Hawks lost the momentum and that's very hard to get back. My humble opinion is Geno is not the answer and McDonald and Grub need to get back to the basics.
The highest offseason priorities are to extend Charles Cross and to sign Ernest Jones.* Metcalf and Smith are both secondary to that.
Re DK, there’s no point in trading him for less than a second round pick. Otherwise, Seattle is better off with another year of him plus a compensatory pick if DK can actually command a 30M/yr contract on the open market.
Re Geno, he turned 34 on October 10. The case for extending him comes down to deferring next year’s 38.5M cap hit if that eases extending Cross and signing Jones. Otherwise, extending an at times very good but ultimately erratic QB who will be 35 next season doesn’t make much sense. BTW, Jake Browning is an RFA in 2026.
* I’d include signing a legit guard, but Trey Smith is the only notable FA and KC isn’t about to let him walk.
Eventually when the time is right to write about it, I think that the plan is definitely to extend Cross, keep Jones, and part ways with DK. The only place we disagree is that the Seahawks only have control with DK to an extent. If they don't trade him, as we saw with Brandon Aiyuk, it becomes this really big distraction and frankly I don't see DK as the type to suck it up and play out the season. That's just my opinion. I don't think he wants to take that risk and I would understand the hesitation because he could definitely sign for a lot of money IF he was a free agent. The problem, of course, is that contractual agreements in the NFL are not binding.
But then I think of him making really tough catches in traffic knowing that he’s going to get clobbered and see a guy who will suck it up if it comes to that.
But that might be wishful thinking. Even so, I just cannot see trading Metcalf for less than a second round pick.
I agree with MUCH of what has been said EXCEPT wanting to fire Grubb.
What rubs me raw is when we release a rookie early on because he's not quite keeping up, and then having him develop into a pro-bowler somewhere else and now have a bust in the Hall of Fame.
Grubb has extremely high pedigree and he has been cursed with an o-line that doesn't block well.
Years ago, I heard Pete Carroll say that, if he were to do it all over again, he would start with the offense, because it takes the longest to develop.
Macdonald has a 6-year contract, time enough to be both patient and involved in progress of the offense.
This is Grubb's 1st year at this level. All NFL rookies say that the hardest adjustment going from college to pro, is the speed of the game.
We are seeing steady improvement in spite of injuries, sudden retirement, and playing rookies and essentially 2 second-year men.
And your comparing first-year Grubb to 2nd-year Waldron above.
NO FAIR!
Besides, Waldren CAME from the NFL.
I'm sure that Mike Macdonald will be fair in re-evaluating everything at the end of the season and that major changes will happen at least to the tune of $100M, but I am hoping that Grubb has learned enough and done enough to stay on.
One positive sign is that Laumea (sp?) and Sundell played last night. Today's article mentioned that Carroll's regime never seemed to be able to develop linemen like Green Bay does. Maybe we're seeing that change right now.
We might be able to beat Minnesota, and we should have no trouble dispatching the Bears, but I am not sure that we have the horses to beat LA in LA this year.
I do know that the Seahawks are going to show up on Sunday, and at Ram's stadium at the season, but we already know that we're not up to Green Bay or Detroit this year.
DK will not be here next year. John will trade him. Geno is also going to be playing somewhere else. Don't hate me. I just see the writing on the wall.
looks like the real Seahawks on defense particularly may need to up their speed as far as the coming game with the Vikings goes; am watching the game against the Bears, via ESPN Gamecast (lost out on our streaming service) and noticing a lot of No-Huddle plays, particularly with TE Hockenson receiving for 10 yds at a clip ... may work against our shifts on defense unless those are scripted, am sure the coaches are watching all this, taking note of both Vikes and Bears; can't see everything on Gamecast (LOL) but sometimes the diagrams simplify part of the strategy
Thanks a lot, Candy Hughes! Didn't know about ESPN Gamecast. Looks good, certainly a lot better than just "seeing" plays, down and yards gained or lost.
I've been Geno's biggest fan. I'm the one chanting Ge-YES at games. He was legit bad in the Packers game. I don't know if it was just a bad day, but with the Vikings coming up and then a short week to the Bears, I just don't know if this team wins another game this season. The Rams still play tough. But hey -- we've already hit the 'over' for wins this season. It's all gravy from here.
I think for me the thing is, I understand liking Geno, I understand thinking Geno is a good quarterback, I understand wanting the Seahawks to keep Geno, and I even understand the argument that "It's not entirely Geno's fault that his numbers are bad". But what I don't understand is that the numbers -are- bad so the thing that befuddles me is when I see the panic tweets or articles "the seahawks better hurry up and re-sign geno!" Certainly the ideal situation would be to use the bad season as leverage to keep his contract right where it is and then if he so happens to have a great season in 2025 and the team really wants to keep him, the NFL is specifically designed to make sure they can because of the franchise tag.
Geno is a better quarterback than most backups and some starters. He is not a quarterback to lead a team to a Super Bowl. He is a step slow in reading the field and this causes him to make errors under pressure (14TDs vs 13 INTs). It is also a factor in his above average time to throw and his bottom three sack totals. A quick release is a must with this offensive line and Geno doesn't exhibit this quality. He will be 35 next season and there is no reason to think that he will improve. I would not extend him. I would try to sign a comparable free agent QB for a lot less money and use the savings to upgrade the offensive line. Justin Fields, Sam Darnold, and Jacoby Brissett may all be available at a reasonable salary and a draft pick or two should be spent. And while we are at it, I would sign a new Offensive Co-Ordinator as well.
The Not Ready For Primetime Seahawks showed up last night- Every phase they were bettered in- Starting with coaching! Last night has at least partially changed my mind on Geno- He should have never thrown that ball into the end zone Knowing where TL was and his coverage ( BUT, on instant replay there was a Blatant hold on Fant in the end zone, Horrible call, along with several others ,But not why they lost)! If there is any consolation, with eventual adjustments Most of the D started playing better. The One positive, Hear me out ( I know it didn't look like it last night) But I believe they have the makings of an O-line. Better coaching, a new LG next year and having the time to learn and acclimate to each other and I believe they can be decent! In some ways this game (ass kicking) might actually help against the Vikes. If they can win that game, there is still hope for added experience on this team this year into the playoffs. That will help next year!
"BUT, on instant replay there was a Blatant hold on Fant in the end zone, Horrible call, along with several others" Yeah, t'was a blatant PI, where were the refs? The ball would have been on the 1 yard line, 1st 'n goal. The adjustments of the D were quite good.
No on a contract extension for Geno. Have him play out his contract or trade him for the best deal you can get. Only idiots like the Falcons pay 45 million plus for an old QB who only made one playoff game.
As far as DK goes, see what you can get on the FA market cheaper with similar numbers.
Cut all the over priced dead weight ( Fant, D.Jones, Lockett, Nuwasu, P.Brown and possibly DK and Geno and ST coach Harbaugh) and use the cap space to rebuild the Oline and bring in the players that fit the new system.
I always thought that an 8 and 9 or a 9 and 8 season was an excellent result for a new coaching staff working with mostly the old staffs personnel.
I think it is really hard to be worth more than $20M as a player, full stop. If a team needs to divide the salary between 65 players to make it through a season, and the cap is $260M, then the average player gets $4M. If you give $20M to one player now that 15M comes from dropping 4 other players to 3M below average. Just because a player is at a really important position doesn't mean the rest of the team can go by the wayside. I believe most players making over $20M are overpaid, because in a group of world class athlete's that is the NFL, being 4-5X better than the "average" player is almost impossible.
My question for this (forgot to include above) is: Has anyone ever broken down Super Bowl teams for what percentage of cap the top 5, 11 and 22 earners make, or separately how many of a SB team's top paid players fit under 50% of the cap? It feels to arbitrary for me as a normie who may not earn $20M in my lifetime to say which NFL players are and are not worth that. I feel like knowing that distribution would really change a lot of these discussions. Then the question becomes is DK worth being one of the 3 players who can more than 10% of the cap? My personal answer to that question is no, and I think if you extend that to QB's I think it can help explain for teambuilding why allocating one of those spots to your QB isn't always the clearest path to a winning roster.
I have definitely been thinking about this argument for 10-15 years. More and more, I'm just thinking that "average" or "median" or "typical" Super Bowl winners do not make good models for how to win a Super Bowl. The only thing I think for sure is that you gotta set yourself up to get the 1 seed. Especially the Seahawks because they're just so isolated. We've seen plenty of teams get 13 or 14 wins with mediocrity at QB, we've seen teams get 13 or 14 wins with elite QBs who are highly paid.
Going back to what you said though, I think there's a fair argument to be made that there's a limit to what a player should make under the salary cap, and almost every single team goes over it for bad investments.
Always tough to get down to what exactly the question is when talking about the cap. Because there is Average Per Year and then there is their actual cap hit that year.
But using the actuals for this year and maybe the 4 best teams in football:
Eagles: No active cap hits over $20M, Top 5 are Lane Johnson $16M, Hurts $14M, AJ Brown $12M, Mailata $12M, Slay $11M ... They have $22M in dead money to Reddick and $63M in total dead money
Lions: Goff at $27M, Next 4 are Ragnow $13M, Decker $11M, Sewell $8M, Zeitler 6M ... They have $35M in total dead money
Bills: Allen at $30M, Next 4 are Von MIller $15M, Milano $12M, Dawkins $12M, Ed Oliver $10M ... They have $31M in dead money to Diggs and $70M in total dead money
Chiefs: Mahomes at $37M, Next 4 are Thuney $27M, Kelce $20M, Jawaan Taylor $19M, Justin Reid 14M ... They have $14M in total dead money
Looking at first year cap hits can be incredibly misleading though as all NFL contracts are front end loaded. Which would be the case next year if they extend DK and/or Geno.
Right now DK may Beas valuable as a decor as a receiver. His double coverage makes things easier for Jan a njigba. This is Locket’s last season. Remove DK and locket and life is going to be tougher for the new guys.
First reaction, Sam Howell did not impress. Here’s my long winded question: A couple years ago the 49ers had a seismic shift at QB elevating Mr Irrelevant to QB1. Could John Rhys Plumlee be the Brock Purdy of the hawks?
DK is not worth $30mil, but some team will pay him close to that. It could be us, and it wouldn't immediately mean everything is lost either.
1-2 is acceptable. We're going to lose to the Vikings. We should beat the Bears but TNF does weird things. The Rams, we have to beat the Rams because it's the Rams. That will tell me we truly are in a new era of Hawks football.
Is 30-13 reflective? Too complicated for a yes/no. Would a PC team have turned a 20-3 first half into a 10-10 second? By any measure for any teams that's a great adjustment, even more so when your QB goes down! But we shouldn't ship 20pts like that, and our offense is just that bleh this year. Yes it's reflective but also it's not. Basically, as I keep saying this year, we're year 1 of a rebuild and that means good and bad times with a good amount of inconsistency.
Hawks lost the momentum and that's very hard to get back. My humble opinion is Geno is not the answer and McDonald and Grub need to get back to the basics.
The highest offseason priorities are to extend Charles Cross and to sign Ernest Jones.* Metcalf and Smith are both secondary to that.
Re DK, there’s no point in trading him for less than a second round pick. Otherwise, Seattle is better off with another year of him plus a compensatory pick if DK can actually command a 30M/yr contract on the open market.
Re Geno, he turned 34 on October 10. The case for extending him comes down to deferring next year’s 38.5M cap hit if that eases extending Cross and signing Jones. Otherwise, extending an at times very good but ultimately erratic QB who will be 35 next season doesn’t make much sense. BTW, Jake Browning is an RFA in 2026.
* I’d include signing a legit guard, but Trey Smith is the only notable FA and KC isn’t about to let him walk.
Eventually when the time is right to write about it, I think that the plan is definitely to extend Cross, keep Jones, and part ways with DK. The only place we disagree is that the Seahawks only have control with DK to an extent. If they don't trade him, as we saw with Brandon Aiyuk, it becomes this really big distraction and frankly I don't see DK as the type to suck it up and play out the season. That's just my opinion. I don't think he wants to take that risk and I would understand the hesitation because he could definitely sign for a lot of money IF he was a free agent. The problem, of course, is that contractual agreements in the NFL are not binding.
You may well be right re DK.
But then I think of him making really tough catches in traffic knowing that he’s going to get clobbered and see a guy who will suck it up if it comes to that.
But that might be wishful thinking. Even so, I just cannot see trading Metcalf for less than a second round pick.
It's a little early to refer to Howell as a career backup IMO.
I actually agree. Sometimes writing is like falling down a hill and you have no control.
Lol. You're a great writer, that's why I'm subscribed.
Peace out Mr. Seaside Joe.
Especially considering he is younger than Bo Nix and Penix.
It's a little early to be referring to Howell as a career backup IMO.
I agree with MUCH of what has been said EXCEPT wanting to fire Grubb.
What rubs me raw is when we release a rookie early on because he's not quite keeping up, and then having him develop into a pro-bowler somewhere else and now have a bust in the Hall of Fame.
Grubb has extremely high pedigree and he has been cursed with an o-line that doesn't block well.
Years ago, I heard Pete Carroll say that, if he were to do it all over again, he would start with the offense, because it takes the longest to develop.
Macdonald has a 6-year contract, time enough to be both patient and involved in progress of the offense.
This is Grubb's 1st year at this level. All NFL rookies say that the hardest adjustment going from college to pro, is the speed of the game.
We are seeing steady improvement in spite of injuries, sudden retirement, and playing rookies and essentially 2 second-year men.
And your comparing first-year Grubb to 2nd-year Waldron above.
NO FAIR!
Besides, Waldren CAME from the NFL.
I'm sure that Mike Macdonald will be fair in re-evaluating everything at the end of the season and that major changes will happen at least to the tune of $100M, but I am hoping that Grubb has learned enough and done enough to stay on.
One positive sign is that Laumea (sp?) and Sundell played last night. Today's article mentioned that Carroll's regime never seemed to be able to develop linemen like Green Bay does. Maybe we're seeing that change right now.
We might be able to beat Minnesota, and we should have no trouble dispatching the Bears, but I am not sure that we have the horses to beat LA in LA this year.
I do know that the Seahawks are going to show up on Sunday, and at Ram's stadium at the season, but we already know that we're not up to Green Bay or Detroit this year.
DK will not be here next year. John will trade him. Geno is also going to be playing somewhere else. Don't hate me. I just see the writing on the wall.
looks like the real Seahawks on defense particularly may need to up their speed as far as the coming game with the Vikings goes; am watching the game against the Bears, via ESPN Gamecast (lost out on our streaming service) and noticing a lot of No-Huddle plays, particularly with TE Hockenson receiving for 10 yds at a clip ... may work against our shifts on defense unless those are scripted, am sure the coaches are watching all this, taking note of both Vikes and Bears; can't see everything on Gamecast (LOL) but sometimes the diagrams simplify part of the strategy
Thanks a lot, Candy Hughes! Didn't know about ESPN Gamecast. Looks good, certainly a lot better than just "seeing" plays, down and yards gained or lost.
I've been Geno's biggest fan. I'm the one chanting Ge-YES at games. He was legit bad in the Packers game. I don't know if it was just a bad day, but with the Vikings coming up and then a short week to the Bears, I just don't know if this team wins another game this season. The Rams still play tough. But hey -- we've already hit the 'over' for wins this season. It's all gravy from here.
I think for me the thing is, I understand liking Geno, I understand thinking Geno is a good quarterback, I understand wanting the Seahawks to keep Geno, and I even understand the argument that "It's not entirely Geno's fault that his numbers are bad". But what I don't understand is that the numbers -are- bad so the thing that befuddles me is when I see the panic tweets or articles "the seahawks better hurry up and re-sign geno!" Certainly the ideal situation would be to use the bad season as leverage to keep his contract right where it is and then if he so happens to have a great season in 2025 and the team really wants to keep him, the NFL is specifically designed to make sure they can because of the franchise tag.
Geno is a better quarterback than most backups and some starters. He is not a quarterback to lead a team to a Super Bowl. He is a step slow in reading the field and this causes him to make errors under pressure (14TDs vs 13 INTs). It is also a factor in his above average time to throw and his bottom three sack totals. A quick release is a must with this offensive line and Geno doesn't exhibit this quality. He will be 35 next season and there is no reason to think that he will improve. I would not extend him. I would try to sign a comparable free agent QB for a lot less money and use the savings to upgrade the offensive line. Justin Fields, Sam Darnold, and Jacoby Brissett may all be available at a reasonable salary and a draft pick or two should be spent. And while we are at it, I would sign a new Offensive Co-Ordinator as well.
The Not Ready For Primetime Seahawks showed up last night- Every phase they were bettered in- Starting with coaching! Last night has at least partially changed my mind on Geno- He should have never thrown that ball into the end zone Knowing where TL was and his coverage ( BUT, on instant replay there was a Blatant hold on Fant in the end zone, Horrible call, along with several others ,But not why they lost)! If there is any consolation, with eventual adjustments Most of the D started playing better. The One positive, Hear me out ( I know it didn't look like it last night) But I believe they have the makings of an O-line. Better coaching, a new LG next year and having the time to learn and acclimate to each other and I believe they can be decent! In some ways this game (ass kicking) might actually help against the Vikes. If they can win that game, there is still hope for added experience on this team this year into the playoffs. That will help next year!
"BUT, on instant replay there was a Blatant hold on Fant in the end zone, Horrible call, along with several others" Yeah, t'was a blatant PI, where were the refs? The ball would have been on the 1 yard line, 1st 'n goal. The adjustments of the D were quite good.
No on a contract extension for Geno. Have him play out his contract or trade him for the best deal you can get. Only idiots like the Falcons pay 45 million plus for an old QB who only made one playoff game.
As far as DK goes, see what you can get on the FA market cheaper with similar numbers.
Cut all the over priced dead weight ( Fant, D.Jones, Lockett, Nuwasu, P.Brown and possibly DK and Geno and ST coach Harbaugh) and use the cap space to rebuild the Oline and bring in the players that fit the new system.
I always thought that an 8 and 9 or a 9 and 8 season was an excellent result for a new coaching staff working with mostly the old staffs personnel.
Next year should be interesting.
I think it is really hard to be worth more than $20M as a player, full stop. If a team needs to divide the salary between 65 players to make it through a season, and the cap is $260M, then the average player gets $4M. If you give $20M to one player now that 15M comes from dropping 4 other players to 3M below average. Just because a player is at a really important position doesn't mean the rest of the team can go by the wayside. I believe most players making over $20M are overpaid, because in a group of world class athlete's that is the NFL, being 4-5X better than the "average" player is almost impossible.
My question for this (forgot to include above) is: Has anyone ever broken down Super Bowl teams for what percentage of cap the top 5, 11 and 22 earners make, or separately how many of a SB team's top paid players fit under 50% of the cap? It feels to arbitrary for me as a normie who may not earn $20M in my lifetime to say which NFL players are and are not worth that. I feel like knowing that distribution would really change a lot of these discussions. Then the question becomes is DK worth being one of the 3 players who can more than 10% of the cap? My personal answer to that question is no, and I think if you extend that to QB's I think it can help explain for teambuilding why allocating one of those spots to your QB isn't always the clearest path to a winning roster.
I have definitely been thinking about this argument for 10-15 years. More and more, I'm just thinking that "average" or "median" or "typical" Super Bowl winners do not make good models for how to win a Super Bowl. The only thing I think for sure is that you gotta set yourself up to get the 1 seed. Especially the Seahawks because they're just so isolated. We've seen plenty of teams get 13 or 14 wins with mediocrity at QB, we've seen teams get 13 or 14 wins with elite QBs who are highly paid.
Going back to what you said though, I think there's a fair argument to be made that there's a limit to what a player should make under the salary cap, and almost every single team goes over it for bad investments.
Always tough to get down to what exactly the question is when talking about the cap. Because there is Average Per Year and then there is their actual cap hit that year.
But using the actuals for this year and maybe the 4 best teams in football:
Eagles: No active cap hits over $20M, Top 5 are Lane Johnson $16M, Hurts $14M, AJ Brown $12M, Mailata $12M, Slay $11M ... They have $22M in dead money to Reddick and $63M in total dead money
Lions: Goff at $27M, Next 4 are Ragnow $13M, Decker $11M, Sewell $8M, Zeitler 6M ... They have $35M in total dead money
Bills: Allen at $30M, Next 4 are Von MIller $15M, Milano $12M, Dawkins $12M, Ed Oliver $10M ... They have $31M in dead money to Diggs and $70M in total dead money
Chiefs: Mahomes at $37M, Next 4 are Thuney $27M, Kelce $20M, Jawaan Taylor $19M, Justin Reid 14M ... They have $14M in total dead money
overthecap.com
Looking at first year cap hits can be incredibly misleading though as all NFL contracts are front end loaded. Which would be the case next year if they extend DK and/or Geno.
Right now DK may Beas valuable as a decor as a receiver. His double coverage makes things easier for Jan a njigba. This is Locket’s last season. Remove DK and locket and life is going to be tougher for the new guys.
This may be, but it is still not why those other WRs make $30-$35 million per season.
DK can only imagine single coverage in the end zone by a slot corner.
https://youtu.be/wzsFC0-GWhw?si=CEk-K65IV0Rykcs8
I hope they go 1-2. But that is the ran in me I guess. I don’t think they are better than the teams they are playing. It could be 0-3
DK he needs better play calls. He is always just doing go routes. Why not slants ?
I am done with Geno. He loses too many points in the red zone. There are a lot of QBs on 1 year deals
First reaction, Sam Howell did not impress. Here’s my long winded question: A couple years ago the 49ers had a seismic shift at QB elevating Mr Irrelevant to QB1. Could John Rhys Plumlee be the Brock Purdy of the hawks?
DK is not worth $30mil, but some team will pay him close to that. It could be us, and it wouldn't immediately mean everything is lost either.
1-2 is acceptable. We're going to lose to the Vikings. We should beat the Bears but TNF does weird things. The Rams, we have to beat the Rams because it's the Rams. That will tell me we truly are in a new era of Hawks football.
Is 30-13 reflective? Too complicated for a yes/no. Would a PC team have turned a 20-3 first half into a 10-10 second? By any measure for any teams that's a great adjustment, even more so when your QB goes down! But we shouldn't ship 20pts like that, and our offense is just that bleh this year. Yes it's reflective but also it's not. Basically, as I keep saying this year, we're year 1 of a rebuild and that means good and bad times with a good amount of inconsistency.
Just coming back to this comment. You were actually low on what some team would pay DK
2025 Salary Cap Charge: $11,000,000
2025 Cash Payout: $35,000,000
I wish him luck. He's gonna need some big games to justify that payout