I understand your perspective on the draft, but I respectfully disagree with you.
If I accept your position, then GM’s and HC’s have no accountability for the players they choose and how they develop them.
Bad GM’s and Head Coaches choose players that fail, then they go elsewhere and succeed (Sam Darnold, Leonard Williams, Daniel Jones, Matthew Stafford, etc).
Good GM’s and HC’s repeatedly draft good players that turn into superstars (Howie Roseman, Les Snead, etc)
The NFL is nothing if not the “accountability league”.
You draft and develop poorly and you get fired.
You draft and develop well, you go deep in the playoffs..
GM’s and HC’s are either good at their job or not.
Saying if the Seahawks don’t draft Bobby Wagner or Russell Wilson then the draft is poor is like saying we got two superstars but everyone else was bad so it wasnt a great draft is ridiculous in my mind…
Most of your perspectives make sense to me…this one does not.
On Thomas. I’ve read (think The Athletic), Thomas actually had wrist issue. Played but hurt. Last 2 games after healed he’s doing fabulous like last year. Sounds like not a slump. Daniels in a slump or hurt? On Walker. Question. If only pass rush, is he any better than our past Taylor who couldn’t survive Coach Mac?
No on travon...I didn't get it then and I Def don't get it now. I like looking and dreaming but he's not for me. Now...onto a different topic. 🥃🐍😶🌫️. If you think defense wins championships you are not correct, and this is coming from a defensive coordinator. The best a defense can hope for is to hold the other team to zero points. If the offense fails to score the result is a tie. If the defense scores they can win. I know this is basic stuff, but the idea is to out score the opponent. If you are going to be elite on one side of the ball, I'm choosing offense. We've got to score more consistently if we want to ensure a title...dvoa...move the needle towards being elite offensively.. Google week 9 dvoa chart...go to reddit.
Given that pretty much everybody is going to score about 14 points in every game, how about if we score 21 points or more and just take our chances at being above average in the victory column?
- Seattle is tied for 5th for average points scored per game.
- Seattle is ranked 7th for average points scored against per game.
- For the average margin we are at 7th.
Now, for our average time of possession we are ranked at 24th. I think it would be good to address the offensive line so we can grind out the clock in the second half and keep the defense off the field.
I am a hard no on Travon as well. Interestingly, the only offensive player the Seahawks have traded for from 2023-2025 is Sam Howell. The defensive players they have traded for are Jones, Williams, Barrett, Gibson and Robertson-Harris. I would love to see an elite edge added but I think that is a pipe dream.
For this year, I would like to see additions to the offensive side of the ball first as well. The RG position feels like the biggest glaring hole from my perspective. Hah, or maybe a player who is really really good at gadget plays.
I hope they are doing right by Daniels, and not putting a compromised young player in there because they feel they need to to win. Bad idea anyway, cuz they're losing either way.
Coaches get hired promising results. The vast majority fall short. Our Coaches are not just fulfilling promises, they are correctly identifying who will develop and how. To go outside for help indicates we don't have the personal needed in the time we have allotted. Our super talents will wish to hook their wagons to a Winner this year, next and next after that. The only way we maintain this '12 as One' Spirit is to have everybody on-board for going outside, to include Players. My bet is JS does nothing by Nov. 4. Every Player taken in the Draft has what it takes. It becomes a question of superb confidence or collapsing confidence. Our Coaches are proving themselves the best at tapping talents.
So with the trade deadline coming up on the 4th of Nov what will JS do this year. Some think they stay pat. With the play of Drake Thomas improving every week (great 22 film on him working with Jobe), that eliminates the LB role with Knight in the wings as backup. WR has been suggested with a wild trade for Olave and pairing him with JSN. The reasoning is, " What if JSN got hurt?". If he stays healthy, with Kupp and those two your receiving corps has a dangerous feel. But I guess the real question is what about right guard. Daniel Jeremiah did an full year review on his film as suggested by Salk and the verdict was pretty bad. He started out bad and ended up worse. so much for that great preseason. What would be Seattle's trade chip. Probably Woolen. With that said, maybe Seattle doesn't want to give up their CB depth with the way things have gone this year with Spoon. What guard could they possibly go after. I've heard 34 year old Joe Bitonio mentioned on the last year of his contract. Sliding him in at LG and moving Zable to right. I've heard Ruiz with NO and his experience with Kubiak and this offense. I doubt that. For one he just signed a new deal in 23, and NO is going to be starting their rookie QB. He's one of their best lineman. Wyatt Teller also has been tossed out there. Greg Bell says no way. His cheap shot on Nwosu left a bad taste in McDonalds and the rest of defenses mouth. I don't see that happening. Is there someone out there Seattle could get on the cheap to go from terrible to not good to give the running game a chance. Bradford doesn't work for the wide zone that's why Seattle is running so little of it. That of course goes against the whole scheme of Kubiaks running offense.
Here's my take; Seattle has very few good options. Rob Rang is afraid that trading a bad option for another bad option is not a good idea. Next years draft ain't so hot, I hear so picks don't have the same value.
So what is Seattle going to do. My gut says nothing. Christian Haynes is back at practice this week and although he hasn't been able to win the job from Bradford, he was injured and out most of this year since early in camp where he lost the job after the pads came on. We all know that Haynes played a lot of wide zone in college and was highly touted as a 3rd round pick. Does Seattle think there "still might be a chance" with him to be that guy. (I feel like Jim Carey about now) I don't have a clue. Is Cabledue going to get a shot. We know Benton wanted him bad in the draft and he made the 53. Does Seattle bring in Olu and move Sundell to RG. Is Ouzts return looked at as the missing bandaid for Seattle preseason success.
I have an impossible question to answer, but will ask it anyway:
John Schneider looked like a genius with his early draft classes…then went into a terrible slump…now that Pete Carroll is gone, Schneider is starting to looking like a genius again, not only with recent draft classes (2024 class looks awesome), but free agency (Sam Darnold, Cooper Kupp, Drake Thomas, etc,)
How much of the pre-Mike McDonald talent acquisition failure (Malik McDowell, Dee Eskridge, LJ Collier, Rashad Penny, Germaine Ifedi, etc) was due to Pete Carroll having too much influence in personnel decisions vs John Schneider doing a poor job?
Without being able to answer the question, my opinion has always been that we put way too much stock in our own ability to judge the quality of a team drafting players. I won't get into the minutiae of explaining this point by recounting examples year by year because that would take a lot of time, but just generally speaking with think a team had a great year or a bad year often based on merely 1 or 2 picks.
"One of the all time great drafts" in 2012 is merely "okay" if you remove Wilson or Wagner and downright awful if you remove Wilson and Wagner. If Wagner goes 1 pick earlier and Wilson goes 1 pick earlier, the Seahawks potentially never get to the Super Bowl and Pete Carroll's career could be shortlived.
Conversely, the Seahawks may have had many great players barely slip through their fingers for the next decade, plus they were constantly drafting late. Many of their picks were actually pretty good for their draft position; there's a reason John Schneider has lasted 16 years. Plus much of the draft is a crapshoot and nobody is "good" at predicting the future.
This would not excuse some questionable first choices. But I don't see it as a rollercoaster per se and as you point out, the Seahawks have gone through multiple front office changes in that time, not just Pete Carroll's departure. The Seahawks could have a bad draft in 2026 and I wouldn't assume that it's because John Schneider was doing something different or forgot how to do the job. That's the nature of the draft.
With respect to this statement, “my opinion has always been that we put way too much stock in our own ability to judge the quality of a team drafting players.” This is why, although I create my own draft board with the help of other draft boards, player film, and mock drafts, I find it a basically fruitless process. That being said, I’ll be doing it again. One thing I do, however, is immediately buy in the whomever the Hawks pick. Who am I to argue with dozens of paid professional evaluators and millions of dollars being spent on the process JS employs to get the best they can with what they can ascertain about the available players? I really bristle when I hear people say they think of someone as a bad pick, or they don’t know why they didn’t pick so and so. They will then tell you about the one time they said this guy was going to be a hit, but conveniently ignore the other 9 times out of 10 the guy they liked was a bust.
I’m thinking back to the pre-season game with KC and how the Hawks ran all over KC with lots of motion. This was kind of KK signature play style so what’s really up with the Hawks being 32nd? It’s not all AB so let’s move off him and I don’t think it just defensive stacking the box. KK has seen stack boxes before so what is it? Is it the TE, RB, No Ouzts?, play calling, WHAT?
If the Hawks are getting to 12 or more wins and a playoff run they must run the ball better. They must be able to get 4+ yards on first down in the 4th quarter, Klint run the dam ball better.
Please no Brian Thomas...the couple games I've watched he's repeatedly dropped open balls. I mean, Trevor Lawrence is whatever he is, but Thomas would just take reps away from Horton.
I keep thinking we need one more ILB, and remembered a couple nights ago that we sorta stole...what's his name...Poo Paul? From the Rams? He's undersized, sitting on our practice squad. I realize I'm dithering about a bottom-of-the-roster dude, but I'm curious about his progress, if nothing else.
Rams fans were curious and furious. But only because he was a draft pick, not because there's any proof he can play. Drake Thomas was a bottom-of-the-roster guy once too, so you never know.
On Brian Thomas, I would also be of the mind that he's not worth the risk. However, I remain open to having my mind change because he's having a bad season on the Jaguars. My comment about him and JSN potentially being a great duo was just that...potentially.
I'm not comparing him to Randy Moss in any shape or form, but I think of Moss being "Washed" on the Raiders and then going to the Patriots. If Thomas were traded to the 49ers, I could see him rebounding. All pretty much a moot point anyway, I don't think the Jaguars are open to trading Thomas.
I’m thinking back to the pre-season game with KC and how the Hawks ran all over KC with lots of motion. This was kind of KK signature play style so what’s really up with the Hawks being 32nd? It’s not all AB so let’s move off him and I don’t think it just defensive stacking the box. KK has seen stack boxes before so what is it? Is it the TE, RB, No Ouzts?, play calling, WHAT?
If the Hawks are getting to 12 or more wins and a playoff run they must run the ball better. They must be able to get 4+ yards on first down in the 4th quarter, Kline run the dam ball better.
The Eagles have the most 0-1 yard runs this year, but we know why. The Giants have the next-most. The Seahawks have the 10th-most. The Cardinals and Lions have the most per game. Josh Jacobs has the most individually.
The Eagles had the most last year. The Steelers had the next most. Jonathan Taylor had the most individually.
Not counting the Eagles, the Colts have the most in the last 2 years, followed by the Steelers and Chargers. The Seahawks are 23rd. Taylor has the most, followed by Barkley, Jacobs, Henry, and Pollard.
For running plays that lost 1 to 5 yards, the Dolphins have by far the most. Followed by the Eagles and Saints. The Seahawks have the 8th-most. Barkley has the most carries and has lost the most yardage.
SSJ,
I understand your perspective on the draft, but I respectfully disagree with you.
If I accept your position, then GM’s and HC’s have no accountability for the players they choose and how they develop them.
Bad GM’s and Head Coaches choose players that fail, then they go elsewhere and succeed (Sam Darnold, Leonard Williams, Daniel Jones, Matthew Stafford, etc).
Good GM’s and HC’s repeatedly draft good players that turn into superstars (Howie Roseman, Les Snead, etc)
The NFL is nothing if not the “accountability league”.
You draft and develop poorly and you get fired.
You draft and develop well, you go deep in the playoffs..
GM’s and HC’s are either good at their job or not.
Saying if the Seahawks don’t draft Bobby Wagner or Russell Wilson then the draft is poor is like saying we got two superstars but everyone else was bad so it wasnt a great draft is ridiculous in my mind…
Most of your perspectives make sense to me…this one does not.
On Thomas. I’ve read (think The Athletic), Thomas actually had wrist issue. Played but hurt. Last 2 games after healed he’s doing fabulous like last year. Sounds like not a slump. Daniels in a slump or hurt? On Walker. Question. If only pass rush, is he any better than our past Taylor who couldn’t survive Coach Mac?
I think MM likes versatility and Walker seems anything but that to me.
No on travon...I didn't get it then and I Def don't get it now. I like looking and dreaming but he's not for me. Now...onto a different topic. 🥃🐍😶🌫️. If you think defense wins championships you are not correct, and this is coming from a defensive coordinator. The best a defense can hope for is to hold the other team to zero points. If the offense fails to score the result is a tie. If the defense scores they can win. I know this is basic stuff, but the idea is to out score the opponent. If you are going to be elite on one side of the ball, I'm choosing offense. We've got to score more consistently if we want to ensure a title...dvoa...move the needle towards being elite offensively.. Google week 9 dvoa chart...go to reddit.
Well, yeah, but....
Given that pretty much everybody is going to score about 14 points in every game, how about if we score 21 points or more and just take our chances at being above average in the victory column?
Throwing out some stats:
- Seattle is tied for 5th for average points scored per game.
- Seattle is ranked 7th for average points scored against per game.
- For the average margin we are at 7th.
Now, for our average time of possession we are ranked at 24th. I think it would be good to address the offensive line so we can grind out the clock in the second half and keep the defense off the field.
I just want us to focus on the offense if anything...defense is already in elite territory.
I am a hard no on Travon as well. Interestingly, the only offensive player the Seahawks have traded for from 2023-2025 is Sam Howell. The defensive players they have traded for are Jones, Williams, Barrett, Gibson and Robertson-Harris. I would love to see an elite edge added but I think that is a pipe dream.
For this year, I would like to see additions to the offensive side of the ball first as well. The RG position feels like the biggest glaring hole from my perspective. Hah, or maybe a player who is really really good at gadget plays.
Jayden Daniels: On track to play
Terry McLauin: Out
Julian Love: Setback sounds like he won't play
I thought heard Daniels likely sit due to upcoming bye. And being soft tissue issue, rest needed. But Marcus 1-2 so.
I hope they are doing right by Daniels, and not putting a compromised young player in there because they feel they need to to win. Bad idea anyway, cuz they're losing either way.
Especially as Mariota hasn’t played that badly, relatively speaking.
Memories of RG3 are springing to mind.
Coaches get hired promising results. The vast majority fall short. Our Coaches are not just fulfilling promises, they are correctly identifying who will develop and how. To go outside for help indicates we don't have the personal needed in the time we have allotted. Our super talents will wish to hook their wagons to a Winner this year, next and next after that. The only way we maintain this '12 as One' Spirit is to have everybody on-board for going outside, to include Players. My bet is JS does nothing by Nov. 4. Every Player taken in the Draft has what it takes. It becomes a question of superb confidence or collapsing confidence. Our Coaches are proving themselves the best at tapping talents.
I just finished watching this long interview with Greg Bell, a beat reporter for the News-Tribune. One of the best interviews I’ve seen in a while.
https://youtu.be/cDpouQvr_iQ?si=JY6y9citIDdATgw_
So with the trade deadline coming up on the 4th of Nov what will JS do this year. Some think they stay pat. With the play of Drake Thomas improving every week (great 22 film on him working with Jobe), that eliminates the LB role with Knight in the wings as backup. WR has been suggested with a wild trade for Olave and pairing him with JSN. The reasoning is, " What if JSN got hurt?". If he stays healthy, with Kupp and those two your receiving corps has a dangerous feel. But I guess the real question is what about right guard. Daniel Jeremiah did an full year review on his film as suggested by Salk and the verdict was pretty bad. He started out bad and ended up worse. so much for that great preseason. What would be Seattle's trade chip. Probably Woolen. With that said, maybe Seattle doesn't want to give up their CB depth with the way things have gone this year with Spoon. What guard could they possibly go after. I've heard 34 year old Joe Bitonio mentioned on the last year of his contract. Sliding him in at LG and moving Zable to right. I've heard Ruiz with NO and his experience with Kubiak and this offense. I doubt that. For one he just signed a new deal in 23, and NO is going to be starting their rookie QB. He's one of their best lineman. Wyatt Teller also has been tossed out there. Greg Bell says no way. His cheap shot on Nwosu left a bad taste in McDonalds and the rest of defenses mouth. I don't see that happening. Is there someone out there Seattle could get on the cheap to go from terrible to not good to give the running game a chance. Bradford doesn't work for the wide zone that's why Seattle is running so little of it. That of course goes against the whole scheme of Kubiaks running offense.
Here's my take; Seattle has very few good options. Rob Rang is afraid that trading a bad option for another bad option is not a good idea. Next years draft ain't so hot, I hear so picks don't have the same value.
So what is Seattle going to do. My gut says nothing. Christian Haynes is back at practice this week and although he hasn't been able to win the job from Bradford, he was injured and out most of this year since early in camp where he lost the job after the pads came on. We all know that Haynes played a lot of wide zone in college and was highly touted as a 3rd round pick. Does Seattle think there "still might be a chance" with him to be that guy. (I feel like Jim Carey about now) I don't have a clue. Is Cabledue going to get a shot. We know Benton wanted him bad in the draft and he made the 53. Does Seattle bring in Olu and move Sundell to RG. Is Ouzts return looked at as the missing bandaid for Seattle preseason success.
It's all mystifying to me. anybody got any ideas?
I have an impossible question to answer, but will ask it anyway:
John Schneider looked like a genius with his early draft classes…then went into a terrible slump…now that Pete Carroll is gone, Schneider is starting to looking like a genius again, not only with recent draft classes (2024 class looks awesome), but free agency (Sam Darnold, Cooper Kupp, Drake Thomas, etc,)
How much of the pre-Mike McDonald talent acquisition failure (Malik McDowell, Dee Eskridge, LJ Collier, Rashad Penny, Germaine Ifedi, etc) was due to Pete Carroll having too much influence in personnel decisions vs John Schneider doing a poor job?
Without being able to answer the question, my opinion has always been that we put way too much stock in our own ability to judge the quality of a team drafting players. I won't get into the minutiae of explaining this point by recounting examples year by year because that would take a lot of time, but just generally speaking with think a team had a great year or a bad year often based on merely 1 or 2 picks.
"One of the all time great drafts" in 2012 is merely "okay" if you remove Wilson or Wagner and downright awful if you remove Wilson and Wagner. If Wagner goes 1 pick earlier and Wilson goes 1 pick earlier, the Seahawks potentially never get to the Super Bowl and Pete Carroll's career could be shortlived.
Conversely, the Seahawks may have had many great players barely slip through their fingers for the next decade, plus they were constantly drafting late. Many of their picks were actually pretty good for their draft position; there's a reason John Schneider has lasted 16 years. Plus much of the draft is a crapshoot and nobody is "good" at predicting the future.
This would not excuse some questionable first choices. But I don't see it as a rollercoaster per se and as you point out, the Seahawks have gone through multiple front office changes in that time, not just Pete Carroll's departure. The Seahawks could have a bad draft in 2026 and I wouldn't assume that it's because John Schneider was doing something different or forgot how to do the job. That's the nature of the draft.
With respect to this statement, “my opinion has always been that we put way too much stock in our own ability to judge the quality of a team drafting players.” This is why, although I create my own draft board with the help of other draft boards, player film, and mock drafts, I find it a basically fruitless process. That being said, I’ll be doing it again. One thing I do, however, is immediately buy in the whomever the Hawks pick. Who am I to argue with dozens of paid professional evaluators and millions of dollars being spent on the process JS employs to get the best they can with what they can ascertain about the available players? I really bristle when I hear people say they think of someone as a bad pick, or they don’t know why they didn’t pick so and so. They will then tell you about the one time they said this guy was going to be a hit, but conveniently ignore the other 9 times out of 10 the guy they liked was a bust.
I’m thinking back to the pre-season game with KC and how the Hawks ran all over KC with lots of motion. This was kind of KK signature play style so what’s really up with the Hawks being 32nd? It’s not all AB so let’s move off him and I don’t think it just defensive stacking the box. KK has seen stack boxes before so what is it? Is it the TE, RB, No Ouzts?, play calling, WHAT?
If the Hawks are getting to 12 or more wins and a playoff run they must run the ball better. They must be able to get 4+ yards on first down in the 4th quarter, Klint run the dam ball better.
Keep in mind they have faced really good defenses in the 1st half of the season, especially vs the run.
Please no Brian Thomas...the couple games I've watched he's repeatedly dropped open balls. I mean, Trevor Lawrence is whatever he is, but Thomas would just take reps away from Horton.
I keep thinking we need one more ILB, and remembered a couple nights ago that we sorta stole...what's his name...Poo Paul? From the Rams? He's undersized, sitting on our practice squad. I realize I'm dithering about a bottom-of-the-roster dude, but I'm curious about his progress, if nothing else.
Rams fans were curious and furious. But only because he was a draft pick, not because there's any proof he can play. Drake Thomas was a bottom-of-the-roster guy once too, so you never know.
Ah. I thought maybe he'd shown something in preseason that warranted...higher expectations. Thanks.
On Brian Thomas, I would also be of the mind that he's not worth the risk. However, I remain open to having my mind change because he's having a bad season on the Jaguars. My comment about him and JSN potentially being a great duo was just that...potentially.
I'm not comparing him to Randy Moss in any shape or form, but I think of Moss being "Washed" on the Raiders and then going to the Patriots. If Thomas were traded to the 49ers, I could see him rebounding. All pretty much a moot point anyway, I don't think the Jaguars are open to trading Thomas.
Josh JOBE playing time increased? Autocorrect is the worst.
Thanks, will get that fixed.
I’m thinking back to the pre-season game with KC and how the Hawks ran all over KC with lots of motion. This was kind of KK signature play style so what’s really up with the Hawks being 32nd? It’s not all AB so let’s move off him and I don’t think it just defensive stacking the box. KK has seen stack boxes before so what is it? Is it the TE, RB, No Ouzts?, play calling, WHAT?
If the Hawks are getting to 12 or more wins and a playoff run they must run the ball better. They must be able to get 4+ yards on first down in the 4th quarter, Kline run the dam ball better.
Calling it can be difficult at first because it leads to more pre-snap penalties, so we may see it ramp up as they get more comfortable with KK.
Who has the most zero and one yard rushing gains in the NFL in the past two years? Team? Individual?
The Eagles have the most 0-1 yard runs this year, but we know why. The Giants have the next-most. The Seahawks have the 10th-most. The Cardinals and Lions have the most per game. Josh Jacobs has the most individually.
The Eagles had the most last year. The Steelers had the next most. Jonathan Taylor had the most individually.
Not counting the Eagles, the Colts have the most in the last 2 years, followed by the Steelers and Chargers. The Seahawks are 23rd. Taylor has the most, followed by Barkley, Jacobs, Henry, and Pollard.
For running plays that lost 1 to 5 yards, the Dolphins have by far the most. Followed by the Eagles and Saints. The Seahawks have the 8th-most. Barkley has the most carries and has lost the most yardage.