I think Sam might flourish in this scheme. He's more athletic than he gets credit for. He can ball. If the system highlights his strengths and keeps things simple, we're in for a great ride. If he's regularly running for his life on third and long, good luck...but that's anyone. Sam is fine, we're in good hands.
Geno cycled through his targets too slowly for the time he was given on each play. Sam does it faster. He will have 3 and 4 target outlets on every play with even more time. He's been timing things with his feet moving 3 steps, 4 steps, 5, etc. getting deeper down field as it passes. Kupp is a Master at finding where to be at what time when chaos erupts. Hope he stays healthy!
Ever the contrarian, I just can't get interested in whether Sam is over-rated or over-hated. That's 100% out of his and our control. People will say and write what people will say and write, and whether that is fair or accurate is immaterial. Some of it might be, most of likely won't be. I just can't get worked up about it.
I only care about wins. If the Team has success, and it's not despite Sam, then I'll be good. He needs to play his part, do what the play demands, do what the game requires of him. Limit mistakes. Klint is as much a part of the offences success as Sam. Most of Sam's throws need to be low degree of difficulty. And on occasion, and sometimes at critical moments, Sam will need to make a big time throw. That's what good QB's need to do.
More for the offence generally, but also Sam, I'd like to see faster starts. Script the first 15 plays or so, and make sure the offence is ready to run them efficiently. Get points early, and let the defence get a break. Play with the lead more. That leaves more of both the defences and offences call sheet available to the coordinators. Situations can help dictate success, and playing from behind is not conducive to winning games. The football Gods tend to find ways to screw you over when you leave things to the last seconds of a game.
Even if we start the season 10-2, people will be writing, 'Oh yeah, but wait until the big games come." And that's just fine. Write that. And then we'll see what happens when we play in those games. Hopefully Sam and the Seahawks answer that challenge when the time comes.
FWIW, I don’t think that *any* team goes 14-3 in spite of its QB. What we can’t know about Darnold is whether he is a one-season wonder. We’ll find out soon enough.
Admittedly, that would indeed be difficult. I'm trying to think of an example. Flacco wasn't carrying the Ravens Super Bowl team, but he wasn't a liability either. Peyton Manning in his last year with the Broncos, just seemed like he was doing just enough, but again, wasn't a liability......he was too smart for that.
Agreed, although for some reason Darnold gets repeatedly bashed for his last 2 games last season, and Goff gets none for his horrible last 1. Or at least, none that I've read.
Imagine, Seattle eeks out a week 1 win in spite of 3 turnovers from Sam Darnold, but he throws a game-winner. He gets to be over-hated for his fumbles/picks, overrated for his clutch, and keep his job/ paycheck. We need to go back to ‘21 heartattack ball where every game comes down to the wire and I’m worried about my choice to be a Seahawks fan as it relates to my health.
Point being he won’t live in a vacuum and it really comes down to his media presence if he is gonna get picked on. All I’ve picked up from him is from from the GetGot Pod and I don’t hate him but he seemed boring, which unless he is stacking W’s is gonna get him hated.
I expect a successful running game, and mostly successful play action passing off of a successful running game. I think we will have an equally effective offense that Minnesota had last year. Maybe better. Sam Darnold will be given some of the credit, but K9 or Charbs or both will be chewing up yards and forcing teams to game plan to stop the run, putting their secondary at risk. JSN is a future super star, and that future begins this year. There are a plethora of weapons for Sam to pick from, and he is more likely to use his check down than Geno, and in that I think he is wise and this is an area Sam is superior to Geno. Geno would wait too long for his outlet pass, while Sam seems to get it out on time more often.
I see no problem here. If Sam is carrying a dark side of self doubt that emerges at the exact worst time, we have a Coach who won't hesitate to relieve him. And don't even try to guilt him, Sam. That'll only get you gone. Ego has no place around dark sht. We will have a Run Team this year. Last I checked, a Run Team doesn't need a QB playing the Hero Card every play. Also, Sam does appear to process through his options at light speed compared to Geno, delivering accurately with authority. So he gets rattled and is shy of the Sack. Big deal, go to some run plays. If that's no good, we have a Coach who won't hesitate to let you get your wits back while Lock gets some Game Time. Last I saw, Drew is perty damn good at relieving. It's not about embarrassment, it's about WINNING today's Game. Next week, we begin again. If, and I mean IF, this doubt issue exists, he has 70 friends who happen to be college All Star athletes. That's a perty good support group. I'm perty sure they don't do Kumbaya group hugs or Dr. Phil sessions. Sometimes, it is best to simply add more beer and laugh it off. No problemo. Mental Coaches, my ass.
Looks to me like MM agrees JS did a good job recruiting proper young linemen. They simply need proper Coaching, especially Bradford. Abe needs to stay healthy long enough to set ATTITUDE among these huge young guys. Once they find their way, we will have our Run Game. I liked MM gave the Support Group time to work as a unit up in Green Bay. The only thing better than having a strong O-Line is to have TWO of them!
If the Seahawks fail, which I take to mean winning fewer than the 8.5 games Vegas gives them, it seems likely to be (in order) the following:
(1) Injuries
(2) The OL isn't what we think/hope it is.
(3) The league has figured out MM's defense (which it will) and he hasn't time to recalibrate.
(4) The receivers can't get open.
(5) Darnold plays like Sam Howell.
(6) Our RBs aren't as good (in this offense) as we think they should be.
I'm not entirely sold on that order, but 1 and 5 are where I think they belong.
At his WORST Darnold is still a better QB than half the league has on the field. I've been struggling in the comments here to articulate how frustrating it is to be told, over and over again, that only a player of Patrick Mahomes' gifts can win the Super Bowl. It's not true, and it's not sustainable. I believe in the system they're putting in place. I leave room for it not to work well this season, or, more likely, the first half of this season. I can live with that. Darnold is in his prime. I will be shocked if he's the problem. I won't be shocked if people say he's the problem...
I’m just not worried if Darnold is over- rated or over-hated. I’ve seen him play one series in this offense. It looked really good, but small sample size and all.
We have an offensive scheme that should not result in Darnold continually being in 3rd and long, always operating out of the shotgun. Scheme alone gives him a better chance than Geno had here last year.
I’m moderately bullish on Darnold this season but hugely bullish on the Seahawks overall.
There are too many folks and factors that can result in a great, or just adequate, season for Sam...the butterfly effect right? I think three of the biggest butterflys in the room (ok, I'm in a 12 step program for metaphors) are Kubiak, Lucus and Zabel. Sam's success, and that of the scheme and team, is tightly welded to those big guys in front. If we make the playoffs, Sam needs to remember the O-line at Christmas time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Just give me three out of four and we'll be OK. The other teams all have injury concerns and personal successes and failures to work with, too. The Seahawks just have to overmatch the week's opponent, win on Sunday, and move on to the next week.
I think Sam Darnold is perfect for the Seahawks. I think KK preferred Darnold to Geno. I think KK believes Darnold will be able to operate at a high level in his system. I think the fact that they released MVS despite a Cap hit means the receivers they have are better than we think. Yes, Kupp has been out with injuries in each of his last three seasons, but he is 100% healthy now. JSN looks awesome and no longer has to play second fiddle. Both excel at route running and getting open. Horton is going to surprise people who keep thinking of him as a 5th round pick. If he only duplicated his sophomore season in his last year at college, he would have been a day 2 pick. He will be a top 5 roookie receiver this year. Barner won 75% of contested catches last year. Arroyo will be a great #2 TE. Bobo will thrive in this system. Ouzts will have 400+ yards receiving. Both K9 and Charbs are outstanding RB receivers. Seahawks 31 49ers 13 in 7 days. (I left D Young and Cody White off, but yeah, as WR5 and WR6 they are just fine)
It widely said that Horton beat out MVS, but from what I heard, not only Horton, but Young and White also beat out MVS, especially in the physicality of their play. So far as I can tell, every single receiver on this team has hands rated 8, 9, and 10 (both Kupp and JSN) while MVS has at best 5 on that scale.
I think the key to the MVS cut was Horton winning WR3. Once MVS was competing for WR4, 5 or 6, he was competing against three players who were very big contributors on special teams. MVS was/is basically a nonentity on special teams. I think he has something he could offer as a receiver, especially his deep ball threat, but given how little he would see the field given how much 12 and 21 or 22 packages KK uses, his ability to be effective was greatly reduced vs the special team receivers. Then you have the fact that those three receivers are also much better as blockers than MVS for the run game support. At least that’s how I see it. In hindsight, people say signing MVS was a JS mistake, but I don’t agree. At the time we signed him, after JSN, Bobo was WR2. We did not know we would be able to draft Horton or sign Kupp (who appears fully healthy) who would leapfrog MVS for WR2 and 3.
Perhaps, but I don’t think that considers all the factors going into signing MVS. MVS played for Kubiak in 2024. Kubiak knew exactly what they would be getting by signing MVS. Sure there were cheaper players, but the lack of familiarity with those, and the marginal cap savings given the very large amount of cap space the Seahawks had made MVS a better choice for Kubiak. That’s my take anyway. I’ve been wrong before and I will be again, so there’s that as well. But I believe MVS was not a mistake at the time when Bobo was the Seahawks WR2.
I agree and believe that MM and JS were very deliberate in picking KK. I also agree that KK wanted Darnold from the get go as a “great” fit for his system, picking Zabel was another system fit. I’m expecting 2024 Saints like scoring in September!
I think he works well with the scheme Kubiak is trying to run. Handoff, short pass, occasional deep ball to keep the defense honest. Simple plan with detailed execution.
I keep telling myself that Mike McDonald grew up in a system that won Super Bowls with Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco as QBs. It makes me feel hopeful.
I think Sam might flourish in this scheme. He's more athletic than he gets credit for. He can ball. If the system highlights his strengths and keeps things simple, we're in for a great ride. If he's regularly running for his life on third and long, good luck...but that's anyone. Sam is fine, we're in good hands.
Geno cycled through his targets too slowly for the time he was given on each play. Sam does it faster. He will have 3 and 4 target outlets on every play with even more time. He's been timing things with his feet moving 3 steps, 4 steps, 5, etc. getting deeper down field as it passes. Kupp is a Master at finding where to be at what time when chaos erupts. Hope he stays healthy!
Ever the contrarian, I just can't get interested in whether Sam is over-rated or over-hated. That's 100% out of his and our control. People will say and write what people will say and write, and whether that is fair or accurate is immaterial. Some of it might be, most of likely won't be. I just can't get worked up about it.
I only care about wins. If the Team has success, and it's not despite Sam, then I'll be good. He needs to play his part, do what the play demands, do what the game requires of him. Limit mistakes. Klint is as much a part of the offences success as Sam. Most of Sam's throws need to be low degree of difficulty. And on occasion, and sometimes at critical moments, Sam will need to make a big time throw. That's what good QB's need to do.
More for the offence generally, but also Sam, I'd like to see faster starts. Script the first 15 plays or so, and make sure the offence is ready to run them efficiently. Get points early, and let the defence get a break. Play with the lead more. That leaves more of both the defences and offences call sheet available to the coordinators. Situations can help dictate success, and playing from behind is not conducive to winning games. The football Gods tend to find ways to screw you over when you leave things to the last seconds of a game.
Even if we start the season 10-2, people will be writing, 'Oh yeah, but wait until the big games come." And that's just fine. Write that. And then we'll see what happens when we play in those games. Hopefully Sam and the Seahawks answer that challenge when the time comes.
FWIW, I don’t think that *any* team goes 14-3 in spite of its QB. What we can’t know about Darnold is whether he is a one-season wonder. We’ll find out soon enough.
Admittedly, that would indeed be difficult. I'm trying to think of an example. Flacco wasn't carrying the Ravens Super Bowl team, but he wasn't a liability either. Peyton Manning in his last year with the Broncos, just seemed like he was doing just enough, but again, wasn't a liability......he was too smart for that.
As apostate as it may be in these parts, I don’t see how Jared Goff doesn’t deserve at least some credit for Lions’ success.
Agreed, although for some reason Darnold gets repeatedly bashed for his last 2 games last season, and Goff gets none for his horrible last 1. Or at least, none that I've read.
Imagine, Seattle eeks out a week 1 win in spite of 3 turnovers from Sam Darnold, but he throws a game-winner. He gets to be over-hated for his fumbles/picks, overrated for his clutch, and keep his job/ paycheck. We need to go back to ‘21 heartattack ball where every game comes down to the wire and I’m worried about my choice to be a Seahawks fan as it relates to my health.
Point being he won’t live in a vacuum and it really comes down to his media presence if he is gonna get picked on. All I’ve picked up from him is from from the GetGot Pod and I don’t hate him but he seemed boring, which unless he is stacking W’s is gonna get him hated.
If the hawks offense looks anything like that Saints offense weeks 1-2 last year, I'll take it.
New All 22 video up. Preview of the game. On the long side, 50 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0LrpCRRZjc
If Sam is as good as Geno was it's a win for the team. Anything above that is gravy.
He’s better with a higher ceiling.
I expect a successful running game, and mostly successful play action passing off of a successful running game. I think we will have an equally effective offense that Minnesota had last year. Maybe better. Sam Darnold will be given some of the credit, but K9 or Charbs or both will be chewing up yards and forcing teams to game plan to stop the run, putting their secondary at risk. JSN is a future super star, and that future begins this year. There are a plethora of weapons for Sam to pick from, and he is more likely to use his check down than Geno, and in that I think he is wise and this is an area Sam is superior to Geno. Geno would wait too long for his outlet pass, while Sam seems to get it out on time more often.
The futures so bright I gotta wear shades.
Maybe Seaside Jay can make some more that you could possibly win.
I see no problem here. If Sam is carrying a dark side of self doubt that emerges at the exact worst time, we have a Coach who won't hesitate to relieve him. And don't even try to guilt him, Sam. That'll only get you gone. Ego has no place around dark sht. We will have a Run Team this year. Last I checked, a Run Team doesn't need a QB playing the Hero Card every play. Also, Sam does appear to process through his options at light speed compared to Geno, delivering accurately with authority. So he gets rattled and is shy of the Sack. Big deal, go to some run plays. If that's no good, we have a Coach who won't hesitate to let you get your wits back while Lock gets some Game Time. Last I saw, Drew is perty damn good at relieving. It's not about embarrassment, it's about WINNING today's Game. Next week, we begin again. If, and I mean IF, this doubt issue exists, he has 70 friends who happen to be college All Star athletes. That's a perty good support group. I'm perty sure they don't do Kumbaya group hugs or Dr. Phil sessions. Sometimes, it is best to simply add more beer and laugh it off. No problemo. Mental Coaches, my ass.
Last I checked, a Run Team doesn't need a QB playing the Hero Card every play...
Bingo! That's what I'm thinking too. Keep It Simple Sam..KISS the Lombardi if you do!
Looks to me like MM agrees JS did a good job recruiting proper young linemen. They simply need proper Coaching, especially Bradford. Abe needs to stay healthy long enough to set ATTITUDE among these huge young guys. Once they find their way, we will have our Run Game. I liked MM gave the Support Group time to work as a unit up in Green Bay. The only thing better than having a strong O-Line is to have TWO of them!
Sometimes I read something that is just profound. Absolutely PROFOUND!
Like this: “Sometimes, it is best to simply add more beer and laugh it off.”
This is a statement to live by!
If the Seahawks fail, which I take to mean winning fewer than the 8.5 games Vegas gives them, it seems likely to be (in order) the following:
(1) Injuries
(2) The OL isn't what we think/hope it is.
(3) The league has figured out MM's defense (which it will) and he hasn't time to recalibrate.
(4) The receivers can't get open.
(5) Darnold plays like Sam Howell.
(6) Our RBs aren't as good (in this offense) as we think they should be.
I'm not entirely sold on that order, but 1 and 5 are where I think they belong.
At his WORST Darnold is still a better QB than half the league has on the field. I've been struggling in the comments here to articulate how frustrating it is to be told, over and over again, that only a player of Patrick Mahomes' gifts can win the Super Bowl. It's not true, and it's not sustainable. I believe in the system they're putting in place. I leave room for it not to work well this season, or, more likely, the first half of this season. I can live with that. Darnold is in his prime. I will be shocked if he's the problem. I won't be shocked if people say he's the problem...
Well said.. great comments.
Miss the playoffs - overrated.
Win one or two playoff games - overhated.
I’m just not worried if Darnold is over- rated or over-hated. I’ve seen him play one series in this offense. It looked really good, but small sample size and all.
We have an offensive scheme that should not result in Darnold continually being in 3rd and long, always operating out of the shotgun. Scheme alone gives him a better chance than Geno had here last year.
I’m moderately bullish on Darnold this season but hugely bullish on the Seahawks overall.
Go Hawks!!!
There are too many folks and factors that can result in a great, or just adequate, season for Sam...the butterfly effect right? I think three of the biggest butterflys in the room (ok, I'm in a 12 step program for metaphors) are Kubiak, Lucus and Zabel. Sam's success, and that of the scheme and team, is tightly welded to those big guys in front. If we make the playoffs, Sam needs to remember the O-line at Christmas time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Just give me three out of four and we'll be OK. The other teams all have injury concerns and personal successes and failures to work with, too. The Seahawks just have to overmatch the week's opponent, win on Sunday, and move on to the next week.
Yep, one bite at a time.
I think Sam Darnold is perfect for the Seahawks. I think KK preferred Darnold to Geno. I think KK believes Darnold will be able to operate at a high level in his system. I think the fact that they released MVS despite a Cap hit means the receivers they have are better than we think. Yes, Kupp has been out with injuries in each of his last three seasons, but he is 100% healthy now. JSN looks awesome and no longer has to play second fiddle. Both excel at route running and getting open. Horton is going to surprise people who keep thinking of him as a 5th round pick. If he only duplicated his sophomore season in his last year at college, he would have been a day 2 pick. He will be a top 5 roookie receiver this year. Barner won 75% of contested catches last year. Arroyo will be a great #2 TE. Bobo will thrive in this system. Ouzts will have 400+ yards receiving. Both K9 and Charbs are outstanding RB receivers. Seahawks 31 49ers 13 in 7 days. (I left D Young and Cody White off, but yeah, as WR5 and WR6 they are just fine)
It widely said that Horton beat out MVS, but from what I heard, not only Horton, but Young and White also beat out MVS, especially in the physicality of their play. So far as I can tell, every single receiver on this team has hands rated 8, 9, and 10 (both Kupp and JSN) while MVS has at best 5 on that scale.
I think the key to the MVS cut was Horton winning WR3. Once MVS was competing for WR4, 5 or 6, he was competing against three players who were very big contributors on special teams. MVS was/is basically a nonentity on special teams. I think he has something he could offer as a receiver, especially his deep ball threat, but given how little he would see the field given how much 12 and 21 or 22 packages KK uses, his ability to be effective was greatly reduced vs the special team receivers. Then you have the fact that those three receivers are also much better as blockers than MVS for the run game support. At least that’s how I see it. In hindsight, people say signing MVS was a JS mistake, but I don’t agree. At the time we signed him, after JSN, Bobo was WR2. We did not know we would be able to draft Horton or sign Kupp (who appears fully healthy) who would leapfrog MVS for WR2 and 3.
SSJ has pointed out that the MVS signing wasn't the bad part; it's just that an equal player could have been signed for less money.
Perhaps, but I don’t think that considers all the factors going into signing MVS. MVS played for Kubiak in 2024. Kubiak knew exactly what they would be getting by signing MVS. Sure there were cheaper players, but the lack of familiarity with those, and the marginal cap savings given the very large amount of cap space the Seahawks had made MVS a better choice for Kubiak. That’s my take anyway. I’ve been wrong before and I will be again, so there’s that as well. But I believe MVS was not a mistake at the time when Bobo was the Seahawks WR2.
This, MVS was an insurance policy. If you pay for insurance and end up not needing it, it doesn’t mean it was a bad idea to buy insurance.
I agree completely, I’m making a point it was a good thing to do at the time they signed him.
I agree and believe that MM and JS were very deliberate in picking KK. I also agree that KK wanted Darnold from the get go as a “great” fit for his system, picking Zabel was another system fit. I’m expecting 2024 Saints like scoring in September!
I think I'll make the adjustment pretty quickly if he plays clean and picks up a W week 1
I think he works well with the scheme Kubiak is trying to run. Handoff, short pass, occasional deep ball to keep the defense honest. Simple plan with detailed execution.
Darnold should be just fine.