The same people who say RB's don't matter are the same ones who will now clamour to say, thanks to our esteemed author, that Walker holds too much value for the next 4 years to trade for a gambling chip late first rd pick. They will probably even use analytics to prove that he actually holds early first rd value if not more because 1) not only is he a rookie but a young one at that with only 3 years in college, 2) we effectively have 4 years of cost controlled play on a guy that in another era would have been a top 15 pick and 3) we can all be assured the only way Penny is on our roster next year is if he has a season worthy of being Walker's backup and he agrees to a pay freeze for a couple years.
78% of Seaside Joe fans wouldn't trade Kenneth Walker III for a 2023 first round pick.
I don't think we are necessarily representative of "Seahawks Fans" even though we are probably all Seahawks fans. Anyone who isn't reading Seaside Joe for the first time today has been conditioned to support the Walker pick by your well-reasoned arguments about the true value of elite RBs and the cost of acquiring one, as well as several articles highlighting the dopeness of Walker's pre-NFL career. I was already convinced pre-draft that taking Hall or Walker in round 2 was fair value and at a position of need for the Hawks.
I'm a believer and voted with the majority, but it would be interesting to see how different the results of this survey would be if posted at Field Gulls rather than here.
I hope you don't take that comment as criticism or a suggestion that the the poll results aren't meaningful. I would not have voted the way I did without having been a seaside joe reader. That fact that you can challenge my viewpoint and often times change it completely is one of the things that keeps me coming back everyday.
Clearly you've still got your work cut out for you convincing the Seahawks faithful not to draft a 1rst round center next year.
I agree that football is entertainment. For me, so is reading articles like yours and draft coverage and watching the draft. It's all entertainment. Essentially, a bottomless rabbit hole. I don't venture in very far because I don't have time and am not interested enough. I don't consider myself all that well educated and would love to know more. I'd love it if someone could explain to me in plain English the various coverages, offensive schemes and the like. When I've tried to research such things on youtube, there's way too much jargon and, with it, an assumption of a base level of knowledge that I (and most fans, those of us who haven't played the game) just don't have.
Didn't answer your poll because I didn't feel I had enough information to make educated guesses. Beyond Cross, it's hard to say who will get the most snaps. Trading Walker for a late first rounder? Depends entirely on how well he plays this year. It's hard to not get excited about him based on what we know already but the real proof happens on the field. I get that it's just an exercise. I guess I'm not that into making predictions. Not unless I feel like I have some insight, some ability to share something that might be enlightening to someone else. Not to just hear myself speak. So if my opinions are likely no more insightful than another casual fan's, I see no point in sharing.
I listened to a PFF podcast and one of the co-hosts said he wasn’t on board with RBs Don’t Matter and that there was a lot of nuance there. I nearly fell out of my chair. He almost kinda ruined it by giving most RB success credit to the OLine...that peer pressure doing its thing.
I have been a Penny backer all the way to the start of last season, but when he was non existent for the first half I thought crap. I think Kenneth Walker does have the burst and want to, to be elite. Yes the amount of times he is confronted by a defender in the backfield matters. Often times if they can make that man miss they are off to a positive gain. The reason being there is now a hole to run through, Walker looks to have the shake to do that even more so than Penny.
As far as PFF goes I can't listen to them, their is no outside the box thinking
I've always said that the argument will come full circle and eventually all of these people will flip! It's inevitable, in my opinion. They'll follow what the fans tell them to do, especially since they just do what gets likes and clicks.
On that topic of coming full circle, I wonder if the despised running game will come roaring back this season. Despite the fact that the Niners went deep in the playoff with a strong running game and the Packers as well, the running game is so “Pete Carroll”, old, unwilling to adapt, the game has changed, and etc. It’s not trendy or well-liked to talk about running the ball.
I’m saying that from someone who doesn’t know much about the intricacies of defense coverages and offensive formations but who simply just watch the game enough to see the basic concepts of the game don’t change much and ideas just get recycled. The two-high safety proliferation now will make it more enticing to run the ball vs. the single high safety defense that Carroll and his protégés ran this past decade in the league.
I like the Cross pick a lot, but quite a bit of my liking was somewhat like a presidential election where I voted against. I really didn't want a QB, and was relieved the Hawks organization direction wasn't a QB there.
Now I like Willis. I don't think he's going to be a star, but there's some nice potential. And the only one I'd entertain not having for Willis would be Lucas. And even then I'd have to watch tape on both and break it down quite a bit.
One of my favorite articles yet! Unless he’s injured (and as you pointed out, any player can be), I predict that KW3 will be a sensation and lead the team in jersey sales by the year’s end. My excitement level for the team in 2022 is low but without that selection it’d be almost nonexistent. We need more guys who are really, really good at football.
I read the beginning of this aloud to my wife. We bailed on Ozark, Stranger Things, True Detective and Walking Dead at some point in their second/third seasons. Against popular opinion I even felt Schitt’s Creek peaked season one. The US Office didn’t get better as seasons went on. The list of shows that do is probably quite short; and the list of dramatic series even shorter. Trying to even think of one.
Schitt's Creek is like a marketing scam of a sitcom. "Put these people in it, give it awards, people will be forced to think it's good." I say that as someone who wasn't able to get through the first season, so please to all who read this comment and take offense, I fully admit a lack of awareness and interest in following the show beyond that.
Most feel it got better as it went on. I'm not one of those people. It went from a funny Arrested Development type comedy with some sweet moments in the first season to a sweet sappy show with some funny moments in the later ones. If you didn't care for Season 1, I doubt you'd have warmed up to it later.
Speaking of Arrested Development, I can't think of a show's return I found more disappointing.
Getting to your point about entertaining and running backs, the most memorable (positive memories) Seahawks play of all time…BeastQuake.
The same people who say RB's don't matter are the same ones who will now clamour to say, thanks to our esteemed author, that Walker holds too much value for the next 4 years to trade for a gambling chip late first rd pick. They will probably even use analytics to prove that he actually holds early first rd value if not more because 1) not only is he a rookie but a young one at that with only 3 years in college, 2) we effectively have 4 years of cost controlled play on a guy that in another era would have been a top 15 pick and 3) we can all be assured the only way Penny is on our roster next year is if he has a season worthy of being Walker's backup and he agrees to a pay freeze for a couple years.
78% of Seaside Joe fans wouldn't trade Kenneth Walker III for a 2023 first round pick.
I don't think we are necessarily representative of "Seahawks Fans" even though we are probably all Seahawks fans. Anyone who isn't reading Seaside Joe for the first time today has been conditioned to support the Walker pick by your well-reasoned arguments about the true value of elite RBs and the cost of acquiring one, as well as several articles highlighting the dopeness of Walker's pre-NFL career. I was already convinced pre-draft that taking Hall or Walker in round 2 was fair value and at a position of need for the Hawks.
I'm a believer and voted with the majority, but it would be interesting to see how different the results of this survey would be if posted at Field Gulls rather than here.
The majority of the votes, if not half, probably came thanks to a retweet by Field Gulls.
I hope you don't take that comment as criticism or a suggestion that the the poll results aren't meaningful. I would not have voted the way I did without having been a seaside joe reader. That fact that you can challenge my viewpoint and often times change it completely is one of the things that keeps me coming back everyday.
Clearly you've still got your work cut out for you convincing the Seahawks faithful not to draft a 1rst round center next year.
I agree that football is entertainment. For me, so is reading articles like yours and draft coverage and watching the draft. It's all entertainment. Essentially, a bottomless rabbit hole. I don't venture in very far because I don't have time and am not interested enough. I don't consider myself all that well educated and would love to know more. I'd love it if someone could explain to me in plain English the various coverages, offensive schemes and the like. When I've tried to research such things on youtube, there's way too much jargon and, with it, an assumption of a base level of knowledge that I (and most fans, those of us who haven't played the game) just don't have.
Didn't answer your poll because I didn't feel I had enough information to make educated guesses. Beyond Cross, it's hard to say who will get the most snaps. Trading Walker for a late first rounder? Depends entirely on how well he plays this year. It's hard to not get excited about him based on what we know already but the real proof happens on the field. I get that it's just an exercise. I guess I'm not that into making predictions. Not unless I feel like I have some insight, some ability to share something that might be enlightening to someone else. Not to just hear myself speak. So if my opinions are likely no more insightful than another casual fan's, I see no point in sharing.
You're a human being, that makes you educated enough! I don't think the other people voting are college coaches or former NFL players.
"Trading Walker for a late first rounder? Depends entirely on how well he plays this year."
The way I read this is if we were to trade him right now, without an NFL snap under his belt, to the Chiefs or so forth.
"I'd love it if someone could explain to me in plain English the various coverages, offensive schemes and the like. "
Not sure of a YouTube channel, but "Take Your Eye off the Ball" is a fantastic book. I played K-12 and the NFL game is just so different from North Carolina high school football in 1987 that very little translates from having played my whole childhood. The pro game can be ridiculously complex. Though while I'm thinking about it, https://theathletic.com/1145757/2019/10/29/how-to-watch-football-like-an-expert-from-the-comfort-of-your-couch/?source=twitterads&ad_id=37083495&twclid=2-3yyoilwz7cqqm3dq3ynccucgm <-This is a free Athletic article that has some really good info. And speaking of opinions, in my opinion your opinion is as valuable as anyone here's opinion!
Thank you. I will read the article and look for the book.
Just downloaded the book. Has a forward by Pete Carroll. Cool! Look forward to reading it. Thanks so much.
Outstanding book. Takes a deep dive in plain English—a rarity if there ever was one.
I listened to a PFF podcast and one of the co-hosts said he wasn’t on board with RBs Don’t Matter and that there was a lot of nuance there. I nearly fell out of my chair. He almost kinda ruined it by giving most RB success credit to the OLine...that peer pressure doing its thing.
I have been a Penny backer all the way to the start of last season, but when he was non existent for the first half I thought crap. I think Kenneth Walker does have the burst and want to, to be elite. Yes the amount of times he is confronted by a defender in the backfield matters. Often times if they can make that man miss they are off to a positive gain. The reason being there is now a hole to run through, Walker looks to have the shake to do that even more so than Penny.
As far as PFF goes I can't listen to them, their is no outside the box thinking
PFF could stand for: Pressure Football Fans
I've always said that the argument will come full circle and eventually all of these people will flip! It's inevitable, in my opinion. They'll follow what the fans tell them to do, especially since they just do what gets likes and clicks.
On that topic of coming full circle, I wonder if the despised running game will come roaring back this season. Despite the fact that the Niners went deep in the playoff with a strong running game and the Packers as well, the running game is so “Pete Carroll”, old, unwilling to adapt, the game has changed, and etc. It’s not trendy or well-liked to talk about running the ball.
I’m saying that from someone who doesn’t know much about the intricacies of defense coverages and offensive formations but who simply just watch the game enough to see the basic concepts of the game don’t change much and ideas just get recycled. The two-high safety proliferation now will make it more enticing to run the ball vs. the single high safety defense that Carroll and his protégés ran this past decade in the league.
I like the Cross pick a lot, but quite a bit of my liking was somewhat like a presidential election where I voted against. I really didn't want a QB, and was relieved the Hawks organization direction wasn't a QB there.
Now I like Willis. I don't think he's going to be a star, but there's some nice potential. And the only one I'd entertain not having for Willis would be Lucas. And even then I'd have to watch tape on both and break it down quite a bit.
One of my favorite articles yet! Unless he’s injured (and as you pointed out, any player can be), I predict that KW3 will be a sensation and lead the team in jersey sales by the year’s end. My excitement level for the team in 2022 is low but without that selection it’d be almost nonexistent. We need more guys who are really, really good at football.
I read the beginning of this aloud to my wife. We bailed on Ozark, Stranger Things, True Detective and Walking Dead at some point in their second/third seasons. Against popular opinion I even felt Schitt’s Creek peaked season one. The US Office didn’t get better as seasons went on. The list of shows that do is probably quite short; and the list of dramatic series even shorter. Trying to even think of one.
Schitt's Creek is like a marketing scam of a sitcom. "Put these people in it, give it awards, people will be forced to think it's good." I say that as someone who wasn't able to get through the first season, so please to all who read this comment and take offense, I fully admit a lack of awareness and interest in following the show beyond that.
Most feel it got better as it went on. I'm not one of those people. It went from a funny Arrested Development type comedy with some sweet moments in the first season to a sweet sappy show with some funny moments in the later ones. If you didn't care for Season 1, I doubt you'd have warmed up to it later.
Speaking of Arrested Development, I can't think of a show's return I found more disappointing.