For anyone needing more Woolen misques...at around 520 left in the 2nd qtr in the NFC Championship vs our friends the rams....Woolen aligned wide covers and tails the reviewer on an in-breaking route and is unable to see in the backfield that a hand off has occurred and the ball is coming...or would have been coming his way. Many players would instinctively have eyes on ball...at least peeking into the back field to see the most important thing on the field at all times THE BALL! Instead as the receiver is crossing his face (which would have allowed for an Uber easy view of the hand off) Woolen misses the play and runs out of position...it's almost like the rams were like 'if you get this set up, audible to this and they instantly lose contain and we're golden...'. Sorry for the rant but I just can't let the stat only people keep saying Woolen is good he's great even. He's not. You need players that understand the major and minor goals of each and every play...he does not play like he understands this all the time. He is absolutely electric when he's locked in and not asked to be the primary driver of the defense. He's crazy athletic and he's been working on being a better football player. But he overall still lacks what I'm looking for. Hard pass for anything other than a good back up salary. I expect that's what his ceiling is unless something major changes.
After rewatching the season a few times...I'm convinced more than ever the two players most needed to be upgraded are Woolen and Bradford. If I get two starters in the draft I want replacements for those two unless we are not able, or choose not to, re-sign someone that starts.
I actually think Woolen’s market is not going to be as robust as he hopes. The league is aware of his foibles, and that he was passed on the depth chart by someone who was thought to be replacement - level. It would be good for the team if he gets a massive offer, as it seems he’s committed to leaving (several sly public refs over the last year), but I’m not sure anyone else sees him as a cb1.
It's a young man's game thus the flare of fame is brief and transitory right. Sure I'll always cherish the greats...Bobbie Wagner, Cortez (RIP), Turf (RIP...he was such a good boy) and so many others over the years, but the team we love endures. I appreciate Woolen (although I was ready to throttle the dude when he drew that penalty) and Appreciate Bradford for the commitment and gains he made but it's time to say thanks and buy them luggage.
Even with another guard to replace Mr. Anthony at this time, having a player who knows the systemas as a fall-back at a low cost is still effective. He well might keep improving and provide a good sub in non-critical situations. His Hawk teammates seem to like him.
I agree with your analysis and it's logical. Of course, if tests the market and it's weak to the tune of under 10M/Y, then I think that's his value, but put in a taunting penalty clause that he loses 1/2M every time he gets a taunting penalty. He is NOT as BAD as DK when it comes to immaturity, and part of his problem was he really worked hard to become a more aggressive and focused player. He was so proud of it, that caused at least two of those penalties. It's not an excuse, but I believe it is true. He made significant progress as an aggressive tackler and he progressed in his focus on each and every play. Then he gets penalized and he feels guilty and he loses focus and gives up a TD.
But I get it. Let someone else live with his mistakes. He doesn't really fit the model for a draftable Seahawk. He's a bit too immature and may always be too immature. So where is the line? But I get it, we can only pay for one shutdown corner and that is Witherspoon, whose intangibles (like maturity) are off the charts. So let him go.
As to why we love the Seahawks and all that fan analysis, after further thought, I agree with you almost 100%, and I will not pick a nit. I gave you a heart today.
Total side note...if we take a guard I want Keylan Rutledge Georgia tech. He's like a very angry dancing bear...I can totally see him in our system. He moves really well...
I don't know Keylan but I'm pretty sure a dancing bear on the right to bookend our fearsome farmer on the left would make our O-line a nightmare for opponents. My (bias) take is that A top five O-line can make a really 'good' QB and run game really GREAT. O or D, it all starts up front.
Could see Benton banging the table to get this guy in. His raw traits jump off the screen. My concern is that they are traits, and his game has almost zero refinement even after a full college career. His basic set and stance is a bit all over the place, and his pass protection is bad at best. However if you get him moving and locked onto his assignment, with a RB following, it's a guaranteed handful of yards.
I see a lot of Bradford in him, with a pretty high ceiling. It's just going to be if he can get the techniques learned, build consistency and hold up against an NFL-level pass rush.
Linemen 'usually' require some coaching to be good starters...a lot to learn in that transition from college to wearing big boy pants in the NFL. Zabel is an 'exceptional' rookie...very high football IQ, physical attributes and a fast learner...that magical trifecta. Benton's Bruiser's improved as the season progressed. I'm sooo grateful we could keep Benton.
I am reminded of Brandon Browner and Byron Maxwell. Two good players who got paid by other teams to be great only to find out that they did not look so good away from Sherm, Thomas and Kam. When you are the ninth or tenth best player on a great defense you get over paid. The same thing occurs with number 2 receivers on great offenses.
Wrong I’ve always said Tyler still could be productive with this team. :-). But like you, not at the contract he was on. He still was the second best, after JSN on first down making receptions. But we got Kupp, a similar style and better blocker, player. So, you did have one incorrect statement. lol. Personally I would hope he gets the infamous 1 day contract to retire a Seahawk.
For the life of me I still don't know what to make of Woolen the player. Immense talent who plays very well most of the time but with a disturbing habit of choking in the high pressure situations. I thought it was either a fluke or he would overcome it but TDs, big plays and penalties keep happening in high leverage situations.
If it were up to me at this point I'd likely move on and hope he gets a huge contract from another team.
Not at all. They both made incredible plays for this team. Kept us winning. They, which often happens both ways, see Robert Turbin, either mature or don’t. Incredible talents that didn’t mature. Sherman incredible talent that did mature. Key being, do not overpay. JS isn’t.
Mr. Woolen declared what he wanted to be called a couple of off-seasons ago - REEK (sp?). This is the kind of trait I would expect from a TAUNTER and a lazy player with a poor attention span during his workday. Excitedly mouthing off at your highly skilled opponent even in retaliation of the same from him is immature and self-degrading
I apologize, Mr Woolen - This is my opinion and it likely would change if I got to know you personally. But your ego and somewhat rash behaviour hurt your team during your workday. I am sure that you have redeeming qualities in addition to your immense football talent. You may have noticed that another immensely talented teammate immediately reacted negatively on the sidelines to your face. I doubt we will see him potentially cost the team a win because he got very excited during a game.
I apologize to any fellow readers who find my opinion troubling or overly harsh.
I agree with this.Woolen has elite attributes that enable him to shut down the very best the NFL has to offer from the WR position. I feel he plays with passion and his emotions get the best of him leading to the dumb and irrational penalties. I do agree with SSJ that Woolen is much better in man coverage than zone coverage. I do not feel he is the best fit for the Hawks' system or culture.
Woolen is a liability and does not fit the typical style of player in the secondary. I fully expect him to be gone with someone willing to overpay for his services. I wish him well. There are so many corners in the draft, we just need to take one earlyish cause I think they are gonna go fast. I don't like the lower rounds options nearly as much. I have good luck in the sims trading back out of the first round and moving up from round six so you can make all four choices in the top 100 or so picks...this draft does seem to dry up in later rounds imo. There will still be gems to unearth, but I'm just not seeing a ton of later round obvious potential.
Riq was one of the most confounding players in his time as a Seahawk that I can ever remember. I loved him as a rookie. He was raw and made some mistakes, but his physical gifts made up for them overall. And he seemed like a great, funny kid. Year 2 he often looked lost out there. At times, he didn't look like an NCAA division 1 corner. Other times he'd make a play few others in the history of the league could. That's not hyperbole. This last year he mostly seemed to settle down and play at a pretty high level. On one hand, he helped us win a Super Bowl. On the other, he single-handedly almost kept us from getting to it.
I guess this is a long way of saying that I don't trust him. If he wants to sign a 1 year prove-it deal or a contract that I doubt his agent would even take seriously (like 3 year, 24M), then sure. But if anyone is willing to offer him numbers I've seen kicked around -more than double that; not a chance. Thanks for the memories. Well, about half of them.
For anyone needing more Woolen misques...at around 520 left in the 2nd qtr in the NFC Championship vs our friends the rams....Woolen aligned wide covers and tails the reviewer on an in-breaking route and is unable to see in the backfield that a hand off has occurred and the ball is coming...or would have been coming his way. Many players would instinctively have eyes on ball...at least peeking into the back field to see the most important thing on the field at all times THE BALL! Instead as the receiver is crossing his face (which would have allowed for an Uber easy view of the hand off) Woolen misses the play and runs out of position...it's almost like the rams were like 'if you get this set up, audible to this and they instantly lose contain and we're golden...'. Sorry for the rant but I just can't let the stat only people keep saying Woolen is good he's great even. He's not. You need players that understand the major and minor goals of each and every play...he does not play like he understands this all the time. He is absolutely electric when he's locked in and not asked to be the primary driver of the defense. He's crazy athletic and he's been working on being a better football player. But he overall still lacks what I'm looking for. Hard pass for anything other than a good back up salary. I expect that's what his ceiling is unless something major changes.
After rewatching the season a few times...I'm convinced more than ever the two players most needed to be upgraded are Woolen and Bradford. If I get two starters in the draft I want replacements for those two unless we are not able, or choose not to, re-sign someone that starts.
Jobe>Woolen, so we should focus on him.
I actually think Woolen’s market is not going to be as robust as he hopes. The league is aware of his foibles, and that he was passed on the depth chart by someone who was thought to be replacement - level. It would be good for the team if he gets a massive offer, as it seems he’s committed to leaving (several sly public refs over the last year), but I’m not sure anyone else sees him as a cb1.
It's a young man's game thus the flare of fame is brief and transitory right. Sure I'll always cherish the greats...Bobbie Wagner, Cortez (RIP), Turf (RIP...he was such a good boy) and so many others over the years, but the team we love endures. I appreciate Woolen (although I was ready to throttle the dude when he drew that penalty) and Appreciate Bradford for the commitment and gains he made but it's time to say thanks and buy them luggage.
As always...GO HAWKS!
Even with another guard to replace Mr. Anthony at this time, having a player who knows the systemas as a fall-back at a low cost is still effective. He well might keep improving and provide a good sub in non-critical situations. His Hawk teammates seem to like him.
I agree with your analysis and it's logical. Of course, if tests the market and it's weak to the tune of under 10M/Y, then I think that's his value, but put in a taunting penalty clause that he loses 1/2M every time he gets a taunting penalty. He is NOT as BAD as DK when it comes to immaturity, and part of his problem was he really worked hard to become a more aggressive and focused player. He was so proud of it, that caused at least two of those penalties. It's not an excuse, but I believe it is true. He made significant progress as an aggressive tackler and he progressed in his focus on each and every play. Then he gets penalized and he feels guilty and he loses focus and gives up a TD.
But I get it. Let someone else live with his mistakes. He doesn't really fit the model for a draftable Seahawk. He's a bit too immature and may always be too immature. So where is the line? But I get it, we can only pay for one shutdown corner and that is Witherspoon, whose intangibles (like maturity) are off the charts. So let him go.
As to why we love the Seahawks and all that fan analysis, after further thought, I agree with you almost 100%, and I will not pick a nit. I gave you a heart today.
Let's just go to $1 M per taunting penalty 'n then double the next. Should be sufficient.
Total side note...if we take a guard I want Keylan Rutledge Georgia tech. He's like a very angry dancing bear...I can totally see him in our system. He moves really well...
I don't know Keylan but I'm pretty sure a dancing bear on the right to bookend our fearsome farmer on the left would make our O-line a nightmare for opponents. My (bias) take is that A top five O-line can make a really 'good' QB and run game really GREAT. O or D, it all starts up front.
Could see Benton banging the table to get this guy in. His raw traits jump off the screen. My concern is that they are traits, and his game has almost zero refinement even after a full college career. His basic set and stance is a bit all over the place, and his pass protection is bad at best. However if you get him moving and locked onto his assignment, with a RB following, it's a guaranteed handful of yards.
I see a lot of Bradford in him, with a pretty high ceiling. It's just going to be if he can get the techniques learned, build consistency and hold up against an NFL-level pass rush.
Linemen 'usually' require some coaching to be good starters...a lot to learn in that transition from college to wearing big boy pants in the NFL. Zabel is an 'exceptional' rookie...very high football IQ, physical attributes and a fast learner...that magical trifecta. Benton's Bruiser's improved as the season progressed. I'm sooo grateful we could keep Benton.
Hoping we can retain Jobe instead, he's been a steady riser and a good tackler who should cost a reasonable amount
I am reminded of Brandon Browner and Byron Maxwell. Two good players who got paid by other teams to be great only to find out that they did not look so good away from Sherm, Thomas and Kam. When you are the ninth or tenth best player on a great defense you get over paid. The same thing occurs with number 2 receivers on great offenses.
Wrong I’ve always said Tyler still could be productive with this team. :-). But like you, not at the contract he was on. He still was the second best, after JSN on first down making receptions. But we got Kupp, a similar style and better blocker, player. So, you did have one incorrect statement. lol. Personally I would hope he gets the infamous 1 day contract to retire a Seahawk.
For the life of me I still don't know what to make of Woolen the player. Immense talent who plays very well most of the time but with a disturbing habit of choking in the high pressure situations. I thought it was either a fluke or he would overcome it but TDs, big plays and penalties keep happening in high leverage situations.
If it were up to me at this point I'd likely move on and hope he gets a huge contract from another team.
It may just be me, but is anyone else concerned that JS drafted DK and Woolen. If they are not with the program why were they made Seahawks at all?
PC had the last word on those drafts, not JS. Part of the reason PC is gone is that he HAD to have the ultimate power.
Not at all. They both made incredible plays for this team. Kept us winning. They, which often happens both ways, see Robert Turbin, either mature or don’t. Incredible talents that didn’t mature. Sherman incredible talent that did mature. Key being, do not overpay. JS isn’t.
Some sites have projected Woolen to get > $20 mill/ year. That (plus some playing time metrics) would generate a 3rd Round Comp pick in 2027.
I agree with numerous comments that Woolen’s level of maturity and consistency are not worth Top CB money.
I’d be very happy with a 3rd rounder comp pick for him.
Plenty of good corners in the draft. I do hope we keep Jobe, though.
Not sure what Coby will get offered - if his price is reasonable, I’d like to have him back, too. Okada is great insurance, however.
The money that will be required for Spoon and JSN will force a number of hard personnel/ draft/ FA decisions!
Mr. Woolen declared what he wanted to be called a couple of off-seasons ago - REEK (sp?). This is the kind of trait I would expect from a TAUNTER and a lazy player with a poor attention span during his workday. Excitedly mouthing off at your highly skilled opponent even in retaliation of the same from him is immature and self-degrading
I apologize, Mr Woolen - This is my opinion and it likely would change if I got to know you personally. But your ego and somewhat rash behaviour hurt your team during your workday. I am sure that you have redeeming qualities in addition to your immense football talent. You may have noticed that another immensely talented teammate immediately reacted negatively on the sidelines to your face. I doubt we will see him potentially cost the team a win because he got very excited during a game.
I apologize to any fellow readers who find my opinion troubling or overly harsh.
The numbers are fairly clear that Woolen is the best coverage CB on the team. Laziness is generally not typical of a CB who is strong in coverage.
I agree with this.Woolen has elite attributes that enable him to shut down the very best the NFL has to offer from the WR position. I feel he plays with passion and his emotions get the best of him leading to the dumb and irrational penalties. I do agree with SSJ that Woolen is much better in man coverage than zone coverage. I do not feel he is the best fit for the Hawks' system or culture.
Woolen is a liability and does not fit the typical style of player in the secondary. I fully expect him to be gone with someone willing to overpay for his services. I wish him well. There are so many corners in the draft, we just need to take one earlyish cause I think they are gonna go fast. I don't like the lower rounds options nearly as much. I have good luck in the sims trading back out of the first round and moving up from round six so you can make all four choices in the top 100 or so picks...this draft does seem to dry up in later rounds imo. There will still be gems to unearth, but I'm just not seeing a ton of later round obvious potential.
Riq was one of the most confounding players in his time as a Seahawk that I can ever remember. I loved him as a rookie. He was raw and made some mistakes, but his physical gifts made up for them overall. And he seemed like a great, funny kid. Year 2 he often looked lost out there. At times, he didn't look like an NCAA division 1 corner. Other times he'd make a play few others in the history of the league could. That's not hyperbole. This last year he mostly seemed to settle down and play at a pretty high level. On one hand, he helped us win a Super Bowl. On the other, he single-handedly almost kept us from getting to it.
I guess this is a long way of saying that I don't trust him. If he wants to sign a 1 year prove-it deal or a contract that I doubt his agent would even take seriously (like 3 year, 24M), then sure. But if anyone is willing to offer him numbers I've seen kicked around -more than double that; not a chance. Thanks for the memories. Well, about half of them.
"Thanks for the memories. Well, about half of them." hah, hah, good one, Chuck.