Great rundown! Makes me think that (much like Henry Ford), Dickson didn’t “invent” the Aussie punter in American football, but he did perfect and popularize it.
Should also be noted that he is probably only the second most celebrated Aussie athlete in Seattle sports history, behind Lauren Jackson with her two WNBA rings, 3 league MVPs, and a pile of Olympic and World Cup hoops medals.
When he was drafted in round 5, many were angry. I wasn't. Getting a 10+ year starter in round 5 is insane value. Great punters have 15 to 20 year careers.
Oh, a thing about aussies and kicking - especially if you’re talking about the States that are what we call Footy States, meaning the main game there is Australian Rules Football (not rugby) - pretty much the first thing we learn to do with a ball is kick (punt) it from birth. It’s a similar shape to the US ball too - a bit rounder. And if you’ve ever watched a game, you’ll notice it’s a very important part that requires much skill both for accuracy and distance (short and long). And that’s when you’re being tackled or bumped or just generally crunched. So it’s no surprise that we’re starting to dominate the NFL. You just took 100 years or so to realise we existed.
To be honest, I think the skill level in Australian football as far as kicking goes has decreased. All players used to be able to kick with both feet. These days most can only use one side of their body (and not that well at times). They’re taught differently (and incorrectly IMO) these days. The game has changed a lot over my lifetime and not always for the better. Anyway, that’s my rant on the state of Aussie Rules and its kicking.
>>...first thing we learn to do with a ball is kick (punt) it from birth.<< That's what I mean about having muscle groups already developed early among Aussie boys. "Getting interested" in kicking at 16+ years old puts American kids in the backseat. Not just muscles but cartilage and joint development will make them structurally advanced.
I wonder what kickers do to avoid hip imbalances? They only ever kick with one leg, so they must do something with the other side to keep things aligned. Your hips can get misaligned pretty easily if one side gets stronger than the other. There must be a trick to it.
Finally, an article about Dickson! A key cog in the Seahawks machinery for years. And an important one. Has there been any other that’s been so consistent?
Off on a tangent guys, I think we may see JS sign Jaire Alexander. I don't see Riq Wollen having a place on a Mike McDonald team. Last year it looked like he was tempering his play, causing MM to sit him for a bit. He strikes me as a gun-for-hire, telling MM if he wants a Shutdown Corner, then pay him to be one.
Tangents are welcome on a punter thread. Kidding Mr. Dickson. Luv ya.
Woolen is an outstanding question for me. Mike MacDonald talks about non-negotiables and playing physical all the time. I would think a non-negotiable would be excellent tackling if you're a defensive player. If Woolen doesn't play the run the way a CB needs to play the run, I can see why they would not sign him long term to big money. He's really good in coverage when he's focused. Run support is not consistently good, and teams will attack his side of the field because of it. And because Spoon is on the other side. Riq will be a difficult decision. He's got the size, skill and speed to be great. But he also needs the 'want-to' as far as run support. And if he's not consistently focused while making 5th round pick money, what's he going to be like after he gets paid?
Same I think for Fant. If blocking DE's and LB's is a non-negotiable for our TE's, is there a place on the team for someone who doesn't do it very well? Of course, it's possible that once it's known to Mr Fant that learning to be a solid blocker is a non-negotiable for a Seahawk TE, maybe he becomes good at it. He's big enough. Sometimes all you need to do is make it clear to someone where the bar is.
What value Woolen or Fant have to other teams would be interesting to know. Woolen I expect would be worth much more, given the Pro-Bowl as a rookie. But he also has tremendous potential, so I'd hate to see him go somewhere else and be absolutely great. Hopefully he has a tremendous year for us this year, and then JS will have a hard decision to make. I'd pay Spoon before I paid Woolen though, and you can't pay everyone.
If blocking DEs and LBs is a non-negotiable for our TEs, then I think we wouldn't have drafted Arroyo, especially that early. He may be better than Fant at blocking, but not by much. In a perfect world we'd like to have TEs being perfectly complete players who block, catch, and run exceptionally. I just don't think it rises to the level of getting rid of a TE who isn't a good blocker until you have a room full of guys who are and can catch just as well.
I like tangents and cotangents. I originally thought we would try and sign Wollen, but Brady Henderson pegged his guess at that likelihood at 1 out of 10. I’m sure he doesn’t have specifics, but he spends as much time around the facility and talking to people affiliated with the team as just about anyone. He might have picked up on some things that make it seem as if he is not a MM kind of player. There’s also the need to extend Spoon a year from now, and paying both Wollen and Spoon might not be in the cards. I think there’s no doubt Spoon is a MM kind of player. So, sign Alexander? I think they would want to know about his physical health first. He’s only played in 7 games each of the last two seasons.
No doubt a negotiation master class. My bet is the JS/MM teamwork is up for it. Let's realize an easy argument can be made that we'll be a solid Super Bowl contender going forward from here. I think that appeal is an essential component MM looks for in all his guys.
Whew. That was close. (Danno told me to do it...) No worries, Danno. I'm joking around.
I like placing a bet that will take all season to unfold. Last year, I bet they'd make the playoffs. It is very rare a 10-7 team doesn't make it. The year before was riskier: that the Lions would make the Superbowl. Figgerd I'd sell the bet before the Game. And before that I never gambled.
I do believe Aussie kids start working on kicking muscle groups early by playing Rugby. Unlike soccer, you can use your hands in drop-kick fashion. Placement and distance are also varied, making it an ideal program for our punting. My bet is the Aussie guys will add kickoff skills, incorporating the two into one position, thus expanding the general roster. This is the play that sold me on Dickson (It was as Rugby as it gets):
I've not heard of Gaelic football. Fun and feisty sort of people. I can see their young men drawn to physical activities as boys, giving rise to Elders organizing games around rules meant to steer towards civility. It'll be fun to look into the origins of Football. How it came about and was so commonly accepted.
To paraphrase Rodney Dangerfield: "Went to an Irish boxing match and a rugby game broke out!" I see they use a soccer ball? I thought they were more like our footballs. Is that one of the differences from the Aussie version?
The Gaelic football is round like a soccer ball, but smaller and heavier. So that’s a clear difference from the Australian game. Wind is a huge factor because the downfield kicks are very high. You can see them getting held up in a strong wind. It’s a good game—amateur, so the careers are brief. The players are household names in their county. Hey, I gotta love any game where the players have names like Donnacha McHugh, Jack Carney, Aidan O’Shea, and Davitt Neary!
I always wondered why punters and kickers don't morph into one player. I know the mechanics are different, but its not like they do a lot of different things in practice. Couldn't one of them work on the other skill and free up a position for a needed back-up?
Any of you that know the difficulties of playing the kicker/punter position, please enlighten me to why you need one of each and not have a combo guy that can do both well instead of two guys that do one thing great?
It was incredibly common in the CFL in 70's, 80's into the 90's. Most were Canadian and it helped with the US/ Canadian Ratio that is required. They also have smaller rosters, so it helps there too.
There used to be and of course they are temp in game backups but the specialization that has happened in football leads to them not merging. Size. Skills. Different muscle groups used as Scott points out. Amazing how just a small difference leads to a net significant decline. Remember when Dickson got hurt last year. They decided they would rather go for it on fourth down than let someone else punt.
I think it has to do with the muscle groups used, like you say different mechanics. If by now someone hasn't figured out that they could open a spot on the roster by condensing kickers into one...but maybe someday there will be someone that is proficient in both.
Mucho Gracias many thanx, Dale. I did not know that. It simply looks like rugby to me. After High School, my former butt kickn football buddies went all-in on this new rugby game. They hounded me into trying out, but I had to tell them my job required a ton of walking/running. It's a furiously physical game with no pad protections. Anybody shy on bar fights had to simply play a scrum once to cure them of any fears. A good healthy brawl was the best damn psychiatrist a man needed and yeah, I'm a dinosaur.
Yes, they’re very different games. Rugby essentially goes in one direction with not much kicking. Aussie Rules goes in all directions with lots of kicking.
Last year for me our MVP's were one of Williams, Love, Dickson, JSN, E Jones and Cross. And if you were to push me, prob between Williams and Dickson. There's nothing like knowing your punter is going to pin the other guys back deep, EVERY time. Sometimes it felt like he was the only All-Pro on the field.
Didn’t have Cross. But agree about Big Cat and Dickson. But clearly was Williams with most improved Coby at FS. Now my preference is we see so little of Dickson!
I can't believe we pay so much for our punter!?! That just seems like a lot of cash for someone that...well...punts. I get it, it's the 'field position' game within the game, but it feels like a large amount of resources are being used on...well...a punter. Especially when framed 'will now make similar to Murphy and Zabel etc'...that seems out of whack. Just my opinion.
Great rundown! Makes me think that (much like Henry Ford), Dickson didn’t “invent” the Aussie punter in American football, but he did perfect and popularize it.
Should also be noted that he is probably only the second most celebrated Aussie athlete in Seattle sports history, behind Lauren Jackson with her two WNBA rings, 3 league MVPs, and a pile of Olympic and World Cup hoops medals.
"months before I started a non-negotiable daily habit of being alive."
I howled, this really brightened up my morning
When he was drafted in round 5, many were angry. I wasn't. Getting a 10+ year starter in round 5 is insane value. Great punters have 15 to 20 year careers.
Oh, a thing about aussies and kicking - especially if you’re talking about the States that are what we call Footy States, meaning the main game there is Australian Rules Football (not rugby) - pretty much the first thing we learn to do with a ball is kick (punt) it from birth. It’s a similar shape to the US ball too - a bit rounder. And if you’ve ever watched a game, you’ll notice it’s a very important part that requires much skill both for accuracy and distance (short and long). And that’s when you’re being tackled or bumped or just generally crunched. So it’s no surprise that we’re starting to dominate the NFL. You just took 100 years or so to realise we existed.
To be honest, I think the skill level in Australian football as far as kicking goes has decreased. All players used to be able to kick with both feet. These days most can only use one side of their body (and not that well at times). They’re taught differently (and incorrectly IMO) these days. The game has changed a lot over my lifetime and not always for the better. Anyway, that’s my rant on the state of Aussie Rules and its kicking.
>>...first thing we learn to do with a ball is kick (punt) it from birth.<< That's what I mean about having muscle groups already developed early among Aussie boys. "Getting interested" in kicking at 16+ years old puts American kids in the backseat. Not just muscles but cartilage and joint development will make them structurally advanced.
... so if'n Ya have a wee-one 'n let him or her kick, kick, kick a soft football with both legs ...
I wonder what kickers do to avoid hip imbalances? They only ever kick with one leg, so they must do something with the other side to keep things aligned. Your hips can get misaligned pretty easily if one side gets stronger than the other. There must be a trick to it.
Finally, an article about Dickson! A key cog in the Seahawks machinery for years. And an important one. Has there been any other that’s been so consistent?
Aussie, Aussie, Aussie!
Break out the air guitars.
According to Pro Football Reference, Dickson has been blocked once in his career, as a rookie. Then there’s this:
https://youtu.be/4UjFAR9FABU?si=xAuCKrIF2YqByfj1
68 yard drop kick has to be a record.
And shrimp on the barbie.
Love the Croc Dundee ref!, had me lolling, as they say.
The Original was one hell of a movie!
Just re-watched it last night.
"Now that's a Noif!"
Nothing against your black widow spider, but our spiders can kill you by just looking at you.
Off on a tangent guys, I think we may see JS sign Jaire Alexander. I don't see Riq Wollen having a place on a Mike McDonald team. Last year it looked like he was tempering his play, causing MM to sit him for a bit. He strikes me as a gun-for-hire, telling MM if he wants a Shutdown Corner, then pay him to be one.
Tangents are welcome on a punter thread. Kidding Mr. Dickson. Luv ya.
Woolen is an outstanding question for me. Mike MacDonald talks about non-negotiables and playing physical all the time. I would think a non-negotiable would be excellent tackling if you're a defensive player. If Woolen doesn't play the run the way a CB needs to play the run, I can see why they would not sign him long term to big money. He's really good in coverage when he's focused. Run support is not consistently good, and teams will attack his side of the field because of it. And because Spoon is on the other side. Riq will be a difficult decision. He's got the size, skill and speed to be great. But he also needs the 'want-to' as far as run support. And if he's not consistently focused while making 5th round pick money, what's he going to be like after he gets paid?
Same I think for Fant. If blocking DE's and LB's is a non-negotiable for our TE's, is there a place on the team for someone who doesn't do it very well? Of course, it's possible that once it's known to Mr Fant that learning to be a solid blocker is a non-negotiable for a Seahawk TE, maybe he becomes good at it. He's big enough. Sometimes all you need to do is make it clear to someone where the bar is.
What value Woolen or Fant have to other teams would be interesting to know. Woolen I expect would be worth much more, given the Pro-Bowl as a rookie. But he also has tremendous potential, so I'd hate to see him go somewhere else and be absolutely great. Hopefully he has a tremendous year for us this year, and then JS will have a hard decision to make. I'd pay Spoon before I paid Woolen though, and you can't pay everyone.
If blocking DEs and LBs is a non-negotiable for our TEs, then I think we wouldn't have drafted Arroyo, especially that early. He may be better than Fant at blocking, but not by much. In a perfect world we'd like to have TEs being perfectly complete players who block, catch, and run exceptionally. I just don't think it rises to the level of getting rid of a TE who isn't a good blocker until you have a room full of guys who are and can catch just as well.
I like tangents and cotangents. I originally thought we would try and sign Wollen, but Brady Henderson pegged his guess at that likelihood at 1 out of 10. I’m sure he doesn’t have specifics, but he spends as much time around the facility and talking to people affiliated with the team as just about anyone. He might have picked up on some things that make it seem as if he is not a MM kind of player. There’s also the need to extend Spoon a year from now, and paying both Wollen and Spoon might not be in the cards. I think there’s no doubt Spoon is a MM kind of player. So, sign Alexander? I think they would want to know about his physical health first. He’s only played in 7 games each of the last two seasons.
Technically, he spells his name Woolen, not Wollen.
I should know that by now.
No doubt a negotiation master class. My bet is the JS/MM teamwork is up for it. Let's realize an easy argument can be made that we'll be a solid Super Bowl contender going forward from here. I think that appeal is an essential component MM looks for in all his guys.
I think if we stay healthy at key positions, we could be in the NFC championship game this year.
That's it- I'm betting again this year. Damn.
I’m no expert, don’t listen to me for any financial advice. Save your money.
Whew. That was close. (Danno told me to do it...) No worries, Danno. I'm joking around.
I like placing a bet that will take all season to unfold. Last year, I bet they'd make the playoffs. It is very rare a 10-7 team doesn't make it. The year before was riskier: that the Lions would make the Superbowl. Figgerd I'd sell the bet before the Game. And before that I never gambled.
I do believe Aussie kids start working on kicking muscle groups early by playing Rugby. Unlike soccer, you can use your hands in drop-kick fashion. Placement and distance are also varied, making it an ideal program for our punting. My bet is the Aussie guys will add kickoff skills, incorporating the two into one position, thus expanding the general roster. This is the play that sold me on Dickson (It was as Rugby as it gets):
https://www.seahawks.com/news/michael-dickson-turns-blocked-punt-into-remarkable-play-in-seahawks-loss-to-rams
It’s closest relative is Gaelic football, no?
I've not heard of Gaelic football. Fun and feisty sort of people. I can see their young men drawn to physical activities as boys, giving rise to Elders organizing games around rules meant to steer towards civility. It'll be fun to look into the origins of Football. How it came about and was so commonly accepted.
Naturally, I’m a County Mayo fan (last All Ireland in 1951, 11 straight finals defeats since).
https://youtu.be/7jNXTSy1V7Q?si=9tLJkC4uzpsyakV0
To paraphrase Rodney Dangerfield: "Went to an Irish boxing match and a rugby game broke out!" I see they use a soccer ball? I thought they were more like our footballs. Is that one of the differences from the Aussie version?
The Gaelic football is round like a soccer ball, but smaller and heavier. So that’s a clear difference from the Australian game. Wind is a huge factor because the downfield kicks are very high. You can see them getting held up in a strong wind. It’s a good game—amateur, so the careers are brief. The players are household names in their county. Hey, I gotta love any game where the players have names like Donnacha McHugh, Jack Carney, Aidan O’Shea, and Davitt Neary!
Needless to say, it's a big deal in Ireland!
I always wondered why punters and kickers don't morph into one player. I know the mechanics are different, but its not like they do a lot of different things in practice. Couldn't one of them work on the other skill and free up a position for a needed back-up?
Any of you that know the difficulties of playing the kicker/punter position, please enlighten me to why you need one of each and not have a combo guy that can do both well instead of two guys that do one thing great?
It was incredibly common in the CFL in 70's, 80's into the 90's. Most were Canadian and it helped with the US/ Canadian Ratio that is required. They also have smaller rosters, so it helps there too.
There used to be and of course they are temp in game backups but the specialization that has happened in football leads to them not merging. Size. Skills. Different muscle groups used as Scott points out. Amazing how just a small difference leads to a net significant decline. Remember when Dickson got hurt last year. They decided they would rather go for it on fourth down than let someone else punt.
I think it has to do with the muscle groups used, like you say different mechanics. If by now someone hasn't figured out that they could open a spot on the roster by condensing kickers into one...but maybe someday there will be someone that is proficient in both.
Someone good at both but great at neither? 60+ yard field goal kickers can relieve a lot of stress on offenses.
You’re almost right JIMMY. It’s Australian Rules Football, not rugby. Most just call it AFL after the highest league (Australian Football League).
Mucho Gracias many thanx, Dale. I did not know that. It simply looks like rugby to me. After High School, my former butt kickn football buddies went all-in on this new rugby game. They hounded me into trying out, but I had to tell them my job required a ton of walking/running. It's a furiously physical game with no pad protections. Anybody shy on bar fights had to simply play a scrum once to cure them of any fears. A good healthy brawl was the best damn psychiatrist a man needed and yeah, I'm a dinosaur.
Yes, they’re very different games. Rugby essentially goes in one direction with not much kicking. Aussie Rules goes in all directions with lots of kicking.
Last year for me our MVP's were one of Williams, Love, Dickson, JSN, E Jones and Cross. And if you were to push me, prob between Williams and Dickson. There's nothing like knowing your punter is going to pin the other guys back deep, EVERY time. Sometimes it felt like he was the only All-Pro on the field.
Williams was, for me, the MVP by a large margin
Didn’t have Cross. But agree about Big Cat and Dickson. But clearly was Williams with most improved Coby at FS. Now my preference is we see so little of Dickson!
I can't believe we pay so much for our punter!?! That just seems like a lot of cash for someone that...well...punts. I get it, it's the 'field position' game within the game, but it feels like a large amount of resources are being used on...well...a punter. Especially when framed 'will now make similar to Murphy and Zabel etc'...that seems out of whack. Just my opinion.
His value will be less if we finally convert on third downs and have fewer 3 and outs.
Sounds like Punter Derangement Syndrome.
Yeah, he is a wildly popular player but nevertheless a punter. Would like to see him go above and beyond this year.
" I started a non-negotiable daily habit of being alive." NOICE !
... Believe that Seaside JAY 'n CLARK approve of this message..
She said that was her favorite line!