Re: losing the turnover battle. Texans went 1 for 4 on fourth downs. Maybe a turnover on downs doesn't equate to an interception or fumble but I thought several of those stops were impactful to the game last night.
I’m ok with the gadget plays because MM is always talking about innovation and this is part of that. However, WHEN we execute said plays seems questionable at best. They almost disrupt our flow or a great drive several times this season and as mentioned above, against better teams these choices will cost us
Well this game was a bit more “interesting” than it needed to be, but still a good win. Houston has a good defense and they played like it.
So much fun watching JSN absolutely destroy Texan DBs. Only real nit I have is the Kupp pass attempt. It seemed a bit over the top to be calling it at that point.
It was fun to listen to the broadcasters drool over JSN and the entire defensive front.
I was pleased to see Mafe show up, even if a couple of his plays became non-plays because of penalties called on other players. His pass defensed was really good. And kudos to Woolen. I’ve been down on him this season and last. He seemed really focused and effective.
QBs are going to dread playing the Seahawks defense.
The defense is really connected within each other. That's some fine MM coaching going on. Even without the two best players in the secondary, we're able to clamp down. It's something to see. Like MM says, each part of the defense is aligned together in which the front four that creates the pressure on the QB to the lock down of the secondary and vice versa. Everyone is so well coached in the scheme. The run defense was ferocious. Houston could not run on us. Bodies were swarming to the ball before the runner could get to the LOS. Considering how the run defense has been the last couple of years, this is so extremely refreshing.
The offense has been good. The trick play like the others this year was totally baffling. What a momentum killer. Such a shitty throw by Coop. Why? JSN wasn't really that open so why throw it. If the receiver isn't open then he should have run it. But, the fact is Coop is not a running back, so this play made no sense. Should have been an incomplete pass but it turned into the worst possible outcome with an interception. Things were going really nicely and then KK calls a cute play for the sake of cuteness. Clever? No. Kinda stupid. Coop said he is 0-5 when trying to be QB. Enough. It's like playing really flowing high scoring basketball and then all of a sudden everyone is trying to do behind the back passes just to be flashy that end up being sloppy with turnovers. Or, if a musician is playing beautifully and then all of sudden plays a super fast choppy lick that's no longer musical but only for the sake of showing off fast technique that's solely gratuitous.
JSN was great as usual again. But, man, he needs to get some maturity. That penalty dunking on the goal post is a known flag for many years now. That extra point became a 45 yard kick. What if it's missed and that comes back to bite in a really close game. Can't do that shit. Just be professional. Do what's right. Call the offense game right. There's much to clean up and I trust that MM and staff will no doubt take all of this into account. The defense was marvelous. The basic pass rush of the front four are really becoming something else. We had the LOB secondary. Perhaps this front will turn into something legendary before it's all said and done. So cool to see.
Perhaps the league needs to revisit just how egregious celebrating actually is and if they must attach a penalty, make it 5 yards. Why is spinning the FB worse than dancing after sacking a QB? That doesn't get penalized!
Woolen was an absolute blanket and they pretty much just avoided him at all costs. In the should have pile Jobe should be leading the league in interceptions just from tonight. 3 balls hit not 1 but both of his hands.
A part of me wonders if doing the exact same celebration everytime would keep you from ever getting a penalty. Ala Barner/Woolen.
Stroud barely bothered to throw at Woolen. As well as Jobe has played, he gets targeted a lot more than Riq. It’s clear what OC’s think the weakest link is.
Woolen is so much better in coverage than Griffin and Pritchett. We all know his weaknesses, but I'm more nervous about trading him now than I was a few weeks ago. I wouldn't be able to say no to a 3rd round pick for him, but anything less than a 4th rounder just doesn't move the needle enough for me to let go of him. We look like a team that could win it all, and CB depth now is more valuable than a day three pick next year.
I think we can’t trade Woolen now. I am concerned that Spoon’s “bruised ligament” is actually something that isn’t getting better on its own. Will this require a medical procedure to fix? Woolen is still significantly better than anyone we currently have that would step into his shoes. With a healthy Jobe, Emmanwori and Spoon, you could potentially trade Woolen if the return is decent. (Jackson Powers Johnson) But Why risk a trade id Spoon winds up on IR?
He did get left for dead when he had the edge on a RB out of the backfield. Maybe touched the guy with the tip of his finger but might as well have been me out there, gave up the 1st down with not even a whimper. Still not sure he's a football player, if you know what I mean.
For the record Woolen held outside contain and forced him inside where help was. This is the NFL. Ever watch Marshawn weak Ray Lewis ankles then get outside. One on one open field complaining isn't worth talking about. Happens to EVERY player.
See Danno's comment below: was so obviously bad MM mentioned in the the post-game press conference. I do agree with you that it happens to the best of them, but in the case of Woolen, it happens so much it could be a career-breaker, he just can't (or won't?) tackle. Philosophically opposed to the culture of this defense.
His run D actually drastically improved over the last 3 seasons. I've you look at metrics grading. Literally was like a 36 and went to a 72. Not that it matters to fans but if you like stats and analytics. The one thing i'll state and say honestly. He is the only DB man on man no over the top safety help I want on a 50+ yard pass in coverage. He's the only talent that can make up ground on any player in the league. We dont have another secondary player thats close in size and speed. If one missed one on one tackle where he forces a guy back inside. I'll take it every day. I hope he can build on it. Also weird that one 8 yard gain is so highly looked at when we had 3 dropped interceptions and so many penalties.
Unfortunately Mike MacDonald may not share your largesse, and quite honestly he shouldn't. Not when the rest of the guys are killing themselves out there, making up for what they don't have in Woolen's gifts with grit, commitment, abandon and covering for your teammate.
Woolen's also 29th in the league in penalties and 12th among DB's, and accounts by himself for 13.04% of the entire team's penalty yards, which almost gets him into the Top 10 for the entire league (he's 11th out of 704 players, since the stat includes offensive players like the heavily penalized OL's as well). So while you may be happy when they throw his way, I still cringe, even though he is improving. And I agree with you, he did a great job in this game. Just needs to grow a pair when it's time to tackle.
That looked really bad and MM mentioned it in the post game press conference. Said he made eye contact with Woolen coming off the field and Woolen knew he did not play to the standard expected. I think that’s a sign he’s aware of what he has to change.
Yeah. We know what to expect from Riq at this point, and that lack of effort is part of the deal. MM may just want him gone from a team-culture standpoint, and we'll take whatever we get for him. With the bye week ahead, that may be the last game for Woolen in a Seahawks uniform.
Come on. This is about way more than one missed tackle. Woolen's inconsistent play and questionable effort/tackling have followed him throughout his career. The most important factor, however, is just the timing of his rookie contract coming to an end. But, I'm not even advocating for a trade. I think we should keep him because we're winning games and he's more valuable as insurance to us than what we'd likely get in return for him. But, it really doesn't matter what you or I think about Woolen.
The team has made it clear that he's on the block and now they've got a week off to look at options. Maybe JS and staff have changed their minds about him, but there's no denying that they have at least done some speculative shopping. Would it really surprise anyone if a trade happened?
My immediate thoughts after the game was, ‘why can’t we put teams away when we’re clearly outplaying them by more than the score indicates?’ You mentioned the four games where it happened, and I keep waiting for them to stop playing with their food. We can’t beat championship caliber teams if we let a better team hang around. This applies to the coaches and players. I never like to second guess MM’s decisions, because hindsight is 20/20, but there was one situation the hawks were at midfield in the 2nd half and faced a 4th and 1 - they punted. The Barner push had already picked up 2 yards earlier in this situation. They lined up is a strange situation and took a delay of game then punted. I would have preferred just using the Barner push.
I know you’re forgiving of JSN’s penalty, but I can’t forgive that. He already had the ball spinning penalty a short time ago. It turned an extra point into a close to 50 yard kick for 1 point. The Seahawks were up by only 8 points at one point, and had Meyers missed that long extra point it could have been costly. We had about 100 yards in penalties in this game. Again, against better teams, this will cost us games. JSN should not try and emulate DK with stupid penalties. DK plays dumb football, JSN shouldn’t allow his incredible success go to his head and start making horrible, preventable decisions. It’s beneath him.
Totally agree. Mike MacDonald isn't Pete Carroll, so I expect Mike has set that expectation. Once, ok fine. Repeatly? No. Not going to let that into our game. That's the opposite of chasing edges.
JSN is amazing, but he's also a leader. Don't need no prima donna WR's.
No more trick plays please. Don’t know why you dial up a WR roll out pass when you’re up 14-0 and Sammy and JSN are unstoppable. Reminded me of the Jalen Milroe debacle.
Defense is dominant and Mike Mac is an absolute savant. This is a fun team to root for.
I'm actually glad they did it. Every wrinkle on tape is something other teams have to plan for. Kupp and JSN love the play and probably completed it every time in practice. JSN had plenty of space as well.
This was a game I thought our Hawks were going to lose in a low scoring affair. I thought the Texans' edges and their defensive backs were going to hold our offense down and was glad to be proven wrong. The Texans have only given up 88 points and 29 are courtesy of our Seahawks. The next ranked team for points against is the Rams at 117. That was a good defense the Seahawks played.
We need to get the 3rd down conversion rate figured out. 2-14 in January is not going to cut it either.
2-2 on the 4th down conversion rate was nice to see. Our Barnburner sneak could be the Hawks version of the tush push. No mistaken who is going to get the ball there.
12 penalties for 93 yards. Uff...
Please shelve the Cooper Kupp quarterback gadget plays right next to the Milroe gadget plays. He reminds me of a much slower and smaller version of Anthony RIchardson.
Woolen had a nice game. Jobe was good and almost had a couple of picks. Okada was a name that stuck out to me in the defensive backfield.
The defensive line absolutely harassed Shroud all night and completely shut down the Texans' run game. It was nice to hear Mafe's name called for a couple of positive plays with the tipped pass and the fumble he caused that was brought back because of a penalty.
One of these days we are going to complete one of those go routes to Horton. Sam and Tory just do not seem in sync yet.
The Arroyo and Kupp long passes were beautiful.
I was good with the run game tonight. We had at least a couple of long runs by Walker called back due to penalty. We seemed to utilize Charbonnet to his strengths this week as I do not recall any outside runs by him. We still hung 118 rush yards on that defense and played a balanced game.
The line overall, I thought, did a nice job against the strong Texans' defensive line. The run blocking will continue to jell, I feel.
Overall, this was a good win and we looked stronger in all phases of the game. I do agree with SSJ, we need to clean things up to be competitive in the latter part of the season.
All good points. Frustrating game to watch. Kept a much weaker team in the game by a combination of bad execution and bad playcalling. Fun to watch the D man up, though. Agree that this was Darnold's worst game. Couple bad errors thrown in there with his usual dimes. Run blocking remains poor, overall. And that included Zabel this time. I guess the only cure for that is experience. And maybe a new RG.
One other thing: if you haven’t yet participated in the in-game chat, you’re missing a real treat. We have an outstanding community at SSJ, none of the name-calling or other inane/inappropriate behavior on so many other of these. All are on-topic and our members have real insights. Plus our inimitable SSJ gives us real-time gems throughout. And it’s not behind a paywall, even non subscribers are welcome.
Give it a try if you haven’t yet, is one of the privileges of being part of SSJ
And guys if you haven’t yet, do sign up for at least the $5/mo that keeps SSJ in business. We have a GREAT thing going here!
I’m a little worried: taunting, celebration etc, is JSN turning into DK Metcalf? Definitely don’t need that.
I can't agree. DK got most of his penalties from anger, not from celebrations.
Both are examples of lack of self control that cost the team yards. This team could use fewer self inflicted screw ups.
Re: losing the turnover battle. Texans went 1 for 4 on fourth downs. Maybe a turnover on downs doesn't equate to an interception or fumble but I thought several of those stops were impactful to the game last night.
I’m ok with the gadget plays because MM is always talking about innovation and this is part of that. However, WHEN we execute said plays seems questionable at best. They almost disrupt our flow or a great drive several times this season and as mentioned above, against better teams these choices will cost us
We just survived the inevitable “bad Sam” game and it only hurt a bit!
That imaginary sword is pretty goofy. At least he played well this game.
How can MM/KK not give K9 goal-line carries on his birthday? Not cool!
That's hard core. Everyone knows dude wants TD's for his birthday.
Well this game was a bit more “interesting” than it needed to be, but still a good win. Houston has a good defense and they played like it.
So much fun watching JSN absolutely destroy Texan DBs. Only real nit I have is the Kupp pass attempt. It seemed a bit over the top to be calling it at that point.
It was fun to listen to the broadcasters drool over JSN and the entire defensive front.
I was pleased to see Mafe show up, even if a couple of his plays became non-plays because of penalties called on other players. His pass defensed was really good. And kudos to Woolen. I’ve been down on him this season and last. He seemed really focused and effective.
QBs are going to dread playing the Seahawks defense.
Mafe’s athleticism does make him one of the more effective DLmen when he drops back in pass coverage.
The defense is really connected within each other. That's some fine MM coaching going on. Even without the two best players in the secondary, we're able to clamp down. It's something to see. Like MM says, each part of the defense is aligned together in which the front four that creates the pressure on the QB to the lock down of the secondary and vice versa. Everyone is so well coached in the scheme. The run defense was ferocious. Houston could not run on us. Bodies were swarming to the ball before the runner could get to the LOS. Considering how the run defense has been the last couple of years, this is so extremely refreshing.
The offense has been good. The trick play like the others this year was totally baffling. What a momentum killer. Such a shitty throw by Coop. Why? JSN wasn't really that open so why throw it. If the receiver isn't open then he should have run it. But, the fact is Coop is not a running back, so this play made no sense. Should have been an incomplete pass but it turned into the worst possible outcome with an interception. Things were going really nicely and then KK calls a cute play for the sake of cuteness. Clever? No. Kinda stupid. Coop said he is 0-5 when trying to be QB. Enough. It's like playing really flowing high scoring basketball and then all of a sudden everyone is trying to do behind the back passes just to be flashy that end up being sloppy with turnovers. Or, if a musician is playing beautifully and then all of sudden plays a super fast choppy lick that's no longer musical but only for the sake of showing off fast technique that's solely gratuitous.
JSN was great as usual again. But, man, he needs to get some maturity. That penalty dunking on the goal post is a known flag for many years now. That extra point became a 45 yard kick. What if it's missed and that comes back to bite in a really close game. Can't do that shit. Just be professional. Do what's right. Call the offense game right. There's much to clean up and I trust that MM and staff will no doubt take all of this into account. The defense was marvelous. The basic pass rush of the front four are really becoming something else. We had the LOB secondary. Perhaps this front will turn into something legendary before it's all said and done. So cool to see.
Perhaps the league needs to revisit just how egregious celebrating actually is and if they must attach a penalty, make it 5 yards. Why is spinning the FB worse than dancing after sacking a QB? That doesn't get penalized!
... the ref's thrown flag was the highest i've ever seen one thrown (on the replay).
Maybe they need to kick Kupp out of QB room meetings. (JK) He’s getting too many ideas and back up QB4 is not a good idea. ;)
I just want to see a clean game with no poorly executed trick plays and no penalties for stupid stuff! That is all-
Woolen was an absolute blanket and they pretty much just avoided him at all costs. In the should have pile Jobe should be leading the league in interceptions just from tonight. 3 balls hit not 1 but both of his hands.
A part of me wonders if doing the exact same celebration everytime would keep you from ever getting a penalty. Ala Barner/Woolen.
Stroud barely bothered to throw at Woolen. As well as Jobe has played, he gets targeted a lot more than Riq. It’s clear what OC’s think the weakest link is.
Woolen is so much better in coverage than Griffin and Pritchett. We all know his weaknesses, but I'm more nervous about trading him now than I was a few weeks ago. I wouldn't be able to say no to a 3rd round pick for him, but anything less than a 4th rounder just doesn't move the needle enough for me to let go of him. We look like a team that could win it all, and CB depth now is more valuable than a day three pick next year.
MM said recently that Woolen is their guy and it sure doesn't seem there's any plan to entertain trading him.
I think we can’t trade Woolen now. I am concerned that Spoon’s “bruised ligament” is actually something that isn’t getting better on its own. Will this require a medical procedure to fix? Woolen is still significantly better than anyone we currently have that would step into his shoes. With a healthy Jobe, Emmanwori and Spoon, you could potentially trade Woolen if the return is decent. (Jackson Powers Johnson) But Why risk a trade id Spoon winds up on IR?
He did get left for dead when he had the edge on a RB out of the backfield. Maybe touched the guy with the tip of his finger but might as well have been me out there, gave up the 1st down with not even a whimper. Still not sure he's a football player, if you know what I mean.
For the record Woolen held outside contain and forced him inside where help was. This is the NFL. Ever watch Marshawn weak Ray Lewis ankles then get outside. One on one open field complaining isn't worth talking about. Happens to EVERY player.
See Danno's comment below: was so obviously bad MM mentioned in the the post-game press conference. I do agree with you that it happens to the best of them, but in the case of Woolen, it happens so much it could be a career-breaker, he just can't (or won't?) tackle. Philosophically opposed to the culture of this defense.
His run D actually drastically improved over the last 3 seasons. I've you look at metrics grading. Literally was like a 36 and went to a 72. Not that it matters to fans but if you like stats and analytics. The one thing i'll state and say honestly. He is the only DB man on man no over the top safety help I want on a 50+ yard pass in coverage. He's the only talent that can make up ground on any player in the league. We dont have another secondary player thats close in size and speed. If one missed one on one tackle where he forces a guy back inside. I'll take it every day. I hope he can build on it. Also weird that one 8 yard gain is so highly looked at when we had 3 dropped interceptions and so many penalties.
Unfortunately Mike MacDonald may not share your largesse, and quite honestly he shouldn't. Not when the rest of the guys are killing themselves out there, making up for what they don't have in Woolen's gifts with grit, commitment, abandon and covering for your teammate.
Woolen's also 29th in the league in penalties and 12th among DB's, and accounts by himself for 13.04% of the entire team's penalty yards, which almost gets him into the Top 10 for the entire league (he's 11th out of 704 players, since the stat includes offensive players like the heavily penalized OL's as well). So while you may be happy when they throw his way, I still cringe, even though he is improving. And I agree with you, he did a great job in this game. Just needs to grow a pair when it's time to tackle.
That looked really bad and MM mentioned it in the post game press conference. Said he made eye contact with Woolen coming off the field and Woolen knew he did not play to the standard expected. I think that’s a sign he’s aware of what he has to change.
Yeah. We know what to expect from Riq at this point, and that lack of effort is part of the deal. MM may just want him gone from a team-culture standpoint, and we'll take whatever we get for him. With the bye week ahead, that may be the last game for Woolen in a Seahawks uniform.
So our best DB this game just played his last game because of 1 missed tackle? You do know Coby Bryant averages like 4 missed tackles a game right?
Come on. This is about way more than one missed tackle. Woolen's inconsistent play and questionable effort/tackling have followed him throughout his career. The most important factor, however, is just the timing of his rookie contract coming to an end. But, I'm not even advocating for a trade. I think we should keep him because we're winning games and he's more valuable as insurance to us than what we'd likely get in return for him. But, it really doesn't matter what you or I think about Woolen.
The team has made it clear that he's on the block and now they've got a week off to look at options. Maybe JS and staff have changed their minds about him, but there's no denying that they have at least done some speculative shopping. Would it really surprise anyone if a trade happened?
I’m betting he stays around for the year. I’ve got concerns about Spoon’s injury being more serious than they are saying.
I don't see Woolen going anywhere either unless JS can deal for an outside corner who can start at that spot.
My immediate thoughts after the game was, ‘why can’t we put teams away when we’re clearly outplaying them by more than the score indicates?’ You mentioned the four games where it happened, and I keep waiting for them to stop playing with their food. We can’t beat championship caliber teams if we let a better team hang around. This applies to the coaches and players. I never like to second guess MM’s decisions, because hindsight is 20/20, but there was one situation the hawks were at midfield in the 2nd half and faced a 4th and 1 - they punted. The Barner push had already picked up 2 yards earlier in this situation. They lined up is a strange situation and took a delay of game then punted. I would have preferred just using the Barner push.
I know you’re forgiving of JSN’s penalty, but I can’t forgive that. He already had the ball spinning penalty a short time ago. It turned an extra point into a close to 50 yard kick for 1 point. The Seahawks were up by only 8 points at one point, and had Meyers missed that long extra point it could have been costly. We had about 100 yards in penalties in this game. Again, against better teams, this will cost us games. JSN should not try and emulate DK with stupid penalties. DK plays dumb football, JSN shouldn’t allow his incredible success go to his head and start making horrible, preventable decisions. It’s beneath him.
Totally agree. Mike MacDonald isn't Pete Carroll, so I expect Mike has set that expectation. Once, ok fine. Repeatly? No. Not going to let that into our game. That's the opposite of chasing edges.
JSN is amazing, but he's also a leader. Don't need no prima donna WR's.
I hope and expect JSN to get the message.
No more trick plays please. Don’t know why you dial up a WR roll out pass when you’re up 14-0 and Sammy and JSN are unstoppable. Reminded me of the Jalen Milroe debacle.
Defense is dominant and Mike Mac is an absolute savant. This is a fun team to root for.
I'm actually glad they did it. Every wrinkle on tape is something other teams have to plan for. Kupp and JSN love the play and probably completed it every time in practice. JSN had plenty of space as well.
SSJ, thanks for the write up!
This was a game I thought our Hawks were going to lose in a low scoring affair. I thought the Texans' edges and their defensive backs were going to hold our offense down and was glad to be proven wrong. The Texans have only given up 88 points and 29 are courtesy of our Seahawks. The next ranked team for points against is the Rams at 117. That was a good defense the Seahawks played.
We need to get the 3rd down conversion rate figured out. 2-14 in January is not going to cut it either.
2-2 on the 4th down conversion rate was nice to see. Our Barnburner sneak could be the Hawks version of the tush push. No mistaken who is going to get the ball there.
12 penalties for 93 yards. Uff...
Please shelve the Cooper Kupp quarterback gadget plays right next to the Milroe gadget plays. He reminds me of a much slower and smaller version of Anthony RIchardson.
Woolen had a nice game. Jobe was good and almost had a couple of picks. Okada was a name that stuck out to me in the defensive backfield.
The defensive line absolutely harassed Shroud all night and completely shut down the Texans' run game. It was nice to hear Mafe's name called for a couple of positive plays with the tipped pass and the fumble he caused that was brought back because of a penalty.
One of these days we are going to complete one of those go routes to Horton. Sam and Tory just do not seem in sync yet.
The Arroyo and Kupp long passes were beautiful.
I was good with the run game tonight. We had at least a couple of long runs by Walker called back due to penalty. We seemed to utilize Charbonnet to his strengths this week as I do not recall any outside runs by him. We still hung 118 rush yards on that defense and played a balanced game.
The line overall, I thought, did a nice job against the strong Texans' defensive line. The run blocking will continue to jell, I feel.
Overall, this was a good win and we looked stronger in all phases of the game. I do agree with SSJ, we need to clean things up to be competitive in the latter part of the season.
All good points. Frustrating game to watch. Kept a much weaker team in the game by a combination of bad execution and bad playcalling. Fun to watch the D man up, though. Agree that this was Darnold's worst game. Couple bad errors thrown in there with his usual dimes. Run blocking remains poor, overall. And that included Zabel this time. I guess the only cure for that is experience. And maybe a new RG.
Feeling pretty good about not watching this live due to the 0300 kickoff over here. I'd have been in A&E with tachycardia watching that in real time!
It was a very late start in Ark-in-saw 'n even later for the East Coast, all due to having two Monday Night games. More $ for the streaming studios.
One other thing: if you haven’t yet participated in the in-game chat, you’re missing a real treat. We have an outstanding community at SSJ, none of the name-calling or other inane/inappropriate behavior on so many other of these. All are on-topic and our members have real insights. Plus our inimitable SSJ gives us real-time gems throughout. And it’s not behind a paywall, even non subscribers are welcome.
Give it a try if you haven’t yet, is one of the privileges of being part of SSJ
And guys if you haven’t yet, do sign up for at least the $5/mo that keeps SSJ in business. We have a GREAT thing going here!