For a day in March, 2022, the Seahawks had Geno Smith, Russell Wilson, and Drew Lock. Where do their respective values currently stand? Seaside Joe 1998
Not these 2. I probably made the game harder to get right because I mentioned starters playing deep into that preseason game. These 2 names won't be on the tip of your tongue unless you specifically remember those touchdown plays, I'm guessing.
So Russ may be in trouble in Pittsburgh if the OL is as bad as it looked last week. Russ doesn’t have escape velocity in his legs any more and that is where Fields might have an advantage despite Russ being a far superior passer.
Star QBs are rare and ridiculously expensive. The best QBs entering the draft are extremely expensive and risky. QBs that teams gave up on are dirt cheap, and are even less likely to succeed, but might also have great college tape, and were probably let go from a bad team that had questionable coaching, a poor O-line, and no Pro Bowl targets.
We were lucky to get Russ at the draft position we did and to have him cheap for a bit. I always felt that the Super Bowl window was open with prime Russ. Firmly believe making the Super Bowl is much easier if you have a stud QB. I don’t think Geno lands in that category, and it makes me wonder when the Seahawks will again have a top 5 NFL QB.
If the Steelers keep Fields they should use him as a " slash " like they did with Cordell Stewart. 3rd QB/ RB./ WR./ KR. or release him. Was highly overated as a QB. coming out of college.
Talking about releasing a QB. the Hawks need to bring in someone., anyone to replace P.J. Walker. With his skill set he needs to learn how to speak Canadian and join the CFL. Eh.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Mac starting to audition QBs asap. With the frequency of injuries to QBs the Hawks need a much better option at QB3 than Walker! There should be some viable QBs available after cuts are made.
Russ takes those maddening sacks, either bc he’s not as elusive in real life as he is in head, or, bc he thinks his line should give him 4 secs to pass. Kills more drives than he extends, at this point. And too many average plays between gorgeous long balls (always to the outside). You eventually get tired of that.
2022+ Russ is far easier to game plan for as a DC vs the player he was 2012 to 2017ish. He must’ve driven some DCs crazy back in the day making explosive plays out of nothing, running around playing “can’t catch me!”
Remember Pete saying he wanted Russ to get his Masters in QBing and really take it to the next level? That never happened—Russ wanted to be DangeRuss.
About two weeks ago I also stopped seeing SJ’s emails in my in box, but found them in trash? Don’t understand why, but it continues. So, if you haven’t checked the trash box, do so.
Sorry Ronald, I'm having a hard time deciphering your comments with the information you've provided and if you've sent previous messages that I have not seen, I apolgize. As to reaching me, there is a DM service on the substack app, comments, and replying to emails if you have questions about your subscription available 24/7/365. There is also substack support, support@zendesk.substack.com if you are having issues receiving the newsletter. I can promise that I have not been intentionally creating any sort of technical errors or frustrations directly at you though.
I can't think of a single example in the last couple decades of a quarterback who wasn't already a star, changing teams and becoming a star. Geno might be the best success story for this plot line ever, and I don't think it's Hallmark movie worthy at this point (win a Super Bowl and we'll start talking movie rights). Hasselbeck? Trent Green? There's probably some other good QBs that had their original teams give up on them only to become solid/pro-bowl-ish players, but even these guys were let go due to circumstance (Hasselbeck was behind Favre and Green got hurt and replaced by Kurt Warner) and not for poor play. The point is that Geno's story is truly unique. If Lock, Howell, Fields, Lance, Zach Wilson or whoever manage to have a sustained franchise QB kind of career it would be a unique and amazing story. Maybe Baker Mayfield will be that guy. If we're really really lucky, Howell will be that guy. In all likelihood, however, he's got a Marcus Mariota/Gardner Minshew ceiling.
In the 21st century only? Drew Brees got better with the Saints, but as you say, was already respected for his last couple of seasons with the Chargers. Kirk Cousins solidified that his last couple of seasons in Washington were real. I know Jared Goff wasn't stinking up the joint in LA, but he's definitely changed the narrative in Detroit. Probably the best example would be Ryan Tannehill, as even though he wasn't horrible in Miami, he was definitely put out to pasture.
Just a few names to consider, but I agree with everything you said.
Plunkett got pummeled in New England with a really bad O-line and a poor O coordinator. He always had game and when given a chance behind a halfway decent O-line in Oakland proved that he was a decent NFL QB.
But you could make that argument about a lot of guys. Plunkett’s career turned around in SF, but he broke through with the Raiders. FWIW, I think he (finally) played for an owner (Al Davis) who knew what he had.
Rich Gannon had a really unique, Geno-like, career path. Good call. If Geno can get us to the Super Bowl, we can call him the greatest story since Rich Gannon!
Thought of all those mentioned by the guys, but just wanted to add that you had one there in your original comment about Hasselbeck sitting behind Brett Favre. Favre came over from ATL when he was a nobody. Doug Williams, 1st black QB to win a Super Bowl. Won with Washington after having played poorly in relative obscurity for Tampa Bay for some time.
Short of "star" status, Erik Kramer and Jim Miller played well for the NFC North for a few years, but neither approached the Super Bowl.
Your point does hold water, though. Even though we can think of a few, it is definitely not a common occurance.
The NFL has certainly changed over the years. I didn't remember that Favre was drafted by ATL. I don't think that scenario would have played out the same way in today's NFL, but that might be the best example of a team just getting it wrong with a guy they drafted.
The Hawks picked up Shenault after Grubb. The analyst in the video talked about how Grubb likes to stretch the field horizontally on run plays by including WR a lateral pass away. I wonder if Shenault wouldn't fit that spot well (the RB/WR to the bunch side who catches the lateral pass effectively a run play) and was picked up to fit that role among the others mentioned.
Great read! Thank you for a very clean perspective of the time line involving all of these players. I get how many think Geno isn't the guy. I understand he isn't a top five guy. BUT, with all the shade thrown at him last year he played very well down the stretch (all things considered.) Again, with the O getting more time ( because of an improved D, which I believe we will have) simply a better Offensive Coordinator/game plan which I truly believe will include a better run game/at least more balanced- it boils down offensively whether or not the O-line can do its job. Geno with a decent O-line will be better IMHO than many think he will be. -Super, No! Very decent and competent, You Bet!
Hey all. I just wanted to take a moment to commemorate my father LJ, a huge Seahawks fan for life as well as a Super Joes member. He unexpectedly passed last night at just 50 years old. I’m not using this as a platform for discussion regarding the matter, I simply want to honor his love of the Seahawks in a place where fellow Seahawks lovers gather. Thank you!
I knew I wasn't going to get the answer to the pop quiz because my memory isn't great for individual plays or events, so I looked it up. I do remember saying to my friends that that guy just won the starting job. Wow. I can't believe it was those 2 guys that caught the passes.
Funny how both of their names sound like they are related to famous people (1 a famous TE and 1 a modern English movie actor), 1 IS related to his famous namesake, the other is not.
Golden Tate and Sidney Rice? (totally guessing here)
Not these 2. I probably made the game harder to get right because I mentioned starters playing deep into that preseason game. These 2 names won't be on the tip of your tongue unless you specifically remember those touchdown plays, I'm guessing.
My guesses without looking would be Kearse and Lockette.
Still too high profile!
That leaves Butler and Baldwin
So Russ may be in trouble in Pittsburgh if the OL is as bad as it looked last week. Russ doesn’t have escape velocity in his legs any more and that is where Fields might have an advantage despite Russ being a far superior passer.
That's what I see as well. Either way, Pittsburgh might be in trouble.
Braylon Edwards and Anthony McCoy.
Star QBs are rare and ridiculously expensive. The best QBs entering the draft are extremely expensive and risky. QBs that teams gave up on are dirt cheap, and are even less likely to succeed, but might also have great college tape, and were probably let go from a bad team that had questionable coaching, a poor O-line, and no Pro Bowl targets.
JS plays Moneyball.
We were lucky to get Russ at the draft position we did and to have him cheap for a bit. I always felt that the Super Bowl window was open with prime Russ. Firmly believe making the Super Bowl is much easier if you have a stud QB. I don’t think Geno lands in that category, and it makes me wonder when the Seahawks will again have a top 5 NFL QB.
If the Steelers keep Fields they should use him as a " slash " like they did with Cordell Stewart. 3rd QB/ RB./ WR./ KR. or release him. Was highly overated as a QB. coming out of college.
Talking about releasing a QB. the Hawks need to bring in someone., anyone to replace P.J. Walker. With his skill set he needs to learn how to speak Canadian and join the CFL. Eh.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Mac starting to audition QBs asap. With the frequency of injuries to QBs the Hawks need a much better option at QB3 than Walker! There should be some viable QBs available after cuts are made.
Russ takes those maddening sacks, either bc he’s not as elusive in real life as he is in head, or, bc he thinks his line should give him 4 secs to pass. Kills more drives than he extends, at this point. And too many average plays between gorgeous long balls (always to the outside). You eventually get tired of that.
2022+ Russ is far easier to game plan for as a DC vs the player he was 2012 to 2017ish. He must’ve driven some DCs crazy back in the day making explosive plays out of nothing, running around playing “can’t catch me!”
Remember Pete saying he wanted Russ to get his Masters in QBing and really take it to the next level? That never happened—Russ wanted to be DangeRuss.
Why do you take my money and no longer send me daily emails with your newsletters
About two weeks ago I also stopped seeing SJ’s emails in my in box, but found them in trash? Don’t understand why, but it continues. So, if you haven’t checked the trash box, do so.
Why do you have no way of communicating about your subscription service that does not send information to anyone
Sorry Ronald, I'm having a hard time deciphering your comments with the information you've provided and if you've sent previous messages that I have not seen, I apolgize. As to reaching me, there is a DM service on the substack app, comments, and replying to emails if you have questions about your subscription available 24/7/365. There is also substack support, support@zendesk.substack.com if you are having issues receiving the newsletter. I can promise that I have not been intentionally creating any sort of technical errors or frustrations directly at you though.
The Substack DM service is obscure, to say the least. I didn’t know it existed until now.
Thank you I’m following up. I love you blogs or whatever they call..
I can't think of a single example in the last couple decades of a quarterback who wasn't already a star, changing teams and becoming a star. Geno might be the best success story for this plot line ever, and I don't think it's Hallmark movie worthy at this point (win a Super Bowl and we'll start talking movie rights). Hasselbeck? Trent Green? There's probably some other good QBs that had their original teams give up on them only to become solid/pro-bowl-ish players, but even these guys were let go due to circumstance (Hasselbeck was behind Favre and Green got hurt and replaced by Kurt Warner) and not for poor play. The point is that Geno's story is truly unique. If Lock, Howell, Fields, Lance, Zach Wilson or whoever manage to have a sustained franchise QB kind of career it would be a unique and amazing story. Maybe Baker Mayfield will be that guy. If we're really really lucky, Howell will be that guy. In all likelihood, however, he's got a Marcus Mariota/Gardner Minshew ceiling.
In the 21st century only? Drew Brees got better with the Saints, but as you say, was already respected for his last couple of seasons with the Chargers. Kirk Cousins solidified that his last couple of seasons in Washington were real. I know Jared Goff wasn't stinking up the joint in LA, but he's definitely changed the narrative in Detroit. Probably the best example would be Ryan Tannehill, as even though he wasn't horrible in Miami, he was definitely put out to pasture.
Just a few names to consider, but I agree with everything you said.
Going back all the way to the Dark Ages of the 1980s, how about Jim Plunkett? In this century, Rich Gannon.
Plunkett got pummeled in New England with a really bad O-line and a poor O coordinator. He always had game and when given a chance behind a halfway decent O-line in Oakland proved that he was a decent NFL QB.
But you could make that argument about a lot of guys. Plunkett’s career turned around in SF, but he broke through with the Raiders. FWIW, I think he (finally) played for an owner (Al Davis) who knew what he had.
Rich Gannon had a really unique, Geno-like, career path. Good call. If Geno can get us to the Super Bowl, we can call him the greatest story since Rich Gannon!
I remember the Drew Brees deal , getting shipped out and always thought at that time it was bit confusing.
Thought of all those mentioned by the guys, but just wanted to add that you had one there in your original comment about Hasselbeck sitting behind Brett Favre. Favre came over from ATL when he was a nobody. Doug Williams, 1st black QB to win a Super Bowl. Won with Washington after having played poorly in relative obscurity for Tampa Bay for some time.
Short of "star" status, Erik Kramer and Jim Miller played well for the NFC North for a few years, but neither approached the Super Bowl.
Your point does hold water, though. Even though we can think of a few, it is definitely not a common occurance.
Had to go back aways for those, though.
The NFL has certainly changed over the years. I didn't remember that Favre was drafted by ATL. I don't think that scenario would have played out the same way in today's NFL, but that might be the best example of a team just getting it wrong with a guy they drafted.
Warren Moon and Joe Thiessman both started their careers in the CFL—Doug Flutie too 😊. Joe won a SB in Washington.
When I see Shenault play I think about the bunch WR sets from Grubb's offense in Joe's Post:
https://substack.com/@seasidejoe/p-147673838
And the video here;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=160&v=Vtn8mLc9Qko&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack.com%2F
The Hawks picked up Shenault after Grubb. The analyst in the video talked about how Grubb likes to stretch the field horizontally on run plays by including WR a lateral pass away. I wonder if Shenault wouldn't fit that spot well (the RB/WR to the bunch side who catches the lateral pass effectively a run play) and was picked up to fit that role among the others mentioned.
Whoops this was supposed to be on the other article from today.
We read them all, anyway.
You bring up an interesting point about Shenault. He was used in similar ways in Jacksonville.
Great read! Thank you for a very clean perspective of the time line involving all of these players. I get how many think Geno isn't the guy. I understand he isn't a top five guy. BUT, with all the shade thrown at him last year he played very well down the stretch (all things considered.) Again, with the O getting more time ( because of an improved D, which I believe we will have) simply a better Offensive Coordinator/game plan which I truly believe will include a better run game/at least more balanced- it boils down offensively whether or not the O-line can do its job. Geno with a decent O-line will be better IMHO than many think he will be. -Super, No! Very decent and competent, You Bet!
Hey all. I just wanted to take a moment to commemorate my father LJ, a huge Seahawks fan for life as well as a Super Joes member. He unexpectedly passed last night at just 50 years old. I’m not using this as a platform for discussion regarding the matter, I simply want to honor his love of the Seahawks in a place where fellow Seahawks lovers gather. Thank you!
Wow, that's a tough loss. I'm sorry.
So sorry for your loss. I'm glad to know he enjoyed being a 12 with us.
I'm shooting from the hip on your hotshot question, but I'm going to say Braylon Edwards and TO.
I knew I wasn't going to get the answer to the pop quiz because my memory isn't great for individual plays or events, so I looked it up. I do remember saying to my friends that that guy just won the starting job. Wow. I can't believe it was those 2 guys that caught the passes.
Funny how both of their names sound like they are related to famous people (1 a famous TE and 1 a modern English movie actor), 1 IS related to his famous namesake, the other is not.
Pop quiz hot shot WAG for 1:
Dougie Baldwin?