The Hawks defense last year was 11th in points allowed while being the absolute worst in time of possesion for opponents. I believe the latter half of that equation was largely due to how inept the offense was by having so many 3 and outs, especially early in games. Do we think our defensive unit is substantially WORSE this season or potentially on a similar footing to last year? I tend to think, other than Wagner, we did not lose anything of substantial value. Brooks actually had more tackles last year than Wagner and he is his replacement. Losing Norton as the DC is probably a plus overall as well. If our offense can be closer to league average on time of possesion our defensive unit will almost have to take a step forward in terms of points allowed. The big reason being they are not as tired at the end of games as last year. Also more offensive time of possesion leaves less time for the other team to put up points. I'm cautiously optimistic this defense can hold its own again this year, even being as young as it probably is.
I try to read nothing into preseason, since it rarely has ever brought me to correct conclusions. But I find it interesting that several players who shined in the Steelers game absolutely floundered against the Bears. I like Clint Hurtt in interviews and clips I've seen, but I'm not of the belief he has a lot of talent to work with. I don't know what to make of the defense this year. Or the offense. Or special teams; which I expected to be strong, but we've seen a lot of guys who will be starting on ST play unacceptably poorly. How do you judge Shane Waldron without a capable quarterback? This is shaping up to be an odd season. And probably the worst one we've seen in a long time.
YES I KNOW this isn't a thread about the "QB Competition" but curious about Joe's reaction to Gilbert's piece that says there never really was a competition--it was GENO ALL THE WAY! (It is on the FG site.)
I've been posting about this since the trade. There's no next year in the NFL. That's baseball.
Everyone saying Seattle=bad because no Russell Wilson.
No. If the other team can't score, and your offense is not historically bad, you can win in this league.
I felt they were building the line well. I think it's their key. And it's not just the edge--which of yet is untested.
Woods, Ford, Jefferson, etc are a nice group. But you didn't mention the best player. Shelby Harris. Watch Denver tape. He stands out on a line that doesn't stand out. He's not a wrecker, but he's a game changer, and if guys stepped up around him (which is Hurrt's job to find those guys and play them up), Seattle could pose problems for teams.
That's why I'm holding if on 'Seahawks suck, they should draft...' because Pete has a plan to manhandle on defense, block hard and run the ball on offense (and no one had covered Walker like this site), and have a QB that needs to make a few plays a game to salt it away.
Probably can't pull it off because of inexperience...this League's most underrated value...but I'll watch to see before looking at next year's draft.
There will be one or two inside linebackers added at cutdown. There are a half-dozen on the bubble that are better than what we have as backups, maybe better than our starter. Grayson McCall probably isn't going to be a first round pick because he's too far down on most pundit's lists. Our first round picks should be an inside pass rusher and an outside pass rusher assuming worthy people are still on the board. Grayson McCall becomes our second round pick and we all live happily ever after.
How about an article on the 3-4 defense in general since Pete has had a 4-3 since he started here? What are the key elements? Does this force the secondary to play more Cover-2?
Haha. I have never thought of that! I really enjoy writing it as Jones IV, when you get to that level of passing down a name, I feel like it's a hat tip to the great grandfather.
I'm sure it's a cultural thing, as passing on names seems really normal to some folks. To me, it seems like a burden to have to carry a father's name. Almost like saying, "I expect you to be me". So I was never drawn to doing that with either of my sons.
I don't think what I'm saying is objectively true (or not true). Just different ways of seeing the world. We're born into a culture (really many cultures, micro and macro). A culture we didn't choose. For some, it's a good fit. For others, not so much.
Cool. I think as a child I might have been alright with being a junior or a third or fourth. Most boys want to be like daddy. Perhaps I would have chaffed as a teen. I'm curious to know how it was for you.
From the other side, when it came to naming my sons, if either of my wives had suggested we do the junior thing, I'd have not felt comfortable with that. Perhaps in part because it's something people don't really do in the world I come from.
Here's a prediction. Seahawks fans will be patient and go easy on Carroll if he appears to give Lock a legitimate shot at the starting job (and he wins and starts or loses, for real, and backs up Geno). But if Carroll seems to have a bias in favor of Geno, he'll lose a lot of us. And for good reason.
The only way around that is if Geno wins, in which case Pete will be seen a genius. I think the chances of Geno starting and doing well (which I'll call going .500) are small. Unless the defense starts tackling like they mean it, and our OL plays well, and our running backs get/stay healthy and are as good as advertised, and he manages to connect on a regular basis with DK and Lockett, and all the other position groups and special teams hold their own. Even then, if it seems like Geno's being carried by the rest of the team, people will be legitimately pissed.
I predict Carroll would be better off going 4-13 with Lock than 6-11 with Geno. Then folks will feel that he at least gave the younger QB with the higher ceiling a real chance to succeed.
There are a lot of fans clamoring for a 7-10 season with Geno Smith and you're right.... why? I also can't get a soul to tell me that they think Geno Smith will be or should be starting for a team in 2023.
I suppose you're right. Why anyone would want a 7-10 season with Geno is something of an enigma to me (and, from the comments I read here, my sense is that I'm not alone). There's a sizeable portion of the base that would rather go 3-14 with Drew (if it came down to that -- because it would potentially open the door to something better, which in and of itself would make the games exciting). Might be an interesting topic for a poll.
The Seahawks are simply lacking blue chips. The roster is littered with decent players. The 2022 draft may have yielded some blue chips. Perhaps the 2023 draft will as well. Until we have difference makers dotted around the offense and defense there will be no serious contending.
Yep! Seahawks may yet have a blue chip in Woolen or Bryant or Tre Brown etc., but we've yet to see it out there and maybe we will. But the 2022 draft class was as good of an effort to add blue chips as I've seen in a long time from the team.
In my view it is very odd that Pete Carroll has no depth at Linebacker. While a great many teams don't want to pay linebackers and even fewer cherish the position like Pete. It seems like they were in such a hurry to move on from Bobby Wagner, they forgot to tell him that he was cut. I have no proof, but I don't think Seattle even tried to bring him back with any offer. We may never know if Bobby would have signed with the Hawks for the same $10 million he is getting from of all teams, the Rams. They made this decision on the strength of a two game sample of Cody Barton. We are not lacking depth at Linebacker because of injuries during training camp. KJ also wanted to come back, and he would have signed for $3 million or less. Yes he is not ideal in a 3/4 defense and rushing the passer was never his strength. Wouldn't you have felt better if he was coming off the bench, batting down passes at the line of scrimmage or blowing up screens. Between 2010 and 2012 the Seahawks tried out more players than any team in the league. Perhaps they are going to take the same approach this year. It seems that with a little more foresight we would have one more starting linebacker and a 6ft 6 monster coming off the bench
Yeah, though Wagner signed a "$50m contract" with the Rams, he did not sign for more than $10 million guaranteed. Feels like he wanted to stay. This kind of supports my argument that anyone viewed as non-essential for 2023 and is expendable for cash reasons (Myers, Ford, Bellore, Jackson) is on the chopping block.
I think a reason why Wagner was released was the same reason that they released Hasselback when they did way back when. New young leaders couldn't emerge if Hasselback was on the team. I have read where players like Brooks have shown more leadership than he had in the previous years.
True, and the clock is ticking on Cody Barton. If they think he can be a starting ILB and is worth a second contract, they need to find out this year. If he's not the guy, they figure it out during a season in which the team expectation is already low.
Jarrod Hewitt has similar measurables to Aaron Donald. I wish he broke through and surprised everyone. But that's even more of a pipe dream than a 2023 winning season.
It's been interesting to see the "same measurables as AD" come through the draft pipeline these last years. That was basically Milton Williams in 2021. There were at least a couple of them this year. Guys who can play DT/NT but are 280-295.
There's really nobody like Donald. Not even close. He doesn't even play at 290. Donald says he actually plays at .... 260 to 265!!! He's crazy.
So much of what makes Donald special is his intensity. We saw it in the playoffs last year. He practically willed the Rams to the Superbowl and in that final game to pull it off.
The Hawks defense last year was 11th in points allowed while being the absolute worst in time of possesion for opponents. I believe the latter half of that equation was largely due to how inept the offense was by having so many 3 and outs, especially early in games. Do we think our defensive unit is substantially WORSE this season or potentially on a similar footing to last year? I tend to think, other than Wagner, we did not lose anything of substantial value. Brooks actually had more tackles last year than Wagner and he is his replacement. Losing Norton as the DC is probably a plus overall as well. If our offense can be closer to league average on time of possesion our defensive unit will almost have to take a step forward in terms of points allowed. The big reason being they are not as tired at the end of games as last year. Also more offensive time of possesion leaves less time for the other team to put up points. I'm cautiously optimistic this defense can hold its own again this year, even being as young as it probably is.
You are very good. I will try to support you in some way.
I try to read nothing into preseason, since it rarely has ever brought me to correct conclusions. But I find it interesting that several players who shined in the Steelers game absolutely floundered against the Bears. I like Clint Hurtt in interviews and clips I've seen, but I'm not of the belief he has a lot of talent to work with. I don't know what to make of the defense this year. Or the offense. Or special teams; which I expected to be strong, but we've seen a lot of guys who will be starting on ST play unacceptably poorly. How do you judge Shane Waldron without a capable quarterback? This is shaping up to be an odd season. And probably the worst one we've seen in a long time.
YES I KNOW this isn't a thread about the "QB Competition" but curious about Joe's reaction to Gilbert's piece that says there never really was a competition--it was GENO ALL THE WAY! (It is on the FG site.)
I've been posting about this since the trade. There's no next year in the NFL. That's baseball.
Everyone saying Seattle=bad because no Russell Wilson.
No. If the other team can't score, and your offense is not historically bad, you can win in this league.
I felt they were building the line well. I think it's their key. And it's not just the edge--which of yet is untested.
Woods, Ford, Jefferson, etc are a nice group. But you didn't mention the best player. Shelby Harris. Watch Denver tape. He stands out on a line that doesn't stand out. He's not a wrecker, but he's a game changer, and if guys stepped up around him (which is Hurrt's job to find those guys and play them up), Seattle could pose problems for teams.
That's why I'm holding if on 'Seahawks suck, they should draft...' because Pete has a plan to manhandle on defense, block hard and run the ball on offense (and no one had covered Walker like this site), and have a QB that needs to make a few plays a game to salt it away.
Probably can't pull it off because of inexperience...this League's most underrated value...but I'll watch to see before looking at next year's draft.
Yeah, you can't do any long-term rebuilds in the NFL.
There will be one or two inside linebackers added at cutdown. There are a half-dozen on the bubble that are better than what we have as backups, maybe better than our starter. Grayson McCall probably isn't going to be a first round pick because he's too far down on most pundit's lists. Our first round picks should be an inside pass rusher and an outside pass rusher assuming worthy people are still on the board. Grayson McCall becomes our second round pick and we all live happily ever after.
Grayson McCall saying he wants to be a late pick got me so fired up.
How about an article on the 3-4 defense in general since Pete has had a 4-3 since he started here? What are the key elements? Does this force the secondary to play more Cover-2?
When the season starts and the Seahawks give us 4-6 games of play, analyzing the differences is definitely something I can do.
'Jones IV ' is way too close to Vi Jones for my late night reading 🤣
Haha. I have never thought of that! I really enjoy writing it as Jones IV, when you get to that level of passing down a name, I feel like it's a hat tip to the great grandfather.
I'm sure it's a cultural thing, as passing on names seems really normal to some folks. To me, it seems like a burden to have to carry a father's name. Almost like saying, "I expect you to be me". So I was never drawn to doing that with either of my sons.
I don't think what I'm saying is objectively true (or not true). Just different ways of seeing the world. We're born into a culture (really many cultures, micro and macro). A culture we didn't choose. For some, it's a good fit. For others, not so much.
Just to be clear, I'm a third.
Cool. I think as a child I might have been alright with being a junior or a third or fourth. Most boys want to be like daddy. Perhaps I would have chaffed as a teen. I'm curious to know how it was for you.
From the other side, when it came to naming my sons, if either of my wives had suggested we do the junior thing, I'd have not felt comfortable with that. Perhaps in part because it's something people don't really do in the world I come from.
That's so right!
Here's a prediction. Seahawks fans will be patient and go easy on Carroll if he appears to give Lock a legitimate shot at the starting job (and he wins and starts or loses, for real, and backs up Geno). But if Carroll seems to have a bias in favor of Geno, he'll lose a lot of us. And for good reason.
The only way around that is if Geno wins, in which case Pete will be seen a genius. I think the chances of Geno starting and doing well (which I'll call going .500) are small. Unless the defense starts tackling like they mean it, and our OL plays well, and our running backs get/stay healthy and are as good as advertised, and he manages to connect on a regular basis with DK and Lockett, and all the other position groups and special teams hold their own. Even then, if it seems like Geno's being carried by the rest of the team, people will be legitimately pissed.
I predict Carroll would be better off going 4-13 with Lock than 6-11 with Geno. Then folks will feel that he at least gave the younger QB with the higher ceiling a real chance to succeed.
There are a lot of fans clamoring for a 7-10 season with Geno Smith and you're right.... why? I also can't get a soul to tell me that they think Geno Smith will be or should be starting for a team in 2023.
Check John Gilbert's column today on the FG site lol!
Have you a link?
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2022/8/25/23321349/the-seattle-seahawks-quarterback-competition-that-wasnt-really-competition-geno-smith-drew-lock
Thanks. Hope he's wrong. We'll see.
I suppose you're right. Why anyone would want a 7-10 season with Geno is something of an enigma to me (and, from the comments I read here, my sense is that I'm not alone). There's a sizeable portion of the base that would rather go 3-14 with Drew (if it came down to that -- because it would potentially open the door to something better, which in and of itself would make the games exciting). Might be an interesting topic for a poll.
The LBs looked horrible vs. the Bears. I expect something to change here after the roster cutdowns.
Really need to see improvement on Friday.
The Seahawks are simply lacking blue chips. The roster is littered with decent players. The 2022 draft may have yielded some blue chips. Perhaps the 2023 draft will as well. Until we have difference makers dotted around the offense and defense there will be no serious contending.
Yep! Seahawks may yet have a blue chip in Woolen or Bryant or Tre Brown etc., but we've yet to see it out there and maybe we will. But the 2022 draft class was as good of an effort to add blue chips as I've seen in a long time from the team.
In my view it is very odd that Pete Carroll has no depth at Linebacker. While a great many teams don't want to pay linebackers and even fewer cherish the position like Pete. It seems like they were in such a hurry to move on from Bobby Wagner, they forgot to tell him that he was cut. I have no proof, but I don't think Seattle even tried to bring him back with any offer. We may never know if Bobby would have signed with the Hawks for the same $10 million he is getting from of all teams, the Rams. They made this decision on the strength of a two game sample of Cody Barton. We are not lacking depth at Linebacker because of injuries during training camp. KJ also wanted to come back, and he would have signed for $3 million or less. Yes he is not ideal in a 3/4 defense and rushing the passer was never his strength. Wouldn't you have felt better if he was coming off the bench, batting down passes at the line of scrimmage or blowing up screens. Between 2010 and 2012 the Seahawks tried out more players than any team in the league. Perhaps they are going to take the same approach this year. It seems that with a little more foresight we would have one more starting linebacker and a 6ft 6 monster coming off the bench
Yeah, though Wagner signed a "$50m contract" with the Rams, he did not sign for more than $10 million guaranteed. Feels like he wanted to stay. This kind of supports my argument that anyone viewed as non-essential for 2023 and is expendable for cash reasons (Myers, Ford, Bellore, Jackson) is on the chopping block.
I think a reason why Wagner was released was the same reason that they released Hasselback when they did way back when. New young leaders couldn't emerge if Hasselback was on the team. I have read where players like Brooks have shown more leadership than he had in the previous years.
Wagner is probably in a better fit for his current self with the Rams.
True, and the clock is ticking on Cody Barton. If they think he can be a starting ILB and is worth a second contract, they need to find out this year. If he's not the guy, they figure it out during a season in which the team expectation is already low.
The front office looked at every player with a contract situation this offseason and asked themselves two things:
1. Do we think we know what you will be in 2024?
2. If yes to 1, will it help us win the Superbowl at a reasonable value?
yes + yes = keep (DK, Diggs)
yes + no = let go (Bwagz, D.J. Reed)
no + ??? = let's find out
Jarrod Hewitt has similar measurables to Aaron Donald. I wish he broke through and surprised everyone. But that's even more of a pipe dream than a 2023 winning season.
It's been interesting to see the "same measurables as AD" come through the draft pipeline these last years. That was basically Milton Williams in 2021. There were at least a couple of them this year. Guys who can play DT/NT but are 280-295.
There's really nobody like Donald. Not even close. He doesn't even play at 290. Donald says he actually plays at .... 260 to 265!!! He's crazy.
Michael Bennett is the closest I've seen.
So much of what makes Donald special is his intensity. We saw it in the playoffs last year. He practically willed the Rams to the Superbowl and in that final game to pull it off.