I have three burning training camp questions: Will Horton bet out MVS as the deep threat? Or, will the Hawks keep both with MVS taking kicks? Two will Arroyo become the sideline-contested catch go to or an intermediate TE? And like everyone else who wins the starting job for Center and RG.
I cannot wait to see Robbie Ouzts lead blocking for K-9. My BOLD prediction (not really considering the lack of competition), is he makes an All-Pro team in his first couple years. Kyle Juszczyk and Patrick Ricard are heading into their age 34 and 31 seasons respectively. Who says Ouzts can't take their place at the top of the FB pyramid? Could he be the first Seahawk All-Pro since Bobby?
Kenneth, could you research and report on Jarran Reed at NT? Hankins gets the talk but isn't Jarran our starting NT? Looks like he has put on 15/20 lbs of muscle. The roster lists him as such, also showing Murphy moving to 3-Tech. Thx!
Let's talk about pass catchers. Not WRs, but all pass catchers. I think Arroyo is the #2 target in this offense. It might not happen right away, but that's the plan right now. JS knew he needed to add a young receiver in the draft and he chose Arroyo. Then he ignored the WR position until the 5th round, where Horton should not have still been available (according to most draft pundits). He fell into our laps. We'd all be thrilled if Horton tuns out to be the steel of the draft and becomes a solid outside receiver. However, Arroyo is the guy we should be betting on to demand targets in this offense, because that's who the front office bet on. They doubled down on that bet by letting Fant go.
It doesn't matter who wins the 5th or 6th WR roster spot, or if Horton is better than MVS, or if we get more Bobo, or if Kupp still has anything left in the tank. The most important new addition to the offense not named "Sam," is Arroyo.
Yeah, and please don't get me wrong, I don't think Kupp is washed up. I think he'll be the #2 guy this season, and especially valuable early on as the offense gels. I also think MVS is going to be a better role player than most give him credit for. It wouldn't surprise me if he leads the team in receiving TDs. I also think Bobo is a lock to make the roster. I'm really excited about our receivers! But... if the Arroyo bet hits, this offense transforms in a way that no other player can duplicate.
Question: Who is our depth at LB? I’m ecstatic with the Jones extension at the price we got him for, and Knight can only be better in his 2nd yr, so I’m delighted with them. But if one (or both😳) go down, who do we have? Still can’t believe we let Greenlaw get away so cheaply…
Prediction: We’re going to be anxious about our offense the entire pre-season. New everything, and up against a better defense than they’re going to face most of the schedule. QB and OL the double-anxious
“Burning through my brain” question: Do we finally have a good OL (players/scheme/coaching). If we do, the running game will be effective and an average to even below-avg QB room can be effective. If not, we better get used to Myers and Dickson competing for 2025 Seahawks MVP. More than ever, I fear this season rides on the broad shoulders of the OL
In response to the LB depth, I think MM really likes Josh Ross as the backup Mike. He was the starting MLB for Michigan when MM was the DC, and he was a backup for Roquan Smith in Baltimore. We know the strong affinity Macdonald has for the inside linebacker position, and I think he hand picked Ross as the backup when he was waived from the Ravens last year.
As for the Will, I'm a little less concerned. It seems to be a less "heady" position then the Mike in this scheme. Put a good athlete there who likes to hunt downfield, and they can make do.
No shot Greenlaw would have signed as a backup. He wanted the chance to start, and the Broncos offered that.
Honestly, yeah I could see it. I remember before cutting him, the Seahawks asked Jamal Adams to move to LB. Maybe they have a similar backup plan for Emmanwori if Knight goes down.
MM has said he wasnts the OL locked early in training camp, so I think we'll know what that looks like at some point next week.
My HOPE is that nobody gets hurt.
My expectation is that we'll see nothing but plain vanilla from offense and defense until the games start counting. The fanbase might get restive, especially if Darnold doesn't do anything spectacular (and he probably won't, because that's probably not what he's working on just now), but both KK and MM thrive on misdirection and concealment.
My guess is that we'll see at least one player added before the season begins. They have the cap space, and MM has shown a willingness to change what does not work as quickly as possible. Not in any order, but I wouldn't be surprised to see us add an inside LB, or a NT, or an X receiver. That last one I know people are worried about, I'm not entirely convinced Kubiak's offense needs one, or that he can't finesse his way around it.
Let's remember that it took half a season to get the D clicking last year, and let's extend that courtesy to Kubiak as well.
- Sundell wins a spot, either at center or RG. He's a little light to be a bully, but I don't think this is a bully offense. It's a run and get to your spot, setup your angle, and get to your guy. I think this plays into what he does best.
- After Sundell, I'm not confident in who will win the other open spot. I don't think it will be Bradford. After the pads come on things will, as Mike MacDonald phrases it, declare themselves.
- If you look at the 90 man roster, look at that list of WR's (12 of them!). Holy smoke! Competition indeed. Horton will be on the 53 barring injury, as of course will JSN and Kupp. MVS, although perhaps not a lock, will likely be. After that who knows. Bobo has a great shot due to his special teams play and very good blocking ability (which is a must for Kubiak). But Bobo will be pushed hard by other options.
- Back to Horton, he may not be competing with MVS at all for a roster spot. If they see him as more of a flanker (rather than an x receiver) then he may get used quite differently. We'll see in preseason.
- I'll predict that Arroyo is a revelation right from the jump. You'll see a lot of him in preseason. He's a 250 lb problem, with speed and hands and YAC ability. Expect to read a lot about him as the practices ramp up.
- iLB is still a question for me after Jones and Knight. I could see a move there at some point, depending on how they feel about Drake Thomas and Josh Ross.
- Speaking of iLB's, I'm looking forward to seeing D'Eryk Jackson in the preseason. He has good speed and can run and hit. He might be one of the UDFA's that pop early.
- That we will see a lot of Milroe in the preseason is hardly a hot take. And normally a 3rd round rookie will struggle a bit early on. I think he'll look better than expected. More poised, more polished than many likely expect. I think the 'buzz' for this kid will build quickly. He's not a threat to Darnold this year, but I think he'll build enough trust with Kubiak that he'll see the field in games.
- I've read that many folks are expecting the defense to look well ahead of the offense, at least early in camp. I think the offense will look very competitive as soon as the pads come on. The only thing holding them back early on will be the juggling on the o-line. Once that gets sorted out (and it seems like MacDonald is keen on having that sorted out sooner than later) I think they will more than hold their own against the defense......which will be good for the defense.
- I've already mentioned Arroyo and Milroe, but I also think Emmanwori and Zabel will solidify themselves early. They will make mistakes, but like Knight last year, they will steadily improve. If these 4 are good in year 1, watch out next year.
Totally think Arroyo is perfect for Kubiaks scheme (to the extent I understand it), but I think Bradford will surprise us (in a good way). He showed up in camp pretty buff...put in some off season (as if there was such a thing) work. Possibly a break-out season for Bradford. In any case, play the best five should be gospel (ie: Byron Murphy III should be our short yardage FB right?).
A little off topic here. I was listening to Wyman & Bob today heaping praise on Lock and talking about how Darnold seems to be hesitant in getting the ball out at the first practice today. Something I think that is important to consider is who these guys are facing. If Darnold is primarily facing the 1s and Lock is primarily facing the 2s, as one would expect, then you simply can't make this kind of comparison. The Seahawks starting defense is really really good, and the level of competition change from the 1s to the 2s is significant. Same for Milroe. He could look brilliant out there, but if the guys he is playing against are going to be hunting for practice squad slots around the league, or sitting on the couch otherwise, it doesn't really matter how good he looks unless he looks that way against the 1s. Perspective is important.
O-LINE Battles…. Back on June 13th SSJ wrote an article titled “Position Battle Primer.” You mentioned the battle at center between Olu and Sundell, and the battle at RG between Bradford/Haynes/Laumea. I commented the important thing is that we put our five best O-linemen out there. If Olu is one of them, then Sundell needs to be in the battle at RG as I feel he could realistically be one of the five best linemen as well. Today Sundell took significant snaps at RG and some at Center. This seemed to surprise many of the people reporting on the practice, but I am glad to see it. I feel good we will get the best 5 out there on the field. I’ve commented before that Sundell should have been the starting right guard after his performance in the Green Bay game last year where he came in for an injured Olu and looked better against a very good Green Bay front that either Bradford/Haynes or Laumea looked all year against anyone.
Prediction 1 … K9 looked healthy and strong today. If he can stay healthy, we may not see him in the preseason games, but he will rock in a big way this season and help propel the Seahawks to the NFC west title and a strong playoff performance.
Prediction 2 … Horton looks healthy and I predict he will look so good MVS does not make the final 53.
Prediction 3 … Klint Kubiak is going to be fine, mighty fine. 2400+ rushing yards this year and a very effective ball control offense that will complement a top notch defense.
Prediction 4 … Milroe will look like 6 million dollars in preseason games. Lock will look like a million, and Darnold will have the system down and ready to give the 49ers a beating in week 1
Prediction 5 …. In his press conference today MM gave the impression he expects to contend for a championship this year. I know that could be labeled as coach speak, but J Reed made similar comments in his interview, as did Ernest Jones. If the coaches and team BELIEVE they’re Super Bowl contenders, I’m getting on that bus. Don’t be left behind!
Regarding prediction 5 - The Seahawks have been given the worst odds in the NFC west to win the Super Bowl - Yes! Worse than the Cardinals! This could be a fun year to take those 60-1 odds.
According to Locked On, Forever Seahawks, and Hawkblogger, Horton took a lot of snaps at slot (so maybe he and MVS are not mutually exclusive or maybe Cody White has a shot outside) and confirmed your note that Sundell played a lot of RG. They also said MM stated they will have players set in their positions (not depth chart or starting decisions) by next week. Of course, that doesn't mean the players couldn't move in a pinch or in packages, just their main spots will be done so they can work the rest of practices focused on getting better at that main position.
You’re probably right and MVS makes the 53. I just didn’t like seeing Horton listed on the bubble and MVS as a lock. Horton is truly not a 5th rounder. All three of his college seasons should have been 1000+ yard seasons if not for the injury, and the injury is looking as if he’s close to being fully recovered. I also think Bobo is going to benefit from kubiak’s system due to his blocking and Ty route running. They needed MVS to stretch the field, but Horton can do that as well, has much better hands, is a better route runner, and has a higher ceiling. He’ll never make it through waivers. He’s a lock, and I’ve overreacted to an expert’s prediction that he’s on the bubble. He should have rated him as likely to make the roster and I could have lived with it.
I must be a homer because I feel good about the Seahawks and where they are going however a lot of sports columnists have Seattle sucking. I hope they are wrong
I have three burning training camp questions: Will Horton bet out MVS as the deep threat? Or, will the Hawks keep both with MVS taking kicks? Two will Arroyo become the sideline-contested catch go to or an intermediate TE? And like everyone else who wins the starting job for Center and RG.
I cannot wait to see Robbie Ouzts lead blocking for K-9. My BOLD prediction (not really considering the lack of competition), is he makes an All-Pro team in his first couple years. Kyle Juszczyk and Patrick Ricard are heading into their age 34 and 31 seasons respectively. Who says Ouzts can't take their place at the top of the FB pyramid? Could he be the first Seahawk All-Pro since Bobby?
Kenneth, could you research and report on Jarran Reed at NT? Hankins gets the talk but isn't Jarran our starting NT? Looks like he has put on 15/20 lbs of muscle. The roster lists him as such, also showing Murphy moving to 3-Tech. Thx!
Let's talk about pass catchers. Not WRs, but all pass catchers. I think Arroyo is the #2 target in this offense. It might not happen right away, but that's the plan right now. JS knew he needed to add a young receiver in the draft and he chose Arroyo. Then he ignored the WR position until the 5th round, where Horton should not have still been available (according to most draft pundits). He fell into our laps. We'd all be thrilled if Horton tuns out to be the steel of the draft and becomes a solid outside receiver. However, Arroyo is the guy we should be betting on to demand targets in this offense, because that's who the front office bet on. They doubled down on that bet by letting Fant go.
It doesn't matter who wins the 5th or 6th WR roster spot, or if Horton is better than MVS, or if we get more Bobo, or if Kupp still has anything left in the tank. The most important new addition to the offense not named "Sam," is Arroyo.
I find it fascinating how many people think the Seahawks signed a washed up receiver for $45m.
Yeah, and please don't get me wrong, I don't think Kupp is washed up. I think he'll be the #2 guy this season, and especially valuable early on as the offense gels. I also think MVS is going to be a better role player than most give him credit for. It wouldn't surprise me if he leads the team in receiving TDs. I also think Bobo is a lock to make the roster. I'm really excited about our receivers! But... if the Arroyo bet hits, this offense transforms in a way that no other player can duplicate.
Question: Who is our depth at LB? I’m ecstatic with the Jones extension at the price we got him for, and Knight can only be better in his 2nd yr, so I’m delighted with them. But if one (or both😳) go down, who do we have? Still can’t believe we let Greenlaw get away so cheaply…
Prediction: We’re going to be anxious about our offense the entire pre-season. New everything, and up against a better defense than they’re going to face most of the schedule. QB and OL the double-anxious
“Burning through my brain” question: Do we finally have a good OL (players/scheme/coaching). If we do, the running game will be effective and an average to even below-avg QB room can be effective. If not, we better get used to Myers and Dickson competing for 2025 Seahawks MVP. More than ever, I fear this season rides on the broad shoulders of the OL
In response to the LB depth, I think MM really likes Josh Ross as the backup Mike. He was the starting MLB for Michigan when MM was the DC, and he was a backup for Roquan Smith in Baltimore. We know the strong affinity Macdonald has for the inside linebacker position, and I think he hand picked Ross as the backup when he was waived from the Ravens last year.
As for the Will, I'm a little less concerned. It seems to be a less "heady" position then the Mike in this scheme. Put a good athlete there who likes to hunt downfield, and they can make do.
No shot Greenlaw would have signed as a backup. He wanted the chance to start, and the Broncos offered that.
So Ross for Jones, and maybe Emmanwori for Knight?
Honestly, yeah I could see it. I remember before cutting him, the Seahawks asked Jamal Adams to move to LB. Maybe they have a similar backup plan for Emmanwori if Knight goes down.
MM has said he wasnts the OL locked early in training camp, so I think we'll know what that looks like at some point next week.
My HOPE is that nobody gets hurt.
My expectation is that we'll see nothing but plain vanilla from offense and defense until the games start counting. The fanbase might get restive, especially if Darnold doesn't do anything spectacular (and he probably won't, because that's probably not what he's working on just now), but both KK and MM thrive on misdirection and concealment.
My guess is that we'll see at least one player added before the season begins. They have the cap space, and MM has shown a willingness to change what does not work as quickly as possible. Not in any order, but I wouldn't be surprised to see us add an inside LB, or a NT, or an X receiver. That last one I know people are worried about, I'm not entirely convinced Kubiak's offense needs one, or that he can't finesse his way around it.
Let's remember that it took half a season to get the D clicking last year, and let's extend that courtesy to Kubiak as well.
"My HOPE is that nobody gets hurt." ... this.
My questions/thoughts/expectations....
- Sundell wins a spot, either at center or RG. He's a little light to be a bully, but I don't think this is a bully offense. It's a run and get to your spot, setup your angle, and get to your guy. I think this plays into what he does best.
- After Sundell, I'm not confident in who will win the other open spot. I don't think it will be Bradford. After the pads come on things will, as Mike MacDonald phrases it, declare themselves.
- If you look at the 90 man roster, look at that list of WR's (12 of them!). Holy smoke! Competition indeed. Horton will be on the 53 barring injury, as of course will JSN and Kupp. MVS, although perhaps not a lock, will likely be. After that who knows. Bobo has a great shot due to his special teams play and very good blocking ability (which is a must for Kubiak). But Bobo will be pushed hard by other options.
- Back to Horton, he may not be competing with MVS at all for a roster spot. If they see him as more of a flanker (rather than an x receiver) then he may get used quite differently. We'll see in preseason.
- I'll predict that Arroyo is a revelation right from the jump. You'll see a lot of him in preseason. He's a 250 lb problem, with speed and hands and YAC ability. Expect to read a lot about him as the practices ramp up.
- iLB is still a question for me after Jones and Knight. I could see a move there at some point, depending on how they feel about Drake Thomas and Josh Ross.
- Speaking of iLB's, I'm looking forward to seeing D'Eryk Jackson in the preseason. He has good speed and can run and hit. He might be one of the UDFA's that pop early.
- That we will see a lot of Milroe in the preseason is hardly a hot take. And normally a 3rd round rookie will struggle a bit early on. I think he'll look better than expected. More poised, more polished than many likely expect. I think the 'buzz' for this kid will build quickly. He's not a threat to Darnold this year, but I think he'll build enough trust with Kubiak that he'll see the field in games.
- I've read that many folks are expecting the defense to look well ahead of the offense, at least early in camp. I think the offense will look very competitive as soon as the pads come on. The only thing holding them back early on will be the juggling on the o-line. Once that gets sorted out (and it seems like MacDonald is keen on having that sorted out sooner than later) I think they will more than hold their own against the defense......which will be good for the defense.
- I've already mentioned Arroyo and Milroe, but I also think Emmanwori and Zabel will solidify themselves early. They will make mistakes, but like Knight last year, they will steadily improve. If these 4 are good in year 1, watch out next year.
Totally think Arroyo is perfect for Kubiaks scheme (to the extent I understand it), but I think Bradford will surprise us (in a good way). He showed up in camp pretty buff...put in some off season (as if there was such a thing) work. Possibly a break-out season for Bradford. In any case, play the best five should be gospel (ie: Byron Murphy III should be our short yardage FB right?).
I'm excited to see how the TE position shakes out, and I would love for us to find a quality kick/punt returner somehow
A little off topic here. I was listening to Wyman & Bob today heaping praise on Lock and talking about how Darnold seems to be hesitant in getting the ball out at the first practice today. Something I think that is important to consider is who these guys are facing. If Darnold is primarily facing the 1s and Lock is primarily facing the 2s, as one would expect, then you simply can't make this kind of comparison. The Seahawks starting defense is really really good, and the level of competition change from the 1s to the 2s is significant. Same for Milroe. He could look brilliant out there, but if the guys he is playing against are going to be hunting for practice squad slots around the league, or sitting on the couch otherwise, it doesn't really matter how good he looks unless he looks that way against the 1s. Perspective is important.
Pure hot take here on the 53 man starting OL (backup) -- (don't ask me if I really believe this will happen)
LT - Charles Cross (Jones)
LG - Grey Zabel (Laumea)
C - Christian Haynes (Sundell)
RG - Bryce Cabeldue (Laumea)
RT - Abraham Lucas (Jerrell)
Olu and Bradford released. Richman to PS
O-LINE Battles…. Back on June 13th SSJ wrote an article titled “Position Battle Primer.” You mentioned the battle at center between Olu and Sundell, and the battle at RG between Bradford/Haynes/Laumea. I commented the important thing is that we put our five best O-linemen out there. If Olu is one of them, then Sundell needs to be in the battle at RG as I feel he could realistically be one of the five best linemen as well. Today Sundell took significant snaps at RG and some at Center. This seemed to surprise many of the people reporting on the practice, but I am glad to see it. I feel good we will get the best 5 out there on the field. I’ve commented before that Sundell should have been the starting right guard after his performance in the Green Bay game last year where he came in for an injured Olu and looked better against a very good Green Bay front that either Bradford/Haynes or Laumea looked all year against anyone.
Prediction 1 … K9 looked healthy and strong today. If he can stay healthy, we may not see him in the preseason games, but he will rock in a big way this season and help propel the Seahawks to the NFC west title and a strong playoff performance.
Prediction 2 … Horton looks healthy and I predict he will look so good MVS does not make the final 53.
Prediction 3 … Klint Kubiak is going to be fine, mighty fine. 2400+ rushing yards this year and a very effective ball control offense that will complement a top notch defense.
Prediction 4 … Milroe will look like 6 million dollars in preseason games. Lock will look like a million, and Darnold will have the system down and ready to give the 49ers a beating in week 1
Prediction 5 …. In his press conference today MM gave the impression he expects to contend for a championship this year. I know that could be labeled as coach speak, but J Reed made similar comments in his interview, as did Ernest Jones. If the coaches and team BELIEVE they’re Super Bowl contenders, I’m getting on that bus. Don’t be left behind!
Regarding prediction 5 - The Seahawks have been given the worst odds in the NFC west to win the Super Bowl - Yes! Worse than the Cardinals! This could be a fun year to take those 60-1 odds.
If I were a gambling man, I’d take the Seahawks, but I’m not. My vices are wine, women and song. Just kidding….
According to Locked On, Forever Seahawks, and Hawkblogger, Horton took a lot of snaps at slot (so maybe he and MVS are not mutually exclusive or maybe Cody White has a shot outside) and confirmed your note that Sundell played a lot of RG. They also said MM stated they will have players set in their positions (not depth chart or starting decisions) by next week. Of course, that doesn't mean the players couldn't move in a pinch or in packages, just their main spots will be done so they can work the rest of practices focused on getting better at that main position.
You’re probably right and MVS makes the 53. I just didn’t like seeing Horton listed on the bubble and MVS as a lock. Horton is truly not a 5th rounder. All three of his college seasons should have been 1000+ yard seasons if not for the injury, and the injury is looking as if he’s close to being fully recovered. I also think Bobo is going to benefit from kubiak’s system due to his blocking and Ty route running. They needed MVS to stretch the field, but Horton can do that as well, has much better hands, is a better route runner, and has a higher ceiling. He’ll never make it through waivers. He’s a lock, and I’ve overreacted to an expert’s prediction that he’s on the bubble. He should have rated him as likely to make the roster and I could have lived with it.
Thanks for the in-person update Danno. Love it!
I must be a homer because I feel good about the Seahawks and where they are going however a lot of sports columnists have Seattle sucking. I hope they are wrong
Trust that they are wrong and you won't go wrong.
i'm hoping the new coaches prove to be significant upgrades from what we're used to. it would be great to see a healthy and productive o-line.