“I felt the second round pick was a worthy sacrifice if Williams was re-signed….” The Hawks traded a second round pick for the Giants eating his cap hit… It was essentially us trading a draft pick for additional Cap space.
From what Schneider said on Wyman/Stelton, conversions such as with Geno’s contract are part of the original negotiation—I.e., no additional negotiations are required. It sounded like this is the case for all negotiated Seahawks’ contracts. They have already done this for Lockett (last May) and Adams (last September), but not for Diggs.
JS will want to see "his guys" remain. So long as Pete delivered a post season presence, John had no leg to stand on. His anxieties built over this last season due to the post-game talks he had with players. It laid the foundations for those anxieties. "It'll be okay, Johnny" began to ring hollow as Pete failed to read his partner. Whatever Detroit is building is close to what JS wants to see. I think MM and John agree on this. After the Lion's OC decided to stay, Mike was the closest to delivering this. That's my lens and I'll stick with it as we watch who they keep and let go. That McVay fielded an almost totally rebuilt roster and won with it, speaks volumes to what we shall see. That must be keeping JS awake at night. Go with your instincts, John. No need to compromise them anymore. If he's not rested, I don't expect to see him on talk shows. This is for all the marbles.
I wish there was a triple like button. Having more to spend should not equal spending more on free agents. In fact there is a strong argument that this a terrible year to go free agent shopping. I take a slightly different tact to the free agent players will want more argument. Players always want more regardless of the cap what controls a market is what buyers will pay, and when buyers have money they didn’t expect they will pay more. Translation there are a lot of teams itching to spend their new found cap space so the free agent market is likely to be inflated. The new found cap space, however, is not likely to be spent evenly, as premium players are going to get the lion’s share. The roster fillers the Seahawks were likely to sign prices are not going to change significantly. So the Seahawks budget should not change. Meaning the planned releases should not change. If the Seahawks were going to cut Locket they should not keep him because they can afford him . Nor should the Seahawks go all in on Williams because they can afford him. What should change is the any plan involving restructuring additional contracts to move cap hits into the future so that they can fill out the 51 man roster this year.
Vet. minimum & rookie salaries won't change until the labor agreement is renegotiated, and veteran contracts not only lap-and-gap each other, but are incentivized differently...so yup-yup-yup the eventual salary increases will be VERY non-uniform.
We're not looking for bottom-feeders at this point, anyway...getting a bunch of Really Good Guys will be every bit as hard as it looked 24 hours ago.
And, being Idiotically tactless, I will not change tack again. I may reach a bit, though. Gybe ho!
Well one major benefit of this increase, we need a lot of players. We have no ILBs (need at least 2 starters there). We have a blocking TE with great hands but he’s not a receiving TE). We need IOL and backup/starting OT. Backup QB (if not a rookie that’s 5ish mil). Kick returner. DLine depth, especially if Williams not signed. We’re far from a full team and draft isn’t going to fill it.
Quantity is not want is needed. Positions listed are needed starters. We have no players signed for those listed spots. We had “quantity” this year and we did not get really anything from Taylor, Curhan, Stone, Haynes, Mario etc. I’m not talking depth these were often starters and they are not signed.
The players know how much more money is now available to every team. They'll tend to raise their asking prices accordingly. We won't get more players than we otherwise would have. The ones we _do_ get won't be better players than they otherwise would have. The increased cap did not give us any competitive advantage in the Free Agent bidding wars.
Totally agree. But not everyone will get the big increases. Vet minimum you mentioned in other post though has only changed marginally. Tenders slight increase. But JS and front office are good at creating contracts overall. But top of the market definitely just increased at same rate.
The Seahawks continue to make good decisions post Pete. I was very against Pete firing but things are looking better and better with each decision JS has made. Give props where props are due.
JS said in his opening press conference that he thinks this team is close. Well, no surprise then you keep your starting QB who is under contract for the next two years and playing, as JS said "Good". However, there was some concern especially from a very odd Schefter tweet that the team may have been thinking about moving on from Geno (and potentially starting a larger reset).
Joe, or someone else pointed this out the other day ... There may just be a weird period when people are adjusting from positive Pete speak to straightforward JS talk. Schefter could have just gotten signals crossed because JS is so direct.
The Seahawks have gone 9-8 and 9-8 in the first two years of a rebuild and fired their coach. There is no reason this team should be thinking about anything less than competing for a championship.
Last year with Geno they had a top ten offense with a bottom 5 O-line. If Grubb can improve the O-line at all, you could have a top 5 offense. Even if Grubb keeps the offense playing at the same level and the defense becomes average this is a playoff team. And if the defense is actually good this team competes to make it to the SB.
As JS said, he believes this team is close. Keep the offense intact while upgrading the actual problem (O-line) and try to let Mac work his magic on the defense.
Give Geno an O-line and a defense and let's go back to the Super Bowl.
I agree with your thinking for the most part, but with one key difference. I think with a better defense and O-line Geno’s ceiling will become clear. It could be a SB ceiling, it could be an early playoff exit. At this point I don’t know because there have been enough other missing pieces. But improvement in other areas will likely bring clarity on Geno being enough or not.
The good news, if we do create a better team around him and he proves not to be the guy, then the team will be in perfect position to drop in a rookie QB (or less experienced QB) with a better chance of success.
If I accept the analysis over on the 33rd team (starting at https://www.the33rdteam.com/the-hidden-reality-of-draft-value-part-1/) then Brooks almost certainly makes more moola playing for somebody else next year. I suspect there isn't much of a discount for the ACL. He generally showed that was behind him last year.
From the 'hawks' perspective the difficult question is "how much do next year's defensive scheme choices depend on the cost effectiveness of ILB quality they can get elsewhere?".
"Difficult", in this case, translates into sheep herder as "anybody in the peanut gallery who thinks they can predict that...mostly just likes to hear themselves talk".
Or, perhaps, they just bought theirselves a fresh Ouija puck.
Great article. We shouldn’t be surprised if anybody on the team is released or traded, but I expect that the 2024 team will be built around Geno, DK, JSN, Spoon, and Dickson. Next, add the starters who are still on their rookie contracts.
I personally like that Geno is the likely starter. He provides certainly going into next season. JSMM can’t retool the entire team in one offseason, and they just eliminated the risk of having only QBs who suck. And it’s possible that the new offense will elevate Geno to the next level. Let Geno Dine.
My biggest interest is to see what happens at LB and DL. With less churn on the offense, and some good DBs under contract, MM has a clear opportunity to build the front seven with his players. And he just might go young (and cheap) there to help bankroll more changes in 2025. Young players might just be more open to learning the new system than vets. I expect JS to be wheeling and dealing this April.
I’m not sure Geno is the certainty we require to be truely competitive in post season. He’s not getting any better. He is what he is. If their intention is ‘retooling’ as you suggest, then doing it from day dot at QB should be done when the one your suggesting will start is…..meh. Otherwise we risk improving everywhere else but being left with a QB that isn’t up to the task. Might as well try afresh now.
But if the team spends big at QB, they won’t have resources to retool the defense. And if the defense sucks, fans could turn on MM. Let’s be real, the team doesn’t have the cash or draft capital to spend big in free agency or move up high in the draft without stifling other positions and mortgaging the future. Let’s not pull a Broncos move here.
So far the team hasn’t indicated that Lock is the guy.
The other option is a mid-round rookie QB. And what if he sucks or needs time to develop? JS won’t put all his eggs in one QB basket. Better to keep Geno as the mentor and bridge QB.
The downside of keeping Geno for at least 2024 is low. The downside of spending big, drafting big, or gambling big in mid to late rounds is huge.
JSMM will get their QBotF, but he won’t start in 2024 Week 1.
Well, the team played just as well when Lock was playing, and he did no worse than Geno IMO. I think Lock would be just as good and moving on from Geno frees up some $ and space to recruit a QB from a deepish class (I’d go get Nix, personally). That wouldn’t stifle other positions and would keep the standard we had at QB at least. Arguably with more potential given Lock hasn’t been given a real chance at the Hawks yet.
"We shouldn’t be surprised if anybody on the team is released or traded, but I expect that the 2024 team will be built around Geno, DK, JSN, Spoon, and Dickson."
Yeah ... anybody can get traded at any time, but it is weird that certain circles of the Seahawks fandom center around Geno. I guess that is just what happens with the QB. But he is probably not more or less likely than anyone getting traded.
I agree. Of course with five starters plus backups, it’s almost a given that the GM has to keep upgrading the OL year after year. I expect some churn in 2024, but any big upgrades might have to wait for the following year.
Don’t get me wrong. OL is my top area of interest for the team, but for MM to prove his value, he’s got to build a coherent defense first. In 2025, they will plug the remaining holes (like iOL). In 2026, they’ll be able to see about adding star power to push the team over the top.
And then, they’ll be poor again and the cycle continues…
“I felt the second round pick was a worthy sacrifice if Williams was re-signed….” The Hawks traded a second round pick for the Giants eating his cap hit… It was essentially us trading a draft pick for additional Cap space.
From what Schneider said on Wyman/Stelton, conversions such as with Geno’s contract are part of the original negotiation—I.e., no additional negotiations are required. It sounded like this is the case for all negotiated Seahawks’ contracts. They have already done this for Lockett (last May) and Adams (last September), but not for Diggs.
JS will want to see "his guys" remain. So long as Pete delivered a post season presence, John had no leg to stand on. His anxieties built over this last season due to the post-game talks he had with players. It laid the foundations for those anxieties. "It'll be okay, Johnny" began to ring hollow as Pete failed to read his partner. Whatever Detroit is building is close to what JS wants to see. I think MM and John agree on this. After the Lion's OC decided to stay, Mike was the closest to delivering this. That's my lens and I'll stick with it as we watch who they keep and let go. That McVay fielded an almost totally rebuilt roster and won with it, speaks volumes to what we shall see. That must be keeping JS awake at night. Go with your instincts, John. No need to compromise them anymore. If he's not rested, I don't expect to see him on talk shows. This is for all the marbles.
I wish there was a triple like button. Having more to spend should not equal spending more on free agents. In fact there is a strong argument that this a terrible year to go free agent shopping. I take a slightly different tact to the free agent players will want more argument. Players always want more regardless of the cap what controls a market is what buyers will pay, and when buyers have money they didn’t expect they will pay more. Translation there are a lot of teams itching to spend their new found cap space so the free agent market is likely to be inflated. The new found cap space, however, is not likely to be spent evenly, as premium players are going to get the lion’s share. The roster fillers the Seahawks were likely to sign prices are not going to change significantly. So the Seahawks budget should not change. Meaning the planned releases should not change. If the Seahawks were going to cut Locket they should not keep him because they can afford him . Nor should the Seahawks go all in on Williams because they can afford him. What should change is the any plan involving restructuring additional contracts to move cap hits into the future so that they can fill out the 51 man roster this year.
Vet. minimum & rookie salaries won't change until the labor agreement is renegotiated, and veteran contracts not only lap-and-gap each other, but are incentivized differently...so yup-yup-yup the eventual salary increases will be VERY non-uniform.
We're not looking for bottom-feeders at this point, anyway...getting a bunch of Really Good Guys will be every bit as hard as it looked 24 hours ago.
And, being Idiotically tactless, I will not change tack again. I may reach a bit, though. Gybe ho!
Well one major benefit of this increase, we need a lot of players. We have no ILBs (need at least 2 starters there). We have a blocking TE with great hands but he’s not a receiving TE). We need IOL and backup/starting OT. Backup QB (if not a rookie that’s 5ish mil). Kick returner. DLine depth, especially if Williams not signed. We’re far from a full team and draft isn’t going to fill it.
The quantity of worms will always increase to fill a larger can.
Quantity is not want is needed. Positions listed are needed starters. We have no players signed for those listed spots. We had “quantity” this year and we did not get really anything from Taylor, Curhan, Stone, Haynes, Mario etc. I’m not talking depth these were often starters and they are not signed.
I was unnecessarily obtuse. My bad!
The players know how much more money is now available to every team. They'll tend to raise their asking prices accordingly. We won't get more players than we otherwise would have. The ones we _do_ get won't be better players than they otherwise would have. The increased cap did not give us any competitive advantage in the Free Agent bidding wars.
Totally agree. But not everyone will get the big increases. Vet minimum you mentioned in other post though has only changed marginally. Tenders slight increase. But JS and front office are good at creating contracts overall. But top of the market definitely just increased at same rate.
JS saying this team is close means he needs to stop smoking left handed cigarettes.
We have needs on the DL, LBs. Safety, OL, and an upgrade at QB. Other than that, all is hunky dory.
Without a realistic evaluation of our present personel , and making moves around the edges ,say hello to more 9 and 8 seasons
Great to have Geno back.
The Seahawks continue to make good decisions post Pete. I was very against Pete firing but things are looking better and better with each decision JS has made. Give props where props are due.
JS said in his opening press conference that he thinks this team is close. Well, no surprise then you keep your starting QB who is under contract for the next two years and playing, as JS said "Good". However, there was some concern especially from a very odd Schefter tweet that the team may have been thinking about moving on from Geno (and potentially starting a larger reset).
Joe, or someone else pointed this out the other day ... There may just be a weird period when people are adjusting from positive Pete speak to straightforward JS talk. Schefter could have just gotten signals crossed because JS is so direct.
The Seahawks have gone 9-8 and 9-8 in the first two years of a rebuild and fired their coach. There is no reason this team should be thinking about anything less than competing for a championship.
Last year with Geno they had a top ten offense with a bottom 5 O-line. If Grubb can improve the O-line at all, you could have a top 5 offense. Even if Grubb keeps the offense playing at the same level and the defense becomes average this is a playoff team. And if the defense is actually good this team competes to make it to the SB.
As JS said, he believes this team is close. Keep the offense intact while upgrading the actual problem (O-line) and try to let Mac work his magic on the defense.
Give Geno an O-line and a defense and let's go back to the Super Bowl.
I agree with your thinking for the most part, but with one key difference. I think with a better defense and O-line Geno’s ceiling will become clear. It could be a SB ceiling, it could be an early playoff exit. At this point I don’t know because there have been enough other missing pieces. But improvement in other areas will likely bring clarity on Geno being enough or not.
Great point.
Would love to get support for Geno and find out.
The good news, if we do create a better team around him and he proves not to be the guy, then the team will be in perfect position to drop in a rookie QB (or less experienced QB) with a better chance of success.
I love the optimism Mike McD (Though we need to move on from Geno IMO).
If I accept the analysis over on the 33rd team (starting at https://www.the33rdteam.com/the-hidden-reality-of-draft-value-part-1/) then Brooks almost certainly makes more moola playing for somebody else next year. I suspect there isn't much of a discount for the ACL. He generally showed that was behind him last year.
From the 'hawks' perspective the difficult question is "how much do next year's defensive scheme choices depend on the cost effectiveness of ILB quality they can get elsewhere?".
"Difficult", in this case, translates into sheep herder as "anybody in the peanut gallery who thinks they can predict that...mostly just likes to hear themselves talk".
Or, perhaps, they just bought theirselves a fresh Ouija puck.
33rd Team analysis is quite interesting, Thanks, Village. It Takes a Village ...
...to raise an Idiot.
Great article. We shouldn’t be surprised if anybody on the team is released or traded, but I expect that the 2024 team will be built around Geno, DK, JSN, Spoon, and Dickson. Next, add the starters who are still on their rookie contracts.
I personally like that Geno is the likely starter. He provides certainly going into next season. JSMM can’t retool the entire team in one offseason, and they just eliminated the risk of having only QBs who suck. And it’s possible that the new offense will elevate Geno to the next level. Let Geno Dine.
My biggest interest is to see what happens at LB and DL. With less churn on the offense, and some good DBs under contract, MM has a clear opportunity to build the front seven with his players. And he just might go young (and cheap) there to help bankroll more changes in 2025. Young players might just be more open to learning the new system than vets. I expect JS to be wheeling and dealing this April.
I’m not sure Geno is the certainty we require to be truely competitive in post season. He’s not getting any better. He is what he is. If their intention is ‘retooling’ as you suggest, then doing it from day dot at QB should be done when the one your suggesting will start is…..meh. Otherwise we risk improving everywhere else but being left with a QB that isn’t up to the task. Might as well try afresh now.
But if the team spends big at QB, they won’t have resources to retool the defense. And if the defense sucks, fans could turn on MM. Let’s be real, the team doesn’t have the cash or draft capital to spend big in free agency or move up high in the draft without stifling other positions and mortgaging the future. Let’s not pull a Broncos move here.
So far the team hasn’t indicated that Lock is the guy.
The other option is a mid-round rookie QB. And what if he sucks or needs time to develop? JS won’t put all his eggs in one QB basket. Better to keep Geno as the mentor and bridge QB.
The downside of keeping Geno for at least 2024 is low. The downside of spending big, drafting big, or gambling big in mid to late rounds is huge.
JSMM will get their QBotF, but he won’t start in 2024 Week 1.
Well, the team played just as well when Lock was playing, and he did no worse than Geno IMO. I think Lock would be just as good and moving on from Geno frees up some $ and space to recruit a QB from a deepish class (I’d go get Nix, personally). That wouldn’t stifle other positions and would keep the standard we had at QB at least. Arguably with more potential given Lock hasn’t been given a real chance at the Hawks yet.
"We shouldn’t be surprised if anybody on the team is released or traded, but I expect that the 2024 team will be built around Geno, DK, JSN, Spoon, and Dickson."
Yeah ... anybody can get traded at any time, but it is weird that certain circles of the Seahawks fandom center around Geno. I guess that is just what happens with the QB. But he is probably not more or less likely than anyone getting traded.
Second that and throw in up grade the interior offensive line.
I agree. Of course with five starters plus backups, it’s almost a given that the GM has to keep upgrading the OL year after year. I expect some churn in 2024, but any big upgrades might have to wait for the following year.
Don’t get me wrong. OL is my top area of interest for the team, but for MM to prove his value, he’s got to build a coherent defense first. In 2025, they will plug the remaining holes (like iOL). In 2026, they’ll be able to see about adding star power to push the team over the top.
And then, they’ll be poor again and the cycle continues…