is why many/most? of Hawk pass plays seemed to be side routes. K9 was center short as a safety valve (mostly unused). There seemed to be an opportunity fake side route and curl > 1 receiver to the middle low-high. Earlier in this thread, someone commented Hawk pass routes all seemed slow to develop, giving Sam few early targets if protection broke down - I agree.
Barring key injuries, today's game makes me optimistic for the rest of the season, especially Hawks/Rams II.
Overall, Sam did better today than in the Rams Vikes playoff where he was sacked for -80 yds.
I trust the ability of Hawk staff to analyze and improve game plans. I think players are motivated and the closeness of today's loss is a team incentive to do what it takes to get to the next level = beat Rams/win division, hopefully this season.
Good observations. The Rams did a good job game planning for our offense. They left that checkdown option to K9 open all day and Sam just didn't want to use it. Walker should have have 7-10 targets instead of 3. Three catches for 44 yards! There were more opportunities to exploit there.
My thoughts on the 21-19 loss to the Rams is that there was strong positives that the Seahawks had at all phases. The Rams are a very good team as proven by their record and statistics. Thus, as the Hawks played with them competitively down to the very last second, even after four interceptions and allowing the Rams a few explosive plays, shows me how competitive the Seattle Seahawks are and the potential they have for the rest of the season. GO HAWKS
I'll defend Sam on the 3rd pick. Broadcasters caught it as well Arroyo is young but he went to cut across into the middle of the field where Sam threw it and he then continued up field. There was no reason to throw a juke there. He simply didn't cut across as much as he should have
He would have cut across the face of the safety and it would have been a big gain that put us in scoring range. The other 3 were just bad. Shit happens. Also the ridiculous hold on JSN was about as bad a missed call as there could be. There was another WTF call in the first as well.
The defense was awesome. That is my takeaway from this game. Two early scores then nothing until the 4th quarter. And two of their scores were the result of turnovers. Great "D".
I'm not ready to condemn Sam Darnold. I don't know what he saw or what the Rams were doing to cause confusion. I'm convinced he will learn from this after viewing the tapes. The coaches will, too.
Now I'll relax in my rose colored glasses and see what everyone else thinks.
In a prior discussion, we were discussing the Rams (FTR's) use of 13 personnel, and what the Seahawks would do to counter. In the 4 games leading up to Sunday's match-up, the Rams were using it 38% of the time, with a 4.7 yards/play average. On Sunday they ran it 36% of the time, for a 2.7 yards/play average. And as expected, the Seahawks stayed with their big nickel package, and played it tough.
Taking what I've seen to this point in the season, I can easily see a Division Championship. The Ram's game notwithstanding, Darnold throws A LOT of dimes to a plethora of awesome recievers...and our Defense is AMAZING! Even after such an ugly loss, NO ONE wants to play the Seahawks.
With three or less interceptions a game we should STILL make the playoffs right? The stats (and a visibly dominant Defense) suggest that if Sam can keep interceptions down, to say two, we may beat the Rams next time. One QB Buster Keeton day does not a season make. If Sam has another day shooting himself (and the team) in the foot with such accuracy, perhaps the rookie QB (What's his name? Milroe?) could keep the interception rate under two per game?
tush push on third and one was the absolute worst call of the game
I've been trying to understand my feelings about this game for the better part of a day and I think I'm so conflicted because this is literally a Super Bowl winning team for everything but the QB. And I'm not sure that isn't even true of the QB although there is a lot of evidence building that it is the case. I felt this way going into the 2012 season too and was so mad that Peyton Manning didn't give the Hawks the time of day because I thought they'd win THAT YEAR with him (instead of beating him up so bad the following year!).
For the last 8-9 years, every loss felt like it was somewhat inevitable because there were too many holes on the roster - they were (almost) always good but rarely ever great. I'd assume they'd win, rationalize away losses, but at the end of the year always look back and realize they just weren't good enough, all across the lineup. However, I think this is a championship caliber team for the next few years. I was hoping we had the QB to match because that seems to be a pretty important position! But, I'm not sure he is. But I'm also not sure he isn't. Conlict!!
Had to take the night off and recover from the game. As many noted, the defenses was great and LA punter had a dream putter at the end of the game.
Darnold had a very bad game, BUT what I’m left with is how KK wouldn’t adjust the game plan to include more receivers then JSN and Barner as the primary targets, it seem so forced to JSN. Give Darnold some easy targets with Arroyo, Kupp and Shaheed but they all seem to me as number 2 or 3 target (OK one deep ball to Shaheed and they don’t have the timing togather yet). KK could have cleared the mid middle with JSN and Barner and it would be wide open. I like KK, but he and Darnold are joined at the hip for this season and when one has a bad game the other needs to help!
The player who got a holding penalty and negated K9’s touchdown did more to lose the game than Darnold, IMHO, of course!
For me, about the worst result from this loss is now we’re going to have to hear from all the ‘experts’ about how Sam can’t take the pressure of winning in the ‘big’ games. For most of the season these bloviators haven’t even noticed the hawks, then, in the last two weeks they've discovered’ ‘that Seattle team is legit’. And now they insinuate that Sam can’t win the big one. These guys are like a pack of tourists, running from one side of the boat to the other, all wanting to be the first to shout their wisdom.
The fact is, the hawks played a very good team with a very good defense … And still came within two points of winning! It’s all about the optics, none of them seem to be looking at the numbers. The guy threw four interceptions, what other team/QB can do that and still have more time of possession, more yards and come so close to winning? This is a damn good team, they are a danger to any other team who has to play them. I’m sure the hawks will play with fire in the belly from here on out.
Unfortunately, whether on the Seahawks or the Rams, SD is now in the Alex Smith tier. First round pick shoved into playing without development. Has now developed, but the first few years of playing will forever be the narrative.
Yours is why I come to the Comments Paul. Solid observations/projections. 1st read. Thanx!
that's high praise JJ. You'll notice that most of what I have to say is based on emotion not tech analysis, so it's really just an old man's opinion. But the old dog can learn new tricks; SSJ's deep knowledge of the data, the business side of the biz, and his projections based on facts are really helping me learn more about how X's 0's and $$$ shape a team, and a season. Really, all the comments from the regulars are great for me.
HooRah, Cuz. SSJ points out Brady went 7-2 after embarrassing himself, so that's hopeful. Repeat after me, Sam: "Enough of this sht".
The game matched the hype, two really good teams going toe to toe right until the end. It was Ali vs. Frazier in the Thrilla in Manila. Darnold had an horrific game and yet kept his composure to manufacture a last drive from his own 1 foot line that gave the Hawks a reasonable chance to win. Not the final result I wanted, of course, but a strangely encouraging loss.
Was that a foot? Thought it was 6". The tail of that damn ball nearly grazed the pylon, never seen anything like that in my life. Best punt in history and arguably what won them the game (despite the 4 int's). Another 5 yards forward and my money's on Myers for the win. Not to mention the limited set of plays you're going to run from the 1' line..or the 6" line...
Although I will say it was maddening to watch the slow development of that sequence of plays. Would have been much better to spike a couple of those immediately after getting the 1st down -- it's 4-downs all the way anyway. Maddening. Just one more positive play is all we needed and prob could have had two, with better clock mgmt
So interesting to see it come down to special teams - while ours is arguably the better of the two.
Also exciting to see how scared they are of Shaheed, even with his fumble last week. Every punt away from him & every kick off a touch back.
“…the Seahawks may have only lost this game because Rams punter Ethan Evans had the kick of his life…” Heck, it was the best punt of *my* life of watching football for nearly 60 years.
Let me see. Our defense outplayed their offense. Our offense outplayed their defense (when they weren't giving them the ball). Our special teams played really well again. And we lost anyway, due to our QB's generosity. I'm disappointed, but strangely heartened. I think we're the better team, that just missed proving that. I mean, 4 turnovers and you lost by a few yards? In a weird way, that's impressive. But, perhaps I've just got my rose colored glasses on.
I am MUCH more concerned that two-thirds of our interior line is now injured. Hopefully Grey's injury isn't too significant.
Our defense is legit. The Seahawks showed that they are the better team as much after the game as during it. The defense vehemently supported Sam. The players refusing to lose faith, and staying tight is what good teams do. That will continue to show on the field, as well as off.
I think they'll argue the reverse, that they were the....
- better offense bc got into the end zone, instead of long drives for a FG
- better defense bc of the int's, was their entire intent in baiting us into the passing game
- better special teams bc of that punt
Yeah but, FTR's!
Seriously though, they won they game so they'll always have the better argument. I was just impressed with our our defense handled them, especially the last 3 quarters. And our offense moved the ball.....that wasn't an issue, especially in the 2nd half. Just the damn picks. I came away thinking we were the better team that beat itself.
I agree with you and all the stats other than the turnovers agree too. In all three of our losses I felt we were the better team.
I guess if we're either winning big, or losing close ones, we must be a solid team. For the past 5 years it's been either winning close ones, or losing in blow-outs. So, I'll take the 7-3 and in every game until the end.
Probably a combination of the two opposing ideas. 😂
I was happy to see the Hawks play the game to the last second. I had my concerns about their ability to do that the last few weeks. Overall, we were the better team IMO. The football gods just had it in for us today.
I don't "like" a loss. But this is the best worst game I can remember. First Sam:
Sam might have had 5 picks if the Ram hadn't hit his hand and refs ruled incomplete pass - his receiver wasn't open. 1st pick was Sam being greedy, especially that early - K9 was open for short gain underneath. 2nd pick he was hit passing by a well disguised and poorly picked up blitz. OLB? faked outside the D tackle, went inside "cya Zach Charbonnet, hi Sam!"
3rd int. he seemed greedy again - had K9 & other outlet open. 4th - who knows?
But Sam & Kubiak kept chucking it enough to almost overcome...
I think the Ram D plan exposed 2 Hawk O weaknesses (not caused by McVay's Sam Darnold voodoo doll). The weaknesses have been there, just not exploited as well by lesser teams:
1. O line inability to do straight-ahead power run block. (same as last year, the year before, the year before, x n...) Hawk run blocking uses a lot of trap blocks. This takes longer to develop than straight ahead single or combo blocks. That gives a 7 or 8-man-box D more time to diagnose and react. Lack of power run blocking make it less likely a stacked box gets burned by a quick power combo block where all of a sudden K9/Charbonnet blows past the box, 1 on 1 with only a safety. It also allows D's to better disguise and in Hawks case, overplay the pass while still containing talented RBs. Rams run traps too, my unscientific eyeballs say Rams seem quicker to develop.
2. Lack of consistent quality receivers other than JSN. It's easier to key on JSN if the other receivers are unlikely to burn the D. Acquiring Shaheed is the acknowledgement of this. Hopefully QB-receiver chemistry will be as good as w/JSN well before playing Rams in Dec.
Some of what I don't understand is why many/most? of Hawk pass plays seemed to be side routes. K9 was center short as a safety valve (mostly unused). There seemed to be an opportunity fake side route and curl > 1 receiver to the middle low-high. Earlier in this thread, someone commented Hawk pass routes all seemed slow to develop, giving Sam few early targets if protection broke down - I agree.
Barring key injuries, today's game makes me optimistic for the rest of the season, especially Hawks/Rams II.
Overall, Sam did better today than in the Rams Vikes playoff where he was sacked for -80 yds.
I trust the ability of Hawk staff to analyze and improve game plans. I think players are motivated and the closeness of today's loss is a team incentive to do what it takes to get to the next level = beat Rams/win division, hopefully this season.
That's not what I would have said pre-season!
Good observations. The Rams did a good job game planning for our offense. They left that checkdown option to K9 open all day and Sam just didn't want to use it. Walker should have have 7-10 targets instead of 3. Three catches for 44 yards! There were more opportunities to exploit there.
My thoughts on the 21-19 loss to the Rams is that there was strong positives that the Seahawks had at all phases. The Rams are a very good team as proven by their record and statistics. Thus, as the Hawks played with them competitively down to the very last second, even after four interceptions and allowing the Rams a few explosive plays, shows me how competitive the Seattle Seahawks are and the potential they have for the rest of the season. GO HAWKS
10th game. Year 2. Against a set of 6 year veteran Super Bowl winners.
I'll defend Sam on the 3rd pick. Broadcasters caught it as well Arroyo is young but he went to cut across into the middle of the field where Sam threw it and he then continued up field. There was no reason to throw a juke there. He simply didn't cut across as much as he should have
He would have cut across the face of the safety and it would have been a big gain that put us in scoring range. The other 3 were just bad. Shit happens. Also the ridiculous hold on JSN was about as bad a missed call as there could be. There was another WTF call in the first as well.
It was a DK Metcalf route Arroyo ran.
Greg Olsen made this point. Greg does know something about how to play TE.
Hope he's not watching last year's DK routes...
The defense was awesome. That is my takeaway from this game. Two early scores then nothing until the 4th quarter. And two of their scores were the result of turnovers. Great "D".
I'm not ready to condemn Sam Darnold. I don't know what he saw or what the Rams were doing to cause confusion. I'm convinced he will learn from this after viewing the tapes. The coaches will, too.
Now I'll relax in my rose colored glasses and see what everyone else thinks.