Fascinating to watch JS build this roster slowly and methodically. He has added just enough depth that we’re real close to the BPA ideal in this draft. One vet CB and maybe an edge and he’s there. Kinda brilliant.
Dang…JS is a busy boy today. He’s re-signed Pili and Brady Russell, and also signed ex Colts safety Rodney Thomas II and ex Packers RB Emanuel Wilson. The roster is coming together.
I also saw Jonathon Hankins was interviewed on Seattle Sports. He said he’s retiring (no surprise) but the good news he dropped is that he fully expects Demarcus Lawrence to play this year. Woohoo!
Wilson is a real bruiser with a motor. But how about this for past 3 years: 242 carries for just over 1000 yards and 7 TDs; 30 receptions on 36 targets; and 1 fumble and none lost!
There is some depth in the draft at corner, next to no speed at Edge and lots of short-armed rushers. I feel like there are frequently good late round or undrafted rookie safeties. At 32, any player we draft will be called a reach but won't be available at 64, unless somebody falls--there are a few DT that might fall. I don't want to sign any players that will cost a comp pick. My favourite move would be trade 32 for Maxx Crosby, straight up. After that, I would draft BPA outside of QB, which I think will be DT or CB. I might reach for Malachi Lawrence, but he might be there at 64.
It's a great looking roster for day two of the League year! And as we should all have learned, are positioned perfectly for the second wave of Free Agency and onto the draft. JS and MM and BF can target their desired personalities and skills, knowing there is not just a starting roster but some depth already in place. Zero needs, focus on BPA. (Yes a CB, RB, Edge would be nice, but it's not Needed).
RB: We have depth galore. We have no #1 and our #2 won’t arrive until the 2nd act. Bottom heavy.
DB: Seriously lacking in depth, but with Witherspoon, Jobe, Emmanwori, Love, and Okada, we have excellent, young talent. Top heavy.
DL + Edge: Everyone is here, except Mafe. But Lawrence, Reed, and Williams are older vets, and Nwosu has a burdensome contract. Veteran heavy.
So, the top three needs are very different.
My feeling is that skilled RBs could be available via trade. DB depth can be handled via a late pick, UFDAs, waiver wires, or inexpensive trades.
That leaves the sharp end of the draft for DL & Edge. With Pili and Mills, JS has a succession plan in place for the interior. I expect that JS has some clear targets at Edge for this draft, as well as strategies to get one regardless of how the first 31 picks fall. May the first 31 teams over draft bad QBs.
Regarding timing, the draft is April 23-25. I expect JS to be very patient for RB. Expect some teams to get rookie RB hype in preseason, pushing some undervalued veterans down the depth chart. In other words, don’t panic. We have enough depth to build a team. The high value RB candidates won’t present themselves until late summer.
Now our O-Line is finding their Game, we don't need the elite skills of Walker and Charb. Of course it would be great, but the NEED for them to pry open holes has diminished. Keeping that O-Line healthy and staffed will be a yearly priority JS will address in the Draft.
Yeah, the OL is much improved and will hopefully get better with more games shoulder to shoulder. But even in the Super Bowl, the line got blown up a number of times and Walker got big results single-handedly. The guy had only three fumbles out of 821 carries and 133 receptions in his career as a Seahawk.
Hopefully, we can get 90% of the talent for less than 50% of the pay.
And we don’t know what kind of RB Fleury wants yet. Does he prefer a battering ram? Does he want a shifty receiving back, like CMC? We will see how this plays out…
Can I make a suggestion. Can we do this every year? The list you created here, as I was reading, was almost surprising. It seems that once the position groups are laid out individually, the holes in the roster and what JS is most likely thinking, comes into very clear view.
In the past, John has found veterans to fill those holes prior to the draft. This has allowed him to go BPA. I suspect this will continue like you said Ken. My issue with edge I think might beat out running back at this point. I think if needed we could go Holani, McIntosh, and another vet that will be added or currently on the Ready squad.
Offense: They need a veteran RB, especially given that the draft is apparently especially week at the position. The rest of the offense is good to go.
Defense:
* MM seems to like a heavy rotation up front, so there’s a need to replace Mafe with someone who can play 50% of defensive snaps
* Not much depth at CB. Maybe the clearest draft need…
* …except, can Okada really take Bryant’s place? He played only ST in the Super Bowl. Mike Dugar says that Okada is best suited to play the same role as Julian Love. Drafting a safety high wouldn’t be a big surprise.
Trivia Question: Who led the Seahawks in defensive snap counts in the Super Bowl?
Bryant, Love, Jones, and Spoon played 100% of defensive snap counts (71). If you want a tiebreaker, Love also had 2 ST snaps (Jones had 1), so he led all defensive players with 73 total snaps.
Emmanwori missed a snap or he would have been at 100% too. Reed, Nwosu, Murphy, Lawrence, Woolen, Williams and Jobe had over 50% and less than 90%. Williams led all defensive lineman with 50 (70%).
I agree with SSJ and Danno roster comment. I would add a kind of game about when the veteran RB is added and if there a surprise big move before training camp.
Update: We’re up to 72 players now with 5 signed today. TE/FB Russell, DT B Pili, Safety Thomas, RB Wilson, and someone familiar, D Bell also a safety ST player from this past season.
I was actually doing this exercise last night, so thank you for doing a better job of it! I agree with you on the biggest holes and I think the Seahawks met with just about every available CB at the combine. It may not be a deep draft class, but id does have very good depth at CB and good depth at edge. I think the replacements for Woolen and Mafe could lie in rounds 1, 2 or 3. I think an RB replacement could lie in rounds 2 or 3. Okada could be the replacement for Bryant, and Findlay could be the replacement for Okada. It wouldn’t surprise me to see D’Anthony Bell back in camp along with a safety in round 6 or UDFA. Pili should get signed to be there if J Reed can’t give us the snaps he did last year. Another old vet edge might be needed in addition to a day one or two edge in the draft. I expect Ivey and number 57 to be given another chance to see where their game is at this year. Jacardia Wright and Vellus will be competing at RB with an old vet and day two draft pic. Anyway, that’s what I came up with last night.
Danno, I was about to comment, read yours and thought, well, you probably said it better than I would have. I also still think that we need OL, as Anthony Bradford still has too many “whiffs” that result in instant pressure on Sam, or losses on running plays. My other thought is that finding a RB with the same dynamic character as K-9 is going to be a challenge, which is also why I think they need improved OL play to give Sam more time, and cleaner run blocking…..As I have said several times before, in JS I trust!
SSJ said it better than I could have, and I was thinking about this for hours yesterday. Consider this for the OL. - I was for replacing Bradford most of last year, but he did hang in there and they did get to the Super Bowl. He’s 24 and he will get better. He’s not ideal for a wide zone scheme due to his lack of mobility getting to the second level and downfield. I think rather than add anyone, they open up at RG with Bradford as the starter but allow Cabeldue, Richmond and Haynes (if he’s there) to compete for the job. Can one of them improve more than Bradford? I think Haynes may be traded for a late day 3 draft pick if they can find a taker. Then maybe they find an IOL draft pick with that pick. I will go with whatever JS decides as well. Go hawks!
If you could get 2 starters from this draft, what positions would you target? I don't think Bradford should be off the table for upgrading I'm just not seeing a definite upgrade out there...there's a bunch of 'maybe he's an upgrade over AB' type of guards. I don't know how to for sure upgrade him through the draft. I can see a way to add competition to several groups but starters...mmm maybe.
The easiest upgrade is CB if they stick at 32. They might get Hood from TN, or Cisse from SC, at 64 they could get Edge Gabe Jacas. If they were to get an OT who can play RG there’s Gennings Dunker from Iowa. At 64. I like RB Washington at 96, but he probably won’t last to 96. I think he can be starting caliber and a good pick if he is still there.
I didn’t forget about Holani. Just botched it. I think Humphrey at the Ravens is still working on his release. I’m pulling for him! He wants to be part of next year’s parade so badly!
I also like Washington as a day 2 RB in the draft. I know someone poo-poo’d it when I mentioned him before, but he’s 225 lbs, ran a 4.33 forty with a 1.5 ten yard split. He looks like a Chris Carson with more speed. If he’s there in round 3, which may be unlikely, I’d be really pleased with that pick.
Coleman is 5'8", 220. Ran a 4.50 at the combine, 22 reps on the bench, but we knew he was strong. Short arms, hands at 9-1/8. I don't think he did any of the other drills, and hadn't thought he ran the 40 until I looked for numbers. Having looked at highlights of New Guy from Green Bay whose name I will eventually commit to memory, I'm less inclined to think Coleman makes sense. Ah, well.
I'm probably the poop-poo-er with Washington. I've been thinking about this for a minute, and here's where I've landed. Ten fumbles in two seasons is a lot. We're going to expect any RB we draft to carry the ball something like 15 times a game. They have to have immediate impact, especially the first 2/3 of the season before Charbonnet is back. (Presuming none of our depth pieces are better than we now know.) I don't know -- by which mean, genuinely, that I don't know -- if coaching can fix that kind of ball handling issue between OTAs and the regular season, especially when one factors in the skill with which NFL defensive players attack players with just this reputation. His numbers are enticing. If the coaching staff thinks they can make it work, terrific. I'm just not sanguine about the prospect.
I don't yet know anything about the guy we signed today. Holani is a well-rounded back, but I don't think of him as being a short-yardage pounder. That's not really what Washington would be for, either. Maybe new guy? But I keep plumping for Coleman, not because he and I attended the same university (hey, I went to class, most of the time), but because he's a sure-handed pounder who can block (at 5' 8") and catch the ball. He seems like a good complementary piece. Now, I just looked and PFF has Washington at 70 and Coleman at 93. Another site has Coleman as the #2 RB, ahead of Jadarian Price, which has to be a minority view at this point.
I’m no expert. I just like the runs I’ve seen from Washington. I don’t know if he can be taught to hold onto the ball, but I’m sure we have an excellent run coaching staff. You say “If the coaching staff thinks they can make it work, terrific. I'm just not sanguine about the prospect.” And I’m 100% behind going with what the team decides to do. I just think they need to go with someone who can be a difference maker. K9 was a difference maker. Charbs showed signs of being a difference maker. They are hoping maybe someone shines out of the 5 guys they currently have. If they take Coleman or Washington or Emmet Johnson, I’ll get behind it. I just think Washington looks like he can be an explosive runner.
I felt like we had to keep either Shaheed or Walker to retain the threat of explosive plays. Either the team knew things about Walker's durability, or he felt ill-used, or JS simply wouldn't break the budget for the MVP. We'll never know, unless he comes up lame next season and I hope he doesn't. This year's RB class is filled with desperate hope and nothing like a sure thing, after the first guy goes.
His only (big) issue is he had something like 10 fumbles, and that was against mere college players. Imagine against NFL players, who make a living out of knocking it free....
That's what I keep looking at...fumbles cost games. 10 fumbles could end up being 2 loses easily in the NFL. Can't have that...if the fumbles are decreasing over time and getting to a lower level then maybe you can overlook total numbers. Enter Emmett Johnson.
People can work on and be taught techniques for protecting the ball. He has some impressive runs against SEC competition. So it is the highest level of college players. I think if he’s there at 96 and they’ve picked up an edge and CB, it could be worth the risk. I don’t think any of the Notre Dame RBs get to 64. There are other RBs, the UW RB Coleman, but he’s doesn’t have the power or explosiveness of Washington.
Sorta like Chris Carson maybe? He fell all the way down to 7th rd and had 11 fumbles in his Seahawks career -- but 6 of those were in his first (maddening) year. Think his last yr he only had one?
So Carson got better at protecting the ball. So could Washington. Washington has the size and power, but has better speed and explosiveness. I still think he could be right if he’s there in the 3rd round.
If Bosa is available at a reasonable price and the medicals check out, adding him is a no brainer. Edge solved.
The only problem I see is at RB. ,a back up corner and replacing future HOF AB at RG. I have faith that JS will figure it out!
Fascinating to watch JS build this roster slowly and methodically. He has added just enough depth that we’re real close to the BPA ideal in this draft. One vet CB and maybe an edge and he’s there. Kinda brilliant.
Dang…JS is a busy boy today. He’s re-signed Pili and Brady Russell, and also signed ex Colts safety Rodney Thomas II and ex Packers RB Emanuel Wilson. The roster is coming together.
I also saw Jonathon Hankins was interviewed on Seattle Sports. He said he’s retiring (no surprise) but the good news he dropped is that he fully expects Demarcus Lawrence to play this year. Woohoo!
Wilson is a real bruiser with a motor. But how about this for past 3 years: 242 carries for just over 1000 yards and 7 TDs; 30 receptions on 36 targets; and 1 fumble and none lost!
I like it. This is an easy no risk addition to the roster. He seems more like Charbonnet insurance than K9 replacement, however.
Hmm. Ok then let's go get Maxx.
TRADE: Crosby for 2026 R1, 2027 R2, and Chenna Nwosu.
2026 Draft class: R2: RB Mike Washington Jr. R3: CBs Tacario Davis/Devin Moore R6: WR
De'Zhaun Stribling
Doesn't leave much cap space to sign another safety/OG, but them's the breaks
There is some depth in the draft at corner, next to no speed at Edge and lots of short-armed rushers. I feel like there are frequently good late round or undrafted rookie safeties. At 32, any player we draft will be called a reach but won't be available at 64, unless somebody falls--there are a few DT that might fall. I don't want to sign any players that will cost a comp pick. My favourite move would be trade 32 for Maxx Crosby, straight up. After that, I would draft BPA outside of QB, which I think will be DT or CB. I might reach for Malachi Lawrence, but he might be there at 64.
It's a great looking roster for day two of the League year! And as we should all have learned, are positioned perfectly for the second wave of Free Agency and onto the draft. JS and MM and BF can target their desired personalities and skills, knowing there is not just a starting roster but some depth already in place. Zero needs, focus on BPA. (Yes a CB, RB, Edge would be nice, but it's not Needed).
Right Guard? It seems to often Anthony B is looking for somebody to block and those false start penalties are ugh. Upgrade?
No to Bosa. Hello no to Bosa.
Looking at the roster in detail, I see this:
RB: We have depth galore. We have no #1 and our #2 won’t arrive until the 2nd act. Bottom heavy.
DB: Seriously lacking in depth, but with Witherspoon, Jobe, Emmanwori, Love, and Okada, we have excellent, young talent. Top heavy.
DL + Edge: Everyone is here, except Mafe. But Lawrence, Reed, and Williams are older vets, and Nwosu has a burdensome contract. Veteran heavy.
So, the top three needs are very different.
My feeling is that skilled RBs could be available via trade. DB depth can be handled via a late pick, UFDAs, waiver wires, or inexpensive trades.
That leaves the sharp end of the draft for DL & Edge. With Pili and Mills, JS has a succession plan in place for the interior. I expect that JS has some clear targets at Edge for this draft, as well as strategies to get one regardless of how the first 31 picks fall. May the first 31 teams over draft bad QBs.
Regarding timing, the draft is April 23-25. I expect JS to be very patient for RB. Expect some teams to get rookie RB hype in preseason, pushing some undervalued veterans down the depth chart. In other words, don’t panic. We have enough depth to build a team. The high value RB candidates won’t present themselves until late summer.
Now our O-Line is finding their Game, we don't need the elite skills of Walker and Charb. Of course it would be great, but the NEED for them to pry open holes has diminished. Keeping that O-Line healthy and staffed will be a yearly priority JS will address in the Draft.
Yeah, the OL is much improved and will hopefully get better with more games shoulder to shoulder. But even in the Super Bowl, the line got blown up a number of times and Walker got big results single-handedly. The guy had only three fumbles out of 821 carries and 133 receptions in his career as a Seahawk.
Hopefully, we can get 90% of the talent for less than 50% of the pay.
And we don’t know what kind of RB Fleury wants yet. Does he prefer a battering ram? Does he want a shifty receiving back, like CMC? We will see how this plays out…
Maybe have a scheme that aligns with the strengths of the individuals.
Can I make a suggestion. Can we do this every year? The list you created here, as I was reading, was almost surprising. It seems that once the position groups are laid out individually, the holes in the roster and what JS is most likely thinking, comes into very clear view.
In the past, John has found veterans to fill those holes prior to the draft. This has allowed him to go BPA. I suspect this will continue like you said Ken. My issue with edge I think might beat out running back at this point. I think if needed we could go Holani, McIntosh, and another vet that will be added or currently on the Ready squad.
Offense: They need a veteran RB, especially given that the draft is apparently especially week at the position. The rest of the offense is good to go.
Defense:
* MM seems to like a heavy rotation up front, so there’s a need to replace Mafe with someone who can play 50% of defensive snaps
* Not much depth at CB. Maybe the clearest draft need…
* …except, can Okada really take Bryant’s place? He played only ST in the Super Bowl. Mike Dugar says that Okada is best suited to play the same role as Julian Love. Drafting a safety high wouldn’t be a big surprise.
Trivia Question: Who led the Seahawks in defensive snap counts in the Super Bowl?
Spoon.
See my comment to Danno.
You must use A.I. Wow.
LOL! My father was a librarian. In our house, “let’s look it up” was a fun thing!
Trick trivia question...
My guess would be love, spoon, Jones or Emmanwori . I’ll go with Love.
Bryant, Love, Jones, and Spoon played 100% of defensive snap counts (71). If you want a tiebreaker, Love also had 2 ST snaps (Jones had 1), so he led all defensive players with 73 total snaps.
Emmanwori missed a snap or he would have been at 100% too. Reed, Nwosu, Murphy, Lawrence, Woolen, Williams and Jobe had over 50% and less than 90%. Williams led all defensive lineman with 50 (70%).
Jones wears the headset, so it’s harder to replace him ;)
I agree with SSJ and Danno roster comment. I would add a kind of game about when the veteran RB is added and if there a surprise big move before training camp.
Look for a veteran RB needing to rest and heal for a year.
Update: We’re up to 72 players now with 5 signed today. TE/FB Russell, DT B Pili, Safety Thomas, RB Wilson, and someone familiar, D Bell also a safety ST player from this past season.
I was actually doing this exercise last night, so thank you for doing a better job of it! I agree with you on the biggest holes and I think the Seahawks met with just about every available CB at the combine. It may not be a deep draft class, but id does have very good depth at CB and good depth at edge. I think the replacements for Woolen and Mafe could lie in rounds 1, 2 or 3. I think an RB replacement could lie in rounds 2 or 3. Okada could be the replacement for Bryant, and Findlay could be the replacement for Okada. It wouldn’t surprise me to see D’Anthony Bell back in camp along with a safety in round 6 or UDFA. Pili should get signed to be there if J Reed can’t give us the snaps he did last year. Another old vet edge might be needed in addition to a day one or two edge in the draft. I expect Ivey and number 57 to be given another chance to see where their game is at this year. Jacardia Wright and Vellus will be competing at RB with an old vet and day two draft pic. Anyway, that’s what I came up with last night.
Danno, I was about to comment, read yours and thought, well, you probably said it better than I would have. I also still think that we need OL, as Anthony Bradford still has too many “whiffs” that result in instant pressure on Sam, or losses on running plays. My other thought is that finding a RB with the same dynamic character as K-9 is going to be a challenge, which is also why I think they need improved OL play to give Sam more time, and cleaner run blocking…..As I have said several times before, in JS I trust!
SSJ said it better than I could have, and I was thinking about this for hours yesterday. Consider this for the OL. - I was for replacing Bradford most of last year, but he did hang in there and they did get to the Super Bowl. He’s 24 and he will get better. He’s not ideal for a wide zone scheme due to his lack of mobility getting to the second level and downfield. I think rather than add anyone, they open up at RG with Bradford as the starter but allow Cabeldue, Richmond and Haynes (if he’s there) to compete for the job. Can one of them improve more than Bradford? I think Haynes may be traded for a late day 3 draft pick if they can find a taker. Then maybe they find an IOL draft pick with that pick. I will go with whatever JS decides as well. Go hawks!
If you could get 2 starters from this draft, what positions would you target? I don't think Bradford should be off the table for upgrading I'm just not seeing a definite upgrade out there...there's a bunch of 'maybe he's an upgrade over AB' type of guards. I don't know how to for sure upgrade him through the draft. I can see a way to add competition to several groups but starters...mmm maybe.
The easiest upgrade is CB if they stick at 32. They might get Hood from TN, or Cisse from SC, at 64 they could get Edge Gabe Jacas. If they were to get an OT who can play RG there’s Gennings Dunker from Iowa. At 64. I like RB Washington at 96, but he probably won’t last to 96. I think he can be starting caliber and a good pick if he is still there.
I didn’t forget about Holani. Just botched it. I think Humphrey at the Ravens is still working on his release. I’m pulling for him! He wants to be part of next year’s parade so badly!
Cam Akers also still in the mix?
But his best days are behind him…
Yes, he’s on the roster, and they added Brady Russell this morning
I also like Washington as a day 2 RB in the draft. I know someone poo-poo’d it when I mentioned him before, but he’s 225 lbs, ran a 4.33 forty with a 1.5 ten yard split. He looks like a Chris Carson with more speed. If he’s there in round 3, which may be unlikely, I’d be really pleased with that pick.
What were Jonah Coleman's numbers at the combine? He may be there at 96 and he's a hell of an RB.
Coleman is 5'8", 220. Ran a 4.50 at the combine, 22 reps on the bench, but we knew he was strong. Short arms, hands at 9-1/8. I don't think he did any of the other drills, and hadn't thought he ran the 40 until I looked for numbers. Having looked at highlights of New Guy from Green Bay whose name I will eventually commit to memory, I'm less inclined to think Coleman makes sense. Ah, well.
I'm probably the poop-poo-er with Washington. I've been thinking about this for a minute, and here's where I've landed. Ten fumbles in two seasons is a lot. We're going to expect any RB we draft to carry the ball something like 15 times a game. They have to have immediate impact, especially the first 2/3 of the season before Charbonnet is back. (Presuming none of our depth pieces are better than we now know.) I don't know -- by which mean, genuinely, that I don't know -- if coaching can fix that kind of ball handling issue between OTAs and the regular season, especially when one factors in the skill with which NFL defensive players attack players with just this reputation. His numbers are enticing. If the coaching staff thinks they can make it work, terrific. I'm just not sanguine about the prospect.
I don't yet know anything about the guy we signed today. Holani is a well-rounded back, but I don't think of him as being a short-yardage pounder. That's not really what Washington would be for, either. Maybe new guy? But I keep plumping for Coleman, not because he and I attended the same university (hey, I went to class, most of the time), but because he's a sure-handed pounder who can block (at 5' 8") and catch the ball. He seems like a good complementary piece. Now, I just looked and PFF has Washington at 70 and Coleman at 93. Another site has Coleman as the #2 RB, ahead of Jadarian Price, which has to be a minority view at this point.
I’m no expert. I just like the runs I’ve seen from Washington. I don’t know if he can be taught to hold onto the ball, but I’m sure we have an excellent run coaching staff. You say “If the coaching staff thinks they can make it work, terrific. I'm just not sanguine about the prospect.” And I’m 100% behind going with what the team decides to do. I just think they need to go with someone who can be a difference maker. K9 was a difference maker. Charbs showed signs of being a difference maker. They are hoping maybe someone shines out of the 5 guys they currently have. If they take Coleman or Washington or Emmet Johnson, I’ll get behind it. I just think Washington looks like he can be an explosive runner.
I felt like we had to keep either Shaheed or Walker to retain the threat of explosive plays. Either the team knew things about Walker's durability, or he felt ill-used, or JS simply wouldn't break the budget for the MVP. We'll never know, unless he comes up lame next season and I hope he doesn't. This year's RB class is filled with desperate hope and nothing like a sure thing, after the first guy goes.
Washington has great highlights doesn't he...I just wonder if he can correct the fumbles fast enough.
We have outstanding coaches, and he is strong. No reason why he can’t learn to protect the ball.
His only (big) issue is he had something like 10 fumbles, and that was against mere college players. Imagine against NFL players, who make a living out of knocking it free....
That's what I keep looking at...fumbles cost games. 10 fumbles could end up being 2 loses easily in the NFL. Can't have that...if the fumbles are decreasing over time and getting to a lower level then maybe you can overlook total numbers. Enter Emmett Johnson.
People can work on and be taught techniques for protecting the ball. He has some impressive runs against SEC competition. So it is the highest level of college players. I think if he’s there at 96 and they’ve picked up an edge and CB, it could be worth the risk. I don’t think any of the Notre Dame RBs get to 64. There are other RBs, the UW RB Coleman, but he’s doesn’t have the power or explosiveness of Washington.
Coleman doesn't fumble. Coleman put up a lot of yards against Big Ten competition.
Sorta like Chris Carson maybe? He fell all the way down to 7th rd and had 11 fumbles in his Seahawks career -- but 6 of those were in his first (maddening) year. Think his last yr he only had one?
So Carson got better at protecting the ball. So could Washington. Washington has the size and power, but has better speed and explosiveness. I still think he could be right if he’s there in the 3rd round.