I just watch the lads podcast and listened to the Apple podcast that another reader posted. I thought it was really interesting that 3 or 4 unbiased analysts said that Geno plays QB the way it’s designed. He doesn’t improvise as well as Mahomes, Allen, prime Russ, but just does everything right. They even mentioned that the INT are almost a feature of the pressure the offense is putting on defenses and that occasionally a DB will guess right. Both casts had Geno in the top 10 range for QBs, right now, even with INT.
I always thought the OC didn’t matter much to Russ because he was going to blow up any play and then improvise (over simplifying it, I know) and maybe we’re finally seeing how a designed offense is supposed to work. I’m still not sure if Geno being top 10 means he’s better than expected or that QB play just sucks right now throughout The NFL. But whatever the case may be it sounds like folks who watch a lot more NFL than me think the Hawks are legit 2nd tier team and trending the right way. Let’s hope that continues throughout the season.
Another Great Post! Thank you for all the links, greatly appreciated. Putting in something on the O-line /link is Wonderful, at least from my perspective!
WOW! After watching the O-line committee podcast, How GREAT is that! Don't know how I never knew about that? Just a quick retro -boot , ever get the chance to watch film on Seattle's O-line with W.Jones. -Hutch -Toebeck-Gray and Sean Locklear ( the weak link ,but still Ok) ,an O-line that stayed reasonably healthy and had feel for the unit, was what you want in your O-line- Seriously one on the best O-lines around!
This is exactly how I feel about the offense and Geno. Its great to see some others starting to recognize what's going on in Seattle. For all the Geno naysayers ... take a listen and keep an open mind.
I listened Mike, and I heard a lot of praise for Waldron's schemes and play designs but they skipped right past the "red zone woes and 3rd down" as being "unlucky" to which I want to say, "C'mon Man!"
There is no question Geno has had stretches of good play, and to his credit he did get the ball in the EZ on the final attempt last week, but there has been too much poor execution by Geno to ignore. I take the point that sometimes over-aggressiveness leads to INTs and that same aggressiveness also allows you to make plays but... forcing the ball when there are good alternatives, not seeing the field... THAT is a problem. And Geno even admits it! He himself says that he is missing opportunities and needs to play better!
The key for me is that to really unlock the potential of Waldron's schemes and the A+ personnel (DK, JSN, Lockett, Bobo are the best WR group in the NFL; Chabs and K9 probably the best RB combo; the TE room is ++ too!) you just need some consistently better execution--from Geno. If the Seahawks get that, this offense has the ability to bury other teams. I want to see THAT Geno!
These videos are great. But, Fant was giving me the feeling that he is ready to leave. Both to get paid and to become a bigger part of an offense. That will be interesting to see what happens there in the off-season.
Watching Simms, it reminds me that a lot of the more prominent analysts and talking heads just haven't seen every team in depth enough to really know what they are talking about. Simms has taken a cursory look at our Hawks, but not enough to know who really is playing well and who isn't (or what their names really are). I would venture to say that most of these guys are just creating content online and marketing themselves.
Being honest, as much as i'll back up the concept of "if you don't know, don't say" in theory - i wouldn't watch a pundit like that. However that doesn't stop a network/programme going and getting a good pundit who does know and does do in depth research. Name recognition goes an awful awful long way in media, otherwise we'd have some of the above guys on mainstream NFL shows and networks wouldn't fall over themselves trying to sign Brady to the booth.
Watching Simms, it reminds me that a lot of the more prominent analysts and talking heads just haven't seen every team in depth enough to really know what they are talking about. Simms has taken a cursory look at our Hawks, but not enough to know who really is playing well and who isn't (or what their names really are). I would venture to say that most of these guys are just creating content online and marketing themselves.
After watching these, I must say I have to adjust my position on Shane and Noah Fant. Shane was called out for good schemes by most every review, and they walked me through why on the tape. Same for Fant as a blocker. Apparently, he IS a good blocker, and he DOES like playing here. So, maybe we can resign him. We'll see how much of all that translates into salary negotiation.
I have watched Dave Wyman for a long time--he is better with a whiteboard lol. Not a great podcaster BUT he talks about "players, formatons, plays" and that is where I get that the play design is not usually the problem when a play fails. Shane knows play design and I am sure that Geno always has options when he comes out of the huddle. The execution of the play design is just so important!
The opening two drives vs Cleveland... both TDs. Those were based on a game script with plays that were practiced heavily the week before. But when the other team adjusts you have to run plays that maybe haven't been practised as heavily, but you still need to execute.
I absolutely LOVE these. I learned a lot and I just spent a couple of hours being truly entertained. Loved the breakdown by McCoy about the different plays run out of the 13 personnel package in pistol formation. JT O’Sullivan had mentioned that alignment several weeks ago and stated he just didn’t get what Waldron was doing. McCoy was good in showing what has been accomplished and how the Seahawks are the only ones doing it. And how it’s working most of the time.
Nov 2, 2023·edited Nov 2, 2023Liked by Seaside Joe
Those first three were all good (that All-22 tape has some great custom lead-in graphics) but the O-Line Committee was the most entertaining that I watched. That commentary is pure gold! I tend to listen to podcasts because I can do other things while listening, watching film definitely requires focused attention, but those were all good.
I was excited by Waldron coming to Seattle because I wanted that prime McVay-era magic of using a single formation/play to do many different things, so Colt McCoy featuring the same formation from four different games and showing all the filthy ways it was used was the best. Also nice hearing some independent opinions on Geno. They didn't break down or discuss his bad plays, god knows there are those, but the fandom echo chamber is such a fucking drag.
It's like last year when it felt like everyone was calling for firing Clint Hurtt by October even though they'd just installed a complex new scheme while knowing they didn't have all the right players for it (it's just reality, changing schemes is always to the detriment of personnel). Nothing has changed about Clint Hurtt but now he has better personnel that fit what they want to do and shocking news, but I have not seen or heard a negative word about Hurtt in over a month. They still have their issues (3rd down is a big one) but it's nothing like last year.
Film companies, food companies, fashion companies - all companies pay for positive reviews! It should be no secret, if you see anyone saying good things about something on any social media platform you have to assume it's paid for. Now, there are tons and tons of independent and reliable critics and influencers. You've just got to dig a little bit and keep your mind open when listening to others.
Just like watching someone else disect tape. Don't just take what they say at face value, try and follow through what they are saying to the action on screen, to learn and understand what is actually going on. Especially jumping from the All22 to McCoy is a real contrast, watching our RB's pop-off quite so much and then watching a "good" offensive game plan that only ran ~15 times against a weak open field tackling defence. Waldron seems to garner a lot of support and positivity but it doesn't translate to the field in a consistent manner. I'm tying to watch more Xs&Os stuff to get it but i'm struggling and will remain sceptical for a while of Waldron.
The inconsistency is definitely a concern with Waldron's playcalling but he does scheme up some fun stuff and when it works, it works. I think Waldron's play sequencing can be problematic at times but there's likely multiple things impacting his decisions as the game plays out. For instance, they admitted they saw things with the Browns coverage that implied they could exploit the pass but they didn't make any adjustments there at the half, which mired them into more of a hole as things progressed through the 3rd quarter.
This offense starts games so strong, Waldron needs to figure out how to carry over his scripted scheming further into the game.
I'm finding i think it's the difference between scheming - of which Waldron is good, and play calling - of which Waldron i don't think is good.
The best Teams, the Superbowl contending teams, are able to either adapt their schemes and calls or have the players of a calibre to overcome defensive adjustments. 'Hawks with Waldron seem mostly unable to adapt, and we don't have a total gamebreaker on the offence (yet - time for JSN & Walker/Charbs to come through to that catagory).
That's why I am in favour of, after a few seasons now, trying someone else at OC who can adapt - because the odds of getting a gamebreaker over Geno are slim, so lets try to help him for now.
I don't think Geno will be with this team long-term but having an OC who is actively helping the QB throughout the game is definitely important. I don't feel qualified to judge the OC's shortcomings vs the QB's, I'm not sure what is breaking down where. But it does look and feel like the Seahawks struggle to make adjustments at the half now vs some previous years. But I also like Waldron's play designs, and I think we can argue he has adapted his playbook to his personnel over time, which is a definite positive for me. I don't have a strong negative opinion about Waldron, he seems more progressive in his designs than either Bevell or Schotty were.
Notice how he is able to relate a line from a movie to his subject of any article, or the lyrics of a song. He obviously has a memory that outsizes any I have ever seen! Amazing talent.
There is so much content here that my brain has already been broken even though I haven't clicked but one link. I don't know if this comment will be redundant or deemed ignorant but Seattle's running back combinations, K9/Charbs/and DD selectively, should in my view get more calls, partly as a hedge against Geno making as many throwing mistakes as he is clearly vulnerable to making. If that makes him more of a game manager so be it .This will force CBs and safeties to play closer, opening up big chunk plays for the very capable receiving corps.
Remember that Geno likely has two plays he can choose from at the line. Colt McCoy shows how they ran the ball in what looked like a passing formation with M2M coverage identified--it was in the Browns game last week when Geno was having difficulty passing against the Browns coverage. But yeah, with K9 and Charbs, run the ball more! And that 3 TE set is a bit gimmicky but the Seahawks have put on tape inside run/screen pass/sweep out of that formation so do THAT more.
Love this, and I have only watched the first two videos so far (work!!).
But when I see people criticizing Shane Waldron's play designs or calls, I will now refer them to this thread. The play designs are great, the execution at times, not so much. Colt McCoy's comment at the end "Geno just has to play a little bit better... Shane is giving him the answers to the test..." Yes, that feels right to me.
In the first video it is very cool to see A Raven's site break down the Seahawk's offense and show how dangerous it is. #Respect.
J.T. was not nearly as critical as the last breakdown of Geno he did, though. He had quite a few examples of good decisions, athletic plays, and mechanics. Some things he praised, I hadn't even really noticed in the game. So, I think his criticisms were fair, but so were his praises. I didn't count them, but it felt like he had a few more good things than bad things to call out. Which puts Geno kinda where we thought, above average, not the top-tier
If "Good Geno" can just put "Bad Geno" in a box somewhere... the offense would be running so much better. With better decision making/execution the offense would be top 5. The talent is there.
Perfectly true, but if a Bull Frog had wings it wouldn't be bumping his ass on the ground all the time. The Bull Frog doesn't and Geno can't, although good coaching absolutely wouldn't help a Bull Frog.
I just watch the lads podcast and listened to the Apple podcast that another reader posted. I thought it was really interesting that 3 or 4 unbiased analysts said that Geno plays QB the way it’s designed. He doesn’t improvise as well as Mahomes, Allen, prime Russ, but just does everything right. They even mentioned that the INT are almost a feature of the pressure the offense is putting on defenses and that occasionally a DB will guess right. Both casts had Geno in the top 10 range for QBs, right now, even with INT.
I always thought the OC didn’t matter much to Russ because he was going to blow up any play and then improvise (over simplifying it, I know) and maybe we’re finally seeing how a designed offense is supposed to work. I’m still not sure if Geno being top 10 means he’s better than expected or that QB play just sucks right now throughout The NFL. But whatever the case may be it sounds like folks who watch a lot more NFL than me think the Hawks are legit 2nd tier team and trending the right way. Let’s hope that continues throughout the season.
Another Great Post! Thank you for all the links, greatly appreciated. Putting in something on the O-line /link is Wonderful, at least from my perspective!
WOW! After watching the O-line committee podcast, How GREAT is that! Don't know how I never knew about that? Just a quick retro -boot , ever get the chance to watch film on Seattle's O-line with W.Jones. -Hutch -Toebeck-Gray and Sean Locklear ( the weak link ,but still Ok) ,an O-line that stayed reasonably healthy and had feel for the unit, was what you want in your O-line- Seriously one on the best O-lines around!
Clint, it you are indeed a Seasider and are reading this, you're not allowed to leave us until you help bring home the Lombardi Trophy.
Here is an independent opinion (The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL) on Geno Smith and the offense (minute 47):
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-athletic-football-show-a-show-about-the-nfl/id1528622068?i=1000633546626
This is exactly how I feel about the offense and Geno. Its great to see some others starting to recognize what's going on in Seattle. For all the Geno naysayers ... take a listen and keep an open mind.
We can absolutely win the SB with Geno. Go Hawks
I listened Mike, and I heard a lot of praise for Waldron's schemes and play designs but they skipped right past the "red zone woes and 3rd down" as being "unlucky" to which I want to say, "C'mon Man!"
There is no question Geno has had stretches of good play, and to his credit he did get the ball in the EZ on the final attempt last week, but there has been too much poor execution by Geno to ignore. I take the point that sometimes over-aggressiveness leads to INTs and that same aggressiveness also allows you to make plays but... forcing the ball when there are good alternatives, not seeing the field... THAT is a problem. And Geno even admits it! He himself says that he is missing opportunities and needs to play better!
The key for me is that to really unlock the potential of Waldron's schemes and the A+ personnel (DK, JSN, Lockett, Bobo are the best WR group in the NFL; Chabs and K9 probably the best RB combo; the TE room is ++ too!) you just need some consistently better execution--from Geno. If the Seahawks get that, this offense has the ability to bury other teams. I want to see THAT Geno!
These videos are great. But, Fant was giving me the feeling that he is ready to leave. Both to get paid and to become a bigger part of an offense. That will be interesting to see what happens there in the off-season.
Thanks for the Broey Deschanel video on film criticism. Super interesting and she looks like a real interesting person. Subscribed to her channel.
Watching Simms, it reminds me that a lot of the more prominent analysts and talking heads just haven't seen every team in depth enough to really know what they are talking about. Simms has taken a cursory look at our Hawks, but not enough to know who really is playing well and who isn't (or what their names really are). I would venture to say that most of these guys are just creating content online and marketing themselves.
Simms often has opinions on things he seems woefully unfamiliar with. I guess when you get paid to talk, you have to say something.
Being honest, as much as i'll back up the concept of "if you don't know, don't say" in theory - i wouldn't watch a pundit like that. However that doesn't stop a network/programme going and getting a good pundit who does know and does do in depth research. Name recognition goes an awful awful long way in media, otherwise we'd have some of the above guys on mainstream NFL shows and networks wouldn't fall over themselves trying to sign Brady to the booth.
Watching Simms, it reminds me that a lot of the more prominent analysts and talking heads just haven't seen every team in depth enough to really know what they are talking about. Simms has taken a cursory look at our Hawks, but not enough to know who really is playing well and who isn't (or what their names really are). I would venture to say that most of these guys are just creating content online and marketing themselves.
After watching these, I must say I have to adjust my position on Shane and Noah Fant. Shane was called out for good schemes by most every review, and they walked me through why on the tape. Same for Fant as a blocker. Apparently, he IS a good blocker, and he DOES like playing here. So, maybe we can resign him. We'll see how much of all that translates into salary negotiation.
I have watched Dave Wyman for a long time--he is better with a whiteboard lol. Not a great podcaster BUT he talks about "players, formatons, plays" and that is where I get that the play design is not usually the problem when a play fails. Shane knows play design and I am sure that Geno always has options when he comes out of the huddle. The execution of the play design is just so important!
The opening two drives vs Cleveland... both TDs. Those were based on a game script with plays that were practiced heavily the week before. But when the other team adjusts you have to run plays that maybe haven't been practised as heavily, but you still need to execute.
I absolutely LOVE these. I learned a lot and I just spent a couple of hours being truly entertained. Loved the breakdown by McCoy about the different plays run out of the 13 personnel package in pistol formation. JT O’Sullivan had mentioned that alignment several weeks ago and stated he just didn’t get what Waldron was doing. McCoy was good in showing what has been accomplished and how the Seahawks are the only ones doing it. And how it’s working most of the time.
The Oline video was hysterical at times.
Good stuff SSJ. Keep it up!
The O-line guys are my new favorite.
Just a head's up... Spoon just won defensive rookie of the month
'Spoon feed me!
Those first three were all good (that All-22 tape has some great custom lead-in graphics) but the O-Line Committee was the most entertaining that I watched. That commentary is pure gold! I tend to listen to podcasts because I can do other things while listening, watching film definitely requires focused attention, but those were all good.
I was excited by Waldron coming to Seattle because I wanted that prime McVay-era magic of using a single formation/play to do many different things, so Colt McCoy featuring the same formation from four different games and showing all the filthy ways it was used was the best. Also nice hearing some independent opinions on Geno. They didn't break down or discuss his bad plays, god knows there are those, but the fandom echo chamber is such a fucking drag.
It's like last year when it felt like everyone was calling for firing Clint Hurtt by October even though they'd just installed a complex new scheme while knowing they didn't have all the right players for it (it's just reality, changing schemes is always to the detriment of personnel). Nothing has changed about Clint Hurtt but now he has better personnel that fit what they want to do and shocking news, but I have not seen or heard a negative word about Hurtt in over a month. They still have their issues (3rd down is a big one) but it's nothing like last year.
Film companies, food companies, fashion companies - all companies pay for positive reviews! It should be no secret, if you see anyone saying good things about something on any social media platform you have to assume it's paid for. Now, there are tons and tons of independent and reliable critics and influencers. You've just got to dig a little bit and keep your mind open when listening to others.
Just like watching someone else disect tape. Don't just take what they say at face value, try and follow through what they are saying to the action on screen, to learn and understand what is actually going on. Especially jumping from the All22 to McCoy is a real contrast, watching our RB's pop-off quite so much and then watching a "good" offensive game plan that only ran ~15 times against a weak open field tackling defence. Waldron seems to garner a lot of support and positivity but it doesn't translate to the field in a consistent manner. I'm tying to watch more Xs&Os stuff to get it but i'm struggling and will remain sceptical for a while of Waldron.
The inconsistency is definitely a concern with Waldron's playcalling but he does scheme up some fun stuff and when it works, it works. I think Waldron's play sequencing can be problematic at times but there's likely multiple things impacting his decisions as the game plays out. For instance, they admitted they saw things with the Browns coverage that implied they could exploit the pass but they didn't make any adjustments there at the half, which mired them into more of a hole as things progressed through the 3rd quarter.
This offense starts games so strong, Waldron needs to figure out how to carry over his scripted scheming further into the game.
I'm finding i think it's the difference between scheming - of which Waldron is good, and play calling - of which Waldron i don't think is good.
The best Teams, the Superbowl contending teams, are able to either adapt their schemes and calls or have the players of a calibre to overcome defensive adjustments. 'Hawks with Waldron seem mostly unable to adapt, and we don't have a total gamebreaker on the offence (yet - time for JSN & Walker/Charbs to come through to that catagory).
That's why I am in favour of, after a few seasons now, trying someone else at OC who can adapt - because the odds of getting a gamebreaker over Geno are slim, so lets try to help him for now.
I don't think Geno will be with this team long-term but having an OC who is actively helping the QB throughout the game is definitely important. I don't feel qualified to judge the OC's shortcomings vs the QB's, I'm not sure what is breaking down where. But it does look and feel like the Seahawks struggle to make adjustments at the half now vs some previous years. But I also like Waldron's play designs, and I think we can argue he has adapted his playbook to his personnel over time, which is a definite positive for me. I don't have a strong negative opinion about Waldron, he seems more progressive in his designs than either Bevell or Schotty were.
Where do you find the time Joe?!
No kidding! I have no kids, a 40 hour a week job, and I'll still have a hard time catching all of these before gameday.
I'm retired mostly and barely have time to watch all of these videos, but I will try.
I'm retired, have lots of time and mostly just don't care to watch all the vid's.
Notice how he is able to relate a line from a movie to his subject of any article, or the lyrics of a song. He obviously has a memory that outsizes any I have ever seen! Amazing talent.
There is so much content here that my brain has already been broken even though I haven't clicked but one link. I don't know if this comment will be redundant or deemed ignorant but Seattle's running back combinations, K9/Charbs/and DD selectively, should in my view get more calls, partly as a hedge against Geno making as many throwing mistakes as he is clearly vulnerable to making. If that makes him more of a game manager so be it .This will force CBs and safeties to play closer, opening up big chunk plays for the very capable receiving corps.
Remember that Geno likely has two plays he can choose from at the line. Colt McCoy shows how they ran the ball in what looked like a passing formation with M2M coverage identified--it was in the Browns game last week when Geno was having difficulty passing against the Browns coverage. But yeah, with K9 and Charbs, run the ball more! And that 3 TE set is a bit gimmicky but the Seahawks have put on tape inside run/screen pass/sweep out of that formation so do THAT more.
Love this, and I have only watched the first two videos so far (work!!).
But when I see people criticizing Shane Waldron's play designs or calls, I will now refer them to this thread. The play designs are great, the execution at times, not so much. Colt McCoy's comment at the end "Geno just has to play a little bit better... Shane is giving him the answers to the test..." Yes, that feels right to me.
In the first video it is very cool to see A Raven's site break down the Seahawk's offense and show how dangerous it is. #Respect.
QB School is quite critical of Geno's misses.
J.T. was not nearly as critical as the last breakdown of Geno he did, though. He had quite a few examples of good decisions, athletic plays, and mechanics. Some things he praised, I hadn't even really noticed in the game. So, I think his criticisms were fair, but so were his praises. I didn't count them, but it felt like he had a few more good things than bad things to call out. Which puts Geno kinda where we thought, above average, not the top-tier
If "Good Geno" can just put "Bad Geno" in a box somewhere... the offense would be running so much better. With better decision making/execution the offense would be top 5. The talent is there.
Perfectly true, but if a Bull Frog had wings it wouldn't be bumping his ass on the ground all the time. The Bull Frog doesn't and Geno can't, although good coaching absolutely wouldn't help a Bull Frog.